Two different posters!

Henry Cate: You seem a little confused about two very different stories. I'm NOT the guy who had the fantasy trip to Isaan.

Not confused in the slightest - two different stories, by two different posters, hence two different relevant paragraphs in my post.

Have you ever had the experience of being called a liar by someone completely unknown to you?

I never called you a liar - I simply said "23 year olds in high school - actually it is not allowed (it would not be allowed in most countries), but if he can get away with it good luck to him...."

What is your proof? Are you quite sure that you have considered the rules for public versus private high schools? Quite sure?? Are you really VERY sure that people aged 18-20 cannot enter the 10th grade?

A representatve of the Chonburi education authority told me so in person. These rules apply to public, private (Thai curriculum) and International (international curriculum) schools. Quite sure. VERY sure. Positive. Utterly. Totally. Beyond any possible doubt. 100%.

I am not saying that Aod has not been able to do so, simply that he is not allowed to do so. Not, as I am sure you are aware, necessarily the same thing!

At the "real school," the spelling and grammar mistakes continue, but they aren't so important. The poor over-worked khruu is dealing with a class of 46 students, which means the students almost never speak.

Now, if I were paying for it, a class of 46 really would upset me!!

[Bob]

I never called you a liar - I simply said "23 year olds in high school - actually it is not allowed (it would not be allowed in most countries), but if he can get away with it good luck to him...."

What is your proof? Are you quite sure that you have considered the rules for public versus private high schools? Quite sure?? Are you really VERY sure that people aged 18-20 cannot enter the 10th grade?

A representatve of the Chonburi education authority told me so in person. These rules apply to public, private (Thai curriculum) and International (international curriculum) schools. Quite sure. VERY sure. Positive. Utterly. Totally. Beyond any possible doubt. 100%.


Regardless of what you think or who told you what, there are many Thai kids finishing high school in Thailand in their twenties. My bf (29 now) finished in Chiangmai at age 24, he having gone back when he was 19 to start and ultimately finish high school (and I know that's true as I watched him go to school at age 24). I also know a Thai kid in Udon Thani who finished high school at age 23. Many rural families pull their kids from school when they are 13 - whether to work in the rice fields, the family restaurant, or simply because they can't afford the fees for clothing, books, and the like - and a few of those kids, once they've had their fill of that (and desire to try to get a better job), go back to high school in their late teens and early twenties. Many of the decent (actually mediocre) jobs require at least a high school diploma as a prerequisite.
I'd guess the percentage of dropouts who go back is small but it still adds up to a lot of bodies [here in the states, supposedly more than 10%* of highschool diplomas are the "GED" variety (being kids who have dropped out and later went back to finish]. Even our local (rural northern Michigan) public school district has special programs for completion of high school by adults from 18 to 80.

*One website claims that 1 in 7 are the GED variety.

[sattahip-old]

Henry, whose?

[Smiles]

" ... Well, I am really of two minds about answering your post. You seem a little confused about two very different stories. I'm NOT the guy who had the fantasy trip to Isaan ... "
Henry, for myself ... just want you to know that I did not confuse your postings on this topic (i.e. your topic) with that of Diec's (possible/probable) fantasy trip. I notice that there has been no response from Diec, which makes me suspicious that it was a set-up piece.

Although some dudes here seem to want to go so far as to throw up over you original posting, I'm not one of them. It would be pretty hypocritical of me to start denigrating "love" ... as I am in that (enviable?) position myself.

Please continue writing about this, no matter how others respond . . . you're going to get the enire range of opinion anyway. This Board has always been of that nature.

Cheers ...

Now I really am totally confused - having gone to the Thai forum first, I can't imagine any possible reason why this was moved, clearly leaving a
gap in a thread that was exclusively about Thailand. Oh well, (shrugs!) ...

Bob:

Regardless of what you think or who told you what, there are many Thai kids finishing high school in Thailand in their twenties.

As I said, what is allowed and what happens is not necessarily the same thing (and good luck to those who can get away with it).

I still fail to see why most adults would want to spend up to six years in full time education when they can attend one day of adult education a week, for a shorter period of overall time (2 years instead of 3, 4 instead of 6), or even just take the exams at the end of the set time without having to attend any classes (for example if they have learnt to read and write English) in order to get an identical certificate.

