Do you still feel so safe in Pattaya - Sunee - Jomtien ?

Many post in this forum speak about money problem with thai boys, security or scare feeling in gay places.

This year and this season (was there any high season ?) so many bars and shop say it's their most bad (badest ?) Year.

Maybe it's why so many thai boys try to find more and more way to win "salary".

How you feel in those places at night (and day time too), do you still feel so safe same before ?
Do you still have the same kind and good relationship since the beginning with thai boys ?

Yes.

Maybe many people think Raksiam answer or post too much but nelson answer is so great, so developed, so....short

For me Pattaya and thai boy way of acting change so much at this time, and us "Farang" have to be more and more carefull and more thinking about our feelings of fun time.

How you feel in those places at night (and day time too), do you still feel so safe same before ?

Completely Safe.
Treat others with respect, smile, give a few modest tips, don't get agressive, don't get too drunk, talk quietly (US citizens please note).

yes so sure, and that's why I no understand in this board how, us "farang" never try to be friendly each other but always try to find or to invent a problem between us.
You will never see this with thai people, when a westerner have a problem with a thai, all thai people will agree with the thai guy, they never try to know or to understand, for them the thai guy is alway the good one and only farang make mistakes or do bad.
why we cant try to be more "friend", maybe that will help so many of us with bad manners from the small % of real bad guy here in Pattaya (thai or farang).
and maybe that will help thai to become again or stay this so friendship, smiling and nice country and people.

[atri1666]

Also yes! Now more than 20 years

Also yes! Now more than 20 years

Touch├й atri.


George.

[thrillbill]

IF I walk around Boyztown or the Day Night area after midnight by myself I feel safe but I wouldn't do the same thing on the beach alone after midnight. And of course if anyone approached me in any areas of Pattaya after midnight I would be on guard just like in any city around the city. I do appreciate people posting warnings about bad experiences they have had in the city to remind me about being "on guard."

Also, Yes. No problems in many years. But then again, I don't get drunk and wonder about at 2 AM. Fools will have problems everywhere in the world.

I come Pattaya for only 3 years but I come 3 or 4 times every yeras (or I try to).
Maybe at my first times all was great, all boys was so nice, so sexy, and all they say was so good to hear ! Maybe i was big big naive.

I used to go to jomtien complex and Sunee at night time, and I never feel insecure. Even I didn't know so many thai guys or had thai friends.

Last times I came (November 07 and february 08), maybe bacause i begin to have some problems with my "BF" i not enjoy and no feel so safe in Pattaya.
Maybe i begin bored about specific gay places, maybe I begin bored about barboys or gogo way to find new customers, maybe I no more believe or no more trust about thai feelings, with what I was living with my (now ex-) BF.

I never see, (or maybe for the first time I decide to see), so many fight at night, so many young gang on motorbike, so amny drunk guy who just ask you money and insult you in thai (I can understand now things like ee dock tong, Kway, ...).

My meaning was not to say Pattaya become like Paris or any others western big city at night, but just for the first time, I realize so many thai boys working there was needing money, and with a so bad year with out so many tourist, feel like they was more and more angry, agressive, and loose easily thair smiling behavior.

The worst place I saw was for sure dong tan beach, but 7/11 near Jomtien complex make me go there many time for my cigarettes and going or living this shop at 2 am was not so easy with many many guy waiting just in front of the door.

I just would like to know if it's an normal way, when you become more addict with Pattaya, not to no more see everything in Pink, but to no more dream or feel so secure in this place, or really thai boys workers and gay thai people change their way of acting because the need of money there become more and more difficult to have.
And for the first time I begin to have a kind of blackmail or vendetta from thai guys just because i no want to pay, no more want to pay, or refuse to believe some kind of legend about motorbike, buffalo, and brother in hospital.

(And I have the same feeling with website like gayromeo and gaydar, so many scam, just money needed, and about 1500 to 2000 for short time. No more take time to make you think or make you believe it can have a kind of relationship between you and the guy)

[Jetsam]

I still feel safe in pattaya , only one time I felt unsafe when I had to pass a beer bottle throwing motobike gang late at night in the middle of nowhere .
Btw I don't think raksiam is a troll , he has some very good points.

[dave_tf-old]

Anybody dealing with the public for their livelihood has a tough, usually underpaid job. It's a promotion in service industries to get away from customers.

In a place like Pattaya where there is a never ending stream of customers, this surely must be a tough way to make a living as well. Add components of multiple nationalities and languages, individuals reeling from culture shock, innumerable personal disappointments, psyches overwhelmed by sexual stimuli, alcohol, etc. etc. and one can begin to sympathize with such workers, whether they work in bars, hotels, or restaraunts.

There probably is more unity among Thai than among tourists...even among expats. Why shouldn't there be? Beyond being a natural cultural norm, the 'us against them' attitude is prevalant in the most benign service industries, and people serving customers the world over have learned the art of the smile, despite what aggravations they feel.

It might be nice to wish that 'we' could get together and form a more united front of niceness. But it just isn't possible. I'm willing to bet that boards like this, travel guides, and websites reach less than 5% of vistors to Thailand beyond the basics of 'where do I stay, how do I get there'.

