Myths about Asian men: Comments, please.

[Hmmm]

That's quite a collection of prejudices you've collected there, although your purpose in posting them is perhaps a tad obscure.

Whenever I think of stereotypes I think of Monty Python's classic 'Prejudice' sketch:

"Good evening and welcome to another edition of 'Prejudice' - the show that gives you a chance to have a go at Wops, Krauts, Nigs, Eyeties, Gippos, Bubbles, Froggies, Chinks, Yidds, Jocks, Polacks, Paddies and Dagoes. (applause; he goes to desk at side of stage)
SUPERIMPOSED CAPTION: 'ALL FACTS VERIFIED BY THE RHODESIAN POLICE'
Braddon Tonight's show comes live from the tiny village of Rabid in Buckinghamshire, and our first question tonight is from a Mrs Elizabeth Scrint who says she is going on a Mediterranean cruise next week and can't find anything wrong with the Syrians. Well, Mrs Scrint, apart from being totally unprincipled left-wing troublemakers, the Syrians are also born skivers, they're dirty, smelly and untrustworthy, and, of course, they're friends of the awful gippos. (applause) There you are, Mrs Scrint, I hope that answers some of your problems - have a nice trip. (more applause) Well now, the result of last week's competition when we asked you to find a derogatory term for the Belgians. Well, the response was enormous and we took quite a long time sorting out the winners. There were some very clever entries. Mrs Hatred of Leicester Said 'let's not call them anything, let's just ignore them' ... (applause starts vigorously, but he holds his hands up for silence) ... and a Mr St John of Huntingdon said he couldn't think of anything more derogatory than Belgians. (cheers and applause; a girl in showgirl costume comes on and holds up placards through next bit) But in the end we settled on three choices: number three ... the Sprouts (placard 'The Sprouts'), sent in by Mrs Vicious of Hastings... very nice ; number two..... the Phlegms (placard) ... from Mrs Childmolester of Worthing; but the winner was undoubtedly from Mrs No-Supper-For-You from Norwood in Lancashire... Miserable Fat Belgian Bastards. (placard; roar of applause) Very good - thank you, Carol. (Carol exits) But as you know on this programme we're not just prejudiced against race or colour, we're also prejudiced against - yes, you've guessed, stinking homosexuals! (applause) So before the streets start emptying in Chelsea tonight, Let's go straight over to our popular prejudiced panel game and invite you once again to - Shoot The Poof! And could our first contestant sign in please.
Cut to blackboard and entrance as they used to have in 'What's My Line'. A contestant comes from behind screen and starts to write his name.
Voice Over Our first contestant is a hairdresser from...
A shot rings out and the contestant falls to the floor. Applause."

http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode37.htm#10

[thaiworthy-old]

The only prejudice I did not see listed was the concept that Asians drive aggessively. But since that's the way many seem to drive these days, I couldn't personally credit that to just Asians. Another myth busted. However, one need only try to cross the street anywhere in Pattaya to suggest that it might be true!

Liked the words on the blackboard at the bottom of the post. But I can't cut and paste it.

I did enjoy Hmmm's cut-and-paste of the Monty Python sketch. Especially since I was never much of a fan of their style of comedy.

Gee, what is it again why cut-and-paste is so annoying?

obviously the one re Rambo is a fallacy - his side lost in Vietnam. The rest of them are equally inaccurate and offensive.

[Aunty]

Great post Rainwalker! This is not in any way intended to be a dig at Americans, it is rather an attempt to better understand the nature of the racism you have highlighted. But what you have highlighted is an entirely AMERICAN construction - made in America by Americans, for Americans. They were of that place and were not necessarily globally held negative views of Asian men. But when put them into the context of the era from which they came (Negros for example couldn't even eat at the same restaurants as whites) it just goes to show you how racist the United States and its citizens were. (Still are?) And ironically given these negative views, it has been Asian nations that have inflicted the most profound and damaging military defeats upon the United States. A cost of ignorance?

The three most common Asian stereotypes we have in New Zealand are 1. Bad drivers, 2. small cocks, 3. nerds who always come top in class.

