Anti-farang prejudice?

I've seen people refer to an "anti-farang" prejudice several times, and I'm adding this note, not to start a fight or anything, but just to add some more information to the bubbling pot of data.

I just talked with my ex a while ago, and he had been living it up (Songkraan) in front of Kaad Suan Kaew (Central), where he loves to go and see all the handsome guys in their soaking-wet clothes. (Parenthetically, that's the main reason he is my "ex." He came to realize that he liked handsome young Thai guys just as much as I do! So he drifted away... but we're still good friends and he speaks very good English from the time he spent at an American university.)

That background will help to explain why he said, "I had a great time today...but....I LIED!!" He told the guys he met that he was an American, and to his amazement, he was suddenly the most popular person there! I believe he let on to be of Chinese-American ancestry, but, whatever...he was suddenly surrounded by sopping-wet Thai guys who wanted to be his friend! And it got pretty overt. "One of them kept bumping into me, with his" ahem, personal representative.

In any case, he was really surprised, and also very certain that if he had honestly said that he was Thai, none of this would have happened.

This ties in with other things that I have read -- that most Thai, even the middle and upper class, would like to have a farang contact or friend, mostly because he might be able to help out with confusing farang issues -- such as getting young Somchai into an American school.

This ties in with other things that I have read -- that most Thai, even the middle and upper class, would like to have a farang contact or friend, mostly because he might be able to help out with confusing farang issues -- such as getting young Somchai into an American school.

I fail to see how this "ties in" with anything. As fattman rightly said, "most (middle and upper class Thai) have plenty of good contacts already", and entrance to "an American school" simply requires the fees, not contacts (or, apparently, intelligence).

I called the posting "Anti-Farang Prejudice?" because the details of the posting described what can only be called a "Pro-Farang Prejudice." As my ex mentioned, and as I recorded, he believes that if he had simply and honestly declared himself to be Thai, none of this would have happened.

So, now that I have clarified my writing to state that I am describing a "pro-farang prejudice," perhaps it becomes clearer why I went on to say that this "tied in" with other statements (I think from Culture Shock! Thailand, that many Thai people would like to have a friendship or a relationship with a farang.

Sorry for the unclear posting!

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

it's still no clearer to me except it seems you have a boyfriend. :dontknow:

Had A Boyfriend (EX)

[kittyboy]

[quote="Henry Cate":20d3n1b6]This ties in with other things that I have read -- that most Thai, even the middle and upper class, would like to have a farang contact or friend, mostly because he might be able to help out with confusing farang issues -- such as getting young Somchai into an American school.

I fail to see how this "ties in" with anything. As fattman rightly said, "most (middle and upper class Thai) have plenty of good contacts already", and entrance to "an American school" simply requires the fees, not contacts (or, apparently, intelligence).[/quote:20d3n1b6]

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I find this typical of quite a few posts on this board. The original posting is "that that most Thai, even the middle and upper class, would like to have a farang contact or friend, mostly because he might be able to help out with confusing farang issues -- such as getting young Somchai into an American school." The statement was not just limited to middle and upper class thai who want to send their kid to college in the west - that was an example.

Also, what is middle class in thailand? 500,000 - 600,000 baht a year? That is the poverty level for most western countries, so I suspect that most middle class thais do have more money than most westerners will see. I also suspect that many Thais would appreciate a farang friend to help interpret when they have to deal with farang. Also, gettinginto an american school actually does require a bit of brains and not just money. At the phd level for example different schools have different reputations and where one graduates has a tremendous impact on a future carreer. I suspect many Thais who are looking for advanced degrees in the US would very much like to have american contacts to be able to discuss the american education system. Even things like geography can be a bit of a problem for foreign students. I know of a person from Thailand who applied for a school. It was in Manhattan. It turned out to be Manhattan Kansas - oops. He was not up on the Geopgraphy of the US.

My experience - I have a thai friend here in the US. He is doing a phd in linguistics. He is very smart and has no problem with the english language. But we talk 2-3 times a week about his boyfiend. The boyfriend is American and I have to tell my friend what is going on with the guy because he has a hard time understanding American culture.

Petty people focus on petty details.