Many of the decent (actually mediocre) jobs require at least a high school diploma as a prerequisite.

Even a shelf stacker at Lotus / Big C - although apparently a certificate from the high school of KhaoSan Road is just as acceptable there!

[Smiles]

" ... Now I really am totally confused - having gone to the Thai forum first, I can't imagine any possible reason why this was moved, clearly leaving a gap in a thread that was exclusively about Thailand. Oh well, (shrugs!) ..."
Unbelievable, isn't it? I thought the post had been gutted (naturally with no explanation), but then come over to find 5 or 6 posts from that thread surgically removed from the Mother Topic, made into their own totally incomprehensible and contextless topic, given a new subject line by (who?), and moved to the Global Forum.

What the HELL is going on with this message Board??

Cheers ...

Oh God. The ignorance-laden pettiness on this forum is exhausting.

Yes, people older than 18 can do a high school equivalency programme - "kosonoh" - either on a daily or weekend basis. These schools are privately managed. It takes up to six years to complete the programme depending on your entry level and whether you do it part time or full time. Pass grades will normally allow you to proceed to one of the Rajabhats or private colleges. There is also a primary kosonoh.

Can people older than 18 attend a regular mattayom for 13 to 18-year-olds to start/resume their secondary education? Usually, no. The bar is 20 for those already in the system who had to repeat a level or two.

FILTHy Love

not quite sure who you are referring to as either ignorant or petty, or why you have taken the trouble to add nothing to what has already been said if you are so exhausted. After all, those posting above, including both you and I, simply have different experience - for example yours is at odds not only with what I have been told officially but what I have seen myself at the Banglamung district registration for adult education, held regularly at Wat Po on the Pattaya-Naklua Road.

These courses are also available at government run schools and district centres, as well as at the "privately managed" schools you refer to, and those qualifying are entitled to apply for any college / university / higher education place in competition with all other applicants.

FILTHy Love

These courses are also available at government run schools and district centres, as well as at the "privately managed" schools you refer to, and those qualifying are entitled to apply for any college / university / higher education place in competition with all other applicants.

Not anymore. Kosonoh programmes are now privately run with curriculum and funding assistance from the government.

To qualify for entry into the state universities - certainly the more prestigious ones - applicants must write the national university entrance exam at the end of Mathayom 6. Those who have climbed the academic ladder through a more unconventional route usually only have the Rajabhats and private colleges/universities open to them.

The ignorance-laden pettiness on this forum is really exhausting.!!!

This is not about who is right and who is wrong but when making factual claims about a Thai person's opportunities to further himself/herself one should at least try to look beyond one's ego and fantasies of being the know-it-all doyenne of Pattaya.
It's not about how much you think you know but about helping them achieve their goals within very real limitations. Just having money to further their education doesn't mean the sky is the limit for mature-age Thai students. The kosonoh programme doesn't hold up in terms of rigour and content to a normal secondary school education; it's main purpose is to provide a certificate that says a candidate has received sufficient skills in literacy, numeracy and an understanding of Thai society that are equivalent to someone who has completed a regular secondary education. Hence the limited study and work opportunities that follow. Is it better than nothing? Yes. Does it carry the same prospects and prestige as having completed Mathayom 6 at the right age? No.

It's useful to bear in mind that financial inability is only ONE factor why they may not have been able to continue their studies conventionally; other factors are apathy, lack of interest and sheer ineptitude, which the Thais and their supporting farang are reluctant to admit. There's a reason why three indentured farmers' sons can share a 2,000Bt room, eat Mama everyday, hold down evening jobs and still graduate from Thammasat while their neighbours end up on a Pattaya go-go stage.

The ignorance-laden pettiness on this forum is really, really exhausting.!!!

The differences between the old and the new programmes for adult education, from the students' perspective, are minimal. The application process, the curriculum, the exams, the regulations and the graduation certificate are unchanged; the only significant difference is that some places in private schools are government funded / subsidised.