'We' doesn't exist, no matter how much you might want it to.

To answer the question. I feel safe in Thailand, and welcome as well.

Maybe I am getting older, warier, more paranoid, or just possibly more aware of what is going on around me, but I have to disagree with those who say that Pattaya and its environs are as safe as they were twenty years ago. I am not saying this as a criticism of Pattaya, necessarily, as I think that the same could be said of most urban areas in most countries, but I only have recent experience of Pattaya so that is all I can comment on.

Armed and violent crime (and by that I mean crime involving firearms or knives) has undoubtedly increased against both Thais and Farangs. Chonburi has the highest crime rate, as a province, within Thailand, and Pattaya the highest rate within that.

In the past motorcycle / scooter "gangs" were unheard of, now gang fights are relatively common and most of these involve firearms (I am not talking about the various motorcycle clubs, Thai and Farang) and a number of totally innocent Thais have been injured / killed in "ride-by" shootings. These are not isolated events and are not only in the outskirts - one shop assistant from Big C, for example, was caught in gunfire and killed going home from work on Second Road, well before midnight.

In the past glue sniffing was a relatively minor problem; now it has been replaced by yaa-baa addicts who are not only far more numerous but need far more money to support their addiction, consequently leading to more crime.

The incidence of Thais being mugged by fellow Thais in central Pattaya (including Boyztown) has been climbing (more than one Thai friend of mine has been mugged there, at knifepoint) to the extent that a number of Thai bar workers (male and female) are wary of going to some areas alone, late at night.

Although the size and population of Pattaya has been growing, the number of police has not kept pace and the police are desperately undermanned. Even with the addition of uniformed military support to patrols, and volunteer police (who are very much a "mixed bag"), the number of "beat" police is simply inadequate. Undercover police, such as those in the motorcycle taxi queues, are effective but, again, limited in number.

Much has been made of TV camera coverage, but as these cameras are barely monitored (nor are they particularly high definition) they are only useful re-actively, not pro-actively, which is not a great deterrence.

Do I feel safe as safe in Pattaya as I used to? Sadly, no, but I would probably feel the same way if I returned to most of the other urban centres I have lived in around the world.

For the most part I finf Pattaya as safe now as I have over the last few years but this time (Feb 08) I had 3 unpleasant encounters

1) going from the beach to town on the baht bus I found a hand in my pocket - there was a gang of 3 girls and a boy who got on the bus which was quite crowded the boy squeezed his cute little bottom between me and another farang and put his jumper [sweater] on his lap with his arms underneath - the next thing I noticed was his hand making it's way to my pocket so I shifted slighly to make it difficult for him and then gave a 'look' to one og the girls - she quickly pressed the bell said something in Thai and all 4 got off. They obviously caught another bus as a few minutes later they flagged down my bus again saw me and decided not to get on.

2) I was walking back from top supermarket with the strap of my bag on the shoulder next to the road with the traffic coming from my back. If the strap is on my right shoulder then my left arm is across my chest and my left hand on the strap. I decided to move the bag over to the other shoulder - at the same time a motorbike wizzes past and the passenger makes a grab for the bag but missed - if I hadn't had decided to change shoulders at that precise moment he probably would have got the bag.

3) a freelancer sat next to me outside a bar - the bar owner comes out tells the boy to go as he is barred {this I didn't know}this involves a bit of pushing and shouting and a few punches before other customers step in and the boy goes off

[catawampuscat]

It is safe as long as one is not stupid.
No place in the world is safe if one is stupid and gets drunk, walks alone down dark sois flashing cash
and gold.
The greatest danger in Pattaya is the traffic and just crossing the streets. Even more dangerous to actually
drive a motorbike especially if one is in his cups or just forgot his age... :cat:

Then OK, maybe I am wrong, maybe my own feelings with my own ex-love story make me see everything in black.

I know newspappers speak only about problems, but it seems Pattaya become N┬░ 1 in Asia for tourist problems, steal, rob, and all this kind of "job".

And I still think money problems become more and more important in thailand now with so small number of tourist.
and it seems the weather in Pattaya for few days no make anything beeing better.

I still think thai boys change their way of acting, and become less smiling and more agressive.
Stories of Thai vendetta are more and more known and this not make me feeling safe.
Pattay still not Paris at night, but not beeing stupid not seem to be enough, you are to be carefull too.

It was not the way I used to have hollidays and fun only 2 years ago !

I guess you do need to be on guard anywhere, but late at night I feel much safer on the streets of Bangkok than the streets of London or Paris. The scariest people in Pattaya are the straight white guys with tattoos.

It's my first time in Pattaya, so I thought I would head down to the beach to watch the sunset. I sat down and within seconds, one guy approached me, friendly enough I guess, and asked me what I was looking for. I told him 'I'm not looking for anything, I'm here to see the sunset'.
Within a minute of sitting down, he calls his friend over and he sits down on the other side of me. At the corner of my eye I can see him checking out the pockets on my cargo shorts where my wallet and camera are and the first guy is quizzing me about who am I there with, where am I staying. (I told him my friends are behind me.)

