Buying A House With The B/F

My bf and I have been house hunting, his lawyer has suggested to get round the thai laws we would be better putting the house in the bf's name. I have some reservations about this but the lawyers says that as long as I keep my financial records I will still own the house should my bf and I split up. Can anyone give me some advice.

[Davey612]

Sorry, I hope you are sincere in asking this question. But for someone who claims to be in Pattaya for 20 years, you should know the answer by now, right?

[Bob]

Yep, difficult to tell if this is a set-up or, possibly, a sincere question.

If sincere, the short answer is "not a friggin' chance." If it's in your bf's name, it's his to do what he wants with it and your financial records will only help remind you of how poor a choice you made financing it. The lawyer's advice is correct only in the sense that it's illegal for you to own land and a house in Thailand (although I think you can legally own real estate to some degree if you have a certain permit and/or get some special status by depositing a gabillion baht in Thailand).

About the most positive spin one can put on that situation is that a farang can own the house, i.e. the physical structure, while a Thai owns the soil it sits upon.

About a year ago there was a story about a farang who, when his relationship with his Thai gf hit the rocks, hired a bulldozer to flatten "his" house on "her" property.

There is also a current Pattaya news story about a drunk farang setting fire to his house after arguing with his Thai gf. Details are scarce, but one possibility is that he similarly decided to dispose of "his" house.

My bf and I have been house hunting, his lawyer has suggested to get round the thai laws we would be better putting the house in the bf's name. I have some reservations about this but the lawyers says that as long as I keep my financial records I will still own the house should my bf and I split up. Can anyone give me some advice.


Oh yes it's a fabulous idea - NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Put it in a company name - should you guys split up (heaven forbid) - you will still have your house and your dignity :cherry:

Even better, buy a condo under the foreign ownership scheme, then its yours for 30 years or so.

Why 30 years? Isn't it yours forever (unless it is a lease hold property, which are relatively rare).

In any case, sounds like the OP needs to find himself a new lawyer!

[ikarus]

Yep, difficult to tell if this is a set-up or, possibly, a sincere question.

If sincere, the short answer is "not a friggin' chance." If it's in your bf's name, it's his to do what he wants with it and your financial records will only help remind you of how poor a choice you made financing it. The lawyer's advice is correct only in the sense that it's illegal for you to own land and a house in Thailand (although I think you can legally own real estate to some degree if you have a certain permit and/or get some special status by depositing a gabillion baht in Thailand).
You know, Bob is a good lawer himself (though getting dumber and dumber with aging according to his self-admission). Unfortunately, he practices law in Michigan. Thus, if you need to buy a house in Micigan, ask Bob. I would not rely on anything he advices regarding Thailand. In fact, you can buy a house in Thailand on your Bf name and simultaneously make a lease on your name. You need a good Thai lawer to make it done in a proper way. It will guarantee that you can have the house for 30 years no matter what is your relationship with your bf. What is unclear to me what is going to happen if you cease to exist during this period. Then, I guess, the house goes to the owner, i.e. your current bf.
This thought always gave me pause when I pondered such a deal (with any Thai not necessarily bf).

[Bob]

You forgot dumbest, Ikarus....

He asked about owning the real estate, not leasing it. Technically, I believe you're right that Mr. Falang could own the house under a 30-year lease. Given Mr. Falang is buying the dirt too, he'll never own that (and bf can do with it what he wants) and, adding some practicality here, what does Mr. Falang do when the 30 years are up? Flatten it as noted by one of the other posters.

Unfortunately, the mix of a thai boy with a misty-eyed falang often comes up with some rather hair-brained ideas, ones that too often end up even more unfortunate when the relationship goes sour. But, who knows, it just might work; regardless, each of us has the god-given (or buddha-given) right to make all the mistakes we want so carry on....

[TrongpaiExpat]

It's always a good idea to take legal advice from the Sawatdee board certified advisers. :geek:

T42.
Don't under any circumstances put your house in your boyfriends name whether or not you think you trust him or not is part of but not all of the question.

What happens if perish the thought he has a motorbike accident and passes away, do you think his family are going to say that's OK furang just you stay there for the rest of you life with out blessing enjoy. This is just one of the many scenarios you could be faced with. Regarding all you hear about this lease and that lease that are not always successful when taken to a court of law.

If your intent on buying a house form a company (a condo in your name would be safer) get a good lawyer I can help you in that direction if need-be, if you are the only Furang that would be in the company you must try to get all the other 6 Thai shareholders who will singe share transfer and company shareholder paperwork to singe them BLANK as in not filled in yet, and its better if these people don't know you. If you require further info on this let me know.

