Boy Bars, Money Boys and 1000 Baht bills.

Paying for sex from a gogo bar is a lot cheaper. These "Relationship Guys" are always on about: School Fees, Motocy's, Parent's problems, Sister's kids, birthday, newyear and other presents, money to go out when you don't want to etc. etc. It all adds up and it gets very boring.

In the bars you get to choose who you want rather than have some fat Chinese 'left-over' chasing you because he is desperate and thinks you are also.
I want to choose who I go to bed with ... not vice versa

This is bound to be non-controversial, huh. So let me slip in the answers of another long-time resident of Thailand. I should note that this guy had been burned by his first attempt at a "love relationship" and had pretty much lost interest in that aspect of things.

What he said was, "Of course you can find sex for free. The only real problem with that concept is that you may spend an awful lot of time and effort looking for someone attractive. When you go out to the bars and take off a bar-host, it's a lot quicker and more efficient -- and you'll very likely wind up with young men of stunning appearance." For him, it was just a trade-off: if he spent five hours cruising and hunting -- five hours during which he could have been earning 500 baht per hour -- it would have a cost of 2500 baht for him in lost wages. On the other hand, if he popped into a local bar and tipped someone 1000, it was much more convenient.

Now, that's HIS answer. Part of my own answer is that some of the "free guys" I have picked up in Thailand have been even more exploitative than the bar-hosts. They know they should be expecting a lot from an older farang, but their lack of experience can lead them into the wildest fantasy. One guy I met at a shopping mall insisted that I teach his ugly friend English, wanted to go out for drinks and dinner, and simply led me down the garden path -- we never DID get a roll in the hay, either.

As another observation, the number of gay men, Thai or farang, in Thailand, who have never had some sort of fantasy or relationship with a bar-host is pretty small, and gets even smaller as age increases.

Over to you, Smiles! :-)

[adman5000]

I have reverted to being a butterfly and plan on giving it a try for a while. I would challenge your statement that you are able to compare "sex for free" (which your statement implies) and "sex for pay". While some relationships may appear to be "free" at first, over time, they may not be free.

I view the advantages of "sex for pay" as:
- more of a controlled relationship with certain expectations
- enjoying the hunt as much as the result
- variety of choice
- each relationship is fresh
- more of a focus on pleasing the customer versus "same-same"
- when "fun" extends beyond a coital definition, I find barboys more open to this
- sex does not equal love
- convenience, especially when you are just visiting Thailand
- avoiding the inevitable problems of maintaining a long distance relationship if you do not live in Thailand
- the boy is possibly more skilled and tuned in to how to have fun sexually
- at least some degree of medical safety
- possible overall less risk (the guy is working at a bar versus being some Jekyll and Hyde looking for a way to roll some unsuspecting farang. There can be a lot of violent potential behind those smiles. How do you know and what extra precautions do you need to take? It can be extra effort for your personal security.)



Nonsexworker advantages:

My comments are from the perspective of "'finding a nonsexworker for a relationship" (which to me implies longer term) If you are talking about someone who is cruising the malls, internet cafes, discos, or coffeshops or whatever for a quickie, to me that is not a relationship.

- one or both must have an attraction to the other for the relationship to continue which I think can possibly lead to more intense feelings for each other
- friendship and acceptance which can lead to longer term love
- more in depth knowledge about each other and your habits is possible (which might also be a disadvantage!)
- possible relationship with his family (which might also be a disadvantage!)
- some on this board can evidently feel superior to those that choose the "sex for pay"path (sorry - I couldn't resist.)
- no off fees and possibly lower bar bills (but beware of hidden costs)


me tink too much.

[allieb]

Oh Boy what a subject.

How many of us, before discovering Thailand have wanted what is not available and have been driven mad fantasizing? I for one have actually felt ill fancying having sex with someone who is just not available to me and have had to fantasize over him during masturbation or during sex with someone else.

Now here comes Thailand, its like being a child again set loose in a toy shop with enough money to get whatever we want. We are older and richer and they are younger and handsome buy the bucket full. Basically we can find something we actually fancy and there is no fantasy we can have as much as we want of the real experience. Now this costs and so it should. Fair exchange is no robbery.

Finding free sex or a relationship is not for me I have done it once in Thailand and gotten burned. Its fucking expensive. At this time of elder years , which applies to most members of this board. I want hole in one on the spot I don't want to play 10 rounds of golf to get it. And by the way free sex is always the most expensive in the long run

And I hope nobody will tell me I have never had or I am incapable of having a relationship. Actually I did have one for 20 years but not with a Thai.

School Fees, Motocy's, Parent's problems, Sister's kids, birthday, newyear and other presents, money to go out when you don't want to etc. etc. It all adds up and it gets very boring.

Alternatively, get an orphan who had to fend for himself and rightly feels that, although he is on good terms with most of them, he owes his elder brothers and sisters exactly what they gave him - nothing. It works for me!!