Alarms are going off in my head so I calmly got up and said "Enjoy your evening", joined a group of Arab looking men walking down the sidewalk.

Broad daylight and I felt like I was about to be mugged. Was I being sized up?

Broad daylight and I felt like I was about to be mugged. Was I being sized up?Sounds like it

Yes totally safe.

[Shuee]

you need to be on your gaurd on baht bus to. i here story of gold chains being torn from your neck by motorsy robbers, & also have seen 2 time now, pick pockets at work.

[bkkguy]

At the corner of my eye I can see him checking out the pockets on my cargo shorts where my wallet and camera are ...Was I being sized up?

you mean the bulge in your shorts wasn't just the camera?

bkkguy

[dab69]

deathly afraid of being polled by a
chubby farang there now...

I do understand some Russian and a few times I overheard very homophobic and extremely hatred comments about me (walking together with my BF) exchanged amongst passing-by russians along the Dongtan beach road. Hordes of them are walking the road to what it appears to be an all-russian hotel with the water tower/cable car.

fly4red,

I think that the influx of Russians / East Europeans will result in a certain amount of Westerners going elsewhere and even retiring to live elsewhere, but I doubt if they will present a danger to gays any more than any other foreigners - apparently quite a few now visit the gay bars, so the homophobic comments are probably no more typical than those you would get from a group of, for example, the British football hooligan element.

[Narakmak]

Can the Russian speaker please spell out phonetically some common Russian homophobic remarks so that we may sneer and snarl at the appropriate moments?

"fag" in Russian is "peder", "pederast", "pedik". "to kill" is "ubit" . What I heard in my situation literary meant "a fxxxxg fag, to kill is not enough". And I too confirm that football fans are no better: I had one drunk trying to strike a conversation in a tuk-tuk with a friendly "Are you a fag?". We were lucky to escape after stopping the tuk tuk immediately, and the bastard stayed.... Me being an experienced visitor to Jomtien for many years, I feel less and less comfortable nowdays because of the elements described, who are sadly taking over....

[francois]

To answer the question, No I do not feel as safe in Pattaya as I did when I first arrived in 2000. Or maybe I was more naive then?

You can find your favorite swear words in any language at www.insultmonger.com (http://www.insultmonger.com) but I would be careful! My bf will not even pronounce the words in Thai for me. "Not good words".

Francois

DELETED

"fag" in Russian is "peder", "pederast", "pedik". "to kill" is "ubit" . What I heard in my situation literary meant "a fxxxxg fag, to kill is not enough". And I too confirm that football fans are no better: I had one drunk trying to strike a conversation in a tuk-tuk with a friendly "Are you a fag?".

You should have replied, "Are you a twat?"

According to a Rusian speaking friend, pedik, peder, etc, refer more to a gay paedophile than a gay. Your drunk "football fan" was almost certainly not a British one - a "fag" to a Brit means a cigarette, while to an American it means a gay!

Another intelligent suggestion from El Presidente - at least "does it show" or "sorry, but you're not my type" may have been witty, rather than a request for a thick lip.

You all always cry for the laws - now the law was one time answering. Its your "freedom" system and so enjoy it!

DELETED

I sometimes wonder if the question of feeling more or less safe after a period of time is more to do with familiarity, rather than actual evidence.

I'm sure we all remember our first time in LOS with clarity and fond memories. How could a place like this exist and go unnoticed by us for so long? We all experienced Thailand for the first time with our eyes wide open, and our mouths dropped to the floor in sheer amazement. It goes without saying that when us Westerners encounter a place like LOS for the first time, naivety tells us that it's a magical, wondrous land where only good exists, and nothing bad can ever happen.

Of course, going back a second time to try and recapture that first impression never quite works out. It has already started to become familiar, and although it's still the Disneyland we thought it was, we start to pick up on the odd bit of negativity. Subsequent visits, while still exiting, adventurous and dreamlike, only go to further our awareness that this magical place isn't quite as we thought it was the first time around.

It's obvious that the more familiar you become with a place, the more you take notice of things that you didn't before. This can be positive things, such as places you'd never visited or learning new aspects of the culture, but it can also mean negative things, such as hearing about foreigners being mugged or thrown off balconies.

Is Thailand becoming more dangerous for us Ferangs? Or is it the case that the more we familiarise ourselves with it, our awareness of the negative side of it increases, making us believe that it's becoming more dangerous, when in fact, it's no more dangerous that it ever was in the first place?

Are the Thais our enemy, or was it just our own naivety?

Is Thailand becoming more dangerous for us Ferangs? Are the Thais our enemy, or was it just our own naivety?

I agree that one's perception of things changes as one becomes familiar with them, but my perception is not that it is "more dangerous for us Ferangs" because "the Thais our enemy", but that it is simply more dangerous for Thais and farangs alike.

[Shuee]

you know there are a few slums on the outskirts of pty, this like many other cities in the world will attract the unfortunate in to wrong doings.....