Being terrorised in Sunee

There's this lad who I bump into from time to time while walking around Sunee. He looks like a nasty piece of work, and is always asking me for money, so I try my best to avoid speaking with him. On the odd occasions that I can't ignore him, I simply smile at him and say something like "yes, yes, later, later..." and walk away.

Last night he managed to corner me while I was having a drink on my own. He again asked me for money, and I told him outright "No". I finished my drink and checked bin, whilst he carried on asking me for money. He mentioned that I had told him "later" before, and asked me if I was joking him. I told him I was, and that I had no intention of giving him any money, at which point he told me "wanted to speak with me outside". I'm not a particularly violent man, but I won't be bullied, so I stood up and asked him if he was sure, at which point he pointed over to a couple of his friends waiting and watching, as if to signal to me that it wouldn't just be him I was fighting.

My change from the check bin arrived, a fifty note and 10 Baht coin. I picked up the note, and tipped the coin onto the floor for him to pick up, and walked across to another bar where I knew some of the Thai staff. For all of the time I sat at that bar, him and his cronies kept walking past and staring at me, making it clear that I'm now some sort of marked man.

This has put a bit of a dampner on my holiday here if I'm honest. I feel as if I have to keep watching over my shoulder everywhere I go, and considering I'm holidaying here alone, it has made me realise just how vulnerable I am. The last thing I want to do is go to the police. Only two outcomes can come from this 1) They're not even bothered or 2) They make me walk around Sunee with an officer, so I can point the people out to them, which I'm guessing would just make a bad situation even worse.

Standing up to bullies is all well and good, but when you're alone in a foreign country, and that bully has an army of friends behind him, I think I would be stupid to even try. I'm guessing there's no easy answer to this, but if anyone has any suggestions?

maroonedmind,
Something very very similar happened to me last month. I was in Skye bar, and he rolls up, and says he remembers me from Sports bar (Dangs bar -- now the Corner bar). he had dyed blond hair, about 5 foot 6. He also threatened me, but on standing l am
6 foot 4, and not the winner of slimmer of the year, he backed down, but still wanted money, as he had no where to stay. I gave a one off of 20 baht, and said never again. I was convinced one night he was following me......
Sad thing is it put me off going to Skye bar, as l like to sit there when everywhere else is shut by myself.
He did try it again at Duc's, but l ignored him.
Advise? I cant give any really, just try and sit with a crowd, so he would find it hard to pressure you.

[lonelywombat]

Last year I was in a small restaurant in Sunee when a boy came in and blurted his problems in Thai to the owner.
He had an off and was going back to his bar after , when he was stopped by a Thai Thug who demanded half his tip.
He was told he would be killed if he did not pay.

I did not want to get involved, this was not a farang scam. He was terrified.
The thug was operating in the soi opposite White Knight and in the next soi towards VC Pattaya

I did not understand why the boys went back to the bar after their off , but they said he writes down every off anyway.

If it was not for the obvious fear and that I was not involved, I would have forgotten it.

I had not understood when I had an off, the boys wanted to go to the opposite end to get a taxi bike.

We do not understand what is going on under the surface. I was frightened to take the above boy off. So sad he was so hot.

[jolyjacktar]

Your best bet is to not get involved with them. Try sticking to the boystown area for a few days where your proberly a lot safer. I dont like Sunnee myself and nearly always enjoy Pattayaland far better. I know you said you hate to be bullied, this i can understand but dont let the scum spoil your holiday, just change your area of night time activities and with a bit of luck they will soon get fed up looking for you and forget you. Dont even speak to them if you run into them again, just walk away.
Hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday.

No matter ones capabilities, a fight with a Thai is likely to be a losing proposition for a falang. It is likely the Thai will employee his friends or weapons or both and leave you lying on the soi unconscious and bleeding. Just read recent copies of Pattaya Mail, Pattaya People, etc.

Should you win a physical altercation and the police become involved, unless you have good Thai friend witnesses, the police are likely to ignore the root cause. They may find you the person at fault and you may even find yourself in a position of having to compensate the other party.

The best approach is to avoid conflict. Be assertive, donтАЩt joke, and even donate a few baht. Be clear as recommended by Pattayapolice that this is a one and only donation.

If you feel real uncomfortable, there are other areas to enjoy drinks and the boys. Visit these until things blow over.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

and everyone elses..first never ever even consider fisticuffs with a Thai. You will always lose either legally or physically eventually.

This is not a unique situation and people find themselves in it all the time including locals who act as though they are deaf dumb and blind when approached ..having gotten a sixth sense about the really desperate ones..and sadly there are some desperate souls. There are plenty of nice lads around who get tipped all the time and know when to judge whether it's the right time to ask or take a knock back in a friendly way but every now and then you come across a persistent one who will drive you completely nuts.

If you give into the very badgering ones that appear aggressive I'm afraid they will just come back and harass you again..the best you can do is just avoid the area or find yourself a handy Thai friend who likes to see off the competition.

My change from the check bin arrived, a fifty note and 10 Baht coin. I picked up the note, and tipped the coin onto the floor for him to pick up,

Yet another demonstration of a 'superior' farang throwing coins to watch the local 'peasants' grovel for money on the floor.

Would it have been so difficult for you to just give the guy 10Baht and in the process probably have saved yourself for becoming a marked man?

As Raksiam has said, on a prior meeting when asked for money you said "Yes later" which if you had not intention of giving him money was your first mistake. firstly you should never make a promise to a Thai that you do not intend to be taken seriously and certainly not in the area that you are frequenting.

I'm sorry to hear of your predicament. Unfortunately life is cheap in Thailand and a foreigner's life is even cheaper. The boy and his mates may not have a strong motive to hurt you from our western perspective, but from their's, they'll do it simply because they CAN. What's another farang life. They know they'll get away with it, not least because of the "I'm alright Jack" attitudes prevalent in the expat "community" :pukeleft:. Sure, they'll all band together and eulogise you when you're already worm food but when you're in a life and death situation like this, nobody wants to rock the boat to assist for fear of retribution from the Thais, usually the one at home in the form of the Beloved.

The first thing you should do now is to inform somebody back home, somebody you trust, of your exact whereabouts and the situation you're in. That person will be your lifeline until you're safely on that plane out of the Land of Smiles. Make an arrangement to phone/e-mail them regularly and for them to get suspicious if they do not hear from you after an agreed amount of time. As a preventive measure, heed the good advice that has been offered to you above. Keep your head low and stick to busy, well-lit places with lots of "normal" tourists. Stay sober and don't stay out late.

Good luck.

Yes, I have several suggestions, and some comments too.

I go to Sunee most nights when I'm in Pattaya and have for years. I know many other guys and bar owners who go to Sunee daily, and neither myself or the others I know have been threatened by the boys that beg.

After rereading your post I would have to say that it appear to me that you are culturally insensitive, may have some serious human relation problems and interact poorly with those much less fortunate than yourself. I get a sense from reading your post that you are a rather aggressive person mixed with some booze...not a pretty combination.

Examine your own post.... "so I try my best to avoid speaking with him. On the odd occasions that I can't ignore him, I simply smile at him and say something like "yes, yes, later, later..." A much more culturally appropriate response would have been a big smile, eye contact, and politely saying "My ou krup." (No, thank you)....Calmness and polite behavior will go a long way.

