Getting ready for the next coup

After a week rife with rumours of a military coup, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej on Sunday charged that forces aligned against his government are trying to goad the army into seizing power again. - http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/t ... ?id=127338 (http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=127338)
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/topboo ... 08/entry-1 (http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/topboot/2008/04/08/entry-1)

Only a matter of time till the next one.

I am only guessing of course. But it seems to me that IF a coup comes soon, it may not be as peaceful as the last one. Food shortages and a wonderful King who is having health problems, can lead to great problems.

Food shortages?

Food shortages?

There is a great deal of rice hoarding going on in Thailand right now.

[fedssocr]

A couple of weeks ago The Nation especially seemed to be advancing the notion that the proposed PPP/TRT rewrite of the constitution was a sort of defacto coup that would occur without military involvement. Who writes a constitution that allows amendments by majority vote of the legislature? That seems idiotic to me.

For sure there are rising tensions around the world between the food situation and the looming depression in the US which I suspect will spread elsewhere...not to mention all of the other problems out there.

Food shortages?

There is a great deal of rice hoarding going on in Thailand right now.

Perhaps, but there is nothing that could be described as a "food shortage". Talk about chicken little...

I agree, he's a total monkey. But he was elected democratically -- just like the other monkey (George Bush) -- which illustrates well the greatest shortcoming of democracy: the great unwashed masses are idiots.

As long as they cast their own vote, it's democratic in my book. How different is having the headman tell you who you should vote for, from having Oprah tell you who to vote for? Ultimately, it's only you in the voting booth. In any case, if you do any traveling outside of Bangkok whatsoever, you will find that Samak's party (and Thaksin's before it) is overwhelmingly -- and genuinely -- popular. It is not as if an unpopular group forced its way into power by stuffing the ballot boxes.

[quote="Singapore Sexpat":3bi46t02]Food shortages?

There is a great deal of rice hoarding going on in Thailand right now.

Perhaps, but there is nothing that could be described as a "food shortage". Talk about chicken little...[/quote:3bi46t02]Food

Shortages loom as wheat crop shrinks and prices rise by Jonathan Leake
THE world is only ten weeks away from running out of wheat supplies after stocks fell to their lowest levels for 50 years.

The crisis has pushed prices to an all-time high and could lead to further hikes in the price of bread, beer, biscuits and other basic foods.

It could also exacerbate serious food shortages in developing countries

I was surprised too about the talk of food shortages too. But it is being reported as a possibility in all major news papers. The problem is not that there will be no food but rather that the poor will be less able to pay the rising cost. This could lead to unrest if it comes to be.

I certainly am not the expert Singapore Sexpat is in all matters. But I feel since none of us know for sure, debate is interesting

Yes it is popular - but only because of the amount of money it pays out in various forms. Taksinomics would have eventually bancrupted the economy. And there is a huge difference between Oprah making a statement on US TV, and the huge local influence and power village headman has - and don't believe that there would be any privacy in a small rural village during election time.

As long as it is popular, I don't think we have to worry about why it's popular. Maybe the Democrats are popular in the US because they kick back more to the people in the form of social programs? Don't see how that's any different. What matters is that the people vote for whom they want for -- and that the people are too stupid to know what's good for them.

Thaksins spokesman denies in the nation hes planning a coup - so it must be true,

Samak talks about vomiting in a 777.

Priorities!

Thaksins spokesman denies in the nation hes planning a coup - so it must be true,

Samak talks about vomiting in a 777.

Priorities!

If a coup comes it will not be from Thaksin's side, I think. More like the old man again.

DELETED

Yes it is popular - but only because of the amount of money it pays out in various forms. Taksinomics would have eventually bancrupted the economy. And there is a huge difference between Oprah making a statement on US TV, and the huge local influence and power village headman has - and don't believe that there would be any privacy in a small rural village during election time.

As long as it is popular, I don't think we have to worry about why it's popular. Maybe the Democrats are popular in the US because they kick back more to the people in the form of social programs? Don't see how that's any different. What matters is that the people vote for whom they want for -- and that the people are too stupid to know what's good for them.