[dave_tf-old]

It's an easy distinction for me and my personality as a tourist. The bars are a convenience. If its just sex we are talking about, I am a little too shy even for Saunas much less active cruising. That doesn't mean I haven't struck up with guys in places where they weren't wearing numbers, but when I have had at most 10 days in country on earlier trips, the bars take the guess work out of it.

I'm sure people get tired of hearing about the 'old days', but I really think the bars were more fun then, overall, and not just meat markets.

It helps in my situation with my personality that I actually LIKE bar boys...at least the ones I like. And as has already been noted, it also helps that fun on holiday extends beyond coitus. Almost as often as not, I've taken guys out who I simply liked with no real plans to have sex. I don't need it every day, and don't get it every day at home...so, especially as I've gotten a bit older, it takes a less and less prominent part of both life and holiday.

It's been my experience that guys who don't feel like they are being used often warm up to a nice customer and, since thier libido is higher than mine, will make an unexpected move, or loosen up in bed. Even if it doesn't, I like them, I like spending time with younger people, enjoy exploring with somebody unjaded by entertainment, appreciate the little dramas, learn from my evolving role.

As far as LTR's go, I think I might have been lucky in that my first trips were made when it was financially impossible for me to attempt a Long Distance LTR. Since then, I've learned that it is emotionally impossible for me. So I prefer to spend a good holiday in the company of people I like, leave them better off than when I found them, and look forward (if their situation is good) to seeing them again. So far everybody I know is still happy to see me. That's good enough for me--friends and fuck-buddies.

You mileage may vary.

[Dodger]

Pay now - or, pay later...it all comes out in the wash!

When I first met the boy I'm now married to I was tipping him at the bar. The Bar owner got his cut (off fee), the mamasan usually horned in for a cut, the unlucky boys who hadn't been offed that night inevitably hit him up for a few baht for noodles, and, which is also customary in the working boy social circle, a boy who gets offed a lot must buy the bottle at the local karaoke or stand the chance losing face. It's similar to the multi-layer of open hands you deal with when making a donation to a favorite charity.

With a non-working boy, which I'm happy to say is the category my BF now falls in, the money you provide him goes directly in HIS pockets for him to use as he sees fit. He receives a lot less income now than he did on the working scene, although enjoys a larger profit margin.

mai pen rai

It depends on what you as an individual want.
If you want a few drinks, a quick poke and a bit of fun then go to the gogo bars.
If you want to get to know the guys who are in real jobs then join the crowds who wander round Babylon's corridors giving snooty looks to eachother; join gaydar and sit for hours in front of your computer getting propositions from guys you don't fancy or go to some shopping mall to try and sift the workers from the hookers!

But I also think that you would get a different set of replies if you asked the same question on other message boards. Example: if you asked on thaivisa.com's gay board then 90%+ would be extolling the virtues of their "Relationships" and giving snide comments to anyone who suggested going with a rent boy.

Does this mean that sawatdee forum members are mainly sluts?

[dave_tf-old]

are you really meeting nice guys there?

Usually. Admittedly I 'operate' differently than most, as I don't really do bar crawls and mostly stick with one bar where I am known. Even when the guy turns out not-so-nice...what is lost?


I am in the minority here?

Who knows. I think a lot of the readers who have relationships are reluctant to post about them. Can you imagine the replies to a poster saying he'd met a great guy at XOX art gallery? "I want to meet one too...where is this gallery?" "Is the gallery gay-friendly?" "How much is admission to the gallery?" "You fool! He is only interested in your etchings!"

Don't know what value this is to your query, but if I were expat I'd be more open to budding friendships with higher-class guys. Worth mentioning that having a guy in tow is a sure-fire way to keep others from expressing any interest (such happened at Doi Inthanarn a couple of trips back), so there's a downside.

Obviously guys with better jobs have much less time to spend with you. But, sure, I'd like to meet some guys with more than street-smarts and rural wisdom. No need to defend that preference on your part, I think.

[lonelywombat]

But I also think that you would get a different set of replies if you asked the same question on other message boards. Example: if you asked on thaivisa.com's gay board then 90%+ would be extolling the virtues of their "Relationships" and giving snide comments to anyone who suggested going with a rent boy.

Does this mean that sawatdee forum members are mainly sluts?

It seems to me that thaivisa is more expat than tourists. Many more inquiries here on SF are from visitors that want to be updated on whats happening, where, when and how much.

Adam Smith's capitalism at its best...

Or a splash of reality...

www.ricequeendiary.com/cash-counts.html (http://www.ricequeendiary.com/cash-counts.html)

[netrix]

Here's my perspective as a not-quite-over-the-hill farang who's been to Thailand only 3 times....

