Planning my first trip..experienced advice much appreciated!

Hi

I've been reading this forum for a little while as part of my ongoing research. I'm planning to take a trip to Thailand for the first time in October this year. I know I have plenty of time to plan, but wondered if I might get some advice from you guys on various issues that will help me with my planning!

Here's my plans:

Stay 3 days BKK
Stay 7 days Chang Mai
Stay 7 days Pattaya
Stay 7 days Koh Samui
Stay 7 days BKK

Do you think that's a good plan to get an overview? I've got a month or so and want to make the most of it and experience as much as possible. I'm planning to get internal flights and/or taxis to travel inbetween the various places. Basically, I'm not sure whether I'll prefer some parts to others and, therefore, I know that I'll wish I had more time in certain places etc - but I'm prepared to take that risk on the basis that I'm well planned for my first visit and that I get a good idea of what I like for next time!

My budget for the trip is:

Flights (from UK-BKK) - ┬г600
Internal Flights - ┬г200
Insurance - ┬г50
Accom - ┬г1100
Spending Money - ┬г800

Is that sensible? I had hoped to keep it under ┬г2k but that seems difficult. I know my accommodation budget is high but it is based on hotels similar to Tartawan in BKK. I want to be comfortable for my first visit and, as I'm away for a month, I'd like to have somewhere nice as I don't plan to be out every single night. In addition, I'm not planning on spending too much on Money Boys but rather meeting locals (I'm in my late 20s) and I'd like a nice place to be with them rather than a quick shag pad.

Aside from budget, I'd really appreciate help with the following questions if you have any experience of the issues!

- Is the Tartawan ok? Feedback seems to be very good. Any other suggestions for somewhere similar (also without joiners fee preferably!) that is a little cheaper? Location and comfortable-ness is a priority but apart from that I'm not too worried about pools etc. A nice breakfast is a plus!

- What about Chang Mai, Pattaya and Koh Samui for accommodation? There seems to be lots of 1000-1500 bhat per night places with mixed reviews - anything a little more that I can be sure is nice? Very mixed reviews here so I'd appreciate any suggestions on hotels to consider.

- Is ┬г800 spending money enough for a month? Bear in mind I am not going to be getting money boys every night (maybe three or four times over the whole trip, dependent on how many guys I meet...) but do want to splurge on a couple of elephant trips and being shown round, nice food eating out most nights, laundry, drinks 4/5 times a week, a couple of massages etc.

- How about my plan for places to visit? Am I missing anything? I know I've avoided Phuket - but I think I can manage without seeing there.

- Should I book absolutely everything in advance my first time (internal flights and accom) or can I get away with not doing so on the basis that I can be flexible about staying in a certain place for a little longer if I like it.

- Is October a good time to visit? Or should I wait until January?

- Will I be ok on my own? It's the first time I've holidayed without friends and I'm worried about being a little bored of my own company after a while!

I'd really appreciate your expert advice on the above if you have time to make a first-timer have a better trip and get things planned in advance!

Thanks very much
Dave

- What about Chang Mai, Pattaya and Koh Samui for accommodation? There seems to be lots of 1000-1500 bhat per night places with mixed reviews - anything a little more that I can be sure is nice? Very mixed reviews here so I'd appreciate any suggestions on hotels to consider.

Thanks very much
Dave

Hi Dave:

For Pattaya - check out our website at www.asian-escapes.com (http://www.asian-escapes.com) we offer serviced apartments in the price range you're talking about. View Talay 5 Condo is a great location - located right on Dongtan Gay beach. 2 minutes walk to the beach. At night you can go to Jomtien Complex next door or take a 10 minutes baht bus ride into Boyz Town or Sunnee Plaza. Staying in a service apartment gives you the freedom of having your own place to stay. Our units do get booked early so if you see something you like please book it asap.


For Chiang Mai - I highly recommend PJ's Place http://www.pjs-place.com/ - Great English Breakfast, Great location, and great hosts.

Hi Dave,

I've been to Pattaya / Bangkok during the high and low seasons and have had a great time either way.

In Pattaya, I usually stay at the Ambience hotel in Boyztown, which is central and convenient. While in Bangkok, I'm usually at the Nana complex where the girl bars are located.

As far as your budget, I somehow manage to spend roughly 4 to 5 thousand US dollars on each trip -- possibly because I love both the thai women & men, equally!

IтАЩd prefer reading in my native language, because my knowledge of your languange is no so well. But it was interesting! Look for some my links:

{spam merchant - jinks}

Your total days are 31 days. You are over stay after 30 days so be careful how you count the days. Your time table sounds good tho as 7 days in each place gives you enought time without rushing. Just search the back pages in the forums for advice on different places to stay and visit.