Your behavior with the boy in the bar was way off the mark...."He again asked me for money, and I told him outright "No". I finished my drink and checked bin, whilst he carried on asking me for money. He mentioned that I had told him "later" before, and asked me if I was joking him. I told him I was, and that I had no intention of giving him any money, at which point he told me "wanted to speak with me outside". I'm not a particularly violent man, but I won't be bullied, so I stood up and asked him if he was sure"....What the hell were you thinking????????? You said later....later means later. You should have given him some money if you said that you would. Your first mistake in the bar was saying "No" after you had said "Later". As to the threat of a fight and your response to it...and then being so stupid as to tip the ten baht coin on to the floor, I can only say that your head was so far up you ass there is little hope of anyone prying it loose. You chose to express your unhappiness with him by throwing the ten baht on the floor for him to crawl after????? Your behaviors are the kind of actions that cause farang to go flying, get stabbed, and shot.

[atri1666]

I agree 100% with you Soi 10 Tom. In over 20 years thailand never have had such problems.

[catawampuscat]

Also agree 100% with Soi 10 Tom..

I can imagine how pissed off the boy must have felt, when the poster threw a coin on the floor for him to pick up..
Only advise one can give is for him to stay out of Sunee Plaza and remember he is a visitor in a foreign country and
to think before he acts..
Sunee very safe unless you provoke someone or stay out in the wee hours, wear gold jewelry and flash lots of cash..
No place safe if you behave poorly.. :cat:

Soi 10 Tom

Amen to this.
Later is later, and not keeping a promise to a thai is the worst thing a farang can do. In their eyes you are not only a stupid farang, but a liar too.
To let the coin fall or throwned to the floor is a very offending and humiliating act from you.
I am sure you felt some problems with this guy, but the way you acted all the way, made yourself into you own worst enemy.
I have no sympathy for the guy, but feel pity for you the way you act.
For god sake, being on holiday, is not the same as behaving like a fool.
Take care, run away a fast as possible, and take the rest of you holiday in Bangkok or Chian Mai.
I hope you have learned your lesson.

"This guy is on holiday and you can't expect him to be savvy in Thai cultural standards."

But they should try. This quote reminds me of how often I am embarrassed, when I see farangs behave like elephants in a glasshouse.

[Jetsam]

I know out of own experience that there are some very nasty money beggars in Sunee , but if you make it clear that you are not interested and insist on that, they eventually leave you alone, I think the big fault the OP make was this reply to the guy : "yes, yes, later, later..." , I can't really blame him to try again later, or later again, ....

[globalwanderer]

Later means later so the OP has caused the problem. To a Thai a promise is a promise. Would it have been so hard to say No the first time and every following time until the guy gave up This was made worse by the dropping 10Bht on the floor and the confrontation. I suggest if he has not already done so the OP keeps a low profile out of the Sunee area, and thinks before he speaks in future.

"Yet another demonstration of a 'superior' farang throwing coins to watch the local 'peasants' grovel for money on the floor. " I think the OP made a bad situation worse. The whole money on the floor thing isn't a problem because it shows an attitude of superiority. It's a problem because all of the money has the image of THE KING!!!! The floor and your feet are extremely dirty and unholy according to Thai beliefs. Putting the image of THE KING on the floor is a HUGE insult to most Thai people.

Obviously the OP doesn't know anything about Thai culture.

- ajarntrade

You know this takes me back to a situation I had in Morocco, I was talking to a person in a outdoors type caf├й and along came a local guy who was acting rather lethargic, quiet etc. He improvised to me "do I have a cigarette", so I improvised back politely "I don't smoke". I also spoke to him saying "sorry I don't smoke". I assume he did not speak English or his knowledge of it was very limited. Anyway, this guy kept hanging around for a few minutes trying to attract my attention for a cigarette, or in the end a little money, to the point where it was becoming annoying. Thinking that I had the upper hand (if that is the correct terminology), I did not get aggressive, but just said "sorry" don't have all the time - taking on board I was also talking to someone and trying to have a conversation. However, I still did not get annoyed or anything. This kept going on - then suddenly, that lethargic, quiet guy sprung up and called me every bad word there was in the swearword dictionary, along with his English language also. I was dumb-founded, it took my breath away. He knew more bad words than me. Nothing happened but that was the end of it. Morale of the story; be alert; move away if necessary; stay and frequent popular places where falang go (mind you, that's a problem in its own right).

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

that are bringing our the truth..it's like a session with a therapist.

although the thread poster may not know the cultural sensibilities of Thailand if he's on a short visit-nor should be castigated because of that, it does help to read up on them which is why they give you those little booklets in planes on the way there.

it escaped me that bit..throwing the coin on the floor..one must always consider that money should never be used that way because of the likeness of a certain person on it and although not taken seriously by some..it can be enough to tip someone over the edge..(and yes..off a balcony)

and later later..can be taken literally as later....an an invitation to bother one..

you are dealing with incredibly poor people and must for a moment think like them(or like me..live like them)

[dab69]

what do they call those 100,00 volt
personal protection devices? I know
they sell
them there... tasers?

... remember he is a visitor in a foreign country and to think before he actsDoubtless an American

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

"He knew more bad words than me. "..

was it perchance "you bald fat old cunt " which a previous poster on here was called ,not only quite correctly but in his own country.

I too spent a lot of time in Morocco and had many experiences -it is one of my favorite places and one of my ex b/f''s has made me godfather to his children ( which means I think he expects to be included in the will )..they are charming though.

But in Marrakesh once I had a charming lad who I would meet in an outdoor cafe who always ushered me inside. Now I'm quite used to people being highly embarrassed being seen with me but I once asked him "why ?".."secret police everywhere !" he said eyes darting all over the place. It made it that much more exciting.

DELETED

I also have never had a problem in Sunee or any where else for that matter.

You really should back down in any conflict with a Thai, don't think you are back at home. Thai men are huge cowards, they don't loose face by getting their mates to get involved in their fights. They also don't think twice about killing someone and don't ever think about the consequences of their actions.

Good advice in smile and walk away.

John,

Good advice but difficult to follow sometimes, you really do get the scum of the Earth down there, especially late night!

A lot of Farangs, I have seen this, go there to get the not necessarily underage, but definitely the cheaper end of the market, those that will enter toilets in the snooker bar for five minutes at 200/300 baht!

But then, this goes with the territory, the mafiosa behaviour of the money lenders, drug dealers and those pimping underage.

Also, you have the particular ones who people know to be either past the sell by, and/or known thieves which the local ex pats have wised up to, and so they prey on tourists.

You can, as has been suggested, move areas, there is more to Pattaya than Sunnee Plaza

I have witnessed violence in Day-Night and walking street also. I think Pattaya attract the worst people from Thailand and the world like flies on a dog shit. But that is not the question here. The question is how to react smart and not get yourself into troubles.
BTW I have not seen so much annoing people and violence like in Pattaya any other places in Thailand. I don't want to make this into pro or contra Pattaya discussion, but could not stop.
Please wherever you are play safe and smart, and it does not hurt to learn about the culture of the people and country you are visiting. :flower:

[Shuee]

i do sympathise with this poster, as this is a terrible situation to be in when you suppose to be having fun on your holiday, & the last thing you want to do is keep looking behind you.
you have done well with your reples to this post, mainly, & i hope that acts as some kind of consolation.

a bar owner pointed out a thai guy in sunee who is well very known for this type of behavoiur, in fact he had come out of jail about 8 months ago for slapping a farlang, who he kept pesturing for money, its does actually sound like the same guy who also uses that 'do you remember me' trick

heres a few points you may want to consider;
you can get the police involve indirectly, take a picture of this poeple/persons without them knowing (make sure your flash is switched off!), or lend you camera to someone you trust to do this for you if you feel you are being watched too much, then take this to the police & point the guy out to them. A little i elaboration on the subject with what actually happen, will hope to make sure the police do act. (yes i too saw him waving that knife at you!!)
After all the police probably know the guy & remember him too, so if you dont have a camera, they may know who he is any way! Just describe to them as much as you can