I don't see a need to choose between paying for casual sex and finding a casual relationship.
I've done both on each trip to Thailand and I enjoy the different encounters for different reasons.

By the way, I guarantee this forum is visited by many more younger guys than most of you
old-timers realize; we're just not interested in hearing all the hateful responses the youngsters
often get here when posting. I'm probably at least a couple of decades younger than a lot of
the farangs in Pattaya. I'm a good looking guy with all my hair and all my teeth. I probably
look REALLY young to the Thai boys in comparison to a lot of the farangs they see in the bars.
So neener, neener. Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

In fact, I donтАЩt have a problem finding plenty of free sex in my country, even with really hot,
young guys. I just had a fling this last 2 weeks with a gorgeous 19 yr old boy who was
convinced I was тАЬamazingтАЭ and тАЬperfect.тАЭ I wouldn't go that far, but the point is, it was just
sex тАУ for both of us. And guess what. In less than 2 weeks I spent about $700 on him all
together with travel, meals, entertainment and shopping, etc.
So I guess тАЬfree sexтАЭ doesnтАЩt really exist even outside of Thailand.

Why do I mention that? Well, I think it's relevant. A lot of gay guys of any age if they're in the
closet at home (although I am not) they're in heaven in a place like Thailand! Not everyone can
feel comfortable in their home city going into a gay bar or club and hitting on young guys. The
bars in Thailand make it really easy to find someone attractive to spend a few hours or a few
weeks with. Hence the appeal of paid sex.

And hereтАЩs couple of points in response to what was said above:
Yes you CAN find nice boys in the bars. And of course a "relationship" has expenses attached
to it, as it does in your home country as well, but I doubt the expense is as much in Thailand
as in Farangland, even when buying cell phones, etc.

I still keep in touch with boys I met on my first trip 3 years ago. One boy who was working
in a bar in Pattaya is now nearly finished with school and living in his town. Barboys don't
stay barboys forever. Many of them are open to the idea of finding a farang boyfriend, if
not actively looking for it. So the line is sometimes blurred between paid sex with a barboy,
and a casual or long term relationship.

My last trip at New Year's I spent about a week with each of two boys I met online. One is
a university graduate and has a good paying job. I had to drag him to Silom in BKK. He
had only been there once and didn't like it. When we took a taxi, half the time he paid for
it. He took me to dinner one night at a very nice restaurant and insisted on paying. He
never asked me for a single baht. When we went shopping, he bought his own things.

Similarly with the second boy I met online. In nearly a week, he did not ask for anything
from me (except lots of sex!) and he also pitched in for taxis and meals.

By the way, that reminds me...
I met a cute boy in a bar in Pattaya on the same trip and he spent 3 days with me. His
jeans were too big and kept falling down. He asked me to buy him a belt, which I did.

He also needed new shoes, his trainers had holes in them. I saw him looking at some
shoes and asked him if he wanted them. At first he said no, but I insisted. So we
looked at a few stores, checking the prices. Every pair he found he would put back
on the shelf and make a face and say "too much." I ended up spending about 300 bht
on some shoes he really liked, and he was so happy he couldn't stop smiling. He thanked
me a million times. Worth every baht!

This boy was very sweet and definitely not greedy. Did not ask for a cell phone or jewelry.
He hasn't even called me once asking for money for funerals or buffalos. Maybe I just
attract nice guys.

And maybe my opinion doesnтАЩt count for much since IтАЩm not a retired old bear, but the
bottom line for me is:

- Sex is fun, and in Thailand itтАЩs easy to find and pretty inexpensive
- Relationships of all kinds, even casual short term ones, are fulfilling in more ways than
sexually, and they usually cost a little more.
- In my experience, we seem to attract the kind of person we want when we try to be that
kind of person.

ThereтАЩs my two cents worth. Now feel free to let me have it. Be gentle though, IтАЩm a nice guy. :yaya:

I like it both ways. I've had a solid (open) relationship for almost 16 (time flies) years now. There's no big age difference and we could live our lives independently, if we wanted to. But being together is comfortable. We don't need money from each other. However, sometimes I like to go sleazing (I mean that in a positive way). And then there's nothing better than walking in to a bar, offing a boy, and 1 hour later you're done with it.

Oh, there's one more. I have one guy that I see every once in a while. He appreciates a bit of money, I like a bit of fun. Apart from that he has a menial job that does not pay much. Yet he never asks me for any "extras". I've also tried GayRomeo and such places for quickies. Sometimes it works, but sometimes you get these drama queens.

So what does that make me? A slutty husband with a mia noy, or a slut with a husband and a gig?

I'm 40 but look to everyone like I'm about 28.

Don't we all!!

Now feel free to let me have it. Be gentle though, IтАЩm a nice guy.

I thought nothing was free??

And maybe my opinion doesnтАЩt count for much ....

Why not? I happen to agree with it, but that is probably your death knell!