[PeterUK]

Prejudice is, at root, a great emotional contracting in upon oneself, in which messy, complicated reality is replaced with reassuring simplicities. We're all guilty of it at times. On this board it often takes the form of calling all Thai barboys greedy, dishonest, thieving etc. Such comments bear so little relation to my experience of barboys over the years that I wonder why people make them, but of course the sex worker/client relationship is a potent one with all sorts of resentments built into it, on both sides, and no doubt there are many barboys who condemn us equally sweepingly as rude, smelly, stingy etc. In either case, it represents a great failure of the individual at all levels of his being and I for one would not want to go around advertising the fact.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

and I hear this daily from Mrs O'Booze: "small, sneaky, and threatening... spineless, emasculated wimp(s)"

as for this : "The only prejudice I did not see listed was the concept that Asians drive aggessively."..have you ever driven in Australia ?..the most agressive drivers in the world. Even my German friend who travels the autobahns won't take them on.

Haaa.. you guys are so funny. Someone should do a list of stereotypes we have about Caucasian men. :)

In fact. Let me do one.

1. White guys are horse hung.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/567/sd614623sx6.jpg

2. White guys are masculine tops who will make your hole weak.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7445/sd363200hp9.jpg

3. White guys are rich walking ATM machines.
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/-/2/saddam_homeless.jpg

4. White guys are faithless heartbreakers who uses innocent asians for sex
http://images.broadwayworld.com/columnpic/mbuttersf3.jpg

5. White guys are smart superior people who are destined to rule the world
http://distantocean.com/images/bush-turkey-mad.jpg

http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070813/070813_huckabee_hmed_8a.h2.jpg

PS. I love white guys. Some of my best friends are white. I'm seeing a donkey hung masculine rich faithful smart superior white man who rules my world. Please just make sure you wash before having a dick up your arse.

You've mised one.

Three weeks ago, in Vancouver, a transgendered giant told me she thought that whilst she thought Asian people were bright they lacked the creativity of caucasians. I hadn't heard that comfort blanket since Sony bought CBS. I was pleased to tell her that ultimately all stereotyping only really harms those who self-delude with stereotypes.

Three weeks ago, in Vancouver, a transgendered giant told me she thought that whilst she thought Asian people were bright they lacked the creativity of caucasians.Thanks for the update on poster Aunty's movements - a transgendered giant in Vancouver, eh? Tourette's views on Asians are well known, of course, from this post on http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... 10909.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-pattaya-an-alternate-view-t10909.html) reproduced below

You know on one level what this guy had to say is correct. But the strident voice of revulsion he uses to say it reveals the heart of ignorance and bigotry. I don't know what it is with young Asian guys. But this whole Asian stance of controlling ones interpersonal world by putting the blinkers on and seeing only what one wants to see and the rest (if acknowledged at all) is filtered through a distancing matrix of protecting prejudice is a total fucking bore. No wonder Asian societies don't invent anything (or win Noble prizes), they're too fucking xenophobic to think outside the square

I can just see it in the years to come. Our correspondent in his late 50s lounging furtively in a beach chair (even in his 50s, as a Gay Asian man he's still careful not to be too visible) on Jomtein Beach. Hair thinned, belly has expanded. in fact he's one of those chubby little fleshy pale yellowish "Asians" who's overdone the ginseng and tiger penis soup (it's needed, so he believes, for his dribbly little member) complaining bitterly about the Farang's lowering the tone of his favourite place and nicking all his offs and upping their price - without so much as a backward glance to his correspondence of 30 years earlier.
For someone who claims to be a scientist ( http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... .php?e=338 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=338) ), it's interesting to see Aunty's reference to the "Noble" Prize, although Aunty is herself an IgNobel Prize winner - http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... .php?e=313 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=313)

[Aunty]

Nice to see, Beryl, that you are carefully keeping and cataloging my every utterance on Sawatdee. You pathetically obsessed old man.

... is my stalker following me around again?

righto. im back. i know that in my previous post, i said that i will never post another message here again. well i take that back. i just cant resist. do forgive me.

in case uve forgotten, im the asian guy whom aunty berated in the cut and paste thingy homintern dug up and displayed here. swell! click on that link and u will notice that i had contributed, shall we say, an eloquent and rather informative rebut to aunty's factual inaccuracies.

anyway, now that im already here, i shall add another asian stereotype that isnt necessarily true:

ALL asians respect their elders.

