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Dodger
March 16th, 2008, 02:36
Hi you Maniacs.

WellтАжmy pre-holiday preparations are now in full swing as the launch date to Adventure #20 grows nearer. Only two more weeks to go, which marks almost four months since my feet have touched sand or felt the straps of my tattered sandals, and I canтАЩt wait. Actually, itтАЩs not the sand I miss so much, itтАЩs HIM, but I thought that sentence sounded nice.

Some of you probably remember my most recent escapades where I bonded with (married) my Thai BF (Su), and some of you havenтАЩt the foggiest. So for anyone reading this that may be in the fog, IтАЩll give you a little summary:

I hit the ground running in LOS about 9 years ago, butterflyтАЩd my ass off for 7 of those 9 years to the point that the very first time I heard the phrase тАЬHelicopterтАЭ it was being used in conjunction with a boy who was describing ME to others. IтАЩve had a dozen STLтАЩs (short time relationships) with various boys, a five year stint with a boy I referred to as Boy Special, dated a few non-working college type boys in places far off the beaten tourist track, and actually wrote a book on the subject which now sits on a shelf in my office straddled between a few framed pictures of HIM.

I know that you all have your own opinions (perspectives) about having LTRтАЩs with working boys, and my words here are not meant in any way to sway you from those opinions, just simply a means for me to express my own. IтАЩm also not suggesting, or promoting the fact that having a LTR with a working boy is the way to go, because, quite honestly, I think for most farangs, itтАЩs not the way to go.

Getting away from places like PTY, BKK and Phuket during my visits provided me with a much broader and deeper understanding of Thai culture, and this is something that I would recommend to anyone, especially farangs who plan on spending a lot of time in LOS, or already reside there. More specifically, anyone who wants to have a relationship (STR or LTR) with a Thai boy, outside of the routine of just offing them from a bar stage for a 1,000 baht hit in the hay. Once I started to understand their true natures I realized that there is absolutely no difference between the тАЬworking boysтАЭ and the тАЬnon-workingтАЭ boys except the clothes they sometimes wear and the amount of money they have to help support their families.

I havenтАЩt spent 4 months of every year for the past 9 years living and experiencing LOS without understanding a few things about the failure rate of LTRтАЩs between a farang and a Thai boy, althoughтАжand this will probably be tough for a few of youтАжI really could care less. The more I learned about them and myself through this fantastic journey, the more I came to realize why so many of these relationships fail so miserably. And I just said that with the full understanding that my relationship could fail miserably as well, although wonтАЩt allow the failure rate of others to steer my boat.

Not only did I marry a working boy, I married a fu*king maniac (just like me). HeтАЩs not at all the type that I was inclined to be with for any long period of time, nor do we share much in common. I like the discovery channel тАУ he likes cartoons, I like pop/rock music тАУ he listens to that weird Isaan folk junk, I prefer eggs & bacon in the morning тАУ he eats smelly fish with hot peppers, and the list goes on. As far as any intellectual conversationтАжforget it. If I mention the Swiss Alps he looks up in the sky and thinks IтАЩm talking about the craters on the moon, if I mutter a word about the economy, he looks in the cabinet to see how much rice is left in the bag and searches for change in his pockets. He doesnтАЩt even know where my country is located on a globe. He doesnтАЩt even know what a тАЬglobeтАЭ is! But for some strange and totally unexplainable reason I love him.

He is a ladyboy, tried and true, and a crazy one at that. I watched him transition over the years from a cute effeminate boy тАУ to a cute effeminate boy who started dressing a little feminine тАУ to a cute effeminate boy with small hormone induced tits who now alternates between dressing like a boy and a girl based on the alignment of the stars in the universe.. His moods also alternate between boy and girl. Once we spent a day walking up a small mountain that parallels the rice paddyтАЩs near his village. He was wearing a pair of baggy blue jeans and plain t shirt and had an old blue bandana wrapped around his forehead to keep the perspiration from running in his eyes. We were both hot, sweaty and filthy by the time we returned to his home. Two hours later he emerged from his house wearing makeup, a very short multi-colored mini-skirt, a pair of matching semi high-heeled shoes and a skimpy top that highlighted his small but noticeable tits. His gate changed from walking like any other boy, to walking like a formal runway model on TV, and he did this without even the least amount of concern in front of his entire family. There he was, standing on the front porch of his parents modest dwelling surrounded by rice paddies with a water buffalo posed in the background, looking like Ms.Teen Model. What really amazed me is not one single person, including his mother and father, showed any indication of interest in this whatsoever, not even the buffalo..