This is something i use ONLY as a very last resort, & if all else has failed, or in your case, going to the police for a quick chat, has failed & then time is against you so you want to enjoy your holiday before it ends.
So you could consider befriending the guy, smiling & or rubbing his shoulers briefly, ask him how he is today, & then just keep walking, but still try hard not to tip him. YOu have to do this tactfully as he may see this as you trying to demean him.

i'm sure if you succeed with the police action, you will get many farlangs who wish to buy you a drink, as i'm sure your not the only one being hassled here

Make sure all the bar owners know this guy is hassling you & that you are considering not returning to their bars until the he's gone or been dealt with

i hope you can enjoy the rest of your holiday, & how many time have we all said later later, knowing only too well that we had no intention of acting upon it - good luck

... remember he is a visitor in a foreign country and to think before he actsDoubtless an American

That was uncalled for. Americans seem to be the butt of all jokes these days, and it's not deserved. Granted, there are a few loud, obnoxious and rude Americans, but there are loud, obnoxious and rude people from ever country on earth. I've been here long enough to see it. Being South African, I know my folk have also been equated with the culturally bereft, but I'd consider myself quiet and mindful of other people's feelings and personal space. I know plenty of Americans who act the same: polite, mindful, quiet and charming. Don't issue blanket generalizations, it makes you and your arguments lose credibility.

As for the topic - it's a shame this gentleman was harassed and threatened by the local Sunee "villainry" (my own word). But he is just as culpable as the street thugs. "Throwing" money on the ground for someone else to pick up is disrespectful in any country. The minute you did that, and this guy had to get down and pick up the coin from the floor, you caused him to lose face in a big way. Causing a Thai to lose face is one of the three things that will cause Thai people to break away from their normal non-confrontational demeanor and move to the offensive. The others are money, and disrespecting "you know who". Remember, it's not in these boys' best interests to be threatening to the tourists that pay their bills - if they're acting in such a manner, there is always a reason. Perhaps they received too small a short-time fee?

Sure a short-stay tourist will have a less-than-perfect understanding of local culture - but that's what guidebooks are for. It's a different country and culture, and it's the responsibility of the visitor to become acquainted with these customs before embarking on holiday. This is their country, and they make the rules. I've lived here for seven years, and I've never had any problems in Sunee or anywhere else. It's a constant in ALL cultures: people will treat somebody in the same manner as they themselves have been treated.

A10

[bigben]

Welcome ashoka10 or is it A10?

Welcome to the board. Let's see, join 2 days ago, and has lived here for what was it?? 7 years.

I am sure happy to have you aboard as I am sure others will welcome you as well.

:pukeright: :pukeright: :pukeright:

[Diec]

This is just my 2 cents worth but I don't get this:

"Causing a Thai to lose face is one of the three things that will cause Thai people to break away from their normal non-confrontational demeanor and move to the offensive."

Where is their face when they lie, steal, drug you, and always try to cajole farang from their money? It takes me a long time to take a trip to Thailand. I think if farang would stop throwing money around like it means nothing to them and think of the rent boys as a business prospective instead of falling in love with them after two days, they may have a little more respect for us.

I also don't get this:

It's a different country and culture, and it's the responsibility of the visitor to become acquainted with these customs before embarking on holiday. This is their country, and they make the rules.

Pattaya is a tourist trap and one would think by now they are familiar with farang. If it wasn't for tourists, Pattaya would fold up and dissapear. If I want to give money to someone I will but how dare they come up to me and say "remember me? Give me some money." Now I have to be the one to make sure they don't "lose face"? Once when I was at the beach a very handsome male model was there from Australia, he was white, not asian. You would not believe how talk spread around the beach about the handsome farang and I can guarantee not one of those boys asked this model for money. They would have fought each other for a chance to sleep with him "free of charge with no tip needed."

Here in my country, when someone asks me for money or a cigarette I simply smile and say I'm sorry I don't have any extra money or cigarettes. I'm sure the posters here know how to do that in their own country, what makes Thailand different? Why can't people do the same? It's the same thing if a telemarketer calls, it's my dime and if I don't want to speak to them I tell them I'm sorry I'm not interested and hang up.

It's terrible to have an expensive vacation ruined by one little punk.

"Now I have to be the one to make sure they don't "lose face"? Once when I was at the beach a very handsome male model was there from Australia, he was white, not asian. You would not believe how talk spread around the beach about the handsome farang and I can guarantee not one of those boys asked this model for money. They would have fought each other for a chance to sleep with him "free of charge with no tip needed."

I don't get it.. Sure you will lose face if you think you can compare yourself into a handsome male model, and have the same "treatment". Well I am not that young and handsome as 3 years ago, but maybe I still have the carma. I know I have ;-)

BTW last time on pattaya beach, there was this nice guy, asking me for money and a cigarret , "oh not many tourist", we chatted, and at the end I said to him, okay, but give me some ┬╜ hour footmassage. We were both happy.

Relax and enjoy life all you angry old men.

cnx4shan

You are so correct. Maybe I should not have gone into this discussion. Maybe I see you in May, not in Pattaya, but in Chiang Mai, where my farang and thai friends will meet me with respect because i do the same.

I certainly would not limit the shameless farang to Pattaya; I have seen the same types in Chiang Mai. Classless ill mannered pigs comes from all countries and spread themselves across the globe like a cheap slime. Pattaya does attract more than its fair share because of the number of tourist that come to Pattaya in search or booze and sex, but they are also to be found in some numbers in Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, London, Berlin, New York and every other city of the world searching for booze and sex.

The basic problem is that these pathetic souls had poor training as children and have developed into the dysfunctional adults that we see wondering as tourist the streets of the world. I think that most of them are dysfunctional in their home cultural and think that their problems are everyones fault except their own. They come to Thailand, or anywhere else, thinking that everything will be fine.....only to find out that they are as screwed up in other countries as they are in their home country.

This is just my 2 cents worth but I don't get this:

"Causing a Thai to lose face is one of the three things that will cause Thai people to break away from their normal non-confrontational demeanor and move to the offensive."

Where is their face when they lie, steal, drug you, and always try to cajole farang from their money? It takes me a long time to take a trip to Thailand. I think if farang would stop throwing money around like it means nothing to them and think of the rent boys as a business prospective instead of falling in love with them after two days, they may have a little more respect for us.

True, that many tourists walk around and smugly toss their dosh around as if it grows on trees. This is beside the point, however. For Thais, it is not a loss of face to ask for money from someone. If a boy goes up to a farang and demands "Yee-sip, kin khao", and the farang gives up that green note no questions asked, it's a GAIN of face because this boy realizes the power he has over this guy. Receiving money for doing absolutely nothing. That's what people aspire to achieve their entire lives (if not all, yous truly at least!).

So what's not to get? Embarrass a Thai in front of their peers, such as tossing a coin down on the dirty floor for them to pick up, that Thai no longer has respect for you. This guy obviously did *something* to warrant such as response, however trivial.


I also don't get this:

It's a different country and culture, and it's the responsibility of the visitor to become acquainted with these customs before embarking on holiday. This is their country, and they make the rules.

Pattaya is a tourist trap and one would think by now they are familiar with farang. If it wasn't for tourists, Pattaya would fold up and dissapear. If I want to give money to someone I will but how dare they come up to me and say "remember me? Give me some money." Now I have to be the one to make sure they don't "lose face"? Once when I was at the beach a very handsome male model was there from Australia, he was white, not asian. You would not believe how talk spread around the beach about the handsome farang and I can guarantee not one of those boys asked this model for money. They would have fought each other for a chance to sleep with him "free of charge with no tip needed."