Your overall plan seems to be spot on. My only comment is that Thailand is a country the really only comes to life after the sun goes down. You seem to be planning on a site seeing during the day. At night you will be visiting night markets, discos, saunas, shows and bars that only happen at night, so you most likely will be spending almost no time in your hotel except to shower, change and sleep...and maybe a little sex. You also state that you want to meet the local people and the night is when this is most likely going to happen.

I would down grade all of my hotel choices, which will give you much more money to spend on fun things or to save for your next trip. I have stayed at the Tartawan...and outside of the fact that it is a gay hotel it has nothing special to offer for the price; in fact I consider it to grossly overpriced for what you get. Tourist/business class hotels will say nothing about who bring back to your room..so don't be worried about bringing a boy back to the room. In the last ten years I have never had a hotel even bat an eye at who came back to my room with me. The issue of joiner fees has never come up in any hotel that I have stayed at. I understand that the high end hotels don't want sex workers brought back to their hotels, but I have bought boys back to the Holiday Inn on Silom with out a word being said. I think the issue of joiner fees come up with old drunks bringing boys or girls that look like their grandchildren back to the hotel. In Bangkok I stay at the Trinity Silom. Here is the link http://www.r24.org/hotels.thaivisa.com/ ... y/details/ (http://www.r24.org/hotels.thaivisa.com/bangkok/trinity/details/)

If you are concerned about traveling alone with the money to save by down grading hotels you can hire a boy to spend your vacation with. Often money boys are only thought of in terms of sex, but many guys vacationing in Thailand hire a boy for their entire trip or a new boy in each city. If you chose to do that you will have a companion, translator, tour guide, negotiator, and someone who may well become a long term friend. If this idea interest you just ask the mamasan at any of the bars that you visit to introduce you to any of their boys that speak English reasonably well and might be interested in spending a few days with you. Don't feel pressured to take the first boy that you meet...talk and give him a tip for his time. Shop about for a day or two and I think that you will find that these money boys are for the most part really good guys just earning a living. It does take a bit of time to give up ones western view of sex workers, but this is Thailand so the boys don't carry the cultural baggage that they carry in the west.

You can easily book your internal travel once you are here in Thailand. As you meet new people and see things you can adjust your schedule.

In Pattaya I would avoid Boyz Town it has become a tourist trap and a place for straight tourist to stare at the gay people. I suspect you would not care for Boyz Town after a couple of drinks. Think about staying at the San Suk Guest house and spa or one of the smaller tourist hotels like M P Mansion both of which are 5 minutes from both town and Jomtien Beach.

Good luck: I'm sure that you will have a great time.

Here's my plans:

Stay 3 days BKK
Stay 7 days Chang Mai
Stay 7 days Pattaya
Stay 7 days Koh Samui
Stay 7 days BKK
Dave
My only suggestion for that itinerary is to forget Koh Samui - it's very expensive and highly over-rated and the gay scene is no-where near comparable with the other places you mention, especially for a 7 day stay. Much better to go to Phuket and stay at Patong Beach - there is a close-knit gay area around the Paradise complex which includes several hotels/guesthouses (and a lot of gay gogo and drinking bars).

I also think you will struggle to stay within your budget of ┬г2000 unless of course you want to spend a lot of the time living like a celibate monk! I would seriously consider doubling your ┬г800 for spending money. You might also go slightly over the ┬г200 you have earmarked for internal flights. I usually budget for ┬г2750 to ┬г3500 for a 28 day trip and that allows for NOT paying for 'money boys' every night.

Also as Luvthai has noted your 'visa-free' immigration entry is 30 days - anything over that (even by a few hours) requires you to get a visa in advance.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Hi

My budget for the trip is:

Flights (from UK-BKK) - ┬г600
Internal Flights - ┬г200
Insurance - ┬г50
Accom - ┬г1100
Spending Money - ┬г800

Is that sensible? I had hoped to keep it under ┬г2k but that seems difficult. - Is ┬г800 spending money enough for a month?
Thanks very much
Dave

yes..just add

Drinks/lunch LO'B 800.oo

[HawaiiBoy]

My first time was over ten years ago and I sure wish I had even half the information I know now about how to have a good vacation in Thailand. 1. Don't try to see it all. Plan to come back and spend time in the places you enjoy. I now spend 3 separate months a year in Thailand and try to take a special trip each time (Angkor Wat, a new town I haven't seen, or time for shopping in Chiang Mai before Christmas).

Most of the time I spend in Pattaya at the beach with my bf of 8 years and other farangs I have come to know over the years. I agree about hotel rooms...no need to spend a lot of money. There are much better ways to spend your holiday cash and frankly, the boys are not impressed when you spend as much on one night in a hotel as they make in a week or two weeks.