He is a truly amazing person, with a psycological fingerprint as complex as the universe and a personality as bright as the stars. In true nature, he is extremely shy which would appear to discount all the things IтАЩve said about him thus far, although, over time, he has learned to cope with his surroundings in a manner where his true shyness is usually concealed. His motives in life are quite clear, as is the case with most Thai boys (and girls). He wants to receive good merit from his family and the other members of his village, and be allowed to live a life as a member of the family and the villageтАжperiod!

ItтАЩs always been my opinion that in order to have a true relationship with a Thai boy, you first have to understand the dynamics of the family circle. I tried to describe my thoughts on this a while back on another thread and will try to do it again. In the West when a couple bonds they place themselves in the center of a circle. Around them in that circle are the parents and family members of both parties. In a str8 relationship, as the couple have children the circle grows, but again they (the couple) always remain at the center. In Thai culture (similar I expect to other Asian cultures), the parents of the Thai boy (or girl) are firmly positioned in the center of the circle. When the Thai boy bonds with a mate, regardless if he bonds with a farang or Thai, his mate simply enters the circle and the position of the parents never, and can never, be altered. ItтАЩs also my opinion that if a farang wants to bond, or just have a meaningful LTR with a Thai boy, he must find a way of bonding with the boys parents and other family members as well, or suffer the consequences of never being able to truly bond with HIM. The alternative of course, is if the boy youтАЩre with doesnтАЩt have a family.

I met SuтАЩs mother and father 2 1/2 years prior to our bonding and stayed with them and the other family members on several occasions in their village in Isaan. I learned as much as I could about them, their habit patterns, their beliefs, their life styles, and most importantly, about the true nature of Su. After a while it became clear to me that this is where his TRUE HAPPINESS resides. This is his mission in life. This is what theyтАЩre all about, nothing moreтАжand nothing less.

I also believe that he second most critical factor, in our relationship anyway, was the TRUST factor. This was at the root of every fight we ever had and the source of several break ups along the way as well. Neither one of us really ever trusted each other, even after living together for months at a time.. I know thatтАЩs sad to say, but itтАЩs the truth.

A pivotal moment in our relationship occurred, ironically, when we had both reached our darkest moments. I had a long and sincere talk with Su about our future together, and then wrote a long and sincere letter to his mother and father explaining the same points I was making to Su. We were at a point that we were either going to finish with each other permanently, or some major change (or miracle) had to occur. A few days after this confrontation, Su left PTY and returned home. He called me 3 days later and asked me to come up to his village. He went on to explain that his mother and father read the letter and wanted to talk to me. He expanded on this by saying that he wanted the same thing that I wanted and was willing to make THE CHANGE if I was. And thatтАЩs pretty much the transition weтАЩre both going through at this stage.

Su, never left his home village after my return home after the last holiday and shows no interest in ever returning to the bright lights of Pattaya again. This, in-and-by-itself is nothing short of a miracle as far as IтАЩm concerned. He went from a life of gold necklaces, parties, late-night discos, not to mention his addition to yaba, and, at least so far, hasnтАЩt looked back. We talk on the phone daily and he seems to enjoy handing the mobile to his mother or father, both of which have learned a few new English phrases. He avoids doing farm chores like the plague and has evolved into being the cook, not only for his direct family members, but the other villagers who work collaboratively in the same farm fields. His spends most afternoons either being captivated by the PayStation2 Game I gave him before I left town, or helping his mother and his sister collect fruit and vegetables for the evening feast. This may sound like the ultimate boredom to many (including me), but he seems to be content..

His parents take him on routine visits to the village monks. IтАЩm not sure if this is part of his rehabilitation from yaba, or just the extra luck they feel he needs in his relationship with me (LOL), but, whatever the reason, it seems to be helping things along. His voice sound healthy and his spirit seems to be flying. ItтАЩs becoming obvious that, after our bonding and SuтАЩs transition back to a normal life, that this has positioned him in a much higher standing in his village. Evan his father, who, for all practical purposes, totally alienated himself from Su years ago after realizing his son was of the feminine nature. Last month they worked on a project repairing SuтАЩs motor bike together. The TOGETHER part is significant here. Su also described how his father now takes him to the market when they shop for food, this being an invitation that never came in the past. All-in-all, SuтАЩs been doing his part тАУ now, itтАЩs my turn.