I've denied yee-sip's on countless occasions. If you don't want to give them money, you *can* be nice about it. Boys know not to just come up and *demand* money from me. I don't toss money around like some of these clowns I've seen. If you set dangerous precedents in the beginning, they will end up haunting you in the end. As for the model, if he came to Sunee, he'd be treated like any other farang.


Here in my country, when someone asks me for money or a cigarette I simply smile and say I'm sorry I don't have any extra money or cigarettes. I'm sure the posters here know how to do that in their own country, what makes Thailand different? Why can't people do the same? It's the same thing if a telemarketer calls, it's my dime and if I don't want to speak to them I tell them I'm sorry I'm not interested and hang up.

I was one sitting at the Starbucks at Tukcom enjoying and overpriced latte, and some guy comes up to me and asks for a cigarette. I politely said no, and that was it - so in that case, Thailand is just like "your country". Sunee boys are a different animal - they've become conditioned to the fact that farangs tend to give them anything they ask for if they think the farang has the hots for them. We call this becoming "Sunne-ized".

[catawampuscat]

I concur with Soi 10 Tom sentiments and realize that there is a problem in perception.

The author felt his behavior was justified in throwing the money on the floor in view of the boy's friends.
The "ugly farang" aspect of this, is that an alien visiting a foreign country who treats its citizens like scum and feels
it is just fine to post about his behavior without even a thought that he behaved poorly. He should
have been ashamed and apologized to the Thai guy..

The boys are more than just meat to be used and discarded and it is too bad that the author doesn't understand
that he was wrong and should realize that because some people have less money than him , doesn't make him
superior or a better person..

Stay out of Sunee, stay out of Pattaya and play your degrading games elsewhere and see what happens.. :cat:

[Shuee]

we can only give replies that we assume of think are correct, as to what actually happened.
if you were being pestured rudly agian & again, as you tried to enjoy a quite drink, you would naturally get angry, maybe thats why the coin was put on the floor, because the guy was angry. No its not nice but neither is it nice being constantly pestured by strangers asking you for money when you have saved hard to try & have a good time, & waited a while to return to pty having booked the leave from your work, where you slog your heart out everyday perhaps, trying to make ends meet finnacially at your home yourself.
do you like also someone keep stepping in between you with their hand out begging, as you try to have a converastion with someone you havent seen for months..... Now just that kinda action gets me angry & thats where this religion/culture thing goes right out the window - rudeness is rudeness, which if persistant causes agression, its as simple as a, b, c

If the thai guy is the one i am aware of, then he's deserves all he gets, would you like a slap around the head one day just becuase you are the 20th farlang that smiled at him the wrong way as he pestured you for money that day......
This sleeze bag deserve all he gets, yet to make our holidays bearable we have to appease this abusive threatening & annoying guy, well that sucks too

i'm sure if the poster was asked nicely for 20bt he may have gave it, or returned a gesture that was polite, but when your pushy annoying, agressive constantly, you get what your due in return whether you on holiday on the north pole or tim buck too, yes we are all human here, & have human feelings where ever we come from in the world

if that guy wants money he can go get his ass up like the rest of us with a proper job, instead of getting up when he feels like it & taking money from other people, & its not as if bar work is a million miles away from him now is it.
sorry i forgot he may have been thrown out of the bars for aggressive behavour towards farlangs already.

i think some people may want to try walking through sunee sometimes when your path is blocked by slim balls wanting money who you never have even met before , you need to look a little deeper into the situation here & be more empathitic to it, after all we dont just throw money in the floor for no reason at all, yes wrong looking back i bet the poster thinks, but obviously he was made angry at the time for no good reason, just trying to have a nice relaxing holiday.

its thanks to these pushy beggers, that now i never tip in such circumstances, & it breaks my heart sometimes & i feel bad with myslef that i regretted not giving a tip becuase you could see the guy was desperate for food etc. Now if in sunne unless i'm paying seated at a bar i never get my wallet out just walking in & out of the place.

its thanks to these pushy beggers, that now i never tip in such circumstances, & it breaks my heart sometimes & i feel bad with myslef that i regretted not giving a tip becuase you could see the guy was desperate for food etc. Now if in sunne unless i'm paying seated at a bar i never get my wallet out just walking in & out of the place.
If you really feel it is a genuine plea for money for food, you could offer to buy the fellow some food. Walk to a nearby food cart or other inexpensive local venue.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

look you can have a bad experience anywhere.

I've been beaten to a pulp, I've a gun put to my head and told to get out of town, had my flat burgled 3 times, car stolen. paid bent cops to look the other way..and that was all in Notting Hill Gate in London.

Pattaya seems like paradise by comparison.

[Shuee]

pty can be paradise if you;

dont get pestured for 20bt everytime when you visit certain places
you dont get waiter putting their extra tip on your bill
you strip yourself of all jewellery incase you attract unwanted attention
you have a cell phone thats about 10years old, as big as a house brick so thais wont even look twice at it
you dont encounter any scams or drug doping
you dont go swim in the sea & come out with red rashes on your body
you dont get ripped off by taxi drivers who charge you more than they should or pretend their meter is caput
you dont get constant lies from some thai guys who are only after your wallet & see you as a walking atm
the mamasan tells you the truth about your favorite number has just been offed instaed of saying ' he no work to day' or he go home see mama, the latter is used when they know he's been offed for more than a few days hihi
the authorities there stop closed bar for not having the license that they have just made up on the spur of the moment as an excuse to extort more money from the owners, & then close the bar not just for 30 or 60 days, but 90!!!
you dont get mugged when walking down a dark soi, or bumpped over head when cutting through the fishmarket at night opposite wat chai
you dont get someone attempt to dip your wallet at then run off, or your bag snatched by motorsy riders
you dont get yours or your bf motosy stolen when its parked up
you dont get the mamasun & the guy your offing at the bar saying they do a, b, & c, then when the moment comes, they will only do d!!
you dont get your bf saying baffalo dies (again) & mama very sik need go hospital (again), send more money now
your bf tells you your the only one in his life sure, then when your ass is on that plane home, hes on the next farlang who just go into town

etc etc etc
welcome to shits ville hahahahahahah :bounce: :compress:

[dab69]

so much time to type crap
obviously he has no life

[Shuee]

oh my - looks like someone else has had their change dropped on the floor too

[kittyboy]

look you can have a bad experience anywhere.

I've been beaten to a pulp, I've a gun put to my head and told to get out of town, had my flat burgled 3 times, car stolen. paid bent cops to look the other way..and that was all in Notting Hill Gate in London.

Pattaya seems like paradise by comparison.

I have been to pattaya about 6 times over the last 15 years. I have had the usual beggars, pleaders, etc... I generally have a pocketful of baht coins and give them to the beggars and pleaders on the street. If they got aggressive I would smile and say no thank you and walk away. A few years back there was a guy dragging himself up and down jomtien beach. He was paralyzed in the legs and made money begging. I always gave him 20 baht and he always gave me a big bow etc... A few farang would curse at him and laugh etc.. I always felt sorry for the beggar and ashamed that the farang would make fun of him but did not want to get into a hassle with whitless fucks.. (the farangs).

The boy I was with told me later that he very much disliked the farang that mocked the paralyzed beggar. He also inndicated that he liked me because I gave money to the poor.

Ok.. he was a freelance money boy and I paid him well. He also took very good care of me and haggled with the vendors, got me good prices, made all the arrangements when we travelled and sucked my dick, and gave up the booty every night. This may not be everyone's experience but I am pretty sure that I had a much better time and was given a much better time by the boy I was with because I was civil and generous to those around me.