That's the whole point - they are not voting for who they want, but who they are told to vote for. The situation in Thailand and many other third world nations cannot be compared with the US or Europe. They are worlds apart in every way. There may be some corruption in US elections but nothing on the scale seen here.

ํYou seem to have missed my point.

The Thai people ARE voting who they want to. Just go anywhere in Thailand and ask around, everyone loves Thaksin and everyone loves Samak. Genuinely love them; no one is forcing them to.

Now, there was a point that they only like them because of populist policies. Well, yeah -- everyone in the world votes the same way. People are dumb (and self-centered) everywhere. Thaksin did not win the hearts of the rural masses by forcing them to vote for him (and his proxies), rather he did it by winning them over by appealing to what it is that is important to them (money).

The Democrat Party -- while favored by the educated elite -- is not looked on well by the rural masses because they are seen as a bunch of Oxford and Cambridge-educated stuffy noses who do not have the country people in their line of vision. Which, actually, they don't -- or they would make more of an effort to appeal to them.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this :)

At least help me understand what we're disagreeing on. Do you think that people actually don't like Thaksin and his cronies, but are being told to vote for him and therefore do so?

As I already said, people are being told who to vote for. Sorry - but I don't want to keep repeating myself :bom:

I get it that you think people are being "told" to vote in a particular way.

But the question is 1) whether they are doing as told, and 2) whether they are being "told" to vote for the party they support anyway. It only makes a difference if people are voting against their wishes, based on an order from a village headman or equivalent.

The people I talk to upcountry tell me that they vote for whomever they damned well please -- regardless of what their headman says and regardless of who puts money in their palm. On the other hand, they almost all tell me that they support TRT/PPP, which is I guess who they are being told to support in the first place.

Bottom line: the people voted overwhelmingly for PPP, and overwhelmingly support PPP. Democracy in action!

I agree, he's a total monkey. But he was elected democratically -- just like the other monkey (George Bush) -- which illustrates well the greatest shortcoming of democracy: the great unwashed masses are idiots.


At least, here in the UK nobody voted for our monkey to be Prime Minister - not even his party. What a Great guy. He increases taxes on the poor so that he can give a tax break to the rich. We haven't had that style of government since William arrived from Normandy.

He went to the States last week and nobody noticed. They were too busy cheering the Nazi in the frock.

I bet half of you can't even think what his name is... and that's no reflection on you.

Just go anywhere in Thailand and ask around, everyone loves Thaksin and everyone loves Samak. Genuinely love them; no one is forcing them to.For a "Singapore" Sexpat you certainly know a lot about the back blocks of Thailand, Laddie

Looks like I have sold up at the right time. More coup talk does nothing for the economy or country.

Any time is the right time where your departure is concerned!

[Khor tose]

I agree, he's a total monkey. But he was elected democratically -- just like the other monkey (George Bush) -- which illustrates well the greatest shortcoming of democracy: the great unwashed masses are idiots.

Three things:
1. Democracy does elect real morons at times-but it beats a monarchy or a family run, one party, government. Yes I know Singapore is doing great, but when leader #3 (son of leader #1) decides his son should be #4, and his son is an idiot, where do you go? How much freedom do gays have in your present system?
2. I have spent time in Chiang Mai, and I ask political questions of those who speak English. I agree with you that many educated people in the North, do like Thaksin. I'm did not run a poll, but I strongly suspect you are correct. They really did vote for his stand in. Maybe it is a case of you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
3. As someone born under the sign of the monkey, and an animal lover, I take umbrage at your slur on Monkeys. How dare you compare us with George Bush. :profileleft:

Just go anywhere in Thailand and ask around, everyone loves Thaksin and everyone loves Samak. Genuinely love them; no one is forcing them to.For a "Singapore" Sexpat you certainly know a lot about the back blocks of Thailand, Laddie

I know a bit. I come up to Thailand most weekends, and spend most holidays there. Anything to get out of SIN.

At least, here in the UK nobody voted for our monkey to be Prime Minister - not even his party. What a Great guy. He increases taxes on the poor so that he can give a tax break to the rich. We haven't had that style of government since William arrived from Normandy.

He went to the States last week and nobody noticed. They were too busy cheering the Nazi in the frock.

I bet half of you can't even think what his name is... and that's no reflection on you.


ermmmm - David Beckham?

Gordon Brown has increased taxes on just about everybody in the UK in the last 10 years.
Oddly enough, there's nothing much to show for it as providing services via taxation & state monopolies is an idea that's failed in the Soviet Bloc, Cuba & so on. Even China & Vietnam have seen the light.

In our sham democracy, the Conservatives get 60,000 more votes than Labour in England at the last general election, but the Conservatives won 92 seats less than Labour within England (Labour 285 to Conservative 193).
Then all the MPs from Scotland & Wales come down to vote on issues that don't affect Wales & Scotland, because they have their own parlaments.

We're hardly in a good position to knock Thai democracy with a record like that.

We're hardly in a good position to knock Thai democracy with a record like that.As I recall, all of the points you mention were introduced by popularly-elected governments. They were not imposed by an unelected House of Lords nor by Brenda Herself. There is no comparison to Thai "democracy"

[Khor tose]

I do not mind googling when I have to, but come on now. Please tell this yank who the hell "Brenda" is. Is that a derisive term for Gordon Brown, or a nickname for Catherine Margaret Ashton? I do not have a clue, and I feel I am well read

I do not mind googling when I have to, but come on now. Please tell this yank who the hell "Brenda" is.

http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/english/exhibits/jubilee/pics/currentportrait2.jpg

[Khor tose]

I do love learning new things. In America the Queen is regarded with near reverence. Even at the time of Diana death, the only bad things said about the Queen were reprints of British news stories in the American Press, or commentary on what the British press was saying about her. While news from Britain is often covered by the Eastern Press (New York Times, Boston Globe, etc.), we on the left coast (California, Oregon, Washington State) seldom see reprints of these articles.
I not only did not know about the nickname "Brenda", but I had not heard of "The Private Eye." Now I also know where the handle "Lunchtime O'Booze", came from. Next time I go to Britain, I need to spend less time traveling about, going to plays, doing the Galleries and visiting Museums, and more time getting to know these fascinating foreign people. What is really odd to me is that I do know many Brits, one of whom, wrote for the Guardian. Somehow this information never came up in our conversations. I have looked at the on-line version, and now I can see why it is not imported into the USA. http://www.private-eye.co.uk/index.php?
Definitely, a magazine for those who live, or spend a lot of time in Britain.

I have looked at the on-line version, and now I can see why it is not imported into the USA. http://www.private-eye.co.uk/index.php - Definitely, a magazine for those who live, or spend a lot of time in Britain.It is available in Bookazine in Thailand

[Marsilius]

But unfortunately - given that it is a magazine based on exposing scandal / spoofing the news of the day - the issue available in Thailand, being rarely (never?) the current one, loses thereby the crucial element of topicality.

But unfortunately - given that it is a magazine based on exposing scandal / spoofing the news of the day - the issue available in Thailand, being rarely (never?) the current one, loses thereby the crucial element of topicality.It never seems as out-of-date as all that - what sort of delays does your local Bookazine have?

This particular discussion merely highlights the idiocy of z209's assertion that somehow Thai "democracy" is superior to the UK model

[Marsilius]

The best I've ever found is the issue before the current one. Usually it's two issues - i.e. a month - old.

The best I've ever found is the issue before the current one. Usually it's two issues - i.e. a month - old.Hot damn! A month! Oh my god - the sky is falling, the sky is falling

[Marsilius]

But when many of their articles (especially in the second half - i.e. the humorous section) are spoofing events that happened in the past few days but are sufficiently trivial to have been forgotten in a month, that is a significant delay.

Newsagents place "Private Eye" in the "current affairs" section, after all.

Newsagents place "Private Eye" in the "current affairs" section, after all.They place American magazines such as Foreign Affairs there too, and that's only a monthly. What would you prefer - Men's Interest?

Weak or embattled governments in some of the world's poorest nations could be pushed to the brink of anarchy or beyond by the life-or-death pressures of scarce or expensive food.

Already, Haiti's government has been driven from office by violent protests over prices that are 50% to 100% higher than last year. Seven other countries тАФ Egypt, Cameroon, the Ivory Coast, Senegal, Burkina Faso, Indonesia and Madagascar тАФ have suffered food riots.

Global food prices have risen 73% since 2006, but the increase for certain products has been even more dramatic. Edible oils are up 144%; cereals, including wheat and rice, are up 129%; dairy products have doubled in price.

World Bank President Robert Zoellick says the developing world's higher food bill will erase the past seven years of progress in reducing poverty. And prices are expected to remain elevated at least through 2009
From USA today...today:

Democracy or not, if poor people become short of food, they will not care what kind of government they have.

"I know a bit. I come up to Thailand most weekends, and spend most holidays there. Anything to get out of SIN". You must be on a very well-paid job, Singapore Sexpat. Flying to Thailand "most weekends" would cost between $S300 and $S700 a week just for the airfares and taxes, depending what airline you take. I know, I live in Singapore too, and once a month is about what I can afford, and I think I'm very well paid.

Private eye has a circulation of around 200,000 an issue .
The UK population is around 60 million.
I would suggest that less than 1% of the population of the UK would know that Private Eye refers to the Queen as Brenda.
No one at my gym or at my local (UK) gay pub or at any other of my watering holes had ever heard of this.

No one at my gym or at my local (UK) gay pub or at any other of my watering holes had ever heard of this.Perhaps you need to get out more?

Private eye has a circulation of around 200,000 an issue .
The UK population is around 60 million.
I would suggest that less than 1% of the population of the UK would know that Private Eye refers to the Queen as Brenda.
No one at my gym or at my local (UK) gay pub or at any other of my watering holes had ever heard of this.

That is fair comment. I've always viewed Private Eye as a bit juvenile but admit that I've only really read it in the dentist's waiting room. Occasionally, Hislop mentions "Brenda" on HIGNFY, which currently gets three broadcasts over the weekend, the second one uneditted. It's a joke that has past its sell-by date as is any joke taking a swipe at our long-suffering Royal Family. With Diana's wonderful sons increasingly taking an active role iconising the feelings of the British people we are not far from returning to the days when we could reflect "Thank Heavens we have a Royal Family and thank heavens we have the Royal Family we have."

i wish one of lillibets offspring would marry a Thai and we could merge a la EU and do away with this border nonsense.

[ikarus]

Here is the article I agree one hundred percent.




The politics of fear that is the Thai matrix
ML NATTAKORN DEVAKULA


Our Land is a Convoluted Matrix of Misinformation and Propaganda - but there is no red pill or blue pill. There is only this article and a few others.

Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe employs "politics of fear" tactics every time he lies to his people, that if an opposing political party's candidate becomes president instead of him, the new man would simply be a puppet of the British, and that the African country would return to white rule similar to the days of Ian Smith's Rhodesia or the previous colonial era.

Just last week, prior to her required victory in the US state of Pennsylvania, the Democratic Party's presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton employed similar tactics, but in a less obvious fashion compared to the Zimbabwean leader.

Opting to show old footage of al-Qaeda impresario Osama Bin Laden and the fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, television advertisements which were broadcast during the final campaign days in the state certainly qualified as resorting to the "politics of fear".

Scare enough of the voters into believing that terrorists will attack them and soon they will begin to want to cling to the seemingly tougher candidate on foreign policy.

The idea was to get folks to think "Hillary" when national security pops into their heads, while encouraging people to question the unreliable, young and inexperienced Barack Obama.

The notion that the "politics of fear" strategy is something that exists only in the minds of conspiracy theorists, is the very reason why the strategy has perpetuated itself from the ancient days of the Roman empire to the modern day of the American empire.

It is one of the most credulous methods to keep an entire population at bay. Information sedation paves the way for mental numbness, and as a by-product, a society of normally educated individuals is unable to tap its rational and operable mind.

In effect, the victims of the "politics of fear" are rendered mere occupants of matrix-like (yes, the movie The Matrix) tubes and are force-fed propagandistic-based values until they voluntary seek it to survive.

That earlier metaphorical comparison may be a bit overdone. Nonetheless, this is what Thai society has evolutionarily come to face.

We are not physically in a "Matrix" but we are indeed metaphysically in one. Numbing "politics of fear" strategies have been employed on our people to the point where half an entire society readily accept packaged anti-politician versions of stories and misinformation on graft intended for them to accept undemocratic rule.

This is an undemocratic rule where politicians in the executive branch are merely the governed, while judges sitting on benches, crusaders working in independent bodies and military officers headquartered in camps, are the governors.

The context of the governance of our nation is based on the pre-determined requirement to convince the general public that corrupt politicians are the root of all evil. This need to persuade all of us to accept that politicians are irremediably corrupt exists because of the need, on the part of others, to govern these very politicians.

Persuasion roles normally performed by the military establishment in openly dictatorial states are, in Thailand, formed by the still-conservative institution of the military, agenda-fixed newspapers and pockets of web-based media outlets, right-wing aristocratic elites, anti-development-oriented non-governmental organisations, stubborn, rules-obsessed counter-corruption agencies, and other willing participants in academia.

The network aimed at dissuading voters from trusting their representatives works in harmony.

The NGOs move to express disapproval of particular politicians or policies. An opposing politician opportunistically submits "evidence" of a make-believe wrongdoing to counter-corruption agencies. The agencies investigate the graft, no matter how minute a violation it is, with the commitment to catch the "bad guy".

In the meantime the entrenched and, at times, politically motivated anti-progressive newspapers splash across their publications daily headlines aimed at discrediting these very politicians.

On top of all this, as if these actions were not enough, right-wing intellectuals - who normally are either doctors or holders of professorial duties at major public universities - give tremendously long interviews trashing all the values represented by these "corrupt" politicians.

The worst of it comes when groups are mobilised through a cooperative effort between anti-progressive newspapers and means-oriented backward-looking NGOs to oust these politicians.

The current Constitution especially favours this latter weapon because now these politicians can so conveniently be removed through channels available in the half-appointed Senate.

As long as our constituents believe that politicians are the bad guys, and especially if they believe that the worst of them come in the form of a Thaksin Shinawatra-like reincarnation, Thailand will never transform into a democracy.

We will remain a semi-democratic state with at least the silent majority unwilling to come out on the streets to demand reversals to extra-constitutional influences.

The very fact that people learn to live with coups is because deep in their hearts they fear that excessively powerful, elected leaders will either be thoroughly corrupt, unforgivably disloyal to the palace, or ever so interventionistic in independent organisations and the judiciary.

Thai politicians are not any worse than those of other developing democracies. In fact, ours may just be better and cleaner. But, if that were true, then none of us would be able to sit on our tails and willingly have shoved down our throats any undemocratic order of the day.

Though some of you may be nodding your head in agreement, many more of you are probably shaking your head sideways saying to yourselves, what does this guy know? For if what I have been writing is true, then we do indeed live in a matrix. It is a matrix that intricately links the establishment of traditionalists with many media outlets overly obsessed with exposing politicians, to the mobilising agents in society who very efficiently propagandise the mass-level misunderstanding that particular politicians are a threat to the system, a cancer to justice, and destablisers of development.

Thailand nevertheless is not a fictional film. There is a network that links us. The matrix does exist, maybe not exactly as I have been describing, but it does exist.

And, sadly for all of us, there is no Keanu Reeves. That does not, however, mean there will never be someone willing to eventually play the role of Neo.

The writer is a news analyst.

Excerpt: тАЬThere is a very simple way of making sure there will never be a coup again in Thailand, but I canтАЩt tell you what that is, because of the people it involves.тАЭ UhтАж Ok.

I believe this news analyst is under 30. And as the above excerpt of an interview may show.....confusing.

[ikarus]

Excerpt: тАЬThere is a very simple way of making sure there will never be a coup again in Thailand, but I canтАЩt tell you what that is, because of the people it involves.тАЭ UhтАж Ok.

I believe this news analyst is under 30. And as the above excerpt of an interview may show.....confusing.
I guess you just googled on guys name. There is nothing confusing in the article above and I personally do not discriminate based on age.

I personally do not discriminate based on age.Even in bed?

Homi,
You account for 1 in every 20 posts on this forum since June 2005, plus you avidly read the Spectator, the Sydney Morning Herald and the Economist.
Do you really find Pattaya that boring?

Do you really find Pattaya that boring?Never having been to any seaside brothel, Pattaya included, you're asking the wrong person