If you go and read Stickman's column from a couple of weeks ago, reflecting on his years in Thailand, I thought he made a very good point about the 1997 economic crisis. At that time the elite fed the propaganda to the masses that the reason for their suffering was not the incompetence, extravagance and greed of the Thai elite but the anti-Thai feeling of Westerners. This went down well with a people predisposed to chauvinism. Tell a big enough lie often enough, and all that. The anti-Western feeling persists

Here is my take on what I think is trying to be said here. Thailand is one of the very very few countries in the world that has never be a colonial possession of a European power and that did not happen by accident or in a love feast of welcoming Farang to Thailand. Thailand as a country has always been very wiery of foreign power and influence in Thailand. Thailand has always picked and chosen how the western world has been admitted to or allowed to influence the country. So yes, there is a very powerful undertone of suspicion and mistrust of anything or any person foreign.

That having been said the Thai people and monarchy have always had a very warm and welcoming attitude towards farang, in fact they have always been fascinated with foreign culture and power. In the late 18th century and the early 20th century the English were the chosen best friends and later in the 20th century and into the 21st century the Americans are held close as friends and protectors.

Call it a love hate relationship...it is one of those Thai farang relationships that is always on the rocks, but never quite gets to divorce court. I'm sure that many of the posters here can identify with the situation as they are living it everyday in their personal lives.

[Bob]

Tom, I'm not sure if I can understand your comments about Thai history. In my view, Thailand did nothing on purpose to isolate itself from foreigners, it just happened to get historically lucky. With the English colonialists on one side and the French colonialists on the other, Thailand ultimately became the buffer state and that juxtaposition, along with a little luck(and perhaps a choice by the French and English not to attempt to live next door to each other), probably had more to do with the fact a foreign power never colonized Thailand than any maneuvers the Thais ever made. The English or the French, had they desired to, could have taken over Thailand in a heartbeat.

And I don't see how being oppressed by a foreign power in the past seems to relate to any wariness of foreigners. Those countries that were severely oppressed (Vietnam or Laos or Cambodia, for example) by foreigners don't seem to be possessed of a populace either wary or unfriendly to foreigners. The Thai upper class has perhaps engineered laws to preserve their wealth and position (laws such as forbidding foreigners to own land or many business interests) - and while that elite class is wary of foreigners or even their own citizens grabbing their wealth or their power - I don't believe the general Thai populace is wary or unfriendly towards foreigners at all. I was rather pleasantly surprised years ago during my first trip to Thailand as to how friendly the general Thai population was to foreigners (including me) and that's generally consistent with what I had read and heard from others. While there surely are some unpleasant people in Thailand, the name "Land of Smiles" isn't all that an inaccurate moniker/description. One doesn't experience that same level of warmth or friendliness in many western countries.

If you go and read Stickman's column from a couple of weeks ago, reflecting on his years in Thailand, I thought he made a very good point about the 1997 economic crisis. At that time the elite fed the propaganda to the masses that the reason for their suffering was not the incompetence, extravagance and greed of the Thai elite but the anti-Thai feeling of Westerners. This went down well with a people predisposed to chauvinism. Tell a big enough lie often enough, and all that. The anti-Western feeling persists

Stickman turned his column over to "Stick Mark II" a while ago. This guy has not been in Thailand all that long (10 years), and his "insights" are not particularly insightful to me. Down here in Singapore, we call 10 years still a newbie.

Petty people focus on petty details.

You certainly did, missing the broad generalisation which is absolutely "typical of quite a few posts on this board".

"that most Thai, even the middle and upper class, would like to have a farang contact or friend" is the crux of the post; Culture Shock!Thailand is the reference. While this view may be the poster's opinion, which I do not necessarily disagree with entirely, by introducing "even the middle and upper class" he has totally changed any reference to "most Thai", inferring that "middle and upper class" Thai are likely to be looking for "a farang contact or friend" in a "pretty overt" manner. This is not pettiness or semantics - it is total imagination.

"middle and upper class" Thai have ample opportunity to mix with and meet similar farangs in business, socially and, when younger, at school and university overseas or at international schools. To suggest that, in general, they either need or are likely to make "a farang contact or friend" in the way HC described is bordering on the ridiculous.

Your own post is in danger of doing the same:

"what is middle class in thailand? 500,000 - 600,000 baht a year? That is the poverty level for most western countries" - think again.

" gettinginto an american school actually does require a bit of brains and not just money" - while you appear to be referring to universities, rather than schools, this does not appear to be borne out by some of those top universities' graduates.

"he has a hard time understanding American culture" - this hardly makes him any different to the rest of the world.

Bob,

Your theory of Thailand being recipient of good luck because the English and French wanted a buffer zone between their competing colonies simply fails the test of historical observation. If one looks at a political map of the colonial world it will become readily obvious that the English and the French didn't bother with buffer states in their other colonial territories, Canada would be prime example. The Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, English and French fought tooth and nail at every opportunity to claim new territory.