FILTHy Love

This is not about who is right and who is wrong

precisely why I said it is a question of "different experience" - until you intervened, I did not consider anyone "right or wrong".

The kosonoh programme doesn't hold up in terms of rigour and content to a normal secondary school education; it's main purpose is to provide a certificate that says a candidate has received sufficient skills in literacy, numeracy and an understanding of Thai society that are equivalent to someone who has completed a regular secondary education.

Since you appear out to win pedant of the month, if it is "equivalent" to "a regular secondary education", then it is the same - that is the meaning of the word.

Does it carry the same prospects and prestige as having completed Mathayom 6 at the right age? No.

Adult education seldom does in any country.

There's a reason why three indentured farmer's sons can share a 2,000Bt room, eat Mama everyday, hold down evening jobs and still graduate from Thammasat while their neighbours end up on a Pattaya go-go stage.

Really? You clearly have far more experience of such things than I, as I have never come across such a situation, and can neither imagine how they could attend Thammasat while indentured or what the reason for such an unlikely event could be. I bow to your superior "ego and fantasies" and am happy to leave you unchallenged as "the know-it-all doyenne of Pattaya" - a title you clearly both covet and deserve.

Bye, bye

The differences between the old and the new programmes for adult education, from the students' perspective, are minimal.

So, tell us, what exactly do they teach in these old and new programmes?


The application process, the curriculum, the exams, the regulations and the graduation certificate are unchanged; the only significant difference is that some places in private schools are government funded / subsidised.

Again, I'm sure many members of this forum who are thinking of sending their loved ones back to school would appreciate this information. Walk us through the process, please.



precisely why I said it is a question of "different experience" - until you intervened, I did not consider anyone "right or wrong".

Intervened? I wasn't aware that this thread was exclusive to you and...you?


The kosonoh programme doesn't hold up in terms of rigour and content to a normal secondary school education; it's main purpose is to provide a certificate that says a candidate has received sufficient skills in literacy, numeracy and an understanding of Thai society that are equivalent to someone who has completed a regular secondary education.

Since you appear out to win pedant of the month, if it is "equivalent" to "a regular secondary education", then it is the same - that is the meaning of the word.

In numeracy and literacy skills, yes, theoretically anyway. But Kosonoh programmes do not offer the same content subjects that regular secondary schools do: no history, geography, physics, chemistry, biology and additional maths. No Thai literature. What they study is basic Thai language, Thai social studies and elementary maths. Most students in Kosonoh still struggle to read and write. The exams are dumbed down.


I still fail to see why most adults would want to spend up to six years in full time education when they can attend one day of adult education a week, for a shorter period of overall time (2 years instead of 3, 4 instead of 6), or even just take the exams at the end of the set time without having to attend any classes (for example if they have learnt to read and write English) in order to get an identical certificate.

There are none so blind as those who will not see. Because they are essentially taking a short cut, the certificate they receive is NOT IDENTICAL to the secondary school leaving certificate in form and in terms of future prospects.


Does it carry the same prospects and prestige as having completed Mathayom 6 at the right age? No.

Adult education seldom does in any country.

The question here is really about how far the equivalency certificate can take you. My concern is that some people might think it opens more doors than it actually does. And I disagree, adult education in some countries are highly looked upon because it is much harder to study a REAL curriculum (not Thai waffle) as an adult juggling work and personal commitments than as a school student.



There's a reason why three indentured farmers' sons can share a 2,000Bt room, eat Mama everyday, hold down evening jobs and still graduate from Thammasat while their neighbours end up on a Pattaya go-go stage.

Really? You clearly have far more experience of such things than I, as I have never come across such a situation, and can neither imagine how they could attend Thammasat while indentured or what the reason for such an unlikely event could be.

Well, don't be too hard on yourself. We can't reasonably expect anyone who lives in the brothel-by-the-sea to know such things or come across real hardship bravely borne through hard work and determination, not by selling pussy or ass to filthy old men. (Although I don't envy anyone selling their ass to someone old enough to be their 'paw' or 'phu'.) Spend sometime on a real university campus in Thailand and you will see poorer than poor, students holding two jobs, students eating instant noodles everyday because their parents can't afford to give them pocket money. Their parents are indentured farmers and labourers; in other words they work for wages and not for their own land.



