Thaksin

Call me stupid (STUPID!!!), l know Thaksin was ousted for corruption, and millions hate him. But why then do the PPP win at the last election, wanting this man back. Well win is the wrong word, they got most seats, but not an outright win.
What part of the picture am l missing.
I ask some Thais they hate him, and others Love him still. It seems by voice only, l have not checked the facts, that he is more popular
in Northern Thailand.
If this was the USA or UK, it would be prison, and no chance of any political return.
Are there more Muslims who hate him?
I know l'm dumb, but can someone explain :cheers:

He let his wife return to face the charges by herself. I am sure he is letting her test the waters and to rally his supporters for his return but still he isn't as a husband should be.

Easy to "check the facts"--read the Bkk Post and/or the Nation English-language newspapers (yes, they have online versions) and read websites that discuss this--in a very brief nutshell, Thaksin unpopular with certain segments of the military and police, his corruption got a bit out of control and became a bit too obvious and blatent, he also, it appears, irritated the King, but in the city of Bkk, it is reported that the Thai middle class, did not support him, but he/his friends, etc, were popular in the rural areas, nowhere more so, then in the Issan region for his populist policies--water buffalo program, 30 baht medical plan, etc, and of course, there was a strategic plan of vote/influence buying that went on.

Thailand may well have problems ahead as I have read that the Supreme Court will now decide if the PPP party is just a proxy of Thailand and will be disqualified in some sense, and in the meantime, some of their "victors" are being individually disqualified for one reason or another--some believe that the military/King will not allow this party to take any control. All hope that the King will stay healthy as if he dies, the stability of the nation could be in trouble.

That certainly sheds some light on the situation, thank you for your reply.

he/his friends, etc, were popular in the rural areas, nowhere more so, then in the Issan region for his populist policies--water buffalo program, 30 baht medical plan, etc, and of course, there was a strategic plan of vote/influence buying that went on.


Sammy,

I think his genuine popularity in some areas (the rural poor - the majority of the Thai population) goes deeper than that. He was very much the first politician to implement popular policies which genuinely did help the rural poor, who had previously been ignored apart from at election time when the price of a vote had gone up from a bucket 20 years ago to 200 baht under Chavalit. TRT probably spent no more on vote buying than anyone else, possibly less, although there was clearly a lot of "sponsorship" for the demonstrators based at Sanam Luang. It is more than likely that his personal popularity, coupled with the possibility that the uneducated majority could actually choose who would run the country, was seen as a "clear and present danger" in certain quarters.

His motives for these policies are very much open to doubt - I always look on him as being in the same league as a fund-raiser who raises money for charity while making considerably more money for himself: it may not be morally correct, but at the end of the day is the charity (in this case the rural poor) better off with him or without him?

I think you are also right as concerns possible problems ahead; the country is openly polarised as never before and there appears to be no easy solution. An interesting article in Tuesday's Bangkok Post gave three possible options for the future, depending on what happens to the government: (1) investor confidence, stability and economic prosperity (2) a lack of confidence and overseas investment and increased inflation (3) a crisis in 2010 /2011 and an economic meltdown affecting not the wealthy classes (as 10 years ago), but the poor who would face widespread unemployment even in the rural areas.

Only time will tell ........

gone fishing, i agree, the vote buying, etc, was probably very similar to what had been going on forever, from what I have read, however, is that Thaksin and his cronies were maybe a bit more clever and strategic on how it was done--as to his populist polices, I would be the first to agree that some did benefit from his plans in the rural northeast--but if you read much about some of the programs, such as the "a water buffalo for every farmer" (or whatever the official name was), there was a great outcry about the corruption in the program so that all that could have been helped by the program did not get helped--some of that very corruption happened at the local level where provincial officials and village headsman kept/stole/etc funds distributed to help local farmers, and the 30 baht medical scheme, you may have read, cost the national govt a small fortune to subsidize --but, as you said, we will see what happens--but to this day, Thaksin remains popular in the region as we have stated as they thought he finally did something for them. He was clever enough that to know that he may not be successful in pulling the wool over the eyes of the more edcuated in Bkk, for instance, and made every effort to solidify his support in the rural areas. Of course, has been written about in all the newspapers in the past, he made the great blunder of appearing too arrogant or whatever to the King, much of this made clear by speeches, comments made by Privy Council members, who often make the King's feelings known in various ways.

I think Thailand is at a great crossroads--it will be interesting to see what the upper courts rule about the legitimacy of the PPP party--obviously, their ruling will not come without behind the scenes influence by who--the King, the Privy Council, the military, the police, or all of these?

Thank you for those very educated responses, it has certainly cleared the water somewhat.

PP

would it not also be fair to say that in many ways this is a battle of the establishment versus the new?

Politically Thaksin was bringing a totally new approach to politics, and the "old guard" clearly saw this as a threat. Prior to Thaksin, no politician in Thailand had such a personal following (in this case from the poor - who numerically make up the highest proportion of the population). The TRT party brought to Thailand an almost glitzy style of party politics and the party leader became a celebrity in his own right (and his wife for that matter). Any observer has to admire the skill with which the old TRT party expanded so rapidly throughout the Kingdom, and the slick PR machine that came with it. If you are at the top of the old guard this must feel very threatening indeed. I am not a fan of Thaksin but I do admire his political acumen and organisational skills (it is very much like Blair in Britain - not my favourite guy but I take my hat off to his incredible political/communication skills, and like Thaksin he had the ability to divide people in a clear love/hate kind of way ).

The bottom line is Thaksin seemed to be able to reach out and communicate with the vast majority of the Thai population (the poor and less well off) - for the old guard around the Monarch, Privy Council and Military, I am sure this was very unnerving and difficult to comprehend.

Observing the current situayion with the PPP, it seems to be a case of "watch this space" - the battle is clearly not over.

He let his wife return to face the charges by herself. I am sure he is letting her test the waters and to rally his supporters for his return but still he isn't as a husband should be.Coward? What else are women for? :idea:

I'm side stepping that answer thank you :drunken:

YardenUK, I agree with most of what you say, and as I said in an earlier post, Thaksin and his cronies were very clever in solidifying their support in the rural areas and did have a clever machine. I am not so sure, however, about how far his "political acumen" went. I think he got a "little too big for his britches", and while he had garned much support among the rural areas, even with some corrupt policies not always delivering what had been promised, he forget the one man who had even more support among the rural, and that is the King. I am sure, as you said, the old establishment was threatened or jealous, but anyone with true political acumen in Thailand knows you do not do anything, in front or behind the scenes, that appears to irritate/offend the King--from what I read, Thaksin had received enough "warnings", but continued anyway in practices that "bothered" the King and his closest advisers, etc. Additionally, as time went along and while perhaps no more corrupt than others before him, his more blatent acts also bothered the middle class in Bangkok. You may remember reading that very quickly after the coup, the King gave his public blessing to the actions. Perhaps with the next King--the current son, who does not have anywhere near the public support and love from the people as this King, Thaksin could have gotten away with what he did.

A good outline above of the problem with Thaksin.

Many of us were early supporters of Thaksin only later to realize that he had a plan for himself and his family, not for the country.

There are two issues which have not been mentioned above that poisoned the view of Thaksin. First, he sent Thai troops to Iraq at the American's request. This did NOT sit well with religious and military community and other parts of Thai society. The second problem was that Thaksin developed a "unhealthy" connection with a certain member of the Royal family. This greatly alarmed the educated and business classes in the country. As this "friendship" was developing another member of the Royal family who we all love countered step by step and started reaching out to other segments of society.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

and anything but subtle. Handing out 1500 baht to electors in a country of impoverished people will buy their undying support.

It's human nature..forgot everything else. The man is a corrupt and crooked would be dictator. The fact that the country hosts many like him who may not have been as clever doesn't diminish his guilt.

[thaiworthy-old]

Why are you always right, Doris? When I get to Thailand I am definitely going to buy you a drink(s). Are those drink invites still always accepted?

[Hmmm]

There are two issues which have not been mentioned above that poisoned the view of Thaksin. First, he sent Thai troops to Iraq at the American's request. This did NOT sit well with religious and military community and other parts of Thai society. The second problem was that Thaksin developed a "unhealthy" connection with a certain member of the Royal family. This greatly alarmed the educated and business classes in the country. As this "friendship" was developing another member of the Royal family who we all love countered step by step and started reaching out to other segments of society.

And the third was selling Shin Corp to the Singapore gov's Temasek without paying tax on the sale. That offended the middle and upper classes on several levels. Selling off Thailand's comms infrastructure to the Singaporese offended Thai nationalists (is there any other kind of Thai ?). The failure to pay tax offended them more on the level of "I wish I could get away with that".


he forget the one man who had even more support among the rural, and that is the King.

While that is seemingly true, it is not consistent with the recent election result. A number of possibilities spring to mind to explain the apparent inconsistency in the majority rural vote for PPP:
1. HMK's rural subjects failed to understand his sometimes obtuse criticism of, but clear disdain for, Thaksin.
2. They don't make the same connections as most people do between HMK and politics. So they don't see any inconsistency in absolute reverence for HMK and voting for Thaksin's proxy.
3. They distrust the the anti-Thaksin crowd more than the PPP / Thaksin.
4. Thaksin's cronies pay more for a vote than HMK's or the Democrat's.
5. They actually value what Thaksin did for them (30 baht scheme, village fund, OTP etc).

Hmmm--I think you are correct about most of your points--Thai citizens of the rural north, or for that matter anywhere, I believe. would never opnely offend the King or "disobey" him, but then money and promises in the hand, can help and feed the family today, and the King would never opnely oppose Thaksin or the PPP party or rebuke those who supported those. Particularly, now, as you know, the King has had his own health problems to deal with and then the death in the family.

Hmmm,
Brilliant Post Thank you!!

>>And the third was selling Shin Corp to the Singapore gov's Temasek without paying tax on the sale. That offended the middle and upper classes on several levels. Selling off Thailand's comms infrastructure to the Singaporese offended Thai nationalists (is there any other kind of Thai ?).<<

Yes, true, plus the Bangkok rumour that this Singapore company is in fact owned by an American company!

Yes, true, plus the Bangkok rumour that this Singapore company is in fact owned by an American company!There's no end to the lunacy of conspiracy theories!

In That Book it is suggested that Thaksin's support base largely overlaps that of the rural insurgency against the central government (that took the label but not really the practices of "Communist") of the Sixties etc.