IтАЩll be returning to the Land of Oz in 2 weeks and for the first time in 9 years, wonтАЩt be renting the condo in Pattaya. No more luxury bath or ocean view balconyтАЩs, just a backpack and a basic room at the one-and-only hotel in the remote town of KantharalakтАжand I couldnтАЩt be happier. Regardless of what our futures hold, this trip is going to be nothing short of fantastic. We plan to travel a considerable amount which is something we really havenтАЩt done together before. He wants to go to Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai to visit relatives on his fatherтАЩs side of the family, and I want to spend a week or so on one of those floating house boats on the River Kuai near Kanchanaburi. We also plan to visit PTY to see friends and spend a few nights getting blasted at the disco, although wonтАЩt be staying there for very long.

Is this post a testament to some kind of successful long-termed relationship with a Thai boyтАжabsolutely not, as IтАЩm fully aware that things could change over-night. IтАЩm just simply choosing to express how happy I am right now - in this moment in my life. And whatтАЩs life really all about anyway? IsnтАЩt it just a continuation of those separate little moments?


Mai pen rai

Brad the Impala
March 16th, 2008, 03:33
Good luck Dodger. Your sense of self, your awareness of the realities of life and it's absurdities, make your personal posts well worth reading.

bing
March 16th, 2008, 03:40
Atta boy Dodger, you go boy.

dave_tf-old
March 16th, 2008, 06:17
I'm only sad at all the caveats you are compelled to include in deference to your dear readers. Well..that and the fact I won't be travelling with you.

Enjoy your preparations. Have a great trip. Be careful of Pattaya.

March 16th, 2008, 07:45
Wonderful insights Dodger, and very relevant too

Bob
March 16th, 2008, 08:26
Thanks for sharing, Dodger. Interesting insights that make me smile/wonder about my own relationship with Mr. Special (also, at various times, called Mr. Stubborn, Mr. Irresponsible, Mr. Inscrutable, etc.).

March 16th, 2008, 08:35
I am about 5 weeks away from my next trip.
It was very nice to read your post
I think for now i will keep my butterfly wings awhile longer

March 16th, 2008, 10:21
.... I watched him transition over the years from a cute effeminate boy тАУ to a cute effeminate boy who started dressing a little feminine тАУ to a cute effeminate boy with small hormone induced tits who now alternates between dressing like a boy and a girl based on the alignment of the stars in the universe.. His moods also alternate between boy and girl. ...
....Mai pen rai

Dodger, I think we are 2 heads on the same Hydra! Except for the details I could have written your post.

Two things I'd like to emphasize:
1) If you want to have any chance of a successful relationship you must, Must, MUST get the boy out of Pattaya. The place is just too full of bad temptations and more importantly bad peer pressure. Send the boy back to mama and the buffaloes and you'll both be happier.

2) One absolutely has to come to grips with the family situation in the boy's life. If you come into a relationship with the attitude "I married the boy and not his family" you're going to just be setting yourself up for a lot of lies and a lot of grief. And sometimes the buffalo really does die. And when it does it is your problem. And if it all seems like its getting to be too much just ask Uncle Somchai to fire up the still and you'll all be feeling better in no time. :drunken:

Sometimes it can be a bit hard to have to stand by and let the young guy make his own choices. I've had to bite my tounge many a time and remember how I felt when I was 20 and my dad was telling me how I should live my life. I'll give you a heads up and helpful hint when the "boobs" issue comes up (and it will, I assure you).
Boyfriend and I have had some discussion and after a lot of roundabout he let drop that he would only want boobs when he was young and attractive but later when he got "old and ugly" he would take them out. I told him there was no way I could afford to pay $2000 us for a "Fashion Statement" and if that's what he wanted he'd have to save up for it. Lately he's been lobbying for a new pickup truck. I told him if he wanted a new truck there was no way we could afford boobs.
Now I don't care how much a ladyboy you have on your hands; ANY guy, given the choice of a truck or a new set of knockers, would choose the truck withought batting a long, mascara covered eyelash. :cheers:

Brad the Impala
March 16th, 2008, 10:31
.... I watched him transition over the years from a cute effeminate boy тАУ to a cute effeminate boy who started dressing a little feminine тАУ to a cute effeminate boy with small hormone induced tits who now alternates between dressing like a boy and a girl based on the alignment of the stars in the universe.. His moods also alternate between boy and girl. ...
....Mai pen rai

Dodger, I think we are 2 heads on the same Hydra! Except for the details I could have written your post.

Two things I'd like to emphasize:
1) If you want to have any chance of a successful relationship you must, Must, MUST get the boy out of Pattaya. The place is just too full of bad temptations and more importantly bad peer pressure. Send the boy back to mama and the buffaloes and you'll both be happier.

