WATER, WATER EVERYWHERE....ALL THE BOARDS DID SHRINK

I have a couple of questions about tap water in Thailand and hopefully someone in the know has the answers.

#1 It is advised NOT to drink the tap water here in Thailand. Why is that? Bacteria? Chemical pollution? Both?

#2 If the tap water not drinkable, can it safely be used to wash food items that will be consumed?
How about in cooking?

Have discussed with friends and all seem to have differing opinions. Help!!

:cyclopsani:

I once had a mosquito bite on my ankle which became infected. When I went to the pharmacist to get something for it, I was told that it had probably become infected by the water, ie, not covering it when I was in the shower. So I guess that gives an indication of how dirty the water is.

I don't even brush my teeth in it, and if I have to wash anything like drinks glasses, I use the tap water, but then give it a final rinse in clean bottled water. It's impossible to avoid ingesting the water from washed food, as you've no idea how restaurants wash the food before they serve it to you, or where the ice has come from in your drinks. So far though, I've never had any nasty bugs to speak of.

[Smiles]

I don't really think there's an abiding need to go as far as the above reply.

This has worked for me fine for since I've been coming to Thailand (i.e. 9 years now). I've had ocassional minor bouts of the runs (one long one of a week, and three or four 24 hr bouts ... none of which I would say for sure was the water. Frankly, I'd be somewhat more suspicous of food in unclean street stalls ):

Drink only bottled water (cheap here!! 6 pack of 750 ml bottles of water around the corner, 20 baht). Also coffee and tea of course are from bottled.[/*:m:wv0a2ow8]
Brush teeth in tap water. Seems like a very minor risk (see 'the runs' above).[/*:m:wv0a2ow8]
Ice in bars and restaurants is NOT tap water, I have them in my drinks all the time.[/*:m:wv0a2ow8]
Wash dishes in tap water, also rinse them.[/*:m:wv0a2ow8]
Bathe in tap water ... obviously some is ingested, so ... (see 'the runs' above).[/*:m:wv0a2ow8]
Up to you ... but as you can see from the above experience, getting a bit more easy-going on the water "problem" in Thailand has affected me hardly at all. Many may/will disagree with the above I'm sure.

Of course, none of the above holds true for those with compromised immune systems. Those folks have to quite a bit more careful, as they do at home.

Cheers ...

[globalwanderer]

I don't really think there's an abiding need to go as far as the above reply.

This has worked for me fine for since I've been coming to Thailand (i.e. 9 years now). I've had ocassional minor bouts of the runs (one long one of a week, and three or four 24 hr bouts ... none of which I would say for sure was the water. Frankly, I'd be somewhat more suspicous of food in unclean street stalls ):

Drink only bottled water (cheap here!! 6 pack of 750 ml bottles of water around the corner, 20 baht). Also coffee and tea of course are from bottled.[/*:m:1hv1dms4]
Brush teeth in tap water. Seems like a very minor risk (see 'the runs' above).[/*:m:1hv1dms4]
Ice in bars and restaurants is NOT tap water, I have them in my drinks all the time.[/*:m:1hv1dms4]
Wash dishes in tap water, also rinse them.[/*:m:1hv1dms4]
Bathe in tap water ... obviously some is ingested, so ... (see 'the runs' above).[/*:m:1hv1dms4]
Up to you ... but as you can see from the above experience, getting a bit more easy-going on the water "problem" in Thailand has affected me hardly at all. Many may/will disagree with the above I'm sure.

Of course, none of the above holds true for those with compromised immune systems. Those folks have to quite a bit more careful, as they do at home.

Cheers ...

totally agree. Mirrors my approach

I have a couple of questions about tap water in Thailand and hopefully someone in the know has the answers.

#1 It is advised NOT to drink the tap water here in Thailand. Why is that? Bacteria? Chemical pollution? Both?

#2 If the tap water not drinkable, can it safely be used to wash food items that will be consumed?
How about in cooking?

Have discussed with friends and all seem to have differing opinions. Help!!

:cyclopsani:

This same question has been posted on the Gay Thailand message board by "daddydawg". The only answer so far is from the oracle Gaybutton who says:

"Even the water company says not to drink the tap water. I don't know why, but I go by that advice. I really don't want to find out the answer the hard way and bottled water is readily available and very cheap.

I use tap water for showering, brushing my teeth, washing dishes, and washing food items such as fruit. I have never had any problem, no matter where I am in Thailand.