I plan on $1,000 US per week of my stay but that includes shopping for both myself, my bf, and his family in the village. I think your internal travel budget is too low...but you can verify your air fares on line. Plan on all air fares to be going up due to fuel prices. The suggestion of looking for a local to accompany you whether for each city or for the trip is a good one. I have had great experience with this in the past and while it costs, I see SO much more and find out SO MUCH MORE about Thailand. The going rate is 1000 baht a day plus their expenses. I have also hired a lad with a vehicle and spend the week driving around northern Thailand. Great experience. I can recommend such a contact in Chiang Mai that is a great tour guide with a late model SUV. Ben at ‏benjirak@yahoo.com. While he is gay, he would not be expecting a relationship to be part of the tour arrangements unless, of course, you two hit it off. But he would know everyplace to take you.

If you want to chat more, I would be glad to give hotel recommendations, etc. Send me a private message.

[bing]

Congrats on your great sounding trip. I am a vet of 15 years of visits to Thailand. Your trip sounds fine. There is nothing like Bangkok for the first time. A few observations on your trip. You will probably spend more than you seem to plan for. Someone suggested paying less for the hotels, I like a nice place to stay, especially if I have not been to the territory before. I would think you will meet Thai guys at bars that you will want to spend time with. This is Thailand and not like any other place in the world. Since you have time to plan, perhaps look at the Rose, Pinnacle or even Malaysia Hotel. (Undoubtedly the Malaysia suggestion will be controversial) It is perfectly fine and clean and has a nice pool. Also, unless you really want quiet time, skip Ko Samui Island. In Pattaya I see you were pointed to the Jomtien area. While I love the beach and the eating places at Jomtien, the fun spots are Sunee and Boystown. If you were thinking of Ambiance or Cafe Royalle, you won't go wrong. I have enjoyed both, but now I have been staying at Howards Guest House. Again not everyone likes it as it not high end, but has the friendliness many of us like. Punya, the owner will watch out for you and make sure you have suggestions on where to go. He also is the owner of Sansuk that was suggested already. It is a bit off the main road and late at night might be a challenge getting to it. Your plan for Pattaya is good, I would spend the extra days at Pattaya, but I do like the beach during the day, and stake out my territory at Rits chairs. Then love going to supper with a friend and finally running the streets of Sunee area as the night goes on. That is why since you are in Thailand for a month, don't cut your enjoyment of the trip by not putting enough in your budget for spending. Why you plan on meeting only a few Thai guys, I have a dime to bet, you will spend a lot more time with them than you are thinking. I am no seer, but feel my dime will be safe in that bet. Please let the forum know how your trip budget makes out. Start by making a double what you think you will be spending, and you will be fine. Then if you don't spend it all, you can put in the bank for the next trip. He He.

I would second the suggestion of staying at Howard's. Great idea! I had forgotten about Howard's.

I stay in some of the cheapest accommodation going, am not a heavy drinker and usually stay in one place as opposed to travelling around Thailand, and yet I still manage to get through ┬г800 in about 10-14 days, although I've no idea how.

You can definitely make ┬г800 last for a month and still do everything you plan to do, but unless you're particularly budget conscious, you might be surprised having come home to find that you've spent at least double that. Having a good heart and a bit of empathy mixed with a conscious that doesn't easily forgive you can be an expensive combination of emotions in Thailand.

I think I've seen the following place recommended by a few people, and it looks nice:

http://pjs-place.com/

[allieb]

It all sounds too much like an organized package tour. My own view is as its you first time don't commit yourself to a definite itinerary. Arrive in Bangkok and stay at a reasonable hotel in Silom. Book for 3 days and extend if you want. 3 days will be a good amount of time to check out other hotels in the area if you are not happy with your first choice. You can then extend or move. The next step is to take a Taxi 1,300 baht or an air conditioned bus from Ekami bus terminal every 20 Min's to Pattaya 120 Baht.

There are plenty of good cheap hotels in Pattaya you will either love it or hate it, its that kind of place. As for Chang Mai and Koh Samui play that by ear there are plenty of options available at local travel agencies to visit these places but as Snowkat said Koh Samui is expensive and not much in there way of life when you get there, unless you plan to unwind with a lovely boy in your arms

You may find that most sex available is for money. Its a case of redistribution of wealth we have money and they don't. It isn't about being young or old

I think you risk exceeding your spending money. Currently at a total of 800 pounds, you're only allowing about 25 pounds a day - that's just 1500 baht. It can be done if you're not much of a drinker and if you eat Thai food at places the locals eat. But don't be surprised if, since this is your first time in Thailand, you're more comfortable in touristy or expat locales, and looking for western food, with prices to match. Also, some tourist sites charge admission and they think nothing of fleecing foreigners.