WRONG!

there are some asians who only respect older people who are deserving.

and like topchinese, im also seeing a gorgeous, white man who's around my age, (in his early 30s) and is my equal in every way.

typical ricequeens, unfortunately, think im a nightmare but i dont care.

anywho, fortunately (unfortunately?) for me, i belong to one of the typical stereotypes, ( no i dont have a tiny dick. and im definitely am not a nerd. tsk.)

i always came up tops in class when i was in university in the states. have a gpa on 3.98 and am proud of it, thank you very much. *grin*

in case uve forgotten, im the asian guy whom aunty berated in the cut and paste thingy homintern dug up and displayed here.Poor old Tourette - the {Search} function will trip up the inconsistent every time

[Aunty]

righto. im back. i know that in my previous post, i said that i will never post another message here again. well i take that back. i just cant resist. do forgive me.

in case uve forgotten, im the asian guy whom aunty berated in the cut and paste thingy homintern dug up and displayed here. swell! click on that link and u will notice that i had contributed, shall we say, an eloquent and rather informative rebut to aunty's factual inaccuracies.

anyway, now that im already here, i shall add another asian stereotype that isnt necessarily true:

ALL asians respect their elders.

WRONG!

there are some asians who only respect older people who are deserving.

and like topchinese, im also seeing a gorgeous, white man who's around my age, (in his early 30s) and is my equal in every way.

typical ricequeens, unfortunately, think im a nightmare but i dont care.

anywho, fortunately (unfortunately?) for me, i belong to one of the typical stereotypes, ( no i dont have a tiny dick. and im definitely am not a nerd. tsk.)

i always came up tops in class when i was in university in the states. have a gpa on 3.98 and am proud of it, thank you very much. *grin*

It may be informative then, bratt, (good name by-the-way) for me to re post your original comments here, that I was responding to in the post that beryl refers to (out of context by the way, typical of him). But then we know that Beryl is a sad and lonely old man who corrupts others views to compensate for his profound sense of inferiority. Perhaps, bratt, beryl was the horrid fat white old thing that come up to you in Pattaya and tried it on?

Bratt's original post:


went to pattaya once and hated every minute of that cesspit. HATE HATE HATE PATTAYA.

i read that it's a gay beach resort so i thought that it will be like an asian ibitza/mykonos . boy! i went there alone to check it out and was sadly mistaken.

the place is like one huge fucking whorehouse. seriously. horrible beaches, jomtien is the pits.ugly sights. ugh.

visited the bars and i was the only asian guy below 30 who was not a gogoboy. and i was also mistaken for a freelancer. this horrid old thing came up to me and asked me how much i cost. was mortified.

there 's nothing there but gogobars and hostbars patronised by fat old hideous farang men looking for gogoboys to spend the night with. they were ugly. how ugly? UGGLLYYY. almost conjunctivitis inducing. and fat! how fat? FFFAAATTTTTT!

it must be quite sad to buy sex when u can get it for free. but im sure them farang guys must have felt like kings there. but hey if money can buy love, then they must be happy!

ive travelled to many places and i usually see some redeeming factor about every place that ive visited. however, i can say nothing nice about pattaya. avoid.

it had got to be the saddest place on earth. ugh.

Maybe some of you disgusting fat old white people who live in or visit Pattaya have a comment or two about why it is you are all so vile and horrid? Bratt would like to know.

[bucknaway]

The Asians I grew up with..... Well, they were slim, sexy and you would be a fool to take their kindness for weakness.

#1
Bruce Lee... The strong silent type. As kids... We all wanted to be Bruce Lee!

http://i16.tinypic.com/6t60hld.jpg

#2

Russell Wong from the TV show Vanishing Son. In this series he was smart, strong, trustworthy and would turn the other cheek until you threatened an innocent person.....

http://i12.tinypic.com/6u9nvpj.jpg

#3
Can't leave out Sulu from Star Trek! I had the biggest crush on him! (He just came out of the closet!)

http://i7.tinypic.com/6z55tuu.jpg

#4
Susumu Kurobe was the star of Ultaman and he played Hyata. Even as a child I had a tingling in my loins when I watched this show!


http://i3.tinypic.com/87cqohl.jpg http://i15.tinypic.com/6pyauqa.jpg


#5
Charlie Chan and his Number One Son. When we were kids we use to love to play Charlie Chan and Number One Son. We would argue about who gets to be Number One Son!

At the time, no one on TV was as smart and logical as Mr. Chan and his studious son who wanted to be just like his dad.

http://i7.tinypic.com/81tudue.jpg

#6
Garrett Wang who played Harry Kim on Star Trek Voyager... I still have a crush on him today!

http://i9.tinypic.com/8fmiwwj.jpg


I guess that sometimes we all perceive things differently. Just as one of us may look at a man and see him as weak and meek. Another of us may see him as a man who is very secure who does not need to wear his balls on the outside of his pants to prove his machismo.

I wish Black Americans had it as good as the Asians had it on American TV..... The Black-face..... The roles as meek and frightened maids and butlers who, once they were behind closed doors and away from the masters of the house, would break into soft shoe or a tap dance with big tooth grins while singing as others around would degrade each other with comic insults as the BIG fat unattractive maid would warn them they best not be doing that....

i stand by what i saw and experienced. will not take back anything i said in my post on pattaya.

but i didnt say all the guys who live and visit pattaya are old, vile and disgusting. the guys I SAW, the guys who groped me, and the guys who tried to proposition me during my visit to pattaya were fat, old, ugly and were not very pleasing to the eyes at all. its not the same. read again.

why, aunty, are u afraid to take me on alone, an asian guy young enough to be son and must rally your friends and ilk over in a sad attempt to bring me down?

yes, im a brat and a brat i shall be.

i repeat, my posts are based on my personal observation and the stuff i wrote on nobel prize, etc are based on facts.

as you often pride yourself as being a "learned" man, it surprises me that it appears you tend to base your conclusions on assumptions, speculation and pure fabrication.

yes, this asian guy fights back. nothing meek and submissive here. there goes another stereotype out the door.

is it then a possible bruise to your ego , aunty, that a southeast asian guy (from your posts, it appears that you do not think too highly of asians, but i respect that, everybody is entitled to opinions) dares to challenge you and take you on in your own language?

have got nothing against older people. some of my dearest friends are older caucasian men of a certain persuasian, my "aunts", i call them.

but factual inaccuracies - i simply cannot tolerate.

its good to know that the sight of asian men onscreen sets your loins on fire. that's always good. :)

but hollywood's portrayal of asians on the big screen and on the tube can sometimes verge on to being rather offensive, especially so in the past.

for one, i do believe that many asians are quite insulted by charlie chan despite the fact that he is the hero. perhaps he is what one considers an asian stereotype and i do admit that this is mainly due to his "exotic" speech pattern.

and in the course of my research when i was at school, i stumbled across this thing called the "yellowface"- which is akin to the african-american blackface. and this too has raised the ire of quite a few asians. think fu manchu, and that flick katherine hepburn acted in where she played an asian woman with slitty eyes.

on your last point, tho buck my man, i bed to differ. african americans have it so much better than asians in the western media. tho admittedly there were the blaxploitation flicks in the 70s like foxy brown and blakula, (and we asians had fu manchu and the flower drum song in the past.) but i digrees.

look to the cinemas and the small screen now. african american actors like denzel, halle, samuel, jamie, have all reached their star status and have taken on roles that used to be played mainly by caucasian members of the guild. however, to this day, their asian counterparts are still lagging far behind.

while african americans are now playing badass action heros, lawyers, etc. except for a very few flicks, asians are still being typecast as martial arts experts (think jackie chan), nerds (that bloke in heros), not so innocent exotic temptresses (that girl in desperate housewives) and others. :)

a penny for your thoughts, buckster? :)

[bucknaway]

I agree with a lot of what you have said. I have a few friends (Asian friends) who expressed their embarrassment when William hung would sing "She Bang" telling me that they did not like the stereotype he was creating. I think I cringe the same way when I see Reverand Jackson or Al Sharpton speak.

A lot of the things that We find offensive, others seem to have a fondness for. In Mexico they have a cartoon of Memin Pinguin that they turned into a stamp. To me and almost all who suffered from such racist and hateful cartoons produced here in the USA protested the cartoon and stamp, Mexico still has the cartoon and stamp.... They see nothing wrong with it.

As far as the Asian representation in todays media.... Well I think that has a lot to do with the black community demanding change and for the most part that change has been slow in coming but it is very noticeable change from what it once was. Still there is a long way to go.... I don't know what to say about the music video industry.... All i know is that when I come to Thailand, many of my Thai friends tell me with pride that they like rap and P-diddy and others... I say nothing because I don't like rap or P-diddy but I know it is their way of telling me to relax.. They like me.. Anyway... I am sure that if the growing USA Asian population were to start a civil rights protest on movie studios and producers of TV stations than things would begin to slowly change.