I use only bottled water for cooking. The only exception I make is boiling eggs in tap water. Again, I have never had any kind of a problem."


Bottled water for cooking? We all know that no one is as well informed about things Thai as GB but surely cooking in bottled water is O.T.T.? Maybe I am wrong but I thought boiling the tap water during cooking will kill the bugs :dontknow:

[TrongpaiExpat]

In and around the residential streets of Bangkok there are these water machines. They are reverse osmosis units, about 1B per l. Bacteria is killed by ionization, more effective than chlorine.

My hobby is keeping tropical fish, so I have all the water testing kits. The tap water where I am now is high on chlorine and chloramine, I don't see how much bacteria or parasites could live in it. I have to dechlorinate it for the fish. The kh (calcium hardness) is 4 to 6 ppm, my guess is that the water supply is being buffered with sodium. GH (general hardness is also in the 4 to 6 range. GH is a concern in that some of the elements could be iron, copper or the more dangerous heavy metals. I don't get dangerous reading on any heavy metals but there could be trace amounts, probably from old pipes rather than the water supply.

Those water machines do work. I have tested the water from them and the kh is 0, ph 6.0-- that's pure water.

So, bottom line, don't I drink Bangkok's tap water, no, but it's does not kill the fish as long as I take the chlorine out.

You have to boil water for 20 min to kill microbes but it's will do nothing for lead, other metals or harmful compounds. There are RO units you can buy.

[Diec]

I don't really think there's an abiding need to go as far as the above reply.

This has worked for me fine for since I've been coming to Thailand (i.e. 9 years now). I've had ocassional minor bouts of the runs (one long one of a week, and three or four 24 hr bouts ... none of which I would say for sure was the water. Frankly, I'd be somewhat more suspicous of food in unclean street stalls ):

Drink only bottled water (cheap here!! 6 pack of 750 ml bottles of water around the corner, 20 baht). Also coffee and tea of course are from bottled.[/*:m:217mr5gp]
Brush teeth in tap water. Seems like a very minor risk (see 'the runs' above).[/*:m:217mr5gp]
Ice in bars and restaurants is NOT tap water, I have them in my drinks all the time.[/*:m:217mr5gp]
Wash dishes in tap water, also rinse them.[/*:m:217mr5gp]
Bathe in tap water ... obviously some is ingested, so ... (see 'the runs' above).[/*:m:217mr5gp]
Up to you ... but as you can see from the above experience, getting a bit more easy-going on the water "problem" in Thailand has affected me hardly at all. Many may/will disagree with the above I'm sure.

Of course, none of the above holds true for those with compromised immune systems. Those folks have to quite a bit more careful, as they do at home.

Cheers ...

totally agree. Mirrors my approach

Me too.

My cats drink tap water, I have aquarium fish, and large fish in a pond, never had problems. For drinking we use a filter system attached to the main tap, we renew the filters annually, and we don't have very many problems with our stomachs (we live just outside Bangkok).

Oh pumpkin...I want to lick your pussy tap or no tap!! Are you game???

[TrongpaiExpat]

My cats drink tap water, I have aquarium fish, and large fish in a pond, never had problems. For drinking we use a filter system attached to the main tap, we renew the filters annually, and we don't have very many problems with our stomachs (we live just outside Bangkok).

There a lot of controversy with water filters. Bacteria reproduces once ever 20 min by cell division. One becomes two, two, four, four becomes eight and after a year of this you got a colony of a few million. That one little bugger that got in the filter did it.

[sjaak327]

In Bangkok, indeed there are water machines, 5 baht for 4 liter. But I will go as far as to say, you can drink the tap water in Bangkok. Done that many times, without any problems.

Brushing your teeth with bottled water is over the top, surely you ain't going to drink it.

There are two visible problems with the tap water in Chiang Mai.

(1) There's dirt in it. Anyone who's ever used a water tank to hold water in case the tap water fails knows about this, because once a year or so you need someone to climb down in the tank and remove the sludge that has accumulated. This is not "invisible dirt!"

(2) The second problem is that it's chlorinated. The strength varies from time to time -- but sometimes you can actually smell the chlorine. This is clearly put in to kill bacteria, and might actually make washing fruit and vegetables more efficient! But who wants to drink chlorine? And, another big drawback: NEVER put your tropical fish in "fresh" tap water. They are likely to keel over and die from the chlorine. Put the tap water in a big jug or something and "age" it for 7-10 days: the chlorine will go away, and the water will then be fine for your fishies. But don't take my word for it: ask anyone who sells tropical fish.