2) One absolutely has to come to grips with the family situation in the boy's life. If you come into a relationship with the attitude "I married the boy and not his family" you're going to just be setting yourself up for a lot of lies and a lot of grief. And sometimes the buffalo really does die. And when it does it is your problem. And if it all seems like its getting to be too much just ask Uncle Somchai to fire up the still and you'll all be feeling better in no time. :drunken:


As you say, Dodger emphasised these thoughts in his original post, and I, like you, concur, that without embracing these principles, the relationship is unlikely to proceed.

catawampuscat
March 16th, 2008, 11:13
Dodger's personal story is inspirational and he tells the good, the bad and the ugly.
Dodger's eyes are wide open and he is no fool.

My only bit of advice or suggestion is to keep Su out of Pattaya and Sunee Plaza. The recovery
takes time and Sunee Plaza and its environs are just too tempting.

It surprises me sometimes, how many farangs I have met in Thailand are in AA and recovered alcoholics.
It further surprises me how they can spend so much time in bars, albeit drinking soft drinks but sitting
with others downing gin and tonics and all the rest. Some of the lushes should be in AA but that is another story..

I believe drugs have a more insidious pull than liquor but either way, it seems like the right idea to keep
Su away from the temptations.

Don't you love unsolicited advice from busybodies? :cat:

March 16th, 2008, 11:49
This is for you Dodger, and all our friends out there....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTLJouEQ9qw&feature

March 16th, 2008, 19:53
Dodger, a lovely post, had me laughing and in tears( then again i always was an fool for love) i am too shy to connect in this way with a Thai, in fact i have "dow cheu" tattooed ( in Thai script natch ) above the butterfly on my shoulder, as one Thai man said to me after seeing it, " no need to ask". i do admire those who persevere as you have, and it seems you will reap the rewards, both the good and the more challenging. best of luck to you both. Love from a stranger.....

March 16th, 2008, 21:26
Hi Dodger,

I am glad you are able to write such a post, at this time, I remember your rather desperate posts about drugs and the sheer impossibility to get of that vicious circle they create. You stated the most important point, at present at the moment, Buddhists might say moment to moment awareness in your post. In my view the most important perspective when talking about any relationship not only in LOS. I wish you 2 all that it needs to keep the LTR on such a "high".

inspired by you postings about the drug situation I mentioned a project (not exactly a LTR) with a boy and his problems with yabaa. These news are simpler to be put. He lost his job has no more room and is back on the street more or less, no family to go or to send him to. We talk once a week on the phone and he is devastated and in between always tells me. pom mai mi anakod...

I will be going to LOS in 2 weeks as well. Since my mom is coming too, there will be a lot of traveling, I always wanted to make such a houseboat trip myself. Maybe there is a way to combine one or two trips within our trip, if you wish so. (in the back of my mind I am thinking of a few counseling hours that might help me to find new ways to have a little bit more success in the above mentioned project).
I tried to PM you sometimes that somehow does not get through to you. It would be nice if you could send mails to my private mail account, if you still have it.

life is what you make it

MaX

TrongpaiExpat
March 16th, 2008, 21:47
Hi I always wanted to make such a houseboat trip myself.

MaX

I think the houseboats Dodger is talking about is really a building on floats that is fixed to the bank and acts as a hotel. It don't go anywhere.

There's loads of them in Kanchanaburi from simple to quite luxurious.

Dodger
March 16th, 2008, 22:16
First, I'd like to thank you guys for your thoughtful comments and well wishes, as I'm sure I'll need them up-the-road.

A few responses:

Murxi:
I'll try to send you a PM.

Trongpai:
The house boat I was referring to is a separate floating teak house supporting by pontoons. These houses are tethered together with ropes, as well as to the shore so they don't float away. In the morning, the Thai hosts untie the ropes, tether the house to the back of a long boat, and serve you breakfast as the house is being tugged slowly down the foggy and mysterious ambiance of the Kuai River.

Those who have taken the River Kuai Tour have probably experienced these fabulous river dwellings as well I'm sure. It was the highlight of my first trip to Kanchaburi, thus the reason I plan to return.

For those who haven't experienced this, you should give it a try. The house boats are constructed of teak with clay roofs and include the basics including a fairly comfortable bed. Each house has its own private bamboo deck stretching out about 12 feet in the river. The surroundings are double canopy jungle and enriched with the sounds of strange insects, tropical birds and the occasional splash of an alligators tails. It's right out of a Tarzan movie. If you are the type who enjoys a romantic atmosphere - this place can't be beat. I took Boy Special there once which became one of my most treasured memories in LOS.