I bow to your superior "ego and fantasies" and am happy to leave you unchallenged as "the know-it-all doyenne of Pattaya" - a title you clearly both covet and deserve.

You give me too much credit. I'm not old and desperate enough to want to live in Pattaya. I "intervened" because it seemed to me that wrong information was being given on this very important topic. I don't "covet" anything - you can have the tiara all to yourself; I only hope it is big enough for you.

The ignorance-laden pettiness on this forum is really exhausting.!!!I find it amusing, if anything. George is one of my favourites in the petty-minded arena

The ignorance-laden pettiness on this forum is really, really, really exhausting.!!


FILTHy Love: So, tell us, what exactly do they teach in these old and new programmes?

The same thing, which is why I took exception to your calling those previously posting ignorant and petty and then saying they were wrong. Why ask? As you already said, it consists of "basic Thai language, Thai social studies and elementary maths". Other subjects, such as English language, are optional and usually included. Little, as I said, has changed.


FILTHy Love: Again, I'm sure many members of this forum who are thinking of sending their loved ones back to school would appreciate this information. Walk us through the process, please.

Again?

I doubt if "many members of this forum" (except Homi!) are wasting their time reading this thread, but I will humour you this once. The process, in simple terms:

Loved one goes to district office; loved one asks about adult education programmes (when, where, what, how much); loved one goes, as directed, to register taking copies of required paperwork (ID card, house papers, school papers), applies and pays; loved one attends classes; loved one takes exams; loved one (possibly) passes and receives certificate.


FILTHy Love: Intervened? I wasn't aware that this thread was exclusive to you and...you?

Intervened, interjected, posted a pointless and unnecessarily abusive comment, added nothing constructive .... none imply any exclusivity.


FILTHy Love: Kosonoh programmes do not offer the same content subjects that regular secondary schools do: no history, geography, physics, chemistry, biology and additional maths. No Thai literature. What they study is basic Thai language, Thai social studies and elementary maths. Most students in Kosonoh still struggle to read and write. The exams are dumbed down.

"Equivalent" was the term you chose to use ("The kosonoh programme...'s main purpose is to provide a certificate that says a candidate has received sufficient skills in literacy, numeracy and an understanding of Thai society that are equivalent to someone who has completed a regular secondary education.") If you repeatedly use terms you do not mean or understand that is your responsibility, not mine.


FILTHy Love: There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Well Hello, Stevie Wonder - I had not realised you were posting here!!


FILTHy Love: Because they are essentially taking a short cut, the certificate they receive is NOT IDENTICAL to the secondary school leaving certificate in form and in terms of future prospects.

I quite agree, as I made clear, however as you correctly said it is the "equivalent" and an "equivalency certificate".


FILTHy Love: We can't reasonably expect anyone who lives in the brothel-by-the-sea to know such things or come across real hardship bravely borne through hard work and determination, not by selling pussy or ass to filthy old men.

To say that those fortunate enough to have been able to go on to higher education at any level, such as high school (grades 7 - 12), let alone university, are any braver, harder working or more determined than those who had no alternative but to leave school and work just to survive is egotistical, contemptible and totally unjustified (and the only reason I have wasted my time replying here).

It is hardly relevant, but I do not live in Pattaya (which I presume you are referring to), nor have I yet been called 'paw' or 'phu'.


FILTHy Love: Spend sometime on a real university campus in Thailand and you will see poorer than poor, students holding two jobs, students eating instant noodles everyday because their parents can't afford to give them pocket money.

While spending time on a Thai university campus and searching out "poorer than poor students ... holding two jobs ... eating instant noodles" with no "pocket money" may be interesting to you, it is not to me.


FILTHy Love: Their parents are indentured farmers and labourers; in other words they work for wages and not for their own land.

It is a pity you have not attended further education yourself, rather than just cruising the university campus looking for poor students; had you done so you would know that "indentured" is a specific term, which often applies to Thai labourers, and has nothing to do with someone who "work(s) for wages and not for their own land".


FILTHy Love:You give me too much credit.

Evidently so; I will not make the same mistake again.