I'm not sure everything in Bangkok is the same as Chiang Mai, though.

I've been here a long time and I shower in (filtered) tap water (it smells better), brush my teeth in the same, wash the dishes, boil the spaghetti, etc. When the water actually becomes an ingredient, I generally switch to bottled water: cheap bottled water for soup stock, stews, etc., and good Singha water for coffee and tea. My drinking water is Mont Fleur.

[TrongpaiExpat]

If you age water for 7 to 10 days you have stagnant water, water with with low dissolved oxygen. It also will absorb gases from the inside air. Small amounts of bacteria develop feeding off the NH4 converting it to NH3 and in turn use the O2 and create conditions for anaerobic bacteria (real bad guys) to develop. If you put an air stone in it, you avoid that simple biochemical reaction. Chlorine, a dissolved gas is not stable, it participates out in 24 hours or just use a chemical chlorine remover.

Don't any of you guys watch the Discovery Channel.

I would not pay much attention to your local fish store owner and read up on forums more like this on Water Chemistry www.discusforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=553f7954d81dcc7c576f71e0f50f5821 (http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=553f7954d81dcc7c576f71e0f50f5821)

This thread address the water prep. for fish:
www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15890 (http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15890)

For drinking water, carbon will take out chlorine and some organic compounds but I have also read that carbon is only effective for a few days and then it's a bacteria culture medium.

It's just easier to buy water to drink and use the RO machines on the street.

[dab69]

had forgotten toothpaste and tried brushing my teeth with just tap water- forgot where I was and HORRORS quicky opened a bottle of something else to wash the taste of fecal bacteria from my mouth.

the tap water tastes like crap.

Bottled water (Singha anyway) is the same quality as what goes into the water mains. The contamination occurs while the water is in the mains. One of the benefits of being colonised is that Peninsula Malaysia's tap water is perfectly safe to drink

... I have tested the water from them and the kh is 0, ph 6.0-- that's pure water.

.....

Actually pure water is pH 7.0 A 6.0 reading is on the acid side and I would guess it's from some kind of acid chemical that is used to nutralize the calcium (which is alkaline).
Since you're using it for fish and there's no ill effect I wouldnt worry about it.

I always use bottled water for drinking and I notice most Thai's I'm with do the same. I've never seen boyfriend drink out of the tap except at his house where they drink well water.

Of course if you're really worried you could just drink beer and brush your teeth with SangSom. :drunken:

[Smiles]

" ... Brushing your teeth with bottled water is over the top, surely you ain't going to drink it ... "
The normal fear with brushing teeth with (Thailand) tap water is not that you 'drink' it ~ well not much, anyway ~ but that any bacteria present might conceivably get into small cuts and sores in the mouth. How many times have you brushed your teeth with a bit too much vigour and then spit out a little bit of blood. Doesn't happen every time by any means, but it has happened to me. Those small cuts are presumably open for a short period of time while you're brushing, and thus may be an opening for any bacteria.
But frankly, I think teeth brushing is more an issue with folks who have a lowered immune response, rather than the healthy.

Cheers ...

[TrongpaiExpat]

... I have tested the water from them and the kh is 0, ph 6.0-- that's pure water.

.....

Actually pure water is pH 7.0 A 6.0 reading is on the acid side and I would guess it's from some kind of acid chemical that is used to nutralize the calcium (which is alkaline).


Actually, in the category of more than you need to know:

"The theoretical pH of highly purifed water is 7.0. In practice, however, most purified water will have a pH that is slightly acidic (less than 7.0) due to the presence of dissolved carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere. Dissolved carbon dioxide reacts slowly with water to give the bicarbonate and hydronium ions.

CO2 (g) + 2H2O(l) ⇋ HCO3- + H3O+

Note that carbonic acid, H2CO3, is only formed in strongly acid solutions. Distillation temporarily removes dissolved CO2 from the water. However, during condensation the water reabsorbs CO2 again resulting in a pH that is less than 7.0."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water)

I recall someplace someone went out in a park asking for signatures to ask the government to ban hydrogen dioxide, 1000's signed and not one person asked why are we baning water, H20?

[Sen Yai]

I recall someplace someone went out in a park asking for signatures to ask the government to ban hydrogen dioxide, 1000's signed and not one person asked why are we baning water, H20?

And why would they? Hydrogen Di-Oxide has two Oxygen molecules (actually written H202). Whereas water has two Hydrogen molecules with only one Oxygen!