Your comments about the Thai upper classes continuing battle to maintain control of the country and their wealth is entirely accurate as are you comments about the poor. I think that the point that you have missed is the reason that the Thai people remain so kind, passive, and friendly to all including Farang. For well over a hundred years the Buddhist religion's message in Thailand has been controlled by the state. Make no mistake about it, the religion and the government are in lock step with one another. And what one might ask has this controlled message been. The message to the poor: accept your lot in life ...(self sufficiency), work for unity..(don't rock the boat), simile, be kind, work hard, respect and reverence for the living Buddha, and your next life will be better. The message to the rich??? Your great karma has brought you to this life rich and powerful...enjoy, spend, be extravagant and don't worry about the poor, their problem not yours.

I think that one also needs to think carefully about what some, not all, of those similes you see reflect. Is it truely a smile or simply a face put up to cover the thoughts that are behind the smile???

Please don't misunderstand what I am saying; I love Thailand and its people and have chosen to spend much time here, but I think that it is very important to take off the rose colored glasses and accept the reality of what is.

"The Thai feelings for such situations is succinctly expressed by faa suung paen din tam. 'Sky high, land low' constitutes an order of social nature so self-evident that only a farang could question it"

Mont Redmond

Down here in Singapore, we call 10 years still a newbie.Yes, what is the name of that country, allegedly not an hereditary monarchy, where the Great Leader was followed by his son, the Dear Leader. North Korea? Singapore? Same, same!

[kittyboy]

You certainly did, missing the broad generalisation which is absolutely "typical of quite a few posts on this board".

"that most Thai, even the middle and upper class, would like to have a farang contact or friend" is the crux of the post; Culture Shock!Thailand is the reference. While this view may be the poster's opinion, which I do not necessarily disagree with entirely, by introducing "even the middle and upper class" he has totally changed any reference to "most Thai", inferring that "middle and upper class" Thai are likely to be looking for "a farang contact or friend" in a "pretty overt" manner. This is not pettiness or semantics - it is total imagination.

"middle and upper class" Thai have ample opportunity to mix with and meet similar farangs in business, socially and, when younger, at school and university overseas or at international schools. To suggest that, in general, they either need or are likely to make "a farang contact or friend" in the way HC described is bordering on the ridiculous.

Your own post is in danger of doing the same:



" gettinginto an american school actually does require a bit of brains and not just money" - while you appear to be referring to universities, rather than schools, this does not appear to be borne out by some of those top universities' graduates.

"he has a hard time understanding American culture" - this hardly makes him any different to the rest of the world.

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You certainly did miss the overall point of the post. Too bad. As I said petty people focus on petty things.


introducing "even the middle and upper class" he has totally changed any reference to "most Thai", inferring that "middle and upper class"

It did not totally change the reference for me.


"what is middle class in thailand? 500,000 - 600,000 baht a year? That is the poverty level for most western countries" - think again.


I have thought again and the poverty level in the west for a family of four is quite low. In the US it is around $20,000 or 600,000 baht a year. Strange you think otherwise. HmmтАж


You might be the ridulous one here. My Thai friend who is going to school here in the US describes his family as middle class. His father makes about 40,000 baht a month. He did not grow up with lots of foreign friends, etcтАж. so maybe your statements are bordering on the ridiculous.

Kittyboy,

If you want to continue posting on this forum, you will need to "get used to" the cockroaches who live here.

As Smiles said, "This is the cockroach of forums." And he actually meant that as a compliment!

You will have to learn to shrug off the people who call you a failure, or a person with a totally-boring-sex-life, or a butterfly.

You may even begin to wonder why you waste your time here.

Vellcome, Junior Cockroach! You may become a True Bitch in just a few weeks!

And you will have Sawatdee Forum ("edgy" according to Frowns) to thank for it!

[kittyboy]

Kittyboy,

If you want to continue posting on this forum, you will need to "get used to" the cockroaches who live here.

As Smiles said, "This is the cockroach of forums." And he actually meant that as a compliment!

You will have to learn to shrug off the people who call you a failure, or a person with a totally-boring-sex-life, or a butterfly.

You may even begin to wonder why you waste your time here.

Vellcome, Junior Cockroach! You may become a True Bitch in just a few weeks!