Cat:
I appreciated your comments, especially your cautionary note about Su and I going to PTY. Ironically, I just got off the phone with him this morning and that topic came up again. His response to my question about PTY was short and to the point. He said that if I want to go there to visit friends for a few days - that's fine, but he did not want to go there at all. He may not be too intellectual, but he's always had the edge on me in the "smart" category so I will respect his decision.

Thanks again.

mai pen rai

March 17th, 2008, 01:58
There was a major clamp-down on these houseboats a couple of months ago. The "Disco boats" that used to go virtually all night have been banned totally, which is no real loss to the environment or those living along the river, and the house boats you refer to are far more closely controlled and monitored, although they are still available.

Brad the Impala
March 17th, 2008, 02:18
There was a major clamp-down on these houseboats a couple of months ago. The "Disco boats" that used to go virtually all night have been banned totally, which is no real loss to the environment or those living along the river, and the house boats you refer to are far more closely controlled and monitored, although they are still available.

I think some supervision of this business, especially from a health/safety point of view, is a plus.

Is the river Kwai named so as in the meaning of buffalo? Open question, but "The Bridge Over The River Buffalo" doeasn't have quite the same ring to it!

dave_tf-old
March 17th, 2008, 05:47
He said that if I want to go there to visit friends for a few days - that's fine, but he did not want to go there at all. He may not be too intellectual, but he's always had the edge on me in the "smart" category so I will respect his decision.

Excellent.

Beachlover
March 19th, 2008, 13:40
Good luck Dodger!

I really can't wait to hear all about what happens.

March 19th, 2008, 19:06
Fabulous Dodger, a great post and a thoroughly good read as always. Best of luck and best wishes to you both for your forthcoming trip. I hope I get the chance to hook up with you for a beer when you are in Pattaya for those three days.

Choc Dee,


George.

March 19th, 2008, 20:05
Man, great post.
I have a very rough relationship with a boy and your post was very illuminating. I constantly wonder what it is about him that keeps me interested, despite all the drama. Yet I remain and he does too. I often feel that it would be better for us if it just ended but can't do it.

Personally the idea of living in the village and doing something productive is appealing but the expectations of the village would probably always be that I was a 'rich' falang. That's what I find difficult too deal with in the in the LOS and which I have never faced, or to such a degree anyway, in the 'western world'.

puckered_penguin
March 20th, 2008, 21:30
The problems of living together are illustrated in the following;

SEVEN KINDS OF SEX
Results of a recent research shows that there are seven kinds of sex.

1. The 1st kind of sex is called: Smurf Sex.
* This kind of sex happens when you first meet
Someone and you both have sex until you are
BLUE in the face.

2. The 2nd kind of sex is called: Kitchen Sex.
* This is when you have been with your partner
For a short time and you are so needy you will
Have sex anywhere, even in the kitchen.

3. The 3rd kind of sex is called: Bedroom Sex.
* This is when you have been with your partner
for a long time. Your sex has gotten routine and
You usually have sex only in your bedroom.

4. The 4th kind of sex is called: Hallway Sex
* This is when you have been with your partner
For too long. When you pass each other in the
Hallway you both say "screw you."

5. The 5th kind of sex is called: Religious Sex.
* Which means you get Nun in the morning, Nun
In the afternoon and Nun at night.(This is Very Popular)

6. The 6th kind is called Courtroom Sex.
* This is when you cannot stand your partner any
more. He sues you for palimony and screws you
in front of everyone.

7. And; Last, but not least,
The 7th kind of sex is called: Social Security Sex.
* You get a little each month.
But not enough to enjoy your self.

Impulse
March 21st, 2008, 05:50
And if you get married,there are three rings. the first is the engagement ring,then comes the wedding ring,and finally comes the suffering.

ceejay
March 21st, 2008, 07:56
Rocket!! that joke is ancient :joker: :joker:

The first time I heard that, it was Derek Nimmo in "All Gas and Gaiters".

Oops - showing my age :colors:

March 21st, 2008, 08:44
Rocket!! that joke is ancient :joker: :joker:

The first time I heard that, it was Derek Nimmo in "All Gas and Gaiters".

Oops - showing my age :colors:

Actually that joke was first told at Caesars' Palace.

Julius Caesar's Palace. (bad-a-boom!) :cheers: