Learning Thai

[PeterUK]

I've been learning Thai for just over two years now and thought a progress report might be helpful to those of you thinking of taking the plunge. My schedule is not very punishing: five one-hour, one-to-one lessons with my Thai teacher per week (Monday to Friday) and perhaps another couple of hours a week for homework. As a result of that, I can now speak reasonably grammatically and clearly and can convey much of what I want to communicate. I read and write at the level of about a Thai 9-year-old. I can understand what Thais say to me if they speak slowly, but comprehension is still the weak link in my progress. I watch Thai TV in a fog of lost meanings (possibly the best way to watch Thai TV). Someone more gifted at foreign languages than me or prepared to study more intensively (15 to 20 hours a week is easily possible without overdoing it) would no doubt progress much more rapidly.

I have noticed three emotional stages while I've been learning. The first, lasting about three months, was one of extreme aversion, when I felt like giving up almost every day, what with the constant bombardment of new and confusing input. One simply has to hang on in there while this is going on and think long-term, knowing that things can only get better. The second stage of about a year's duration was pretty neutral. The worst of the initial shock had worn off but there was little sense of improvement and it was just a comfortable routine I was performing - on a bad day I might have still thrown up my hands in despair and called it a day. The final stage, which has lasted many months now, has been one of positive enjoyment, of seeing the clear benefits of all the hard work and of drawing satisfaction from the small forward steps made each day. I truly look forward to my lessons now and wouldn't dream of giving up.

What are the benefits? Well, relationships with the young men are more rewarding for a start. I can hold proper conversations with them now and be humorous without having to rely on mime and funny faces (though they still come into it). More interesting matters can be discussed than before, though profound the conversations certainly ain't! Beyond all that, I can deal with practical stuff much better - ordering in restaurants, querying things with officials, getting directions etc. Being able to decipher signs, documents etc (slowly, laboriously) is also useful. Everything combines to make one feel less isolated and helpless, more attuned to what is going on all around. It's a good feeling.

For people who come to Thailand only as tourists it is quite sufficient just to pick up a few words and phrases here and there and rely on goodwill to get them through. There's not time for much else. But for foreigners living here I think it really is a good idea to consider learning the language properly, and by that I mean going to a teacher and learning to read and write it as well as just speak it (trying to learn on one's own invites disaster - poor pronunciation, more likely to give up quickly). There are many excuses for the expat not to learn Thai, but they usually come down to one thing: laziness. As a guest here I feel that the onus is on me to learn Thai, not on Thais to speak my language. One is automatically accorded more respect if one makes the effort - just this morning a songtaew driver, beaming from ear to ear, insisted on shaking my hand as I got out of the front cab of his vehicle. One also respects oneself more. Tuition is not expensive (I pay 3000B a month) and the cost is repaid many times over in terms of more enjoyable living. If you are thinking of doing it, my advice is: go for it, you won't regret it in the long run.

Just for fun in closing, I wonder if anyone already proficient in Thai knows the meaning of the following (my own transliteration system and no tone marks just to make it harder!): 'Kaw meuang dtaa liu dtong liu dtaa dtaam'. Clue: it's a Thai saying with some relevance to my post above.

[thaiworthy-old]

You deserve kudos for doing what many farang only dream of, myself included. And you are right, you need to have a Thai teacher, you can't learn it on your own. I have tried both. I went to a wat here in Houston with materials purchased from a language school I went to in Phuket. Locally, I found a community of Thai people at a place called Wat Buddhavas.

http://www.watbuddhavas.iirt.net/

They only charged me $100 a semester, a rare bargain! Especially when compared to Berlitz, who wanted over $3000! Otherwise, it's best to be living in Thailand to learn Thai, which is difficult when you can only visit for a couple of weeks twice a year.

Another tool is Rosetta Stone, which helps learn the tones, but a private teacher is still the only way to go.

Again, you are to be commended for your diligence. The boys are impressed and will appreciate you more now that you can speak Thai. I think all the rewards are well worth it.

You deserve kudos for doing what many farang only dream of, myself included. And for many of us it's a nightmare kind of dream. Even Aunty's life's work, Nuclear Physics for the under fives, is not going to be something I will ever have proficiency in talking about in Thai to any Thai. Those who understand its concepts will be speaking passable-to-perfect English anyway. Ask most bar boys if you can pay for their English lessons and they will jump at the chance. A basic vocabulary of a couple of hundred words will get you through most day-to-day situations. However you should learn Thai from an educated Thai; the moment you open your mouth every Thai will be able to identify immediately if your "teachers" were the Isaan bar boys with whom you ordinarily interact. But, as I say, a conversation that I would ordinarily carry on with another English speaker is not going to be possible with a semi-educated Thai. If they can hold that sort of conversation then they will have learnt English already

[Hmmm]

I recall a piece on Bangkok Phil's old site where he went around the best known Thai language schools in BKK and assessed their operations, from teaching methods, to staff quality, teaching materials, classrooms, class sizes, costs, etc. Phil is a bigwig in the online expat English teaching community, although in Thailand that doesn't necessarily mean one knows anything about good teaching ! In any case, the verdict was that there was only one or two schools where he would spend his money, and many he wouldn't go near.

So that's the problem as I see it with learning Thai in Thailand. The country's education system has an unenviable bad reputation. Anyone can put up a shingle and call themselves a Thai language teacher, even if their only qualification is that they are Thai. And even though they may seem competent enough, a farang has no way of knowing whether they're being taught well, let alone correctly. You wouldn't want to be taught English by some of the supposed native speakers on this board !

So my approach has been to begin my Thai education in my home country. In big cities it is not too difficult to find Thai language courses taught by Thais with proper teaching qualifications, knowledge of different Thai teaching methods, and similar competency in English. Of course it will cost more than in Thailand. But I believe that you need a strong foundation in the 'rules' of the Thai language, taught in a systematic way. One can then study further in Thailand with a proper basis on which to choose the best teacher for you.

There are different ways of teaching Thai. As a language that does not have a long tradition of being taught to foreigners, those methods are still evolving. One famous school in BKK used the dubious approach that one should spend weeks just listening to Thai before attempting to speak any words at all.

There are also some particularly critical issues in Thai language teaching - for example the choice of a transliteration system (there are several, but only one that I think works well), when should one be introduced to Thai writing, how to teach tones, etc.

I'm still early in my journey to learn Thai. I did two 10-week, once-a-week courses several years ago. I now feel like I understand the rules of the language, although I am far from being able to speak it. But I don't live in Thailand, so there is no urgency. I have a set of books and tapes that I refer to from time to time, which I chose based on how the material is presented (most are from the Benjawan Becker series).

It would be interesting to hear others' experiences.

I have purchased and I am currently using Rosetta Stone. In my humble opinion it's GREAT! The only problem with it is it only has a level one (with Thai) and with other languages they have at least a two levels. Anyway, Rosetta Stone basically teaches you any language as a parent would teach a child ... boy, boy, boy (photo) girl, girl, girl (photo) etc. this gives you the basics then they go to short phrases, like the boy under the table vs on top of the table. Believe it or not you are also taught simple sentences ... it's very enjoyable when I spend my hour or two a day working on this program. My goal is to speak Thai and I understand that Rosetta Stone won't get me there, however, I believe that by the time I am able to move to Thailand and call it my home, I will have a solid enough base in the language to get by to begin with and to build upon in the following years.

I have been using the Thai - Isan - Lao Phrasebook by Asger Mollerup. Not easy. At the end of the day being able to throw out some Isan gets amazing responses. Similar to the time I brought Isan CDs to a bar and asked the DJ to play instead of the normal fare. Unbelievable response from the entire staff. A bottle and setup for the boys and it was a night of frolick and fun... Yeah, I was the only customer on a slow night and nothing better was on offer.

A little Isan does wonders.

BTW, RB at A*** always impresses the BF when he speaks Isan. BF loves to go to A*** for the shells which gives power in bed. He also knows I love RB's service and desserts. Mango season is on the way.

[TrongpaiExpat]

It's not only the Pattaya bar boys that are speaking Issan/Lao, it's also most of the Bangkok taxi drivers and service people. They learn Lao first at home and then when and if they go to school they learn Thai. Some learn better than others.

My BF told me when he went to school in Nong Khai the Thai government teachers would punish them if they spoke Lao but when the teacher left the room they all reverted back to speaking Lao to each other. Both his parents spoke only Issan/Lao.

Some of the Bangkok taxi drivers are just off the bus from Issan. They know some basic Thai and maybe a few English words.

It's frustrating, learn to speak Thai well and those dam Thai people driving around in BMW's will not open their windows to speak to you.

[thaiworthy-old]

I had a substitute teacher for my Thai lesson one day and I was trying to give a compliment about her smile.

I said, "Phom chorp fan kong khun." Which I thought meant I like your teeth. (I was looking for another way of saying "I like your smile." But I didn't know the word for smile.)

Her eyes widened and her mouth opened, gaping in awe.

What I had actually said apparently, was "I like your boyfriend."

Should have been "Phom chorp fun kong khun."

I think. I don't know, maybe I have them mixed up again.

This stuff isn't easy. And sometimes embarrassing.

[Hmmm]

I had a substitute teacher for my Thai lesson one day and I was trying to give a compliment about her smile.

I said, "Phom chorp fan kong khun." Which I thought meant I like your teeth. (I was looking for another way of saying "I like your smile." But I didn't know the word for smile.)

Her eyes widened and her mouth opened, gaping in awe.

What I had actually said apparently, was "I like your boyfriend."

Should have been "Phom chorp fun kong khun."

I think. I don't know, maybe I have them mixed up again.

This stuff isn't easy. And sometimes embarrassing.

Yep, phaen is boyfriend / girlfriend, which is I guess is what your word sounded like. Fan is tooth. Yim is smile. But I suspect you know all that.

That's the problem with loose transliteration systems. Depending on your accent, you and I could pronounce words spelt that way completely differently. Whereas with a stricter phonetic transliteration system with special characters (like that used by most good teachers, eg Becker) there's less scope to get things wrong, until you reach the point at which you're ready for Thai characters (as early as possible according to most good teachers, but not too early).

It's also why you can't learn Thai from a book. You have to hear the words and tones.

BTW, "yim suay" (beautiful smile) is bound to endear you to any gay Thai boy ... as long as you pronounce it right. :-)

in the end you cant beat learning to read thai script.

[anakot]

Some resources I have used and could be useful

1. CD - Learning Thai Script - Produced by the Multimedia Interactive Learning Lab at Australian National Uni.
I have found this to be very good when learning all the consonants and vowels. There are some great interactive tests and a focus on commonly confused characters to help you to distinguish them like some of the 'tor' consonants ถ ธ and ฐ

2. CD - Talk Now - Study Thai Language Produced by Eurotalk
A useful extra CD.

3. CD - Pim พิมพ์ 2001 - This is a typing program so you can learn to type in Thai. A bit of fun for the adventurous.

4. Book Thai for Intermediate Learners by Benjawan Poomsan Becker

5. Book Thai for Advanced Readers by B Becker as above
I have found both these books really great. The Advanced Reader comes with a beautiful clear largish Thai font, a written translation and CD's so you can listen to the pieces when you are out and about with your MP3

There are tons of other things I have used over the years but these are some resources you could use to familiarise yourself. The CD's are available at Pantip and the books in any Bookazine.

If you get carried away and want to type you can get colour matching stickers for your keyboard keys for each combined English/Thai character and it is easy to switch between Thai and English.

Best of luck in this worthy project.

Anakot

[anakot]

Forgot to mention the talking dic, and i don't mean the OETS. I got a Thai Talking Dic in 2002 and it has been ab fab when it comes to being compact and comprehensive. I am sure the models are much better now with colourful screens so I would recommend you get one if you want to communicate better. Dictionaries are usually more comprehensive than the books and you can give it to BS to input in paasaa Thai for you to read output in paasaa angrit. Can't remember what I paid for this may be about 10000 baht but I am sure they would be cheaper now.

[PeterUK]

To the books mentioned I would add David Smyth's 'Thai: An Essential Grammar', which is well-organised and gives plenty of examples to illustrate the grammatical points.

My Thai saying seems to have foxed everyone. It translates as 'In a town where people wink, you must also wink'. More amusing than our rather leaden 'When in Rome...', don't you think?

[sglad]

Putting "learning Thai" into the search function threw up quite a few threads on the subject but this one had the most interesting and eloquent opening post by someone who seemed very dedicated at learning the language. Is he still around I wonder? It would be nice to engage with him and others who have made similar attempts at learning Thai.

[christianpfc]

I did and posted my experiences here:
http://gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2998
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/472455-six-months-of-study-of-thai-language-%E2%80%93-a-success-story/

[fountainhall]

Well now! Isn't this interesting? Not the thread, although that does indeed have an interest for some. No, I mean the dredging up of threads that have been dormant for many years. And in this case, it really is MANY years! There was only one other poster in the history of this Board and the gaythailand board who ever trolled through old posts to dredge them up and reactivate them with some relatively meaningless short post. That poster's name was Beachlover! Old habits etc. . . !

Are there not enough Thais in your circle of friends, Mr. Singapore student (mostly Thai, as you told us earlier), to help with the language?

[cdnmatt]

I can recommend the Benjamin Poosam Becker series as well, including the beginner book. Those books are how I began learning at least, and they did a good job.I've noticed, my Thai has regressed a fair bit in the past while. For one, reading and writing is now out the window, whereas I was getting pretty decent before. All I get from screen reader is "Thai eletter b25 Thai letter b18 Thai letter b41", etc. I'm assuming brail annotation, and I don't know the Thai alphabet in brail, and have no desire to learn. Then writing is out as I don't have the Thai keyboard layout memorized, and searching for a certain key isn't happening.

Then for the last good while I've pretty much just gung out at home with the dogs. Majority of times I speak Thai are at the stores, mall, etc.... so generally always the same words and phrases are used. Oh well, not that big of a deal.

[Marsilius]

The country's [Thailand's] education system has an unenviable bad reputation. Anyone can put up a shingle and call themselves a Thai language teacher, even if their only qualification is that they are Thai. And even though they may seem competent enough, a farang has no way of knowing whether they're being taught well, let alone correctly. You wouldn't want to be taught English by some of the supposed native speakers on this board !

You are absolutely correct - but, of course, your point cuts both ways.

Someone I have met several times teaches English at a Thai university. He freely admits that his paper qualifications - a UK university "degree" and a postgraduate TEFL certificate - are complete forgeries produced by a Thai printer (he says that that is easily and commonly done). In reality he has no academic qualifications whatsoever. Moreover, although he is a native English speaker his pronunciation, grasp of grammar and ability to communicate his ideas - such as they are - are all notably defective. Nonetheless, he has been in post undetected for something like a decade.

This guy has observed to me that many of his students are actually not as concerned to learn English as they are to get the final piece of paper certifying that they have completed his classes. He has told me that amassing a collection of such magic documents is the be-all and end-all of much of Thai education.

As as you point out, however, there are probably many, many Thai "teachers of Thai language" carrying out exactly the same sort of scam on farang with similarly acquired, if not outright falsified, "qualifications", minimal ability other than to act the part convincingly and no aptitude for teaching at all.

[werner]

Very interesting discussion! Thanks!

If I decide to work/retire in Thailand, I will certainly work hard on [unintentional pun??] learning Thai...

At almost 70, learning a new language will not be easy, even though I am quite fluent in five or so languages. Will it ever be possible to master Thai at an old age??

Please provide more information: There are a lot of suggestions here about textbooks and other materials. What schools would you suggest for arranging good teachers for private lessons?

Of course, learning a language is a life-time project. I continue to learn much about my native language, French. For example, French slang, especially that of young people, is very different say in Canada, Senegal, and Paris, than in my native Switzerland.

[a447]

Check out Kruu Wee on YouTube.

If you were straight you'd be jacking off as you watch her. Language porn at its best.

[scottish-guy]

Hell no - the last time I searched for "WEE" I got some very kinky videos

:lol:

[sglad]

Very interesting discussion! Thanks!

If I decide to work/retire in Thailand, I will certainly work hard on [unintentional pun??] learning Thai...

At almost 70, learning a new language will not be easy, even though I am quite fluent in five or so languages. Will it ever be possible to master Thai at an old age??

Please provide more information: There are a lot of suggestions here about textbooks and other materials. What schools would you suggest for arranging good teachers for private lessons?

Of course, learning a language is a life-time project. I continue to learn much about my native language, French. For example, French slang, especially that of young people, is very different say in Canada, Senegal, and Paris, than in my native Switzerland.

Hi Werner

Where would you like to take your private lessons? I can recommend a couple of schools in Bangkok. I'm still in the process of getting to know the Thai as a foreign language teaching scene in Chiang Mai.

I remember reading somewhere that it is easier to learn a foreign language if you've successfully studied other foreign languages previously so you're off to a good start. The trick is to find a teacher that is best suited to your needs and to set realistic goals. You have the right attitude and I think you'll be able to pull this off. :)

I agree that this is an interesting thread and thank PeterUK for starting it.

[sglad]

Hell no - the last time I searched for "WEE" I got some very kinky videos

:lol:

And did you get wet after? :D

[werner]

Hi Werner

Where would you like to take your private lessons? I can recommend a couple of schools in Bangkok. I'm still in the process of getting to know the Thai as a foreign language teaching scene in Chiang Mai.

I remember reading somewhere that it is easier to learn a foreign language if you've successfully studied other foreign languages previously so you're off to a good start. The trick is to find a teacher that is best suited to your needs and to set realistic goals. You have the right attitude and I think you'll be able to pull this off. :)

I agree that this is an interesting thread and thank PeterUK for starting it.

Sglad, Thanks.

If I work or retire in Thailand, I would want to learn Thai in Bangkok. Please do recommend some schools that offer private tutorials.

I was just lucky in learning languages. (1) I am from Switzerland, where people are supposed to speak a couple languages, although some Swiss people, unfortunately, have too much pride in their own language. (2) When I was a child, several languages were spoken at home, and I lived in Japan for about seven years. (3) I went to the university in the U.S. and thus mastered English.

I am probably too old to learn a new language easily, although my brain is programmed to think and speak in several languages.

[arsenal]

100 years from now no one will bother with all these silly local languages such as Thai, Chinese, French and American. Everyone will speak English.

[werner]

100 years from now, the United States will no longer be the dominant power, and students around the world will be learning Chinese.

[arsenal]

Werner: I agree with your first part (not even the dominant power now in my opinion) but not your second. Chinese is a rather unwieldy and poorly designed language.

[werner]

Well, I wish my country Switzerland would drop the fiction that Romansch/Rumantsch [or however you want to spell it] is an "official" language of the country, and just let this language die out.

[fountainhall]

100 years from now, the United States will no longer be the dominant power, and students around the world will be learning Chinese.
Not just learning - they'll be speaking it as a second language if not a first.

A sign of the times? Trump's 4-year old granddaughter has been learning Mandarin Chinese since she started talking.

[sglad]

Sglad, Thanks.

If I work or retire in Thailand, I would want to learn Thai in Bangkok. Please do recommend some schools that offer private tutorials...

I am probably too old to learn a new language easily, although my brain is programmed to think and speak in several languages.

We're all too old to learn a new language easily - once we hit puberty our capacity for acquiring a second language declines. And whether we're successful at learning a new language depends on our personal motivation, aptitude, teachers, level of commitment, support of friends and the target language itself. You have an advantage in that your "brain is programmed to think and speak in several languages" which is a powerful tool so use that to motivate you. My Thai teachers say that the people who drop out are the ones who tend not to have clear goals as to why they want to learn the language and because they face no repercussions if they do drop out. My studies are sponsored by an organisation where my Thai language skills will be put to good use after I graduate. The two Japanese girls in my class hope to become Thai language teachers in Japan so they take their Thai studies very seriously. And you don't even have to like and respect the culture to excel in the language as in the case of missionaries who answer to a higher calling. I've spoken to a few and they claim to have become fluent in six months of study, starting from scratch. Six hours a day, five days a week and they are constantly tested by their organisation so as to make them ready for field work within six months. Mad. But don't stress and please don't be intimidated - I was only giving examples of how committed some people can be. I think 2 hours twice a week or 1.5 hours 3 times a week is enough for someone who is holding down a full-time job, provided you are consistent with your studies (and that includes self-study).

You'll find that all schools offer one-to-one lessons but there are two which I've heard good things about from friends who have attended, including seniors working in the Foreign Service. One is Baan Aksorn in Sukhumvit 33. This school is popular with East and Southeast Asians: Japanese executives, Korean housewives, expats from Singapore. One of the more expensive schools around but worth the money. They

[sglad]

Oops, I fell asleep while writing this. Will continue tonight.

[destiny]

I would recommend to NOT take private classes, but start with group classes until you reach a certain level. This is less challenging and a LOT more fun as you can listen to and learn from others in your group and the pace is more relaxed.
After you mastered the beginner level, I would switch to private class and then - VERY IMPORTANT - include learning how to READ Thai. It is not as difficult as people think, but being able to READ, you will be surprised to realize that you have pronounced at least 50% of the words incorrectly. There are indeed many schools in BKK and to choose the most suitable for you depends on what learning type you are. I until today prefer it the old fashioned way, which means including grammar from the beginning (because I want to understand the pattern of a language), I have a knowledge of five languages besides my native tongue (which is not English) and mastered them all that way, Indonesian and Spanish I virtually learned all by myself (thank you, internet!) after an initial course of just 30 hrs.
If you tell me what sort of approach you prefer, I might be able to recommend some schools according to your needs. Better send me a PM as I am not a regular on this board (I had sent you a msg some time ago regarding another topic)

[lukylok]

After you mastered the beginner level, I would switch to private class and then - VERY IMPORTANT - include learning how to READ Thai. It is not as difficult as people think, but being able to READ, you will be surprised to realize that you have pronounced at least 50% of the words incorrectly.

I fully agree. It is near impossible to have the right pronounciation if you cannot read, and writing comes at the same time.
I tried as everyone to learn without writing but found myself blocked at a certain stage. And I had to review the way I pronounced a lot of words.

[Up2U]

A friend has the Thai-English dictionary for the smartphone and loves it.

http://www.paiboonpublishing.com/products.html