And you will have Sawatdee Forum ("edgy" according to Frowns) to thank for it!
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Hey thanks for the note. I don't often post here as I generally find the replies snarky.
However, every now and again I feel a bit ornery and like to needle one of the other posters a bit.
I am sure that in a few hours GoneFishing will be back with very extensive rubuttals proving to me and all others that he could not be wrong on anything and will demonstrate his superior knowledge on any and all subject matter :)

Oh well such is life.

My definition of Thai middle class is those who come from "old money" with "old names"So hardly middle class, surely? They see themselves as the elite
... or earn 100.000 baht or more per month with a good education. Directors of hotels, SVPs of public companies, successful interior and fashion designers and so on. I have a friend working on a ship on 80,000 a month but he doesn't see himself as middle class. Born a rice farmer, worked hard, and got lucky.The middle class has generally risen from the traders and other merchants in almost every society (I'll say almost because if I say every some pedant will come up with the exception (that proves the rule))

[Brad the Impala]

My definition of Thai middle class is those who come from "old money" with "old names"So hardly middle class, surely? They see themselves as the elite
... or earn 100.000 baht or more per month with a good education. Directors of hotels, SVPs of public companies, successful interior and fashion designers and so on. I have a friend working on a ship on 80,000 a month but he doesn't see himself as middle class. Born a rice farmer, worked hard, and got lucky.The middle class has generally risen from the traders and other merchants in almost every society (I'll say almost because if I say every some pedant will come up with the exception (that proves the rule))

A pedant on this board, surely not.

Aren't they all busy drinking in Sunnee Plaza?

introducing "even the middle and upper class" he has totally changed any reference to "most Thai", inferring that "middle and upper class"

It did not totally change the reference for me.

Maybe if you had read / quoted the complete sentence, instead of omitting (... inferring that "middle and upper class"...) Thai are likely to be looking for "a farang contact or friend" in a "pretty overt" manner" you would have noticed the change - or maybe not.



what is middle class in thailand? 500,000 - 600,000 baht a year? That is the poverty level for most western countries" - think again.


I have thought again and the poverty level in the west for a family of four is quite low. In the US it is around $20,000 or 600,000 baht a year. Strange you think otherwise. HmmтАж

Hardly strange: you made no previous reference to any "family of four" and in the US the official poverty level for an adult individual is officially US$10,400 a year - approximately 325,000 baht. Hmm...



My Thai friend who is going to school here in the US describes his family as middle class. His father makes about 40,000 baht a month. He did not grow up with lots of foreign friends, etcтАж.

As your friend is doing a phd and you refer to graduates, advanced degrees, etc, I presume you are actually referring to universities and not schools; maybe you could enlighten us as to how your friend comes to be studying for a phd in linguistics, in the US, without having previously made any foreign contacts or friends; also, while it may not be directly relevant to this thread, it would be interesting to know how you friend is paying for his phd and his time in the US, as it is clearly well beyond his father's means,

My disagreement with the original post was primarily because I considered that "middle and upper class" Thai have ample opportunity to mix with and meet similar farangs in business, socially and, when younger, at school and university overseas or at international schools. To suggest that, in general, they either need or are likely to make "a farang contact or friend" in the way HC described is bordering on the ridiculous. You clearly do not agree, even though your friend is doing exactly what I described - meeting similar farangs at university overseas.

Are you seriously saying that the only way that some "middle and upper class Thai" can make "a farang contact or friend" is as HC described - by repeatedly bumping into farangs in public with their groin? If so, we will have to agree to disagree and I will leave you and HC to carry on generalising - maybe that is part of the "American culture" which I do not understand.

[kittyboy]

introducing "even the middle and upper class" he has totally changed any reference to "most Thai", inferring that "middle and upper class"

It did not totally change the reference for me.

Maybe if you had read / quoted the complete sentence, instead of omitting (... inferring that "middle and upper class"...) Thai are likely to be looking for "a farang contact or friend" in a "pretty overt" manner" you would have noticed the change - or maybe not.



what is middle class in thailand? 500,000 - 600,000 baht a year? That is the poverty level for most western countries" - think again.


I have thought again and the poverty level in the west for a family of four is quite low. In the US it is around $20,000 or 600,000 baht a year. Strange you think otherwise. HmmтАж

Hardly strange: you made no previous reference to any "family of four" and in the US the official poverty level for an adult individual is officially US$10,400 a year - approximately 325,000 baht. Hmm...



My Thai friend who is going to school here in the US describes his family as middle class. His father makes about 40,000 baht a month. He did not grow up with lots of foreign friends, etcтАж.

As your friend is doing a phd and you refer to graduates, advanced degrees, etc, I presume you are actually referring to universities and not schools; maybe you could enlighten us as to how your friend comes to be studying for a phd in linguistics, in the US, without having previously made any foreign contacts or friends; also, while it may not be directly relevant to this thread, it would be interesting to know how you friend is paying for his phd and his time in the US, as it is clearly well beyond his father's means,

My disagreement with the original post was primarily because I considered that "middle and upper class" Thai have ample opportunity to mix with and meet similar farangs in business, socially and, when younger, at school and university overseas or at international schools. To suggest that, in general, they either need or are likely to make "a farang contact or friend" in the way HC described is bordering on the ridiculous. You clearly do not agree, even though your friend is doing exactly what I described - meeting similar farangs at university overseas.

Are you seriously saying that the only way that some "middle and upper class Thai" can make "a farang contact or friend" is as HC described - by repeatedly bumping into farangs in public with their groin? If so, we will have to agree to disagree and I will leave you and HC to carry on generalising - maybe that is part of the "American culture" which I do not understand.


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Ooohhh... Just as I predicted a point by poin rebuttal --- Damn... you are just sooooooo smart.

I did read the statement and it did not change the meaning... As I said petty people focus on petty things.

Yes it is strange that you do not seem to see that the poverty level in most Western countries is about the level of middle class in developing nations like Thailand -- hmm.... very strange.

Ah... now my friend is in the US studying on the government of thailand's money. He did not grow up with foreign friend as you and other have suggested that most middle class thais do. When he got older he sought out western friends... just as the original poster suggested. My friend is doing exactly the opposite of what you described. He had to seek out western contact. I saw recent pictures of his brothers wedding - there was not a farang in the wedding or among the guests. There must have been several hundred people there.

My problem with people like you is that you put words or read intent into other peoples writing.... And yes I will state absolutely that my friend had to seek out western contacts and ended seeking western boyfriends.

My friends experience is exactly at odds with your description of middle class thai experiences.

Now I again suspect that you will write back with a point by point rebuttal showing us again just how damn smart you are and how you disagree with my friends experiences because you just know a hell of a lot more he could know - even though these are his experiences.

Yes it is strange that you do not seem to see that the poverty level in most Western countries is about the level of middle class in developing nations like Thailand -- hmm.... very strange.

Nothing strange at all - you have simply mis-read/not read my post. Poverty level in the USA is officially set at $10,400 per year, per person; in urban Thailand that would be "lower middle class" as far as income level is concerned. I do not dispute that, although it is not what you originally posted. Thailand is not a developing nation, it is a newly industrialised country.


He did not grow up with foreign friend as you and other have suggested that most middle class thais do.

"most" is the key word you have missed. You have also missed "middle and upper class" Thai have ample opportunity to mix with and meet similar farangs in business, socially and, when younger, at school and university overseas or at international schools.


When he got older he sought out western friends... just as the original poster suggested.

What, by going up to farangs he had never met before in the street and repeatedly bumping into them with his groin? You are sure that is what he told you?


My friend is doing exactly the opposite of what you described. He had to seek out western contact.

So he is not meeting "similar farangs .... at university overseas", which is exactly what I described.


My problem with people like you is that you put words or read intent into other peoples writing....

"my problem with people like you is that" you write rubbish, which you change as it suits you, based on someone else's experience not your own, which you misinterpret to suit whatever point you are trying to make, and then complain on the grounds that what you wrote / said was not what you meant. Are you related to any notable American politicians?


My friends experience is exactly at odds with your description of middle class thai experiences.

So he is not meeting "similar farangs .... at university overseas", which is exactly what I described. (Sorry to repeat this, but maybe you missed it the other times).


Now I again suspect that you will write back with a point by point rebuttal showing us again just how damn smart you are and how you disagree with my friends experiences because you just know a hell of a lot more he could know - even though these are his experiences.

Wrong. I have no disagreement at all with your friend's experiences, but I do have with your view of them - unless, of course, he is having to "seek out western contact" by going up to farangs he has never met before in the street and repeatedly bumping into them with his groin, and this is indeed normal practice for upper and middle class Thais, which is the point I initially disagreed with; if so, I stand corrected. If not - bye-bye

Yes it is strange that you do not seem to see that the poverty level in most Western countries is about the level of middle class in developing nations like Thailand -- hmm.... very strange.

Nothing strange at all - you have simply mis-read/not read my post. Poverty level in the USA is officially set at $10,400 per year, per person; in urban Thailand that would be "lower middle class" as far as income level is concerned. I do not dispute that, although it is not what you originally posted. Thailand is not a developing nation, it is a newly industrialised country.


He did not grow up with foreign friend as you and other have suggested that most middle class thais do.

"most" is the key word you have missed. You have also missed "middle and upper class" Thai have ample opportunity to mix with and meet similar farangs in business, socially and, when younger, at school and university overseas or at international schools.


When he got older he sought out western friends... just as the original poster suggested.

What, by going up to farangs he had never met before in the street and repeatedly bumping into them with his groin? You are sure that is what he told you?


My friend is doing exactly the opposite of what you described. He had to seek out western contact.

So he is not meeting "similar farangs .... at university overseas", which is exactly what I described.


My problem with people like you is that you put words or read intent into other peoples writing....

"my problem with people like you is that" you write rubbish, which you change as it suits you, based on someone else's experience not your own, which you misinterpret to suit whatever point you are trying to make, and then complain on the grounds that what you wrote / said was not what you meant. Are you related to any notable American politicians?


My friends experience is exactly at odds with your description of middle class thai experiences.

So he is not meeting "similar farangs .... at university overseas", which is exactly what I described. (Sorry to repeat this, but maybe you missed it the other times).


Now I again suspect that you will write back with a point by point rebuttal showing us again just how damn smart you are and how you disagree with my friends experiences because you just know a hell of a lot more he could know - even though these are his experiences.

Wrong. I have no disagreement at all with your friend's experiences, but I do have with your view of them - unless, of course, he is having to "seek out western contact" by going up to farangs he has never met before in the street and repeatedly bumping into them with his groin, and this is indeed normal practice for upper and middle class Thais, which is the point I initially disagreed with; if so, I stand corrected. If not - bye-bye

[kittyboy]

Yes it is strange that you do not seem to see that the poverty level in most Western countries is about the level of middle class in developing nations like Thailand -- hmm.... very strange.

Nothing strange at all - you have simply mis-read/not read my post. Poverty level in the USA is officially set at $10,400 per year, per person; in urban Thailand that would be "lower middle class" as far as income level is concerned. I do not dispute that, although it is not what you originally posted. Thailand is not a developing nation, it is a newly industrialised country.


He did not grow up with foreign friend as you and other have suggested that most middle class thais do.

"most" is the key word you have missed. You have also missed "middle and upper class" Thai have ample opportunity to mix with and meet similar farangs in business, socially and, when younger, at school and university overseas or at international schools.


When he got older he sought out western friends... just as the original poster suggested.

What, by going up to farangs he had never met before in the street and repeatedly bumping into them with his groin? You are sure that is what he told you?


My friend is doing exactly the opposite of what you described. He had to seek out western contact.

So he is not meeting "similar farangs .... at university overseas", which is exactly what I described.


My problem with people like you is that you put words or read intent into other peoples writing....

"my problem with people like you is that" you write rubbish, which you change as it suits you, based on someone else's experience not your own, which you misinterpret to suit whatever point you are trying to make, and then complain on the grounds that what you wrote / said was not what you meant. Are you related to any notable American politicians?


My friends experience is exactly at odds with your description of middle class thai experiences.

So he is not meeting "similar farangs .... at university overseas", which is exactly what I described. (Sorry to repeat this, but maybe you missed it the other times).


Now I again suspect that you will write back with a point by point rebuttal showing us again just how damn smart you are and how you disagree with my friends experiences because you just know a hell of a lot more he could know - even though these are his experiences.

Wrong. I have no disagreement at all with your friend's experiences, but I do have with your view of them - unless, of course, he is having to "seek out western contact" by going up to farangs he has never met before in the street and repeatedly bumping into them with his groin, and this is indeed normal practice for upper and middle class Thais, which is the point I initially disagreed with; if so, I stand corrected. If not - bye-bye


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Oooo... Just as I predicted another point by point rebuttal -

I am so glad you finally came to my point of view that the poverty level in the west is about the level of the middle class in thailand -- you are coming along nicely.

Now that you have agreed that the thai middle class includes those with the income of about 400,00 baht where are they going to meet westerners? socially and in business circles? probably not - As you can see you are the one being ridiculous.

and yes my friend did go out and bump and grind agains westerners... he is a bit of a slut. sigh... but not with me. So you do stand corrected...you were wrong... now just accept that ... it might be cathartic for you.

Oooo... now again I want the point by point rebuttal. Come on now.. you know you will not feel complete untill you give me the full weight of your superior knowledge... I want my rebuttal!!!