Suggest to your B/F that you would rather buy a condo as it could be put in your name directly and no one else's and see what his reaction is if he gets mad at you or starts sulking there's a fair chance there's a dead rat lingering under the bed, and it wont be the first one I've heard of.

I don't want to tar your B/F with a tarred brush he may be a very genuine trustful person but you can never be too sure and you will never know what influence that family, boyfriends, girlfriends and all kinds of hidden outside forced he may have or may come to him later.

It's always a good idea to take legal advice from the Sawatdee board certified advisers. :geek:

It actually sounds like he's getting better legal advice here than he is from his lawyer!

[Sen Yai]

It's always a good idea to take legal advice from the Sawatdee board certified advisers. :geek:

It actually sounds like he's getting better legal advice here than he is from his lawyer!

Read the first post again. His lawyer being the Thai bf's lawyer!


My bf and I have been house hunting, his lawyer has suggested to get round the thai laws we.........

Wave after wave of side-splitting laughter after reading this one!

Never ever ever put it in the bf's name. And if you do be prepared for mama and family to move in and take over or if your out of town he'll sell it while your gone. WILL it to him if you like and can figure a way around the ownership issue. Maybe setting up a corporation with the house as an asset.

Gawd there are some thick runts on this forum :kermit: :kermit:

[Narakmak]

I think starting a phony company is also a very bad idea.
The best way to "own" a house here that I know about is the lease/build option. First you find a suitable plot of land and take out a 30 year lease on it. Then you build the house. You own the house and you lease the land. If you expect to live over 30 years, not so good.

I suppose you might be able to do this another way to involve the bf. Buy the land for the bf and have him lease you the land for 30 years. The he or his family can't kick you out for 30 years. Then do as above.

This can not be a serious post!!! My God, anyone with half a brain knows not to take advice from someone else's lawyer!!!!

Hire your own lawyer, and do some research as to who is a good one!!! And use a 30 year renewable lease with all on the appropriate caveats including: transfer, renewable, rentablity, inheirablity, saleability...etc. And don't forget that you have to pay an annual property tax on a lease hold..(dirt cheap)..,because rental property is taxed. I have been down this road and it all worked out perfectly!!

If you pay X million baht for some land, and put it in your bf's name, you are giving him a PRESENT, a GIFT.

Imagine the following scenarios:

(1) You go through with all this, and sign the 30-year lease, and next week your bf sells his land. (Remember, it's HIS! It comes encumbered with a lease, but it's still HIS.) Now you have a total stranger as your landlord, while your bf is counting his money in Isaan.

(2) All of this again, but this time your bf is a really bad character. He happens to have some friends on the police force, though. And so he plants drugs in the house and calls the police. The police are of course "shocked!" to find these evil drugs. In the end, if you are lucky, you may simply be deported as a bad guy. Boy, that lease is sure doing you a lot of good, isn't it? During the next month, bad bf invites gf to come and live with him in his new house.

(3) All of this again, and your bf is a True Prince among men. HOWEVER, he has some family members you have always disliked because you consider them to be of bad character. One of those family members arranges an "accident" for you. There is no direct benefit, but the family has now taken a step up in the world.

I will confess that it is always option (3) which gives me the chills.

If you want to give him a present, DO SO. In the meantime, buy a condo if you like, or, as the Wise Men Say: RENT. It's a whole lot cheaper than buying. I'm paying 12,000 a month for a superb 3-story townhouse in an excellent neighborhood, which is about 140,000 a year. I was once given the "opportunity" to buy the place for 3 million.

Do the economics, and the math.

Just mail me the money and I'll buy it for u over the internet.

[Narakmak]

I agree buying the land for the bf carries a risk, but I still think if a person wants a house rather than a condo, the lease option with a good lawyer is totally legal and can be made very safe with a good lawyer.

But in that case, the property is NOT in your bf's name. It's in the name of Khun Yakjone.

If you pay X million baht for some land, and put it in your bf's name, you are giving him a PRESENT, a GIFT.
Similarly, advice I've seen on many forums about buying property in Thailand: "Never spend/invest more money than you are willing and able to walk away from."

If the price of the house/land doesn't affect your ability to continue your desired lifestyle should you lose the house/land, then it's easier to recommend you follow through with the transaction suggested in the opening post. If the purchase is eating into your life's savings significantly, however...

Gawd there are some thick runts on this forum :kermit: :kermit:

Not thick Raksiam, perhaps just a little too hasty to give you advice and they possibly didn't notice. Which in itself isn't such a bad thing.

That would be "Cupid Stunts."

[francois]

I have found the responses to t42 initial post very informative. I thought of buying a house in Pattaya but never considered all the ramifications and scenarios which have been expressed herein. Although I trust my bf, what indeed would happen if he were to die in a motorbike accident, etc?
Food for thought!

Francois

[dab69]

silly cunts

This can not be a serious post!!! My God, anyone with half a brain knows not to take advice from someone else's lawyer!!!!

Hire your own lawyer, and do some research as to who is a good one!!! And use a 30 year renewable lease with all on the appropriate caveats including: transfer, renewable, rentablity, inheirablity, saleability...etc. And don't forget that you have to pay an annual property tax on a lease hold..(dirt cheap)..,because rental property is taxed. I have been down this road and it all worked out perfectly!!


Why reply to it then :kermit: :kermit: :kermit:

[dab69]

but he is willing to listen to internet message boards?

Just mail me the money and I'll buy it for u over the internet.

Send me your bank details and I'll put the cash in first thing Monday morning :cyclopsani: :cyclopsani: :cyclopsani:

Glad to see you woke up. Good morning

Glad to see you woke up. Good morning


Dream on kermit

Although I trust my bf, what indeed would happen if he were to die in a motorbike accident, etc. Food for thought!

Francois, if he had made a will with you as the beneficiary then under Thai law you would legally own the land (up to a maximum of one rai).

While I understand the reasons behind the apparently unanimous advice not to put anything in your b/f's / partner's name, my own position is that my partner and I are joint directors of the company which is the registered owner of our house, either of us being able to make company decisions independently (hence, unlike 99.9% of companies which own property, it is legal!); other land I have purchased is in his name (in the village where he was born, for example, this was unavoidable as there are no land documents in the district). Our cars & motorbikes are co-incidentally evenly divided in his and my names and my bank accounts are joint (although my main offshore bank has imposed certain "controls" on this which I made no objections to).

To me it is all a question of trust and of what sort of relationship you have and want to have.

Would I advise anyone else to do the same? No, under no circumstances - if someone needs advice, the level of trust is not there and it would be wrong to test it.

Do I think I have been rash - no, it has worked for five years so far; although it appears to make no difference to him (he avoids the subject of bank details, ATM numbers in the event of my demise, etc, as being unlucky) I am comfortable with my decision.

Have I made the right choice - ask me again in 20 to 50 years.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

buy it my name..or even better..in my boyfriend's name.

make sure the cutlery is under lock and key..don't go out on the balcony..sleep in a different room with the door locked..you get the drift.

Francois, if he had made a will with you as the beneficiary then under Thai law you would legally own the land (up to a maximum of one rai).



I have not heard this before. Is it true?

buy it my name..or even better..in my boyfriend's name.

make sure the cutlery is under lock and key..don't go out on the balcony..sleep in a different room with the door locked..you get the drift.

Should I invite the extended family to stay with us?????

.... I'm paying 12,000 a month for a superb 3-story townhouse in an excellent neighborhood, which is about 140,000 a year. I was once given the "opportunity" to buy the place for 3 million.

Do the economics, and the math.

Its funny these conversations always start out with "I want to buy a house...." but never "Should I Buy or Rent?" And whenever I ask people why the want to buy they look at me like I never finished Grade School or am some kind of alien from Mars.
I grant you there are many emotional reasons for owning your own piece of land but most of that is just propaganda developed by the Real Estate industry.
There is only one rational reason and that's the investment potential. If the price appreciation over time is greater than the carrying costs of the loan and the maintenance costs and depreciation of the structure (yes, houses do deteriorate over time!) then you've made a good deal. The problem is real estate values do NOT always go up, as many are finding out now.

Take a look of how illiquid the housing market is in Thailand right now. I've seen some of the same houses for sale for 3-4 years on some websites. The prices haven't moved so I guess the sellers aren't really motivated right now. But then the 10mil baht house is worth 30% more in dollar terms so the owners aren't hurting. But they also aren't able to reap any of their potential gains.
I'd rather do like HenryC and keep my 3 million in liquid assets and use the returns to pay my rent!

[quote="Gone Fishing":333trkww]
Francois, if he had made a will with you as the beneficiary then under Thai law you would legally own the land (up to a maximum of one rai).



I have not heard this before. Is it true?[/quote:333trkww]
I seem to recall that it's true, but the foreigner has one year to dispose of the property. IOW, he can only own it for one year, but I don't recall who gets the land if he can't sell it within a year. Can somebody verify that I'm not mis-remembering?

[allieb]

Guys

I think this is a piss take by T41. If it is in fact serious then he is a silly cunt for even thinking of it.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Its funny these conversations always start out with "I want to buy a house...." but never "Should I Buy or Rent?" And whenever I ask people why the want to buy they look at me like I never finished Grade School or am some kind of alien from Mars.

There's been threads on buying vs renting before and not very informative and prone to the usual food fights and insults.

I have stopped asking farangs that own condos why. Some appeared insulted that I asked. One old fella in Pattaya told me he bought as an investment. He must have been in his 70's and I had to bite my tongue not to say your ignoring the fact that you can't take your investment with you when you time comes.

Others have told me they bought so the BF could could have an inheritance. Fine, but unless he has good money sense, few do, he will loose the house, go in debt, and have to sell it. Then the money for the sale will be gone in less than a year. A better option is a trust fund with monthly payments.

[catawampuscat]

good advice trongpai ,but wasted on those foolish men who think they know everything and are smarter than everyone else..

The old adage, there is no fool like an old fool rings true over and over again.
Even some of those who get burned go back into the fire because this time it is different but the only thing that is different
is a different boy and his gf get the house/money/motorbike whatever..

Another old adage , you can't take it with you ,applies but make sure you don't deplete your resourses trying to buy
love when you really can only rent it, especially with straight teenage money boys younger than your grandchildren... :cat:

A fool and his money....

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

there are 2 things to remember here...

a. look at every realty site..every house for rent is also for sale..

b. a thousand powerful men in history have lost their kingdoms because of a pretty face ..Alexander the Great, Oscar Wilde..perhaps even Homintern given time.

[Narakmak]

Buying a condo in Thailand is an investment, just like anywhere else.
You lock in your housing cost.
You can sell it later if you wish. Not all expats die here. Many end up selling and leaving.

DELETED

[quote="Singapore Sexpat":11dcvz0u][quote="Gone Fishing":11dcvz0u]
Francois, if he had made a will with you as the beneficiary then under Thai law you would legally own the land (up to a maximum of one rai).



I have not heard this before. Is it true?[/quote:11dcvz0u]
I seem to recall that it's true, but the foreigner has one year to dispose of the property. IOW, he can only own it for one year, but I don't recall who gets the land if he can't sell it within a year. Can somebody verify that I'm not mis-remembering?[/quote:11dcvz0u]

The one year rule applies to any land over the one rai limit. This limit also applies to anyone investing the 40,000,000 baht required in a government approved company or government bonds, who is then allowed to buy up to one rai of land for a single private house - I think you are allowed your "investment" back after a minimum of seven years!

It should be noted that the 30 year lease cannot be sold on, nor are any "guarantees" of renewal enforceable under Thai law.

My bf and I have been house hunting, his lawyer has suggested to get round the Thai laws we would be better putting the house in the bf's name.

Great idea, I think you should make your bank account a joint one as well, with only one signature required to make a withdrawal. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/whistle.gif


George.

You must have an extraordinary boyfriend if realators are willing to accept him in exchange for a domicile. Few I have have met in Thailand would constitute acceptable deposits. Mai Pen Rai.

I have been considering going to the local army and navy store and buying a 2 room tent

Then he can stay up all night with his friends playing on his PS2

[ikarus]

Overall,
It seems to be an interesting discussion here. From investment in real estate perspective the overall area of South East Asia (Thailand included) is still considered to be undervalued. Thus, I disagree with those who think that renting is better than buying (at least in places like Pattaya and Phuket). Keep in mind, that currencies like US dollar and UK pound are on the long term path of decline and for those with retirement income in these currencies buying is much more preferable IMHO. Of course, due to ownership problems, houses are much cheaper than condos and for me, personally, the big question is how safe is lease. I am not even talking about renewal after 30 years. If somebody else (bf or not) owns the land, does not it give an incentive to get rid of homeowner and take a posession of the house? People seem to express opposite opinions on this matter. What is te practice here? E.g. is it possible to have the lease which allows homeowner to secure the lease continuation (within 30 years period) for the person he names (say, aunt in Kansas) after his death?
Or if the house owner is imprisoned ? I refer here to the scenario outlined in Henry Cate post?

From investment in real estate perspective the overall area of South East Asia (Thailand included) is still considered to be undervalued.

Considered by whom?


is it possible to have the lease which allows homeowner to secure the lease continuation (within 30 years period) for the person he names

If seriously interested you should ask a couple of lawyers. The legal situation, as far as I am aware and am informed by my lawyer, is very clear: a 30 year lease cannot be sold, inherited, or transferred in any other way.


You must have an extraordinary boyfriend if realators are willing to accept him in exchange for a domicile. Few I have have met in Thailand would constitute acceptable deposits. The joke (if there is one) may be clearer if you said whose post you were referring to.