Another factor in the does-one-ingest-tap-water discussion is the source of the water. Until a few months ago, my Jomtien condo relied 100% on trucked-in water. That is raw-from-the-pond water and not treated nor filtered in any way. I not only brushed my teeth with filtered water, I washed my dishes with it. One time when I walked up my soi, I saw the tanker truck with its hose plunked down in a murky pond at the side of the street.

Now, if you are certain you have water from a treated municipal water main, a factor to consider is your sensitivity to chlorine. I read in the paper once (so it must be true, huh?) that in Bankok even the 5-star hotels have "no not drink tap water" signs at the bathroom water taps because the Bangkok water treatment plants use a higher level of chlorine than many other western countries, and the hotels fear that the higher level might cause upset stomachs.

When I lived in a Bangkok condo with a municipal water supply, I still used to filter the water for drinking. After about two or three months I could start to taste the water so would replace the filters (one ceramic and one charcoal) and the ceramic one would be greenish brown. Here in Jomtien the ceramic filter would be dark brown in three weeks. That's when I learned you can scrub the ceramic filters and keep using them for several cycles.

[TrongpaiExpat]

I recall someplace someone went out in a park asking for signatures to ask the government to ban hydrogen dioxide, 1000's signed and not one person asked why are we baning water, H20?

And why would they? Hydrogen Di-Oxide has two Oxygen molecules (actually written H202). Whereas water has two Hydrogen molecules with only one Oxygen!

Whoops, move that di over for me would you? dihydrogen oxide

That's what happens with you take too much C2H5OH, those dam hydrogen molecules just don't stay still!

[ceejay]

I think this will be slightly different for expats and holiday makers. The makeup of the bacterial flora varies from place to place. Live anywhere for a while, and you will gradually build up a level of immunity to the local bugs. So, its probably a good idea for occasional visitors to be a little more careful in things like, for example, using bottled water to brush teeth.

The only problem I have ever had was, the first time I visited, I got a nose infection - which may perhaps have come from shower water. I just assumed it would go away after a day or two, and I was very wrong. It took three courses of antibiotics to shift it in the end. Second visit, the same thing happened - but this time I went straight off to the local Pharmacy, got some cream, and it was gone in a couple of days. I think the moral of that story is if you get an infection in Thailand - cuts, noses, insect bites, whatever - get to the Pharmacist sooner rather than later.

[BenCH]

I read in the paper once (so it must be true, huh?) that in Bangkok even the 5-star hotels have "no not drink tap water" signs at the bathroom water taps because the Bangkok water treatment plants use a higher level of chlorine than many other western countries, and the hotels fear that the higher level might cause upset stomachs.

Despite your newspaper reports I never saw such warning in any hotel (including The Peninsula, Shangri-la etc) I stayed at in Bangkok over the last 10 years. And I always use tap water for cleaning my teeth there without problems.

[TrongpaiExpat]

The only problem I have ever had was, the first time I visited, I got a nose infection - which may perhaps have come from shower water. I just assumed it would go away after a day or two, and I was very wrong. It took three courses of antibiotics to shift it in the end. Second visit, the same thing happened - but this time I went straight off to the local Pharmacy, got some cream, and it was gone in a couple of days. I think the moral of that story is if you get an infection in Thailand - cuts, noses, insect bites, whatever - get to the Pharmacist sooner rather than later.

By a nose infection I assume you mean rhino sinusitis? The hotel AC or the airplane air might be more to blame. No way of knowing or stopping people from making spurious conclusions. Here is the latest study on rhino sinusitis and treatment.

www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_62196.html (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_62196.html)

If your more inclined to think like the locals then here is an excellent cure for everything, bird's nest beverages, quite expensive too, so it has to be good!

notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=480 (http://notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=480)

My hobby is keeping tropical fish, so I have all the water testing kits. The tap water where I am now is high on chlorine and chloramine, I don't see how much bacteria or parasites could live in it. I have to dechlorinate it for the fish. The kh (calcium hardness) is 4 to 6 ppm, my guess is that the water supply is being buffered with sodium. GH (general hardness is also in the 4 to 6 range. GH is a concern in that some of the elements could be iron, copper or the more dangerous heavy metals. I don't get dangerous reading on any heavy metals but there could be trace amounts, probably from old pipes rather than the water supply. Those water machines do work. I have tested the water from them and the kh is 0, ph 6.0-- that's pure water.

