where pattaya headed

[ikarus]

Here are several random observations regarding today's Pattaya. It was the lowest high season ever in my experience.
It was the most expensive holidays I ever had in Pattaya. The reasons are complex (one: I wanted to stay in a decent hassle-free hotel which is at least 100 US per night nowdays). The other obvious reason is baht appreciation on top of very visible inflation. I feel very sorry for expats living on fixed US dollar-denominated income (and progressively UK pound income which goes down even faster than I predicted on this message board). Unfortunately things are going to be much worse before getting any better in this respect. The other probable reason the fear of political instability and terrorist attacks. We are very fortunate that we did not have (at least so far) any of that outside deep South. Despite stunning and completely unfair (from my point of view) results of vote certification, I keep reminding myself that this is up to the Thais to sort out their internal affairs. From farangs perspective what is important is that Thailand remain stable and free of muslim terrorist attacks. Another less significant observation is that there are more Russians than ever in Pattaya. I predict, however, that the number of Russian tourists picked this year as US most probably entering the recession and the price of oil (and natural gas) is going to plunge taking back Russian fortune which is solely based on this commodity.
IMHO Pattaya is moving towards catering to more affluent visitors. While it was always the official goal, I think the move is unavoidable due to the price reality. It manifests itself in growing number of hassle-free hotels (within 100 US per night),
growing number of recent ethnic restaurants (good quality but not chip) and even in terms of enertainment venues. Numerous complains about go go bars in Boys town are fair to some extent but I have to add that Sunee plaza is not better and progressively caters more and more to never ending influx of pedophiles. The future IMHO is with venues like Body langauge and X-ray which are extremely popular with locals (but more expensive if one seeks the same type of entertainment as go go bars offer) and much more fun. Those who are interested in venturing into business in Pattaya should be ready for serious investment to achieve any degree of success in this new envornment.
All in all Pattaya offers more than ever before but be prepared for more expensive holiday if you are looking for good and safe fun.

[lonelywombat]

I have never heard of Body language. Would you provide some details please.

[naklua]

IMHO Pattaya is moving towards catering to more affluent visitors. While it was always the official goal, I think the move is unavoidable due to the price reality. It manifests itself in growing number of hassle-free hotels (within 100 US per night),
growing number of recent ethnic restaurants (good quality but not chip) and even in terms of enertainment venues.

Yes, that is the official goal, but I have not been able to confirm any success in this regard during the recent past. It would not make too much sense in my opinion, as tourists with more money and who are not intestered in the naughty nightlife would be ill-advised to go to Pattaya for some sort of "quality-vacation" as:
* the beach is rather ugly (full of deck chairs, flying vendors all over, the street right in your back, etc.) although it had to be very, very beautiful some time back in the distant past,
* traffic on the main roads becomes more and more BKK-style,
* crime is said to be growing by the year,
* more and more gogo bars are operating (especially lady gogo bars),
* more and more shopping complexes encroach one the few vacant spots and make the city of Pattaya even more ugly than it was before (regarding architecture),
etc.

People with money who are into SE Asia and want to enjoy beautiful beaches and hate mass tourism maybe would rather like to go to Vietnam?


Numerous complains about go go bars in Boys town are fair to some extent but I have to add that Sunee plaza is not better and progressively caters more and more to never ending influx of pedophiles.

I am not an expert in the pedo field, but I have got the impression that the overt part of this trade has been on a decline in the recent past. I think the closure of one in this context notorious bar (now a hotel) helped in this regard. Nevertheless I am not so bold to argue that there is nothing going on any more with under-age guys (as farangs are always said to be punters I refer to guys below the age of 18 years; age of consent in LOS is 15 years; thus it is a little bit quirky to call people paying sb. in the age-range of 15 to 18 for sex a pedo, but if there is no money involved it is non-pedo...; also this terminology insinuates that all people under the age of 18 are kids and are instantly becoming adults on their 18 birthday; there is no room for something like adolescents in this framework. I got off-topic; the only point I want to make here is: under-age and pedo is not always the same), but IMHO it is not that visible.


The future IMHO is with venues like Body langauge and X-ray which are extremely popular with locals (but more expensive if one seeks the same type of entertainment as go go bars offer) and much more fun.

I agree to this one to some extent. Nevertheless I do not think it is a question of gogo bars or Thai gay discos like the above mentioned, but that we will see both types of venues co-existing in the future.
I very much enjoyed Maya (Walking Street; closed already), X-Ray and Body Language (they had one or two stunning coyote dancers) but I also went to the gogo bars. Going to the Thai discos was in addition to going to the boy bars. More generally speaking I think that there is only very limited competition between gogo bars and these discos and therefore not one type of venue squeezing out the other, as they work more or less in different time frames, i.e. the bars have to close at 1 - 2 a.m., and the discos get busy at that time. In other words: The discos are reserved for the later part of the night out, after having visited the bars.

[naklua]

I have never heard of Body language. Would you provide some details please.

This venue is not far away from Happy Boys but outside Sunee Plaza. I think the best would be to go with a motorbike taxi from Sunee Plaza, as the taxi drivers working there should know the location.

[fedssocr]

not sure why you think the price of oil will "plunge". Demand continues to rise and refining capacity seems to be fairly stagnant. I don't think the price of oil will be going down much in the short term future. The world-wide recession that is on the way may cause some slackening of demand but even if that happens I can't imagine that will push the price down more than a little.

... It manifests itself in growing number of recent ethnic restaurants (good quality but not chip) ...

I can't think of a restaurant in Pattaya where you can't get good quality chips





Gary is Fat & Balding

[ikarus]

IMHO Pattaya is moving towards catering to more affluent visitors. While it was always the official goal, I think the move is unavoidable due to the price reality. It manifests itself in growing number of hassle-free hotels (within 100 US per night),
growing number of recent ethnic restaurants (good quality but not chip) and even in terms of enertainment venues.

Yes, that is the official goal, but I have not been able to confirm any success in this regard during the recent past.
I aggree with that. However, due to baht appreciation and inflation they have no choice as to try to cater to more affluent tourists. There are clear signs of that as I mentioned in my post.
I also would like to respond to the price of oil comment. If US go into recession, the price of oil will go down quite substantially. That is all they I have said.

From farangs perspective what is important is that Thailand remain stable and free of muslim terrorist attacks. ........

Another less significant observation is that there are more Russians than ever in Pattaya. I predict, however, that the number of Russian tourists picked this year as US most probably entering the recession and the price of oil (and natural gas) is going to plunge taking back Russian fortune which is solely based on this commodity..........

IMHO Pattaya is moving towards catering to more affluent visitors.

Ikarus, I beg to differ.

Although I hope that Thailand will become free of any terrorist attacks (Muslim, or otherwise), there is no sign of this happening.

As a resident farang, I (like most farangs and Thais) am not directly affected by who happens to be running the country, so some political and economic instability would actually be quite acceptable (particularly to the exchange rate)!

I fail to see any connection between the vast majority of Russian and East European tourists, who are mainly families on budget package holidays, and the price of oil and gas. Most are spending any surplus money buying clothes in Tesco-Lotus and eating food from the supermarkets rather than in "good quality ethnic restaurants". What I can see, however, is their sheer numbers driving other holidaymakers elsewhere.

I cannot agree that Pattaya has "no choice as to cater to more affluent tourists". This has long been the City administration's stated aim, but given the total lack of anything which would attract affluent tourists here over, for example, the Maldives, the Caribbean, Mauritius, the Seychelles, and a myriad of other destinations (not including Vietnam!) it appears to be totally unrealistic.

The beaches have never been stunning, they are now narrower, more polluted and less attractive than ever, the traffic is a major problem (regardless of whether you are staying in a "hassle free" hotel or not, and armed and violent crime against farangs and Thais alike is spiraling.

The housing market is stagnant, at best, and only a Pattaya real-estate agent / developer could seriously write that prices and values are continuing to rise while admitting that no-one is buying! Any commodity is only worth what it can be sold for, nothing more. If Ocean 1 fails to go ahead as planned, as seems more than likely, this could spark a worse collapse in the condominium market.

Pattaya is now openly under the control of Kamnan Pho (Somchai Khunpluem) and his family, the best known of Thailand's "dark influences" and this, together with the still possible opening of a casino at Ambassador City, could have a dramatic affect on Pattaya's future.

The Pattaya area, as I have said elsewhere, has a lot going for it as somewhere to live. What it can never be is a prime destination for "affluent tourists".

Deleted

Deleted - sorry, delete function has "disappeared"!

[Daniel-old]

I enjoyed reading your post ikarus. I was in Pattaya October/November 2007 and return next month. Admittedly, I missed peak season, but I came away with a very different opinion to you.

I felt there were plenty of 'gay' customers in town. They were spread more thinly than in previous years, due the growing number of venues, but I don't think customer numbers are in decline.

I stayed in the Mosaik Apartments in Soi Day Night. The apartments are well-maintained and there's a lift to all floors. I had a two-room apartment with daily cleaning and linen change. This came to less than 1000 Baht per night.

It is not fair of me to compare Pattaya prices with those in the UK. However, they compare favourably to those in Bangkok. I paid 160 Baht for my G&T in Throb and Boyz Boyz Boyz. How many show bars in Bangkok are charging 160 Baht a drink with no entrance fee?

Many of the bars had introduced money saving offers. Armed with a membership card, my G&T cost less than 100 Baht in Panorama and in Oscars in Boyztown. Crystal Boyz charged 100 Baht early evening for their drinks. La Cage was offering two G&Ts for the price of one from 6.30 until 9.00 pm, and Forest House were only charging 65 Baht for a G&T.

I have noticed the affect of inflation over the last fifteen years but, to be fair, over that same period most of our wages or pensions have increased too.

I believe the growing number of bars, restaurants, hotels and apartments not only offers us choice, but better value for money as businesses compete for our Baht. I think the Pattaya gay scene is adapting to a more demanding clientele, and has a very bright future ahead of it.

I think the Pattaya gay scene is adapting to a more demanding clientele ...Demanding clientele? Pattaya?

[Aunty]

Well if all Vietnamese guys looked like this, then I think Vietnam would give Thailand quite a run for the gay dollar. Especially if it started opening up gogo bars and the like. But with the communists in charge, it's unlikely to happen, so I think Thailand and in particular Pattaya faces no real risk yet from there.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee266/Aunties_photos/Vietguy.jpg

[sattahip-old]

H, you appear to have a bee in your, fortunately, small bonnet.

[Smiles]

" ... income which goes down even faster than I predicted on this message board). ... "
Making a statement such as this is probably acceptable once. But to include it in every post for the last 6 years has got to indicate some kind serious psychological twitch (PM me on this).
Perhaps Ikarus is ignored in the 'real' world? But on message boards ... how can one tell?

Cheers ...

[ikarus]

" ... income which goes down even faster than I predicted on this message board). ... "
Making a statement such as this is probably acceptable once. But to include it in every post for the last 6 years has got to indicate some kind serious psychological twitch (PM me on this).
Perhaps Ikarus is ignored in the 'real' world? But on message boards ... how can one tell?

Cheers ...
Smiles,
you are lying as usual. On this very message board I predicted the rise of UK pound and now it is decline. Your ignorance in economic issues is very well known , though you are known to gloat about performance of loonie (as if it has something to do with your personal qualities. By the way, loonie is still has very long way to go down and I think you are going to enjoy it, you are pretty stupid jerk.

H, you appear to have a bee in your, fortunately, small bonnet.Seems to have stung a few people, too :cyclopsani:

I think the Pattaya gay scene is adapting to a more demanding clientele ...Demanding clientele? Pattaya?

How can someone that professes that he has never been to Pattaya, have even the remotest idea as to whether the clientele are demanding or otherwise? I believe one needs to personally experience a place before being able to give their views on it with any accuracy.

So with that said Hommie, put a sock in it, or anything else you have at hand and try not to keep talking out of your other orifice. If I were you, which thank Buddha I am not, I would stick to giving opinions about Bangkok, which are at least normally quite reasonable, surprisingly as that may seem. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/whistle.gif



G.

How can someone that professes that he has never been to Pattaya, have even the remotest idea as to whether the clientele are demanding or otherwise? I believe one needs to personally experience a place before being able to give their views on it with any accuracy. Since only trash go to Pattaya, how could they be demanding? One of my Bangkok fiends refers to his occasional visits to Pattaya as "going slumming". However, I'm reminded that Mother Theresa chose to live in the slums, and that's how I think of some of our own Forum saints - Lunchtime O'Booze, for example. As for the "personal experience" comment, I'm storing that away; George's inconsistencies will find a use for it one day

[thaiworthy-old]

Doris,

You don't look like Mother Theresa! And I don't recall her guzzling the altar wine. And where's your bonnet? Hopefully it doesn't have a bee in it. But it would be a good place to hide the whiskey!

[Aunty]

How can someone that professes that he has never been to Pattaya, have even the remotest idea as to whether the clientele are demanding or otherwise? I believe one needs to personally experience a place before being able to give their views on it with any accuracy.

G.

It's clear to me, George, that Beryl has had another set back in his life, that again will have been brought about by his many deficiencies in character. He knows this.

He would have seen this pattern before many times, but will still be perplexed and frustrated as to why it keeps on happening to him. He's perfect right, and is entitled to the success, high accolades and achievements, and association with superior people that his magnificence brings. So how come he keeps fucking up he asks himself? But that's the thing. he actually doesn't ask those questions because to do some serious refection on himself and the sort of man he is is the last thing Beryl will ever do. Superior people don't need to do that, right, so any failures which produce a cognitive dissonance in him about himself will be buried, probably in alcohol as self-medication, and in acting out and projecting his anger and rage about his failures and serious (and I mean serious as in greater than what most people have) flaws. And this behaviour will happen every time he has a personal setback, and he will keep on having those, because they are hard-wired into his nature.

Beryl is obessed with people like you and me George becuase he sees in us things he wants but knows he'll never have.

Now can we please get this thread back on topic.

... my stalker just can't leave his obsession alone. Still, as my niece, Aunty is able to confirm the veracity of everything I write - and often has

[ikarus]

From farangs perspective what is important is that Thailand remain stable and free of muslim terrorist attacks. ........

Another less significant observation is that there are more Russians than ever in Pattaya. I predict, however, that the number of Russian tourists picked this year as US most probably entering the recession and the price of oil (and natural gas) is going to plunge taking back Russian fortune which is solely based on this commodity..........

IMHO Pattaya is moving towards catering to more affluent visitors.

Ikarus, I beg to differ.

Although I hope that Thailand will become free of any terrorist attacks (Muslim, or otherwise), there is no sign of this happening.

As a resident farang, I (like most farangs and Thais) am not directly affected by who happens to be running the country, so some political and economic instability would actually be quite acceptable (particularly to the exchange rate)!

I fail to see any connection between the vast majority of Russian and East European tourists, who are mainly families on budget package holidays, and the price of oil and gas. Most are spending any surplus money buying clothes in Tesco-Lotus and eating food from the supermarkets rather than in "good quality ethnic restaurants". What I can see, however, is their sheer numbers driving other holidaymakers elsewhere.

I cannot agree that Pattaya has "no choice as to cater to more affluent tourists". This has long been the City administration's stated aim, but given the total lack of anything which would attract affluent tourists here over, for example, the Maldives, the Caribbean, Mauritius, the Seychelles, and a myriad of other destinations (not including Vietnam!) it appears to be totally unrealistic.

The beaches have never been stunning, they are now narrower, more polluted and less attractive than ever, the traffic is a major problem (regardless of whether you are staying in a "hassle free" hotel or not, and armed and violent crime against farangs and Thais alike is spiraling.

The housing market is stagnant, at best, and only a Pattaya real-estate agent / developer could seriously write that prices and values are continuing to rise while admitting that no-one is buying! Any commodity is only worth what it can be sold for, nothing more. If Ocean 1 fails to go ahead as planned, as seems more than likely, this could spark a worse collapse in the condominium market.

Pattaya is now openly under the control of Kamnan Pho (Somchai Khunpluem) and his family, the best known of Thailand's "dark influences" and this, together with the still possible opening of a casino at Ambassador City, could have a dramatic affect on Pattaya's future.

The Pattaya area, as I have said elsewhere, has a lot going for it as somewhere to live. What it can never be is a prime destination for "affluent tourists".
Well, you seem to be an expert on everything but you need to check your facts before posting. Thre are , in fact, a number of excellent Russian restaurants in Pattaya which are by no means cheap and right now they are all very busy. You definitely underestimate the spending power of Russians which are essentially everywhere in Pattaya including major gay venues. Thre is , in fact, a very direct relationship between the price of oil and Russian prosperity and hence ability of Russians to travel and spend. Thus, it is quite strange that you do not see any connection. Your prediction regarding Ocean plaza is quite dire (do you think that people invest millions of dollars without studying the market first) and surely real estate market is not going to collapse no matter what happens with this projects. By the way, many Russians do buy condos in Pattaya and thre are even Russian real estate agencies over here. Where do you get the information about who is running Pattaya. The results of the elections in Chonbury definitely do not confirm your statements... There always have been many very affluent visitors and residents in Pattaya. You see Maldives (as a muslim country) cannot deliver the kind of entertainment Pattaya has to offer. Though you are a resident but your post is just purely nonsensical and shows your total ignorance.

Though you are a resident but your post is just purely nonsensical and shows your total ignorance.

Ikarus,

Your reading of my post, your interpretation of it, and your interpretation of "facts" as you think I have stated them are mistaken, at best. I have never claimed to be "an expert on everything", and in some posts I specifically refer to my lack of knowledge in a number of areas, including local ones.

If you are going to pick out "facts" that you consider "nonsensical" in my post (or any one else's), particularly where you say they show my "total ignorance" at least have the courtesy of reading what has been written first, which you do not appear to have done.

To answer your points in turn:

"There are, in fact, a number of excellent Russian restaurants in Pattaya ..... right now they are all very busy". There are indeed a large number of Russian restaurants in Pattaya; I have no idea if they are excellent or not, nor how busy they are. I fail to see the relevance: I do not dispute this,nor did I do so. As you say yourself "Russians are essentially everywhere in Pattaya" and the numbers these restaurants could cater for, even if filled to capacity, is only a small proportion of the Russian and East European tourists here.

"There is , in fact,a very direct relationship between the price of oil and Russian prosperity ....". Of course there is, but to draw that out to conclude that the only reason Russians are currently able and willing to come to Pattaya in the numbers they currently are is because the price of oil is high, as you do, ignores a myriad of other factors.

"Your prediction regarding Ocean Plaza is quite dire (do you think that people invest millions of dollars without studying the market first) and surely real estate market is not going to collapse no matter what happens with this projects." We will all have to wait and see what happens with Ocean 1, however at the moment the infrastructure to support this type of construction is not there and it would be difficult to see how it could appear within anywhere near the suggested time-frame, even if all went according to plan. There is little actual sign of anyone investing "millions of dollars" in the project, although it is clear that some investors were perfectly willing to invest speculatively even before test bores had been made. Your confident prediction concerning the housing market's strength is reminiscent of many similar comments made ten years ago.

".... many Russians do buy condos ...." As do many British, Swedish, American, etc, etc. Why is this pertinent to my post and my "ignorance"? You are quite right, but the increase in East Europeans buying property has only gone a very small way to making up the considerable drop in property sales over the last year or two, as the briefest scan of any local real-estate magazine will tell you.

"Where do you get your information about who is running Pattaya. The results of the elections in Chonbury definitely do not confirm your statements." I had thought that the influence and power of Somchai Khunpluem's family in the Eastern Seaboard were sufficiently well known not to need elaboration. His son is currently the "advisor" to the Mayor, whose picture he has replaced on many of the billboards welcoming visitors to Pattaya.

"There always have been many very affluent residents and visitors in Pattaya". True, at least as far as the last twenty years or so are concerned - I agree and never commented otherwise, but the number as a proportion of overall visitor and resident numbers is very low in comparison with other "prime destinations for affluent tourists", which is surely the point.

"Maldives (as a muslim country) cannot deliver the kind of entertainment Pattaya has to offer". Of course it cannot, however that is only relevant as concerns tourists looking for "the kind of entertainment Pattaya has to offer", which is not what the majority of "affluent tourists" going to the Maldives or most other destinations considered "up-market", irrespective of whether they are Muslim or not, are looking for.

Thank you for re-inforcing my point, albeit unwittingly: tourists, whether "affluent" or not, have traditionally come to Pattaya, in considerable numbers, for precisely "the kind of entertainment Pattaya has to offer" - no more and no less. If the Pattaya authorities insist on changing the target market, as you say they have no option but to do, they risk losing the traditional market without replacing it by a new one.

... reading what Aunty really thinks of all you scum at Pattaya - http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... .php?e=371 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=371)

George must be so proud of having such a champion, with those views of Pattaya, its bars and their patrons

[ikarus]

From farangs perspective what is important is that Thailand remain stable and free of muslim terrorist attacks. ........

Another less significant observation is that there are more Russians than ever in Pattaya. I predict, however, that the number of Russian tourists picked this year as US most probably entering the recession and the price of oil (and natural gas) is going to plunge taking back Russian fortune which is solely based on this commodity..........

IMHO Pattaya is moving towards catering to more affluent visitors.

Ikarus, I beg to differ.

Although I hope that Thailand will become free of any terrorist attacks (Muslim, or otherwise), there is no sign of this happening.

As a resident farang, I (like most farangs and Thais) am not directly affected by who happens to be running the country, so some political and economic instability would actually be quite acceptable (particularly to the exchange rate)!

I fail to see any connection between the vast majority of Russian and East European tourists, who are mainly families on budget package holidays, and the price of oil and gas. Most are spending any surplus money buying clothes in Tesco-Lotus and eating food from the supermarkets rather than in "good quality ethnic restaurants". What I can see, however, is their sheer numbers driving other holidaymakers elsewhere.

I cannot agree that Pattaya has "no choice as to cater to more affluent tourists". This has long been the City administration's stated aim, but given the total lack of anything which would attract affluent tourists here over, for example, the Maldives, the Caribbean, Mauritius, the Seychelles, and a myriad of other destinations (not including Vietnam!) it appears to be totally unrealistic.

The beaches have never been stunning, they are now narrower, more polluted and less attractive than ever, the traffic is a major problem (regardless of whether you are staying in a "hassle free" hotel or not, and armed and violent crime against farangs and Thais alike is spiraling.

The housing market is stagnant, at best, and only a Pattaya real-estate agent / developer could seriously write that prices and values are continuing to rise while admitting that no-one is buying! Any commodity is only worth what it can be sold for, nothing more. If Ocean 1 fails to go ahead as planned, as seems more than likely, this could spark a worse collapse in the condominium market.

Pattaya is now openly under the control of Kamnan Pho (Somchai Khunpluem) and his family, the best known of Thailand's "dark influences" and this, together with the still possible opening of a casino at Ambassador City, could have a dramatic affect on Pattaya's future.

The Pattaya area, as I have said elsewhere, has a lot going for it as somewhere to live. What it can never be is a prime destination for "affluent tourists".
Well, you seem to be an expert on everything but you need to check your facts before posting. Thre are , in fact, a number of excellent Russian restaurants in Pattaya which are by no means cheap and right now they are all very busy. You definitely underestimate the spending power of Russians which are essentially everywhere in Pattaya including major gay venues. Thre is , in fact, a very direct relationship between the price of oil and Russian prosperity and hence ability of Russians to travel and spend. Thus, it is quite strange that you do not see any connection. Your prediction regarding Ocean plaza is quite dire (do you think that people invest millions of dollars without studying the market first) and surely real estate market is not going to collapse no matter what happens with this projects. By the way, many Russians do buy condos in Pattaya and thre are even Russian real estate agencies over here. Where do you get the information about who is running Pattaya. The results of the elections in Chonbury definitely do not confirm your statements... There always have been many very affluent visitors and residents in Pattaya. You see Maldives (as a muslim country) cannot deliver the kind of entertainment Pattaya has to offer. Though you are a resident but your post is just purely nonsensical and shows your total ignorance.
Since you do not deny any of my facts, it is very difficult to continue this discussion. I guess we need to wait and see how my predictions work out till next year.
However, those who are currently in Pattaya, please, buy the current issue of Pattaya Today (vol. 7, issue 8, January 1-15 2008. On the first page you will see the title "
Unexpected election results in Chonburi". In particular, it says and I quote: In zone I, which includes Chonburi itself, Mr Pramuan Empia of the Democratic party took the firm lead with 105,402 votes beating Mr Amarin Tangrakorb of Chart Thai who received just 64,503. This was another complete surprise as Mr Amarin is the nephew of the influential Mr Somchai Khunplome who is also known as Kam Nan Poh.... Read the whole article. A lot of information about "influential" figure mentioned above.
This is another sign of change in Pattaya...
Let me add here (regarding the previous comments of Gone fishing) that in light of recent events in places like Kenya, Sudan, Somali and closer to home Burma, it is highly idiotice of any expat in Thailand to wish this country instability ...
I cannot characterize myself as a regular contributor to this forum but I read iot quite regularly and unfortunate recent trend is that some of the expats (for reasons which generally escape me) present here a picture of Pattaya which has nothing to do with reality and quite unfortunately Gone fishing is one of such contributors.

[thrillbill]

The only reason for straights or gays to come to Pattaya is the easy opportunity to let their hair down and enjoy the sexual adventures that probably are not as easy to experience at their home country. (Come on, could a gay 72year old 289 pound Anglo-Saxon really be able to strut down the beach in his thong back in his home country with his "five-day BF" that is young enough to be his grandson? ) Also, if one is not a 5 star hotel travelor, there are some decent cheap places to eat and stay at in Pattaya compared to other cities around the world.

Yes, there are more families vacationing in Pattaya, but the majority of them are Russians who probably don't know any thing different about resort places in Thailand (and they do get those chartered flights straight down to Pattaya). byk the way, many of them DO stay in the 5 star hotels, so they're not all here because of being on a budget.

The beaches are littered with debris washed in from the sea; the sea water itself is a murkey grey; and the trail of vendors on the beach makes the place look like some coastal place in Nigeria. So anyone that REALLY wants a post card beach vacation will not come to Pattaya...there are too many other nice places in Thailand to go to. And these people don't care about price as much as the cleanliness and hassle free of their destination. (God,you can't even cross the streets in Pattaya without taking a risk of getting hit because of the non stop racing buses, baht busses , and motor bikes.)

...So yes, as long as Pattaya is a playground for adults, the prices or decaying infrastruture (if there ever was one) won't matter.

Ikarus,

like your namesake you seem to have got a bit too much of the sun!

There is no need when posting to quote all of not only your previous post but that of whoever you have chosen to disagree with.

Since you do not deny any of my facts,

It is not your facts I disagree with (you actually state very few), rather the conclusions you draw from them.

Unexpected election results in Chonburi....... In zone I, which includes Chonburi itself .....This is another sign of change in Pattaya.....

Your facts are correct, but they do not support your conclusion. That Democrat candidates won the majority of seats in the urban areas, such as Bangkok and Chonburi, can hardly have been a surprise to most people and it is by no means a sign of change in Pattaya - the two are not connected. Issiporn Khunpluem is currently banned from holding any elected office, as he was a minister in the last (TRT) government, but it is his smiling face welcoming you to Pattaya, not the mayor's and not the MPs'. In some ways it is possible that this may not be a bad thing, as he may have ways of reducing the rising level of street crime, which will undoubtedly affect Pattaya (and his business interests) if it is not halted, which are not available to the police.

Let me add here (regarding the previous comments of Gone fishing) that in light of recent events in places like Kenya, Sudan, Somali and closer to home Burma, it is highly idiotice of any expat in Thailand to wish this country instability ...

Sorry, but here not only is your conclusion wrong, but also your facts as to what I said. There is a vast difference between wishing this country instability of the like seen in Kenya, Sudan, Somalia and Burma, and the comment that "some political and economic instability would actually be quite acceptable (particularly to the exchange rate)!". I certainly hope that the Bangkok Post was wrong when, in an article yesterday (7 Jan) it predicted that there was a possibility in 2010 or 2011 of an economic collapse more far raching and more serious than that of 10 years ago.

I cannot characterize myself as a regular contributor to this forum but I read iot quite regularly and unfortunate recent trend is that some of the expats (for reasons which generally escape me) present here a picture of Pattaya which has nothing to do with reality and quite unfortunately Gone fishing is one of such contributors.

You appear to think that I am damning Pattaya both unjustifiably and unreasonably; maybe you missed my post in a previous topic, questioning what was good about Pattaya (Back Home But Wish I Wasn't), when I summarised my reasons for choosing to retire here as follows:

" I live near Pattaya as I find it gives me the benefits of having excellent general shopping, international standard hospitals and veterinarians, good beaches (such as Ban Chang, Mabthaput and Sattahip), good sports facilities, etc, with none of the disadvantages of living in a big city, at a very reasonable cost".

At the same time I am only too well aware of Pattaya's shortcomings and can see little point in turning a blind eye to them.

If you honestly believe that Pattaya's beaches are attractive, the traffic is not a problem, crime is under control, the housing market is booming, the infrastructure is sound, etc, etc, and that "the kind of entertainment Pattaya has to offer" is ensuring Pattaya's future as a quality destination for "affluent tourists" then you are right - "it is very difficult to continue this discussion".

...So yes, as long as Pattaya is a playground for adults, the prices or decaying infrastruture (if there ever was one) won't matter.

One thing I find genuinely amusing is that while Russian and East Europeans, most with families, are replacing the infamous drunken British and European "sex tourists", many of those tourists are now choosing to go to Eastern Europe instead - to the exent that Riga, in Latvia, is now known as "the Bangkok of the Baltic"!

Beryl is obessed with people like you and me George becuase he sees in us things he wants but knows he'll never have.

Thank you for that Aunty, what you have said above is something I have always believed. I am delighted you share my opinion concerning Homi's obsession with us, as well as certain other members here.


Beryl Now can we please get this thread back on topic.

Of Course we can. All I can say is what ever direction Pattaya is headed in the future, it will be one which thankfully, as Homi has vowed never to visit here, one that is not influenced in any way whatsoever one way or the other by him. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/biglaugh.gif


George.

[kittyboy]

Beryl is obessed with people like you and me George becuase he sees in us things he wants but knows he'll never have.

Thank you for that Aunty, what you have said above is something I have always believed. I am delighted you share my opinion concerning Homi's obsession with us, as well as certain other members here.


Beryl Now can we please get this thread back on topic.

Of Course we can. All I can say is what ever direction Pattaya is headed in the future, it will be one which thankfully, as Homi has vowed never to visit here, one that is not influenced in any way whatsoever one way or the other by him. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/biglaugh.gif


George.



Hey Aunty - I don't know you or Homitern but I doubt he is envious of you - I suspect he enjoys taunting you because from my perspective you seem to be a bit full of yourself. I think the old goat (Homnitern) is funny and you are his perfect straight man (as it were). I doubt I will ever meet any of you folks but if I had to choose who I would want to go out with on a pub crawl.... ah... it would have to be homnitern. At least he has a sense of humor.

Hey George and Aunty - I don't know you or Homitern

Quite right Kitty you don't, but then again coming from Milwaukee, you probably don't know much about anything. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/whistle.gif Only teasing you Kitty, as after all, someone has to come from there don't they? http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/biggrinangel.gif

Although I can't speak for Aunty, I am sure that there will be some that may agree with you about my being a bit full of myself. However, as far as my being a straight man to Hommie, or anyone else for that matter, if you looked up the word straight in the English Oxford, I assure you that you wouldn't see my name beside it as a definition for any meaning applying to the word, especially after having gone through almost two decades, not even knowing what the word meant. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/silly.gif

Also, to insinuate that I am in lacking in a sense of humour, makes it certain that you are 100 per cent correct in your admission, that you really do not know me.

As far as Hommie is concerned, I wouldn't mind going on a pub crawl with him myself, although there is little danger of that happening, as I would insist it took place in Pattaya. However, if it were possible, I am sure that it would no doubt be a lot more interesting and entertaining, than going on one with someone that is apparently a psychic, as well as coming from Milwaukee. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/biglaugh.gif


Choc Dee Kitty, glad you kept the thread on target. Oh yes, nearly forgot, say hi to Tom Barrett for me if you happen to run in to him around town. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/cool_shades.gif


G.

... are you really proud to be supported by the Board's leading racist and ageist, especially one who has such a low opinion of Pattaya? - http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... .php?e=371 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=371)

... are you really proud to be supported by the Board's leading racist and ageist, especially one who has such a low opinion of Pattaya? - http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... .php?e=371 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=371)

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/no_no.gif Now come on Hommie, don't try and pull that one on me. Who I am supported by on this board, has nothing to do with what you are doing, that being to try and miss-lead by the way that you are wrongly portraying things. As I am unaware of having any disciples on this forum, in spite of your proclaiming me the Forums Resident Bodhisattva, http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/whistle.gif I am sure that any posts of mine that are supported by others, are only done so by them, when they are in agreement with what I have said.

I see more evidence of prejudice than racism in this thread and as is the norm where Aunty is concerned, it's all coming from your direction once again. I don't believe that the worst of what I consider could be construed as racist remarks in this thread, have come from Aunty at all.

Is it true that you get some kind of sexual perversion in your taunts, as well as your continual barrage of abuse against this member? It is my belief that there is a strong possibility that you do. Do you? It's beyond me what possible other reason there could be, although I am sure you will not miss the opportunity of telling me, as well as no doubt, a few other things not asked as well. Oh well, come on Hommie, bring it on. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/rolleyes.gif


G.

Is it true that you get some kind of sexual perversion in your taunts, as well as your continual barrage of abuse against this member? Ah, ah, ah, ah, coming as I write. AAAAAAAAAAAAAH. As Aunty is my niece, that also counts as incest, of course

[PeterUK]

It's beyond me what possible other reason there could be.

I'll let you into a little secret, George. The fact is that posters like Aunty (and, I'm afraid, your good self - but there are others too), bring unwanted attention upon themselves with their displays of uncontrolled anger at times. They think they are showing how assertive and virile they can be, but actually they are merely a) playing into the hands of the likes of homintern, whose sole self-admitted purpose here is to wind people up (and have fun doing it), and b) making themselves look foolish and unintentionally comical to everyone else. It's perfectly natural to feel anger when reading hateful views or crudely-expressed personal attacks, but many people then make the mistake of penning an instant reply while their blood is still up. The thing to do is to go away for a while, do something else, a bit of deep breathing perhaps, and then return to the keyboard feeling lighter and more humorous. Your posts will be the better for it, and so will the tone of the board - and the likes of homintern will eventually lose interest in you and look elsewhere.

It's beyond me what possible other reason there could be.

I'll let you into a little secret, George. The fact is that posters like Aunty (and, I'm afraid, your good self - but there are others too), bring unwanted attention upon themselves with their displays of uncontrolled anger at times.

Hi Peter, I thought that I should let you know that your assumption of my showing uncontrollable anger in my posts, is completely wrong and is, whether you choose to believe it or not, nowhere even close to being true. Hommie doesn't wind me up in the slightest and most of my replies to him are very much tongue in cheek, as I am sure he is well aware.

If some of my posts are being construed by you as being typed in anger, you are definitely not reading them as they are being written. Just thought I would set the record straight where this was concerned.


Choc Dee,


George,

[netrix]

You children are rediculous. This forum's most popular posts are never on topic...
they're just bitch-fests and pissing contests.

Regarding the bar/disco Body Language near Sunee Plaza, I was just there a few
nights ago with a couple of Thai friends. I never would have found it if they had
not invited me to come along. We were a bit early at about 1:00 am but the place
filled up quickly. I saw only one other farang. Popular place with the local gay
crowd. Drinks were reasonable, music typical dance music. There were 4 "Coyote"
dancers rotating posts around the floor. Fun little club. Ask your Thai boy to show
you where it is for some after-hour fun.

- and the likes of homintern will eventually lose interest in you and look elsewhere.In your dreams, Peter, in your dreams. What interests me about Aunty and George and that crowd is their po-facedness, which simply invites ridicule up and down, left to right. How they react is the icing, not the cake itself - don't get the two confused

[Aunty]

Just ignore them George, these people are losers (and in one case, obviously mentally ill as well) all with an axe to grind nursing their resentments and nothing more. They are not worth the time of day. I have no doubt you have a happy, successful and fun filled life in Pattaya much as I do in Auckland and these ranting morons are irrelevant to it. They don't know you and they don't know me, contrary to their fantasy otherwise. (And thank god for that, who would want to know them!) Like you, George, my posts are seldom written in anger, comments claiming that they are tell you more about the reader than they do about the poster. Let's leave the ranting and raving to the lunatics, eh? Crazy is as crazy does and they are superb evidence for it!

... is my stalker back again?

[llz]

Regarding the bar/disco Body Language near Sunee Plaza, I was just there a few nights ago with a couple of Thai friends. I never would have found it if they had not invited me to come along. We were a bit early at about 1:00 am but the place filled up quickly. I saw only one other farang. Popular place with the local gay crowd. Drinks were reasonable, music typical dance music. There were 4 "Coyote"
dancers rotating posts around the floor. Fun little club. Ask your Thai boy to show you where it is for some after-hour fun.

Thank you for the information which deserves better than being buried in this rubbish ... is this bar/disco located within walking distance from Sunee area ?

[Bob]

You children are rediculous. This forum's most popular posts are never on topic...
they're just bitch-fests and pissing contests.


A relatively new poster. Netrix, you're quite perceptive but, given there really isn't any moderation here, expect the romper room to stay open.

A relatively new poster. Netrix, you're quite perceptive but, given there really isn't any moderation here, expect the romper room to stay open.Yep, it's known as honouring the First Amendment

Too be fair, not all topics go off the rails like this one. Even if a 'have a bitch' thread was started there would still be this stuff in other threads.

I enjoy it for a while, sometimes it's a huge crack-up, but sometimes people need to know when to stop.
Really, for me it's 'whatever floats your boat' and I realise that some of this stuff helps us to get to know each other a bit better.

Just think of it as a group bonding exercise.

[netrix]

llz, yes Body Language is walking distance from Sunee. I walked with my Thai
friends in about 10 min or less, but we cut through alleys I didn't know existed.
My friend wanted to show me where his room was. You can walk but may need
to ask for directions. I guarantee all the boys in Sunee know where it is and
many are headed there after the other bars close. ;)

[ikarus]

Ikarus,

like your namesake you seem to have got a bit too much of the sun!

There is no need when posting to quote all of not only your previous post but that of whoever you have chosen to disagree with.

Since you do not deny any of my facts,

It is not your facts I disagree with (you actually state very few), rather the conclusions you draw from them.

Unexpected election results in Chonburi....... In zone I, which includes Chonburi itself .....This is another sign of change in Pattaya.....

Your facts are correct, but they do not support your conclusion. That Democrat candidates won the majority of seats in the urban areas, such as Bangkok and Chonburi, can hardly have been a surprise to most people and it is by no means a sign of change in Pattaya - the two are not connected. Issiporn Khunpluem is currently banned from holding any elected office, as he was a minister in the last (TRT) government, but it is his smiling face welcoming you to Pattaya, not the mayor's and not the MPs'. In some ways it is possible that this may not be a bad thing, as he may have ways of reducing the rising level of street crime, which will undoubtedly affect Pattaya (and his business interests) if it is not halted, which are not available to the police.

Let me add here (regarding the previous comments of Gone fishing) that in light of recent events in places like Kenya, Sudan, Somali and closer to home Burma, it is highly idiotice of any expat in Thailand to wish this country instability ...

Sorry, but here not only is your conclusion wrong, but also your facts as to what I said. There is a vast difference between wishing this country instability of the like seen in Kenya, Sudan, Somalia and Burma, and the comment that "some political and economic instability would actually be quite acceptable (particularly to the exchange rate)!". I certainly hope that the Bangkok Post was wrong when, in an article yesterday (7 Jan) it predicted that there was a possibility in 2010 or 2011 of an economic collapse more far raching and more serious than that of 10 years ago.

I cannot characterize myself as a regular contributor to this forum but I read iot quite regularly and unfortunate recent trend is that some of the expats (for reasons which generally escape me) present here a picture of Pattaya which has nothing to do with reality and quite unfortunately Gone fishing is one of such contributors.

You appear to think that I am damning Pattaya both unjustifiably and unreasonably; maybe you missed my post in a previous topic, questioning what was good about Pattaya (Back Home But Wish I Wasn't), when I summarised my reasons for choosing to retire here as follows:

" I live near Pattaya as I find it gives me the benefits of having excellent general shopping, international standard hospitals and veterinarians, good beaches (such as Ban Chang, Mabthaput and Sattahip), good sports facilities, etc, with none of the disadvantages of living in a big city, at a very reasonable cost".

At the same time I am only too well aware of Pattaya's shortcomings and can see little point in turning a blind eye to them.

If you honestly believe that Pattaya's beaches are attractive, the traffic is not a problem, crime is under control, the housing market is booming, the infrastructure is sound, etc, etc, and that "the kind of entertainment Pattaya has to offer" is ensuring Pattaya's future as a quality destination for "affluent tourists" then you are right - "it is very difficult to continue this discussion".
Te reason I quote your posts because you keep editing it. You are an absolute idiot or pretending to be one. Your posts are absolutely nonsensical and misleading. Whether you enjoy Pattaya or not is totally irrelevant. Pattaya is changing because of the general rise of costs of traveling and living in this area. My posts irritated you because you feel the hit as someone living on very limited dollar-denominated income and you pour all this rubbish over here. Sorry, I cannot help you. Your life is bound to be more and more complicated with cost of living in Pattaya on the rise.
You are on my ignore list from now on as an absolute jerk and I am not going to waist my time to respond to your garbage.
Speaking of places like Body language, there are more places like that. But they are not easy to find. Ask you Thai friends (though not all of them can help).
In my view operators of more traditional entertainment venues (like in Boystown) should look at possibility of licensing like Body language has (in essense, it is a discotheque with male Coyote dancing) simplybecause places like Body language are always crowded and can stay open all night if not for any other reason. I do not know for how long traditional go go bars can sustain being completely empty during the high season but my guess not for long.
Either operators of traditional venues realize that the traditional approach no longer work (due to the diminishing number of patrons reflecting dwindling number of travelers) or I am afraid they are not going to stay around for long.
The first area to go will be Jomtien with sois adjacent to Boystown following suit. The Sunee will survive maintained by never diminishing flood of pedophiles till someone on the top of Thai government finally realize what an embarrassment for the country the area presently is.
I hope that tuk-tuks will go. It is impossible not to see that the number of tuk-tuks is increasing every year. They continue to move along traditional routes empty or half-empty creating traffic jam and air pollution. Let us face it: it is archaic, primitive and unsafe way of transportation. Their presence is not necessary (except of may be for a route between South Pattaya and Jomtien where they can be substituted by buses though introduction of buses several years ago apparently was not successful). The hope is now with the growing fleet of yellow and pink taxes which are very visible in more affluent Northern part of Pattaya. I wonder what it really takes to take tuk-tuk operators out of business, since as I mentioned before),
they really have almost no customers anymore.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Te reason I quote your posts because you keep editing it. You are an absolute idiot or pretending to be one. Your posts are absolutely nonsensical and misleading.

Then the name "gonefishing" has a deeper meaning than your getting.



I hope that tuk-tuks will go.


Seldom see one in Pattaya?

I recall some time ago, years, that there was an announcement that tuk-tuks would be phased out, no new ones were to be built and this would eventually lead to a total ban on them for Bangkok. The numbers are reduced but there still here and I see new ones all the time.

Te reason I quote your posts because you keep editing it. You are an absolute idiot or pretending to be one. Your posts are absolutely nonsensical and misleading.


Then the name "gonefishing" has a deeper meaning than your getting.

That would seem I have to agree, to be very much the case. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/whistle.gif


I hope that tuk-tuks will go.


Seldom see one in Pattaya?

I never see one in Pattaya. Do you think that he could possibly be referring to Songtaew's? I believe that he is and
if this is so, I think he would be very much in the minority in his wish to see them go. The reason for this being, they are relied on as the sole form of transport by many Thais and Farang alike.


Cheers,


George.

[Smiles]

" ... I never see one in Pattaya. Do you think that he could possibly be referring to Songtaew's? ... "
Could it be that Ikarus has never been to Pattaya .... much less Thailand?

Cheers ...

Ikarus,

I really do think that personal abuse of the sort you and your friend mi_87 seem to thrive on, simply because someone has a different experience to you, is pointless and does little to support whatever case you are trying to make.

Te reason I quote your posts because you keep editing it.
Your quote is identical to my post; the editing was to remove duplicate posts submitted, as some other posters' were at the time, due to some programming error - as I said in the relevant posts.

My posts irritated you because you feel the hit as someone living on very limited dollar-denominated income and you pour all this rubbish over here. Sorry, I cannot help you. Your life is bound to be more and more complicated with cost of living in Pattaya on the rise. Your assumptions are totally incorrect. Your initial post did not "irritate" me at all; you were expressing your thoughts as to Pattaya's future, and as this is a forum rather than your personal blog I simply disagreed with your conclusions and "begged to differ" - nothing more. I am not on a "very limited dollar-denominated income", nor on a dollar-related income at all. While my personal finances are my own affair, my income and finances were sufficient to enable me to stop working entirely in my mid-thirties and to retire here comfortably fifteen years ago; fortunately they remain sufficient for the foreseeable future. Personally I have seen little sign of any greater rise in the cost of living in Pattaya than anywhere else.

You are on my ignore list from now on as an absolute jerk and I am not going to waist my time to respond to your garbage. I have no objection to that at all!

licensing like Body language has .... because places like Body language ... can stay open all night
All night licences ???

It is impossible not to see that the number of tuk-tuks is increasing every year
The number of licenced song-taews, if that is what is meant, has remained constant for several years at around 700. If they had "almost no customers anymore" they would be out of business already - pink and yellow taxis are hardly a viable alternative for the majority of their customers!

As for the suggestion that there is more to my "nom de plume" than meets the eye, I can assure TrongPai Expat and George that I am simply posting my own views and personal experiences, 100% truthfully, with no hidden meanings and certainly no attempt to wind anyone up. If we all had the same views and the same experiences there would be no need for this or any other forum. I simply do not see Pattaya ever becoming an up-market tourist destination appealing solely to affluent tourists, or that there are any major signs of this happening, or that Pattaya has no option but to pursue this aim. Nothing more

[naklua]

Speaking of places like Body language, there are more places like that. But they are not easy to find. Ask you Thai friends (though not all of them can help).
In my view operators of more traditional entertainment venues (like in Boystown) should look at possibility of licensing like Body language has (in essense, it is a discotheque with male Coyote dancing) simplybecause places like Body language are always crowded and can stay open all night if not for any other reason. I do not know for how long traditional go go bars can sustain being completely empty during the high season but my guess not for long.
Either operators of traditional venues realize that the traditional approach no longer work (due to the diminishing number of patrons reflecting dwindling number of travelers) or I am afraid they are not going to stay around for long.

I think places like Body Language can only prosper because up to now they are few in numbers, especially compared to the number of gogo bars. I dare to guess that BL-like venues would have much less customers if there were more competitors of the same type.
Dont get me wrong - I dont want to belittle the enrichment places like these bring to people looking for some gay-style night entertainment. I just dont think that the gogo bars should adopt the BL-business idea as the gogo bars and the coyote featuring gay Thai discos are maybe not so much competing against the gogos but are complementing them, i.e. people start the daily nightlife with visits to gogo and beer bars and later walk on to the BL-like venues.
As far as licenseing is concerned, I dont think they are really allowed to stay open for all night. But as these places are off the beaten tracks, small and cater mainly to Thais, it might be easier for the police to get their palms greased for not disturbing their business.


The first area to go will be Jomtien with sois adjacent to Boystown following suit. The Sunee will survive maintained by never diminishing flood of pedophiles till someone on the top of Thai government finally realize what an embarrassment for the country the area presently is.

Especially the second sentence does not have to do too much with reality. If Sunee really was flourishing on pedo trade, how could one explain the many, many customers sitting in the beer bars without any children at their side? As a matter of fact Sunee has got much more beer bars than Boystown - if it really was a heaven for child abusers there should only be dimmly lit gogo bars whose doormen would very carefully choose the customers allowed to enter.
Some of the gogo bars might have some underage boys on their payroll, but underage and pedophilia is not the same, as being underage does not equal being a child. If this was equal, than people having legally sex with boys or girls aged 15 - 18 years (i.e. when no money is involved, or in reality: when they are both Thais...) were pedos.

Finally, I also dont think it is adequate to insinuate that Sunee Plaza was the only area in Thailand were one could possibly see underage prostitutes. They are said to be all over Thailand and their customers are mostly Thais. Especially the HiSo-elite is said to be interested almost exclusively in underage prostitutes. As these people are the members of the Thai government (no matter if it is a democratic, semi-democratic or autocratic one) they have of course never really be to eager to get rid of underage prostitution. They just pay lip service to its eradication and thus make it more easy for their police cronies to extort money.

[netrix]

people start the daily nightlife with visits to gogo and beer bars and later walk on to the BL-like venues.

Not exactly. The people going to Body Language and similar venues open after hours are largely local Thai gays out for some fun with their friends after work. When I was there I only saw one farang and he was with a group of Thai guys who were friends. If anyone is comparing go go bars and late night discos, they're comparing apples and coconuts.

[andrewcraig]

people start the daily nightlife with visits to gogo and beer bars and later walk on to the BL-like venues.

Not exactly. The people going to Body Language and similar venues open after hours are largely local Thai gays out for some fun with their friends after work. When I was there I only saw one farang and he was with a group of Thai guys who were friends. If anyone is comparing go go bars and late night discos, they're comparing apples and coconuts.

I believe that most of the Maya crowd now go to Body Language I never did find out what happened to Maya.
Did the BIB close it , was it just the rent in Walking Street too high.
Is there a chance it might reopen or has it gone completely

[ikarus]

people start the daily nightlife with visits to gogo and beer bars and later walk on to the BL-like venues.

Not exactly. The people going to Body Language and similar venues open after hours are largely local Thai gays out for some fun with their friends after work. When I was there I only saw one farang and he was with a group of Thai guys who were friends. If anyone is comparing go go bars and late night discos, they're comparing apples and coconuts.
I would not object to this description. I think, however, that places like that are not that popular with farangs since they are of the standard track and are not known to most of the visitors. The problem with go go bars in the areas I specified (sois adjacent to Boys town and Jomtien)that they were essentially empty during the period of end December beginning of January which is typically considered to be the peak of the season (with the exception of Wild West boys which get good crowds for their shows).
I have to admit that I know very little about licences for entertainment venues but it seems that all Discos are open for later hours then go go bars. Thre should be something about licences here.
All in all, I have made my predictions and we will see what is going to happen.
Regarding the idiotic comment of Smiles , he seem to degenerate with alarming speed and obviosly has nothing better to do than to fake sleeping positions of his bf.
People like Smiles simply do not realize that their lifes are over. They think they are alive but they are dead for all practical purposes. Or put it simply their existence is meaningless anymore...

[Smiles]

" ... People like Smiles simply do not realize that their lifes are over. They think they are alive but they are dead for all practical purposes. Or put it simply their existence is meaningless anymore..."
Precisely the reason I spend time (too much time) reading and writing on this Board.

In the 'Cosmic Giggle' theory of meaningfullness in the Grand Scheme of Things ('GST' in Canada), I've always believed that meaninglessness is everything.

Cheers ...

[lonelywombat]

Ikarus are you drunk

have you been to Pattaya

where are you coming from

Do you understand what you are saying

nobody else does

[ikarus]

Ikarus are you drunk

have you been to Pattaya

where are you coming from

Do you understand what you are saying

nobody else does
That may be the reason why this thread runs for so long. It seems even you, lonelywombat, learn something from it (about
Body language). What precisely you do not understand? Please, speak for yourself (i refer to your statement that nobody does). I assure you that I am not drunk and I am visiting Pattaya since 1994.

lonelywombat]Ikarus are you drunk

have you been to Pattaya

where are you coming from

Do you understand what you are saying

nobody else does


ikarus] Please, speak for yourself (i refer to your statement that nobody does).


Well as far as I am concerned ikarus, wombat was certainly speaking for me when he said above, that nobody understands what you are saying. Furthermore, I bet he would be speaking for many others here if the truth were known. The only person I can see that does seems to know what you are going on about is your puppet. Or could it be that you are the puppet and he is the ventriloquist. Mmmm, http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/headscratch.gif not really sure about that one. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/GBR1001.jpg

One thing I am sure about, is anyone who says that there are too many Tuk Tuc's on Pattaya's roads, would have to be smoking some very serious shit in my opinion. I have never had hallucinations as bizarre as seeing all those Tuk Tuk's around town that you do, even when I have been on some damn good mushrooms. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/biglaugh.gif Was it like this? http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/bangkok_tuk_tuk.jpg

Cheers, http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/rolleyes.gif


G.