I am sure many of the posters will have negative comments and dismiss my opion.. Fine.. But my opinion is still that I had a much better time and was given a much better time by being kind and generous to those around me. When I say kind I mean saying thank you, please, not getting angry, acknowleding people, etc...


Also as a complet aside ... LunchtimeO'B'ooze.. you have the most disturbing avatars! I enjoys your posts but damn those avatars are creepy sometimes.

I with you Kittyboy. There is little one can do with loose coins at the airport, so I too will regularly tip them into a cup of a beggar. Especially when it is pretty obvious they are in real need.

Many a time I have given 20, 50 or 100 baht to a physically disabled person working the outdoor bars. I too have found the boys regard this will and on more than one occasion, gotten me a free drink.

Being nice is cheap and easy, being mean always catches up eventually.

[dave_tf-old]

Kittyboy, your experience and the results that flowed from it are not unique. Thank goodness.

If you can't be decent on holiday, fake it.

Reading this and other threads about Sunee, only reinforces my intent never to visit the place.

Good for you if that is how you feel. I still think the negative occurrences are by far the exception rather than the rule, so nothing I read here is likely to keep me from spending time in Sunee Plaza. I have been all over the plaza at various times including very late at night or early in the morning and never felt threatened or in danger from anyone. For example, when I got there last year my flight was a little late and by the time I arrived at Yensabai Condo it was 3 am. I didn't want to waste my first night there, so after dropping off my bags I just walked through the plaza which was pretty quiet by then, or so it seemed to me, and went on down to Walking Street which seemed like it would be going until daylight.

[CHAOTOU]

... remember he is a visitor in a foreign country and to think before he actsDoubtless an American

Americans go on "vacations" not holidays, don't use the word whilst and would spell terrorised with a "z" Most definitely, not an American.

[bing]

Over the years I tend to ignore somewhat those who beg. Perhaps I have even become callus, but the last time I visited Pattaya, there was a very thin young man on the walkway going to Rits chairs. He sat with his back against a palm tree with a hand painted sign that simply stated, 'I have Aids', and a little cup in front of him in the sand. I think the first day I walked by, and he did not importune me for baht. So much for me being the tough shell. The next day, he was there again, and as I passed by, I stepped off the walkway and handed him a small baht note. He made a wai sign with hands. Needless to say. he would not starve while I was in town. Guys, sometimes we can get so caught up in not being scammed so much, we can forget that when we offer something to someone in need, the benefits of this action come back to us in various ways. Heck, even the Wiccans say, 'harm no one and do what thou wilt.' Well my Heineken needs refreshing, so toodles for now.

My change from the check bin arrived, a fifty note and 10 Baht coin. I picked up the note, and tipped the coin onto the floor for him to pick up,

Yet another demonstration of a 'superior' farang throwing coins to watch the local 'peasants' grovel for money on the floor.

Would it have been so difficult for you to just give the guy 10Baht and in the process probably have saved yourself for becoming a marked man?

As Raksiam has said, on a prior meeting when asked for money you said "Yes later" which if you had not intention of giving him money was your first mistake. firstly you should never make a promise to a Thai that you do not intend to be taken seriously and certainly not in the area that you are frequenting.

And 3rd: never throw Thai money on the floor on purpose: It's a direct assault to the King!!

[atri1666]

Reading this and other threads about Sunee, only reinforces my intent never to visit the place.

Good for you if that is how you feel. I still think the negative occurrences are by far the exception rather than the rule, so nothing I read here is likely to keep me from spending time in Sunee Plaza. I have been all over the plaza at various times including very late at night or early in the morning and never felt threatened or in danger from anyone. For example, when I got there last year my flight was a little late and by the time I arrived at Yensabai Condo it was 3 am. I didn't want to waste my first night there, so after dropping off my bags I just walked through the plaza which was pretty quiet by then, or so it seemed to me, and went on down to Walking Street which seemed like it would be going until daylight.

I agree with you. You took me the words out of my mouth CurlyEye

Well, first of all the good news. I'm back home now safe and sound. Although there have been some pretty harsh responses to my post, I'd like to think that no one would genuinely liked to have seen me get killed.

Without trying to justify what I did, I should have given some more background to the story. I've been coming to Pattaya for about 3-4 times per year for the last six years, and up until now, have never had a problem, at least not on this scale. I've walked around Sunee on my own at all times of the day and night and have never felt threatened. Before this trip, I would have read a post like mine and assumed, like many of you have, that I must have somehow been at fault. I accept that I could have handled it better, but I'd like to explain some more of the background/build up to what happened.

I've known this boy for most of the time I've been visiting Pattaya. When I say 'known', I mean I simply recognise his face as one of the boys from Sunee. In the early days things were very friendly between us, we would ask how each other was and I would often give him some change or a 20B note when I saw him. About a year ago, his attitude towards me started to change. What used to be "You have 20 Baht for me?" accompanied with a smile, changed to "You give me money" accompanied by a very firm grip on my hand and a cold, menacing stare. I have no idea why this change in his attitude happened, but I got the feeling it was more of an attitude towards ferangs in general, rather than aimed specifically at me. Perhaps, as he got older, he saw himself as the new face of the Sunee Mafia? I've no idea.

I still used to give him money, because like I said, I'm an easy going man, I don't come on holiday to pick fights and/or fall out with the locals, and for the sake of 20 Baht from time to time, it's a small price to pay for an easy, relaxed holiday. Towards the end of my last trip however, he got into the habit of coming up behind me and grabbing my arm before demanding money, regardless of whether I was on my own or with a friend. It was then that I decided things were getting out of hand, and that the more I gave into his demands, the more he saw me as an easy target. I told him "No" outright on the last couple of occasions I saw him before I left for home.

During this particular trip, on the occasions that I saw him, I simply decided that the best policy would be to avoid and ignore him as best I could. The sweet boy I knew from just a few years back had turned into a nasty thug, and there was no way I was going to give into him. When I wrote in my original post that I said "Yes yes, later later" on the times that I simply couldn't ignore him, it was because he again got into the habit grabbing my arm, usually when I was with a Thai boy, and for the sake of causing trouble in front of my otherwise innocent Thai friend, it was the only way I could think of, as a spur of the moment reaction, to simply get rid of him. He deliberatly gave me the impression that an outright "No" simply wouldn't be the right answer. The only other two options were to give him what he demanded, which I had decided never to do, or confront him, which was something I desperately wanted to avoid at all costs.

I understand why people have told me "Later means later", and that I should have honoured my 'promise', but this boy knew full well that when I said 'later', what I actually meant was 'never, now just fuck off'. He knew that it wasn't a promise, it was simply my way of trying to avoid confrontation. It wasn't said nor meant as a promise, and he knew it. But again, by not standing up to him outright, he still thought he was intimidating me, and again, I was simply storing up trouble for the future.

The incident at the bar, when he cornered me, was just the culmination of all of these events. He knew I didn't like him, he knew I had no intention of giving him money, and yet he still felt the need to try and intimidate me, and I'd simply had enough. I'm very aware of the dangers of picking fights with Thai people, but I wanted to call his bluff. Without sounding boastful, arrogant or like one of those embarrassing "Brits on the piss" thugs you occasionally see on holiday, I decided that if a fight was going to be the only way to deal with this problem once and for all, then I was prepared to do it. At that time, I was on my own, so didn't have to worry about upsetting any friends I was with, and so long as it was just me and him, and what with me not being a particularly small bloke by anyone's imagination, I probably would have had the upper hand. I feel that he knew this though, which was why he had a couple of his cronies waiting in the wings.

Tipping money on the floor for someone to pick up is degrading in anyone's culture. Some people have written "The Thai's see the floor as dirty so it's no wonder he was upset". Everyone see's the floor as dirty, regardless of their nationality. And as for 'disrespecting the King', somehow, he didn't seem to me to be one that cared much for that sort of thing. It was simply a reaction I took in the heat of the moment, when I realised that even trying to have a fair fight with just me and him wouldn't solve this problem. I was backed into a corner, both metaphorically and physically.

I would like to point out though, that up until this point, throughout all of the history between us, this was the very first act of aggression I had ever made to him. Up until then, my policy was to avoid any kind of confrontation at all costs.

Saying things like "I've been a regular around Sunee for 20 years and have never had a problem" thereby implying that this situation must be of my own making, is as silly as saying "I've never had a problem in 20 years, therefore I never will." In the wonderful world of hindsight, I'm sure that I possibly could have handled things a bit differently, but the fact is that if this has happened to me, it can happen to anyone.

In all of my trips to Pattaya, this is the one that has opened my eyes to an ugly side of it that I hadn't seen before, and I'm not sure if it's put me off going back again or not. I like Boyztown, and I like Jomtien, but I feel at home in Sunee. Before this trip, I always found Sunee to be a relaxed place. Some people have described it as having a 'village' atmosphere, which is true, and why I like it so much. Do I allow this thug to spoil all of that for me, and never return? Or do I go back and risk coming back in a body bag?

That's something I need to think about carefully before I plan my next trip. But one thing that I would like to say in response to some of the replies to my post. This has absolutely nothing to do with me being a 'superior ferang', this has nothing to do with being culturally insensitive, this has nothing to do with me throwing money on the floor for the poor Thai's to pick up, and nothing to do with me being ignorant and insensitive of the plights of other people worse off than myself.

This is simply about someone, regardless of their nationality, trying to intimidate me through menace and threats of violence, into handing over money.

It's that, and only that, where the problem lies.

[globalwanderer]

Your expanded story gives a new insight. And I am glad you are home safe and sound. However as a regular visitor you should really have known better than enter into a confrontation with a Thai.

This thread is a perfect example of people who self-righteously condemn the behaviour of others.
The post starter's latest outline of what happend makes sense to me and shows a dilemma many of us face from time to time: if you're generous and give the odd yeesip Baht, they want more and make demands that cannot be met sooner or later; if you're tight-fisted, they deem you a well-off farang who's just a scrimpy miser - whatever you do, it's wrong!!!
Frankly, I find maroonedmind's story absolutely credible and I know that this sort of sitution could happen to me, too. On one occasion all I could do to avoid overt confrontation was running. And if there's something accurate about the previous posters' comments, then it's the fact that in case of confrontation with a Thai boy you will always end up losing as the Thais have their friends who back them - if not right away and on the spot, then on the next day...
In short: Maroonedmind's post makes me somewhat pensive. :scratch:

[dave_tf-old]

I'll agree with Jaidee except on the point about self-righteousness. This lastest info from the OP fills in a lot of holes the first one didn't. All we have is his words, our imaginations, colored with our own experiences to go on. I've been in similar situations elsewhere (Prague/Gypsies) that made the first post believable, though even he has admitted he didn't handle things well.

Most of the advice and comment that followed was also believable to me, as I too have seen Farang acting horribly and with his words, my imagination, and that experience could well conclude that it was mostly his fault.

Now we have more words, better explanation. Now imagination and experience can help us to empathize more. That doesn't make advice to resist confrontation any less wise, or opinion that Sunee is not that bad a place any less relevant to pass on to the 'dear reader'.

Thanks for the update. I too am glad you are home safe. I feel for your confusion. You've clearly attracted over the years the attention of a troubled young man. I don't know what to tell you to do...except don't seek confrontation and don't throw money on the ground.

Thanks, Marooned, for the complete explanation--it does help to explain a lot, and as you said, it really was about inappropriate demands for money from a new thug who, unfortunately, came to see you as an easy target when you did try to appease him before. I still would not have dropped/tossed/let fallen the money on the floor as that only enflamed an already poor situation--forget the throwing poor thai money, the dirty floor with a king's picture--anyone who has been around Thailand know that most average barboys, like many other poor Thai, tremendously respect the King, but really do very often carry things to the extreme as you have defaced the King by throwing money on the floor--if they did carry that to extremes you would never see, as is very often seen, dancing go go lads, stuffing the 20/50/100 baht note inside their underwear, where it is next to or touching their genitals--what a disrespect to the King??!!

I would not want anyone to give up visiting Thailand due to some thug--and even though Sunee is not my cup of tea, perhaps you should switch areas for a while or go about only with friends or consider telling the tourist police if you are bothered again.

As to those who said in some recent posts about giving to beggars on the street in pattaya or bkk, it has been well publicized many times in the local newspapers and the Bkk Post over the years that begging is illegal in thailand and for those who are still on the streets, they are usually there as they pay the policeman in that area or they are part of a larger gang who have paid off the police to leave them alone--there have been stories that most of the female beggars you see on the streets holding a poor infant are all phoney--the child is not even theirs, and the Post reported one time that some of the begging gangs actually kidnapped infants to use with members of their gangs as woman with suffering children got much more money given to them--the Post encouraged tourists NOT to give money to the beggars, especially the women with children as they did not benefit from the money given (it had to be given to some gang boss) and it provided incentive for more children to be stoen and used that way.

Last, there is one disabled beggar that goes about pattaya and has for years and from what many lads and even some bar owners have told me is actually quite well off and owns a very large, beautiful home in pattaya and goes out each day to make money begging.

[francois]

Over the years I tend to ignore somewhat those who beg. Perhaps I have even become callus, but the last time I visited Pattaya, there was a very thin young man on the walkway going to Rits chairs. He sat with his back against a palm tree with a hand painted sign that simply stated, 'I have Aids', and a little cup in front of him in the sand. I think the first day I walked by, and he did not importune me for baht. So much for me being the tough shell. The next day, he was there again, and as I passed by, I stepped off the walkway and handed him a small baht note. He made a wai sign with hands. Needless to say. he would not starve while I was in town. Guys, sometimes we can get so caught up in not being scammed so much, we can forget that when we offer something to someone in need, the benefits of this action come back to us in various ways. Heck, even the Wiccans say, 'harm no one and do what thou wilt.' Well my Heineken needs refreshing, so toodles for now.

Yes, I have also seen this same man. I also saw him walking behind some Thai woman along Jomtien beach trying to spit on her! She was well dressed and just walking along the beach road and ran when he came after her.
There seemed to be no cause for his actions which were lamentable.

Is he worthy of charity? Not in my opinion.

maroonedmind.....Just as I feared you are still in total denial as to the total lack of appropriateness of your behaviors. There is a "big picture problem" with your behaviors, and you have attempted to hide behind a story using a bunch of details that you have thrown into the air like so much flack.... And in the end you lay the blame squarely on the boy's shoulders. "This is simply about someone, regardless of their nationality, trying to intimidate me through menace and threats of violence, into handing over money." Your complete refusal to accept responsibility for your stupid behavior will be a huge problem in the future, as you seem determined to learn nothing worthwhile from your experience.

Perhaps you should be a politician...as I see that you seem to have gained some sympathy and even support from others on this board with your "explanations", which in all honesty sound like childish excuses. (It's his fault!!!)

I invite you to reread the following quote from my previous post, think about it, take it to heart and hopefully it will change your future behaviors. I wish you no harm and hope that you will a more thoughtful and kind person in the future. It would be a real shame if you learned little or nothing from your experience and ended up bloodied or dead the next time your ego needs get ahead of your brain. I truely hope that you will be able to pop your own head out of your ass because much of the good advice that you have been given seems to have gone in one ear and out the other.

"As to the threat of a fight and your response to it...and then being so stupid as to tip the ten baht coin on to the floor, I can only say that your head was so far up you ass there is little hope of anyone prying it loose. You chose to express your unhappiness with him by throwing the ten baht on the floor for him to crawl after????? Your behaviors are the kind of actions that cause farang to go flying, get stabbed, and shot."

[piston10]

It seems to me that the change in behaviour that maroonedmind finds puzzling is quite consistent with the boy's having acquired a drug habit. If this were the case there would be no point in looking for rationality or reasonable response to any line he might have taken with his aggressor. I believe his account, just as I believe those who say they have never had any trouble in Sunee. It's a salutary story and leaves room for reflexion. Thank goodness it did not have a nasty outcome, though we can all imagine how it must have soured marronedmind's holiday.

It seems to me that the change in behaviour that maroonedmind finds puzzling is quite consistent with the boy's having acquired a drug habit.

A very good point, and all the more reason to take care concerning how you react to people. Most of the advice given is very good (even if I do not agree with some of the views), but some is downright dangerous and anyone faced with a similar situation should realise this:

maroonedmind: Standing up to bullies is all well and good, but when you're alone in a foreign country, and that bully has an army of friends behind him, I think I would be stupid to even try. ............... Without sounding boastful, arrogant or like one of those embarrassing "Brits on the piss" thugs you occasionally see on holiday, I decided that if a fight was going to be the only way to deal with this problem once and for all, then I was prepared to do it. At that time, I was on my own, so didn't have to worry about upsetting any friends I was with, and so long as it was just me and him, and what with me not being a particularly small bloke by anyone's imagination, I probably would have had the upper hand

You seem to have changed your tune from your first post to your last - irrespective of your size and your ability in a street fight (real or imagined), you were correct the first time: you "would be stupid to even try".

Joe M:No matter ones capabilities, a fight with a Thai is likely to be a losing proposition for a falang. It is likely the Thai will employee his friends or weapons or both and leave you lying on the soi unconscious and bleeding
Lunchtime O' Booze:first never ever even consider fisticuffs with a Thai. You will always lose either legally or physically eventually.

Correct.

FILTHy Love:Unfortunately life is cheap in Thailand and a foreigner's life is even cheaper. The boy and his mates may not have a strong motive to hurt you from our western perspective, but from their's, they'll do it simply because they CAN. What's another farang life. They know they'll get away with it,

Not correct; my police friends assure me that a "hit" on a farang is still considerably more expensive than on an equivalent Thai, if only because of the ensuing publicity. It is not "because they can", but because by doing so they either re-gain lost face or gain more credibility/fear on the street.

globalwanderer:To a Thai a promise is a promise

It is to me too.

John Botting:I also have never had a problem in Sunee or any where else for that matter. You really should back down in any conflict with a Thai .... Thai men are huge cowards, they don't loose face by getting their mates to get involved in their fights. They also don't think twice about killing someone and don't ever think about the consequences of their actions.

As an ex-policeman you are very fortunate never to have had a similar problem anywhere, but the blood flow to your brain appears to have been cut off whilst in hospital. To say that all "Thai men are huge cowards ... dont think twice about killing someone and don't ever think about the consequences of their actions" would be laughable if some people did not take you seriously; instead it is as untrue as it is insulting.

Shuee:So you could consider befriending the guy, smiling & or rubbing his shoulers briefly, ask him how he is today, & then just keep walking, but still try hard not to tip him. YOu have to do this tactfully as he may see this as you trying to demean him.

This is the most stupid and dangerous advice possible unless you are deliberately trying to provoke a fight. By "rubbing his shoulders briefly" or suggesting any sort of physical contact you are also in danger of being seen by any unbiased witnesses (if there are any) to be the one who initiated the inevitable violence.

kittyboy:may not be everyone's experience but I am pretty sure that I had a much better time and was given a much better time by the boy I was with because I was civil and generous to those around me.

I think it would be fair to say that it would be the experience of all those who had tried it.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

"Last, there is one disabled beggar that goes about pattaya and has for years and from what many lads and even some bar owners have told me is actually quite well off and owns a very large, beautiful home in pattaya and goes out each day to make money begging."

this was a common scam in London a few years ago.

I must admit to being a sucker for beggars. I was walking along the beachfront in quite an inebriated state one night (unusual for me) and I trod on an elderly woman's paper begging cup, which I found hilariously funny at the time , as I staggered further ahead chortling away.

5 minutes later I was overcome with terrible remorse and rushed back to reward her with 500 baht. She had found a new paper cup by then but I like think a few brownie points had been added to my karma that night.

[dave_tf-old]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has mentioned Muay Thai. Skill in that art is NOT limited to professionals and showmen. As my old buddy W said once, "Every Thai can fight. If he can't fight, he thinks he can."

FILTHy Love:Unfortunately life is cheap in Thailand and a foreigner's life is even cheaper. The boy and his mates may not have a strong motive to hurt you from our western perspective, but from their's, they'll do it simply because they CAN. What's another farang life. They know they'll get away with it,

Not correct; my police friends assure me that a "hit" on a farang is still considerably more expensive than on an equivalent Thai, if only because of the ensuing publicity. It is not "because they can", but because by doing so they either re-gain lost face or gain more credibility/fear on the street.


And we all know what assurances from the honest, efficient, scrupulous Thai police are worth.

I was talking about how cheap a farang's life in Thailand, not how much a hit on him would cost.

Sure, there might be publicity, if it is expedient and in the police's best interests to release information on the crime. Very often the slant will be that it was the farang's fault and/or the police have done a great job in capturing the perpetrators - PHOTO OP! Many of the crimes are not reported and in cases of suspicious death, a verdict of misadventure is usually recorded.

Agreed that the thugs gain face and become more bold after any hit.


"As to the threat of a fight and your response to it...and then being so stupid as to tip the ten baht coin on to the floor, I can only say that your head was so far up you ass there is little hope of anyone prying it loose. You chose to express your unhappiness with him by throwing the ten baht on the floor for him to crawl after????? Your behaviors are the kind of actions that cause farang to go flying, get stabbed, and shot."

And have you lost all self-respect and common sense that you would continue living in an environment where throwing a 10Bt coin on the floor could get you killed, stabbed, shot or thrown over the balcony? Is your life that worthless and pathetic? You talk about the Thai saving face when you've obviously flushed your own down the toilet.


maroonedmind,

Happy to hear you're safe at home. I do not doubt your story, both the shorter and longer versions. There are some farang who are so desperate in wanting to cling on to their romantic dreams in what is probably their last port of call, that they would say anything to defend the bad seeds of Thai society. Pattaya, Sunnee, Patong, Chiang Mai, Patpong is as good as it gets for this lot. They get a bit of attention from a few prostitutes and they get high and mighty on everyone else ~ attributing refined cultural attributes and sensitivities to street urchins and whores - self-righteousness is the symptom, self-denial is the disease. "Let's put down the farang who thinks and stands up for himself" is the only way these 24-hour whoremongers can live with themselves and their "unique" brand of ATM love.

maroonedmind,
Happy to hear you're safe at home. I do not doubt your story, both the shorter and longer versions. There are some farang who are so desperate in wanting to cling on to their romantic dreams in what is probably their last port of call, that they would say anything to defend the bad seeds of Thai society. Pattaya, Sunnee, Patong, Chiang Mai, Patpong is as good as it gets for this lot. They get a bit of attention from a few prostitutes and they get high and mighty on everyone else ~ attributing refined cultural attributes and sensitivities to street urchins and whores - self-righteousness is the symptom, self-denial is the disease. "Let's put down the farang who thinks and stands up for himself" is the only way these 24-hour whoremongers can live with themselves and their "unique" brand of ATM love.

Very well put! I agree with every single word! :thumbleft: :thumbleft: :thumbleft:

[globalwanderer]

maroonedmind,
Happy to hear you're safe at home. I do not doubt your story, both the shorter and longer versions. There are some farang who are so desperate in wanting to cling on to their romantic dreams in what is probably their last port of call, that they would say anything to defend the bad seeds of Thai society. Pattaya, Sunnee, Patong, Chiang Mai, Patpong is as good as it gets for this lot. They get a bit of attention from a few prostitutes and they get high and mighty on everyone else ~ attributing refined cultural attributes and sensitivities to street urchins and whores - self-righteousness is the symptom, self-denial is the disease. "Let's put down the farang who thinks and stands up for himself" is the only way these 24-hour whoremongers can live with themselves and their "unique" brand of ATM love.

Very well put! I agree with every single word! :thumbleft: :thumbleft: :thumbleft:

I do not doubt the story as it was written and I do not believe anyone is defending the 'bad seeds' of any society. However that does not mean that one should not be aware of Thai culture and be careful when alone in a foreign country. If you are not prepared to be aware of the cultural norms and sensitivities of somewhere you visit, particularly frequently, then do not visit. However, in Thailand, the farang who decides to stand up to himself is putting himself in danger. Even if he wins physically at first he is likely to lose legally later, if not worse. Accept the fact that you are not at home and that upsetting the wrong Thai could result in harm. That is why many suggested that maroonedmind kept a low profile and out of Sunee.

Also accept that any slight on the King is by most Thais seen as a great insult. Remember your act is not only seen by the person you are confronting and feeling great because you make them grovel for your 10bht. I don't know any 24-hour whoremongers (although I suspect there will be a torrent of posters claiming to be so as a result of this statement), but I do know many farang living a happy life here who understand that to survive you need to accept there are good Thais and bad Thais and know that you should avoid conflict.

Guys,

It is a fact of life that areas which have the bottom rungs of society and social scale attract the low lifes, pimps and drug dealers, they run side by side, but not necessarily hand in hand.

You can put this down to very poor education, but that is exactly where the danger then lies and why it is best for the man to have walked away from the problem and not have allowed it to spoil his holiday.

We can all say what is right and wrong and how things should be, unfortunately, trhat is a perfect World and as we all know, Sunnee Plaza isn't.

When you are aware of the corruption, lack of interest from the BIB unless there is financial incentive,you should think about protecting yourself and not giving opportunities for them to take out their own woes on you, after all, they love to blame the Foreigner here, and no doubt he would have produced ten witnesses to say you caused the problem had it escalated.[if he had ever been caught]

When their life revolves around living day to day, a trip to Prison just ensures they have a bed space out of the rain and three meals a day!

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

"It is a fact of life that areas which have the bottom rungs of society and social scale attract the low lifes, pimps and drug dealers, they run side by side, but not necessarily hand in hand. "

and as that other great Irishman Oscar Wilde who was also fond of long lunches put it..feasting with panthers..which is what we all do when we wander into Sunnee and let's face..you love it. But one must keep a their wits about themselves lest they end up like poor Oscar.

Francois, That Thai woman may have said something horrible to the beggar with AIDS before you saw him following her. Many Thai are very judgmental and openly degrade anyone with HIV. I do recall someone on here telling us about his BF who has HIV and lives in the countryside. A neighbor woman would come over every morning and stand in front of his house and shout profanities.

"It is a fact of life that areas which have the bottom rungs of society and social scale attract the low lifes, pimps and drug dealers, they run side by side, but not necessarily hand in hand. "

and as that other great Irishman Oscar Wilde who was also fond of long lunches put it..feasting with panthers..which is what we all do when we wander into Sunnee and let's face..you love it. But one must keep a their wits about themselves lest they end up like poor Oscar.


Lunchtime,

Good point feasting with Panthers, the other one is "sleep with dogs, don't complain if you wake up with fleas"

I see that you seem to have gained some sympathy and even support from others on this board with your "explanations"...

I'm genuinely sorry that this seems to have upset you so much. Perhaps if, instead of using your head solely as some kind of counterweight to your fat ferang arse, you decided to use it to learn some basic skills as to how to conduct yourself in the adult world, you might find that things like sympathy and support from others start to flow towards you as well.

As for the other, more constructive replies to the thread, now that I've been back a few days and had some time to reflect, I'm afraid I'm going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with those that have advised me that I did the wrong thing. I think there's a fine line between bravery and foolishness, and we all have to decide where we each draw that line for ourselves.

I fully understand why people have said this, and I would have said the same thing had I been reading about this happening to someone else. The rest of that night when I sat at the bar opposite was truly the most terrifying night of my life, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, not even Soi10 Tom. The times when they swaggered past me, staring me out were truly frightening, but the times when I couldn't see them, and was left wondering what they were plotting, who else they were gathering together, or what arsenal of weaponry they were collecting up, was even worse.

But the fact remains that I somehow managed to get home unscathed, and with my head held high. I don't know how I would have felt had I come home knowing that I didn't at least try to stand up to him. And it wouldn't have made going back any easier. He would still be there, and the problem would still exist. And who knows? Perhaps next time I would have confronted him and it would have had a much uglier outcome than this one.

If anything, I think this is probably the best outcome that could have come out of a very difficult situation. I've decided to leave Pattaya alone for the foreseeable future. When I first started travelling all those years ago, I started out as an explorer, visiting many countries, and enjoying every experience that came my way. I then found Thailand, and in particular Pattaya, and allowed myself to turn from an explorer into a sex tourist. I'm actually quite exited about going back to exploring again, and feel that I've discovered a passion for something I'd completely forgotten about over the last few years.

Thank you for all the replies to this thread. I haven't told anyone in the real world about what happened to me, so coming here to write things down and get some feedback on the whole issue has helped me tremendously. Although I don't accept that confronting him was the wrong thing to do, I have learned a lot of other, probably more valuable things throughout this whole episode.

[TrongpaiExpat]

I then found Thailand, and in particular Pattaya, and allowed myself to turn from an explorer into a sex tourist. I'm actually quite exited about going back to exploring again, and feel that I've discovered a passion for something I'd completely forgotten about over the last few years.

Nicely put. I am in Nan now and have been exploring the Province and not seeing a lot of farangs. The few I do see are in tour buses. They look out at me as some sort of curiosity. I will do a trip report when I get back to Bangkok.

Pattaya is not Thailand. I have one friend that has been living in Pattay for 7 years and has only left two times for very short trips. He now does not want to even consider going anywhere. We have many posters here that get picked up at the airport and are taken directly to Pattaya for the duration. Well. they are happy, no harm done, it's just not for me.

[dab69]

good for you maroonedmind. you stood up to him and
got some excitement, perhaps some added respect for yourself
in return. nice to have the blood churning once in awhile.

also nice it didn't turn out badly for either of you.

maroonedmind:
I think there's a fine line between bravery and foolishness, and we all have to decide where we each draw that line for ourselves.

Indeed we do; unortunately for some they ony find out whether they hae overstepped the line when (if) they wake up in hospital.

I don't know how I would have felt had I come home knowing that I didn't at least try to stand up to him

Probably better than you would have felt coming home in a wheelchair.

And it wouldn't have made going back any easier. He would still be there, and the problem would still exist.

You didn't make going back any easier: he is still there; the problem does still exist.

If anything, I think this is probably the best outcome that could have come out of a very difficult situation.

It is: you were lucky, were not hurt, and your ego is clearly very much intact.