For example, when you're in Chiangmai, you may want to join a day trip into the hills. These start at 1200 baht per head per day... and you still have to pay for this and that.

To allow for overspending, you can cut back on your hotel budget. Go for something in the 1200 - 1500 baht a day range instead of the Tarntawan grade. Effectively, it means swapping your hotel and spending budget. 800 pounds for hotel and 1100 pounds for spending.

Like others have said, forget Koh Samui. I was almost bored to death after 48 hours when I was there. Substitute with Phuket if you wish. I think you will save a considerable sum avoiding the flight to Samui, let alone the pricey hotels there.

Your internal flights budget is also too low, but one solution would be to take a long-distance bus to Chiangmai rather than fly. Break the journey into 2 parts: Bangkok - Sukhothai (where there are ruins worth seeing), then 2 days later Sukothai - Chiangmai. Choose any other town (e.g. Lopburi - more ruins and plenty of monkeys) in between for a stopover on the way back to Bangkok, and stop for one night. It'll give you a feel for small-town Thailand, which is quite different from the touristy places your have laid out for yourself.

[jinks]

- Is October a good time to visit? Or should I wait until January?
- Will I be ok on my own? It's the first time I've holidayed without friends and I'm worried about being a little bored of my own company after a while!
I'd really appreciate your expert advice on the above if you have time to make a first-timer have a better trip and get things planned in advance!
Thanks very much
Dave

Dave,

1. Wait until November or early December - late December is peak hotel prices.
2. You won't be on your own for long, on my first trip 15 or so years ago I was alone for the first two hours :)
3. Specific questions answered by PM.
4. Hit my www button below to see what awaits you :clown:
5. Welcome to the board.
6. Look at the top of the Page.. Calendar... when you decide make an entry.. We will then know where you will be.
7. Other posters look to see where to avoid me :)

My next trip is
December
14 - 18 Club17 Phuket http://www.cluboneseven.net/
19 - 24 Koh Samui The Island Resort & Spa http://www.theislandsamui.com/
25 - 28 Up Country for a family Christmas.
29 - 3 Jan The Posiedon Jomtien Beach http://www.poseidon-pattaya.com/

My planned costs are non-existent. I travel by ATM - When my pocket is empty I refill it.
I expect I will spend in excess of ┬г2k on the above.
I have already paid for all my flights ┬г2100.
Business Class except between the mainland and Koh Samui (Bangkok Air don't do it).
Boys - Booze - Banquets and Baccy about ┬г1500 more.

The nice thing about my trips is that I don't know the total cost until mid January.... THAT IS THE TIME TO WORRY :compress:

Dave,

lots of sound advice above, and on previous threads if you use the search facility, but I think you are being considerably over-optomistic if you expect to be "comfortable" for a month for ┬г2,750 including your flights.

Flights (from UK-BKK) - ┬г600 - presumably this is one-way?

Internal Flights - ┬г200 - 5 flights, plus taxis; not enough - check airfares on the internet

Insurance - ┬г50 - this will not include cover for your elephant treks, etc, and will probably not cover any outpatient costs

Accom - ┬г1100 - "comfortable" ("adequate" in Koh Samui!)

Spending Money - ┬г800 - 1,600 baht a day for everything, including "splurge on a couple of elephant trips and being shown round, nice food eating out most nights, laundry, drinks 4/5 times a week, a couple of massages etc." Plus, transport, guides, etc - forget it, unless you want to eat and get by strictly on a budget and are happy to spend the day sitting on the beach or in the park. On a first, "comfortable" holiday this is totally unrealistic unless you are in backpacker territory. Double it, particularly if you want company.

I'm not planning on spending too much on Money Boys but rather meeting locals (I'm in my late 20s) and I'd like a nice place to be with them rather than a quick shag pad. .... I am not going to be getting money boys every night (maybe three or four times over the whole trip, dependent on how many guys I meet...) Don't delude yourself - while you may appeal to some of those posting here, to most of the Thais you are likely to meet on a first trip you are "just another farang" and you will be treated as such. You may be lucky, but if you are only prepared to pay for "company" 3 or 4 times, in all probability that is about as much as you will get. Even if there is a queue of attractive strangers fighting over your body in London, what makes you think the same thing will happen here? Dream on.

Is October a good time to visit? Or should I wait until January? October is usually the middle of the rainy season, which could make your elephant treks, the beach, etc, a washout (literally!). January is usually dry and cool and is far more pleasant for those not used to the tropics.

Will I be ok on my own? It's the first time I've holidayed without friends and I'm worried about being a little bored of my own company after a while! I would worry more about being an innocent abroad, particularly if you are looking for "free" guides and company.

Good luck - on that budget you may need it!

I agree with Allieb dont try and cram too much in on your first trip. As an old timer I avoid Bangkok like the plague (hot,polluted and expensive) although no visitor to LOS should miss seeing the Royal Palace or going for a trip trip on the mighty Chao Phraya river and of course the sights and smells of Patpong but 3 days is enough. Its very easy to get to Pattaya by bus, Ekami has a skytrain as well as bus station. For the equivalent of ┬г2 bus fare and ┬г2 baht bus you are at your hotel in Pattaya.
As has been said before Howards has got a good reputation as has the big new hotel on Soi 15 round the corner (600 bht a night). Generally your budget for accomodation is a bit over the top. Bkk is expensive but for the equivalent of ┬г15 a night in Pattaya you would be spoilt for choice.
A trip up to Chang Mai is a good idea and pretty straight forward. We went up in January for a 5 day break. Went on line and booked flights with Air Asia ┬г50 each return and booked accommodation at the Montri Hotel right in the centre of town for ┬г15 for a three bedded room (we took a little something with us). The hotel even has a free bus that will pick you up and drop you of at the airport. While there we did all the touristy things hired a tuk tuk for the afternoon for ┬г10 and for that we were driven all over the place (monkey show, snake farm etc) and up to the temple on the hill which is quite something, the view from the top is amazing.
As for sex remember TIT this is Thailand. Even if you look like a young Leonardo de Caprio with the body of Christiano Ronaldo and an appendage like Errol Flynn you will still have to get your purse out one way or another.
Have a good trip.

[colmx]

In addition, I'm not planning on spending too much on Money Boys but rather meeting locals (I'm in my late 20s)


Hi Dave
As per most of the other comments above - you get nothing for nothing in thailand

I first visited Thailand in my Mid 20's and found lots of free fun in the saunas... but pretty difficult to find "sane" fun of the short time variety...

By sane I mean guys who are not:
-Stalkers
-Desperately looking for a long term Bf
-Out to get revenge on someone
-Looking for a trophy!

In order to impress the average Thai boy you have to be seen as having a "good heart"... and a good heart==being generous or being what Thais refer to as a "sport"

Of course there is loads of free sex & entertainment available in Thailand (even in Pattaya these days!) But if you are looking for more than a quick fumble in the sauna andlong nights alone in your hotel room...I think you should strongly consider doubling your ┬г800 spending budget.

[Michael]

I must be one of the few guys here who isn't rolling in money.

You should be able to get a return flight for ┬г600, (I usually pay less) but you will have to do some serious searching (trawling) around websites and it helps to be flexible on dates. The BA site is usefull as it gives an indication of which dates are cheaper, but it's certainly not worth the ┬г200 - ┬г600 premium to travel with them.

I think that you need to downgrade your hotel budget. I'd just book the first couple of nights in a smart hotel and then take a tour of local guesthouses. They will all be more than happy to show you their rooms and you might be surprised at the standard that some of them offer. Unless you're in Bangkok at Christmas or New Year, you really won't have a problem finding somewhere to stay

Saving on your hotel budget would allow you to spend more on general expenses. You've chosen to stay at major tourist areas (not a bad idea for a first visit) and so prices are not cheap.

[ceejay]

Hi Dave

First things first. You will have a great time in Thailand. I was over fifty before I visited - and it was the first time I had travelled independently too - and I had a great time there. I have been back, and am going back again this November.

Lots of good advice above - from people who know the country better than I do, so I won't try to add too much to it. A couple of things you might find helpful, though:

I buy my air tickets through Airline Network. This is an online ticket sales venture with, amonst others, British Airways, Quantas, Thai Airways and Eva Air participating. That pretty well covers the bases for cheap direct flights:

http://www.airline-network.co.uk/

I checked today, and you can get return flights (direct both ways) covering the time period you have in mind for ┬г614 (Eva Air) or ┬г639 (Thai). You can get flights with transfers for as little as ┬г500 (Qatar Airways) but that turns a 12 hour flight into a 16 or even 20 hour one. I strongly recommend getting a direct flight - it's well worth the extra hundred quid and gets your holiday off to a much better start.

I would buy the ticket soon - they have a limited number of these cheap tickets, and the price goes up the closer you get to the time you want to fly. The last 2 times I visited, I bought the ticket in April, as it happens. But - you must settle on your dates of travel first. These cheap tickets usually cannot be changed, or not at any reasonable cost. Bear in mind you may want to take the advice above, and put your plans back to November, to avoid the rainy season. Also, as mentioned by others, if you stick with the plan to spend 31 days in Thailand you absolutely must get a visa in advance. If you get a 30 day tourist visa on arrival, then you must be out of the country within 30 days - that is strictly enforced.

Be a little flexible in your travel dates. Travelling one or both ways on a Saturday, for example, can mean a cheaper ticket.

Travel insurance. You should be able to do it for ┬г30 or so. I use Money Supermarket:
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/

A tip: look at the annual multi trip insurance. It literally only costs a pound or two more than single trip - unless you are quite sure you are not travelling again in the next year, it is well worth it. Important exclusions for you to check are the maximum allowed length of a trip - you need more than the usual 30 days, if you are going to spend 30 actually in Thailand, because you will spend another 2 travelling. You need the cover door-to-door. Also check the "hazardous activities" exclusions. Some do, and some do not exclude elephant riding, for example. Also check carefully exactly what exclusions apply to motorcycle accidents. You may want to hire one (if you are brave!) and if you do, you need to be sure your medical insurance will hold. Even if you don't, check that you are allowed to be on a motor cycle at all - there are lots of motorcycle taxis in Thailand, and you may want to use them to get around.

You might consider running the insurance from the day before you book the air ticket. Most will insure you against having to cancel your holiday - then you can claim for the cost of the ticket.

Good luck with your trip. You will have a wonderful time, I am sure

[Dick]

Hi Dave,

Programme
As advised elsewhere I would drop Koh Samui and instead plumb for Phuket... except that you need to visit between November and March to avoid heavy rains. Lots of excursions available - see canoeing into the mango lagoons for example, and Fantasea is a must! Jinks is the Phuket expert and can likely recommend favourite places to stay although we all have our preferences depending on budget. The Rendez Vous hotel in the Paradise complex is one of the good choices as the owner will look after you and steer you right on a first visit. Plus you're relatively close to the 'action' and no problems with boys back to your room.

I would also split your visit to Chaing Mai and perhaps instead base your trip North in Chaing-Rai which would seem closer for what you want to do. Spoil yourself and stay at the Dusit - bargain value for money for the standard you get, and you are very well placed for excursions ~ Golden Triangle, hill tribes, Mekong River trips, elephant camp, elephant treks, etc which the hotel can organise with an official guide. A days elephant trek in the region of about 3,500B and other excursions in the 2-3K region with guide as best I remember. If you want to 'off' a boy in town there are plenty of short time hotels to be had - the boys will sort it. Then transfer for a day or two to Chiang Mai for what it has to offer.

Bangkok
Stranger in a strange town! Forget the other well meant advice re Bangkok accommodation on your arrival, and spend your intitial 3 days at the Tarntawan. It's secure and they will look after you. Friendly faces and free advice while you get accustomed to it all. Let this hotel by your yardstick against which you compare the others. The Tarntawan is 'classless'; it's gay class ~ the boys will ask you where you stay, what you earn, how much your shirt, etc to try to peg you in the hierachy as they do any Thai person to assess their status. Tarntawan earns points, especially as the staff treat the boys with the utmost respect ~ they enjoy staying there (with you)!
On your return visit to Bangkok, then by all means try other accommodations. A guest house such as Vincents located opposite the Pinnacle Hotel is a good choice, because Vincent and the staff will again try to help you, unlike some of the morons staffing bigger hotel desks.

Pattaya
Lots of choices but again as a 1st timer to the area, I would go for the Cafe Royale or Ambience, and take this visit as opportunity to check out all the other options also in Sunnee Plaza and Jomtien. Once you're there you'll pick up friends and advice so you can make up your own mind. Howard's by the way isn't anywhere near the top of my list as I (as did some others) found the beds too hard. But initially, stick with either of these Boyz Town hotels from whence you will take your bearings. Pattaya is more liberal when it comes to weather and since its prime offerings are the night life, it doesn't much matter when you visit. Although check the programme - lots of events especially the PGF functions which highlight November/December.

Enough for one post!

[dave_tf-old]

I too would forego some expense on Hotel in favor of spending money. In BKK, consider the Rose Hotel. Though rooms are small, it's been completely remodeled and refitted, and they would likely look at you odd if you DIDN'T bring company back. Aside from Koh Samui (and Phuket which others are encouraging you to visit instead), you'll find accomodation in Chiang Mai and Pattaya to be less expensive than Bangkok for similar grade, so if you want to splurge for a nicer hotel, limit it to those two destinations.

I also think you should not overplan. Travelling within Thailand is easily arranged (and inexpensive) and you may find yourself wishing you had not bolted down your arrangements. Whatever you are comfortable with. If I was planning your trip, I would never buy a RT ticket within Thailand...every time I have, I have regretted it--either from wanting to stay longer or wanting to jaunt earlier. One-way tickets, unlike some places in the world, are typically 1/2 the cost of Round Trip with no premium.

As far as companions go, you might spend some time on the internet seeking friends for areas you wish to visit. I'd say Pattaya is an exception to this rule. It's quite a small city and geared heavily towards tourism and money-boys. I wouldn't think you'd need much of a 'guide' for Pattaya. Although its very possible you might meet a friend not in the trade, it's less likely there than in Bangkok or Chiang Mai.

As another poster said, though, just because they are working in bars does not mean they are often not great people to hang out with. Unless you already know people where you are travelling, you might just as well get used to the notion that company costs money...at the very least it will double your food and entertainment budget.

Certainly if you are OK with spending days and nights alone, you can probably slake any sexual thirsts that will arise during the month without much cost or commitment. Having a few internet contacts before you leave would improve your chances of more involved companionship. You may well find friends where you go, given your age, but they will have thier own jobs and lives--the only difference is 'where' they work. The only garuntee (and it's not iron-clad) is to hire your company.

Random stuff:

Pack light, launder often. Unless you are quite tall or quite large, you can buy clothing in Thailand at very reasonable prices..no need to schlupp your wardrobe across the world. Shopping is not to be missed anywhere you go. Bangkok has a host of great places, since you are there first.

Take at least one rail trip. Bangkok to Chiang Mai is one I'd consider, or the return. Chiang Mai to some near destination is another, as a side trip.

Know where you are going at all times, and insist on getting there--don't be persuaded by anybody you don't know to substitute X shop/restaraunt/bar for Y.

Read up on the culture, and apply what you read. It makes a difference. Learn at least a little Thai. It makes a difference too. Be calm, kind, and reasonably generous and avoid the temptation to become a missionary and you will almost always find that returned to you. When it isn't, avoid anger, mind your money (and your budget), and sanook.

If it were me, I'd wait till January. Even though it's part of the high season, it's unlikely you'd find travel and accomodation difficult. As long as you have reservations during the bleedover from the Christmas/New Years holidays, you should be fine the rest of the month. Rainy season in Thailand means 'late afternoon, evening thunderstorms' rather than light rain all day as you'd know it in the UK, so an October trip isn't a horrible idea, just not as nice as January. In fact, in January Chiang Mai will be quite cool and Bangkok not quite so hot.

I predict a great time for you.

[Bob]

Regarding Chiangmai, there's no doubt that this board (and other gay boards) probably favor PJ's Place the most....so I have no doubt it's a nice place. I've never stayed there.

But, it depends on your preferences. I like to walk and, with respect to Chiangmai, I like to stay in the night market area (Duangtawan, Porn Ping, Riverview Lodge, etc.). You're a block away from the night market and night market there, a couple of blocks from Worarat Market (big flower/vegetable market), a couple of blocks to Narawat Bridge (festival activity is often centered there), close to various stores, and very near a lot of good restaurants. PJ's is near the biggest shopping mall (Kad Suan Kaew, a/k/a Central or "Centran") but, other than that, there's not much within walking distance near there (oh, I suppose you can walk to House of Male which is a few hundred yards south of the mall). As somebody else mentioned, the Montri is about 100 yards from Taipae Gate and at least you have the Sunday market along the street and/or activities occasionally at Taipae Gate).

So, while PJ's is very likely a nice place (but a little more expensive than the Montri or the Porn Ping), you'll end up using tuk tuks and/or baht busses to get just about anywhere. Up to you.

Dave,

I don't quite agree with the other posters here who seem to be taking the position that you must expect to pay commercial rates for company (esp of the erotic nature) while in Thailand.

Since you are still in your 20s, and assuming you're neither a cripple nor michelin man, your experience will thus be quite different from most posters here who tend to be in their 50s and 60s and often overweight.

There are plenty of saunas in Bangkok and 2 reasonably good ones in Chiangmai where you can have some fun. Expect to pay 100 - 250 baht for entry, and a bit more for a drink or two within. You can also meet Thais in dance clubs (though since I hate dance clubs because of noise and smoke, I can't give you up-to-date info on their charges). Like in any country, there's a risk that whoever you meet there may turn out to be a money boy or a love-stalker the morning after, so it's good to be alert, but don't let it make you paranoid about all Thais.

The tricky thing is what happens when you meet someone at a sauna or dance club and agree to meet again elsewhere for a quasi-date. What does such an event imply? Who pays? This is where culture comes in. Do not expect the event to have the kind of meaning or implied arrangements that Western culture has. Throw your assumptions out of the window.

Much depends on whether the guy you have met is middle-class Thai or working-class Thai. Most of the posters here have only limited experience with middle-class Thai, and so their comments actually refer to working-class Thai. Among the working-class, their view of the world is a highly-class-stratified one, and as a foreigner, you are never seen as their equal but as one with a higher station in life. The result is that they expect you to take the lead in making decisions like where to go (If you ever ask them, they tend to answer "up to you") and they expect you to pay the bill.

Middle-class Thais however behave more like Westerners. They may go dutch or they may even insist on settling the bill (they may well be richer than you - just look at the cars they drive). However, they may treat you as a trophy - "See, I have a white boy in tow!" (Assuming you're caucasian, though I accept that just because you're coming from the UK doesn't mean you are). So, be very careful not to get drunk and say things like "I will love you forever" that you're going to regret. As you can see, even the middle-class Thais have a very class-stratified view of the world, except that they may think themselves on top of the heap, and you may cause offence in the most unexpected way.

Oh, one more thing - if you meet anyone in the larger saunas or dance clubs who looks Asian (i.e. East Asian, as opposed to the British understanding of the word "Asian" which means South Asian) - don't assume he's Thai. Many of the ones who look "middle-class" are tourists from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea and Singapore. On some days, they form half the crowd at these places. All kinds of cross-cultural mistakes can happen as a result - just be alert to causing unintended offence and have a sense of humour about it. Needless to say, many will be richer than you, staying in the Marriot and dining in 1,000-baht per head restaurants. A bit of honesty about what you can afford if you're expected to go dutch will help avoid finding yourself in sticky situations.

Stay home and have a wank it's a lot cheaper

Dave

Is the Tartawan hotel ok? ....... yes, it is excellent and right near the action

Is ┬г800 spending money enough for a month? ....... no, you need twice that, as many other posters agree

tip ..... in Pattaya rent a motor scooter - very handy to get around on

tip ...... do not drink the water - bottled water only

[a447]

Hi Dave,
I'm in Bangkok at the moment, having returned today from Pattaya. (I'll be writing a report soon).
Here I am staying at the Rose Hotel and, while not luxury, it is certainly comfortable and right in the middle of the action. No problems whatsoever in bringing a boy back. Lots on this board have commented that the Tartawan is overpriced. I agree.
In Pattaya I stayed at the Ambience Hotel. I THOROUGHLY recommend it. Everything about it was fantastic!
If you take a boy back with you every night, as I do, it becomes VERY expensive in Bangkok. Boys in Pattaya are about half the price! E.g. 1000 baht short time (minimum, I think) here, as opposed to 500 in Pattaya. And even though you may tell yourself that you'll ration the number of boys in favour of a quick wank now and then, once you see what is on offer, you'll have a boy every night - and maybe a quickie during the day, too. :)

... as opposed to 500 in Pattaya.
Obviously someone else on a severely restricted budget!? :geek:

I don't quite agree with the other posters here who seem to be taking the position that you must expect to pay commercial rates for company (esp of the erotic nature) while in Thailand.
Since you are still in your 20s, and assuming you're neither a cripple nor michelin man, your experience will thus be quite different from most posters here who tend to be in their 50s and 60s and often overweight.
There are plenty of saunas in Bangkok and 2 reasonably good ones in Chiangmai where you can have some fun.

Yes, as long as all you want is "a quick fumble in the sauna and long nights alone in your hotel room", as colmx put it. If that is the case, then why bother coming here at all?


Much depends on whether the guy you have met is middle-class Thai or working-class Thai. Most of the posters here have only limited experience with middle-class Thai, and so their comments actually refer to working-class Thai.

How do you know what experience most of the posters here have? You don't. Most comments, in any case, refer to working boys (those working in bars/freelance), which is not synonymous with working class.


Among the working-class, their view of the world is a highly-class-stratified one, and as a foreigner, you are never seen as their equal but as one with a higher station in life.

Only half true - as a farang you are not their equal, but neither do you have "a higher station in life". You are simply not on the same 'status chart' as Thais; later, once they know you, you may be accorded a station (eg farang hi-so or farang kee-nok), but it will be on a farang chart, not a Thai one.


The result is that they expect you to take the lead in making decisions like where to go (If you ever ask them, they tend to answer "up to you") and they expect you to pay the bill.

That is nothing to do with your status, real or imagined - it is because you are paying for a service and so are entitled to make the decisions; if you do not know, they will often be only too happy to advise you! For someone on holiday this may be preferable to waiting for your "middle-class Thai" to finish work before taking you out to a venue of his choice (where, as you rightly point out, you may unknowingly be shown off as the latest trophy / purchase!).


Middle-class Thais however behave more like Westerners. They may go dutch or they may even insist on settling the bill

This is the Thai way (and often the Asian way), nothing to do with behaving like Westerners. All Thais may share a bill, if they are of similar financial status (rich, poor, or in the middle) - they call it "American share". Similarly, if one person is considerably better off than the others they will usually pay the bill and it can cause offence if you try to pay your share (implying they may be unable to do so). You will often be expected to pay the bill if you are better off, but similarly when I have been a guest of Thais who were considerably better off than me they have settled all bills, including hotels (separate bedrooms) - and no, there was no "token farang" or toy boy implication!

Dave, enjoy the holiday, and "don't think too much" (as some would say!).