TE,

I think you are being a bit optimistic if you think that the water testing kits for tropical fish will give any more than a very basic indication of whether your water is fit to drink or not. Testing for chlorine, calcium, general hardness, pH, etc, will not show up the micro-organisms that cause giardia, amoebiasis, dysentry, etc - many of which can live in chlorinated water.

[TrongpaiExpat]

To clarify, I don't drink tap water but do used it for my fish after removing the chlorine. The RO water alone is not good for fish, depends on the species but they do need some KH/GH. I drink the RO water from the machine, it's so cheap it's hardly worth considering tap water.

I use both test chemical kits and some electronic testers for PH, KH, GH, NO3, NO4, but for the fish not me!

[thrillbill]

I imagine there are various factors how "dirty" the water is in parts of Thailand (pipes, holding tanks...) All I know is that the Thais don't even drink the tap water. I drink only from bottled water but it seems that one would have a chance with those bacteria microbes multiplying inside of you when you do use the tap water when brushing your teeth. I can't say that I have been deathly sick from using tap water for cleaning my teeth....but twice now while living in Thailand I have had a bacterial infection (name?) in one of my eyes and the doctor has said it was from me having the tap water on my fingers before handling my contact lenses. I have learned to give my hands a good washing before putting the lenses on, but they are wet from tap water. In all the 20 years I have worn my lenses, I never had a bacteria eye infection until I lived in Pattaya. -who knows?

[TrongpaiExpat]

I remember this episode of Showtime's Penn and Teller's 'Bullshit' on bottled water and tap water. I don't see this series for sale on Silom or the other bootleg dealers and Showtime is not on UBC or any of the other cable providers in Thailand that I know of, too bad.

www.sho.com/site/ptbs/prevepisodes.do?episodeid=s1/bw (http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/prevepisodes.do?episodeid=s1/bw)

[dave_tf-old]

I would think it might also make a difference whether you clean your teeth while they are still in your mouth, or remove them and put them in a glass.

The only time I've let down my guard was travelling around Issaan. I drank water from a bowl in a corn field from unknown origins. Thankfully, I had preceded the swig with a healthy dose of Issaan hootch and actually felt better after drinking the combo than before.

[ceejay]

By a nose infection I assume you mean rhino sinusitis? The hotel AC or the airplane air might be more to blame. No way of knowing or stopping people from making spurious conclusions. Here is the latest study on rhino sinusitis and treatment.


Thanks for the link - it's an interesting article, and useful to me.

[TrongpaiExpat]

By a nose infection I assume you mean rhino sinusitis? The hotel AC or the airplane air might be more to blame. No way of knowing or stopping people from making spurious conclusions. Here is the latest study on rhino sinusitis and treatment.


Thanks for the link - it's an interesting article, and useful to me.

If it gets really bad and you need to see a doctor Bumrungrad had a good ENT clinic, you generally get an appointment on the day you call.
www.bumrungrad.com/thailand-expat/Medical-Services/Overview.aspx (http://www.bumrungrad.com/thailand-expat/Medical-Services/Overview.aspx)

And for a few chuckles:
notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=388 (http://notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=388)

Those who have been there will get it.

[TrongpaiExpat]

I would think it might also make a difference whether you clean your teeth while they are still in your mouth, or remove them and put them in a glass.


Ha Ha Ha
Half of the Pattaya resident don't find that funny.

Not there yet, all teeth attached by the root and at no small expense and a lot of chair time at the dentist. I have had every dam procedure know to modern dentistry except implants.

But now that you mention it, I wonder what water they use when drilling, boring, scraping, probing and cutting me up?

Despite your newspaper reports I never saw such warning in any hotel (including The Peninsula, Shangri-la etc) I stayed at in Bangkok over the last 10 years. And I always use tap water for cleaning my teeth there without problems.
Before I moved here, which was in 2001, I recall such signage by the bathroom faucets at the Hilton (Wireless Road) and the Intercontinental, but perhaps they weren't 5-star hotels and/or the times have changed: either the municipal water supply in BKK is now more palatable or the hotels filter it further?

[BenCH]

Before I moved here, which was in 2001, I recall such signage by the bathroom faucets at the Hilton (Wireless Road) and the Intercontinental, but perhaps they weren't 5-star hotels and/or the times have changed: either the municipal water supply in BKK is now more palatable or the hotels filter it further?
Stayed last year at the Intercontinental: no signs - assume they filter further. I remember having seen such signs in Shanghai and ... at the Intercontinental in Sydney (only during one visit).