As far as the old Farang and the young Thai guys...... It is the same here in the USA with young black guys and their Older white Lovers. Almost all the relationships were the same. The Farang was in charge of the relationship with all the money and the power and his boyfriend tended to be with him for the money and the ease of life. I think they both knew it was only a temporary relationship. If a man of 45 were to wed a 18yo girl, I doubt that he is looking for an equal in their relationship and she would only have as much power in the relationship as her 45yo husband would allow. All her power would be imaginary. I think the same holds true for us in the gay community. I am sure there are some May/December relationships that have endured over time but they are not the norm.

I was talking to a friend of mine about this thread and your 2nd reply... I could identify with it and was happy no one posted pictures of OLD DAY NEGROS with captions.

I am sure this thread was created with the best intentions but may not be appreciated by any of our Asian board members....

Off topic... I was at a party with some of my Latin friends and made the mistake of telling a guy that I don't speak spanish. A guy near us who was listening to our conversation spoke up.. "Spanish?!? No one here is Spanish!" I had to do some fancy footwork to eat them words!....

[Aunty]

i stand by what i saw and experienced. will not take back anything i said in my post on pattaya.

but i didnt say all the guys who live and visit pattaya are old, vile and disgusting. the guys I SAW, the guys who groped me, and the guys who tried to proposition me during my visit to pattaya were fat, old, ugly and were not very pleasing to the eyes at all. its not the same. read again.

why, aunty, are u afraid to take me on alone, an asian guy young enough to be son and must rally your friends and ilk over in a sad attempt to bring me down?

yes, im a brat and a brat i shall be.

i repeat, my posts are based on my personal observation and the stuff i wrote on nobel prize, etc are based on facts.

as you often pride yourself as being a "learned" man, it surprises me that it appears you tend to base your conclusions on assumptions, speculation and pure fabrication.

yes, this asian guy fights back. nothing meek and submissive here. there goes another stereotype out the door.

is it then a possible bruise to your ego , aunty, that a southeast asian guy (from your posts, it appears that you do not think too highly of asians, but i respect that, everybody is entitled to opinions) dares to challenge you and take you on in your own language?

have got nothing against older people. some of my dearest friends are older caucasian men of a certain persuasian, my "aunts", i call them.

but factual inaccuracies - i simply cannot tolerate.

My word, you certainly have a very high opinion of yourself, don't you?

there 's nothing there but gogobars and hostbars patronised by fat old hideous farang men looking for gogoboys to spend the night with. they were ugly. how ugly? UGGLLYYY. almost conjunctivitis inducing. and fat! how fat? FFFAAATTTTTT!

Your blatantly racist and ageist remark above not only casts outrageously false aspersions on every white man from this board who goes to the gogo bars in Pattaya, it also tells us quite clearly what sort of person you are. Trash. You owe every man here an apology. But uptight little Chinese pricks like you never have the class to give one.

[Brad the Impala]

They're fine to drool over, these asian guys, but it just seems damn uppity when they have an opinion of their own, right Aunty?

They're fine to drool over, these asian guys, but it just seems damn uppity when they have an opinion of their own, right Aunty?

:rolling:

They're fine to drool over, these asian guys, but it just seems damn uppity when they have an opinion of their own, right Aunty?I recall Aunty's housemaster drawing me aside towards the end of his schooldays and confiding that casting him as Lady Bracknell in the school production of The Importance of Being Earnest had been a mistake. "Never got over it," he said with a sigh. "I fear the Lady Bracknell complex will be with him until his dying day." How right he was

[PeterUK]

I recall Aunty's housemaster drawing me aside towards the end of his schooldays and confiding that casting him as Lady Bracknell in the school production of The Importance of Being Earnest had been a mistake. "Never got over it," he said with a sigh. "I fear the Lady Bracknell complex will be with him until his dying day." How right he was

That explains a lot. Aunty and I were staying at the same Bangkok hotel (not together) during the last heavy floods and when a staff member asked Aunty if he would mind helping to lift one of the sandbags intended to protect the building Aunty gave him a disdainful look and said, 'A sandbag?'

so, my friends. a white guy can be uppity but an asian guy cant have attitude. such a victorian mindset . makes the mind reel sometimes.

yes. ive got a very high opinion of myself. dont we all? which is ironic that you dont seem to like that quality in others. this is especially since u always tell the others on this board how intelligent and learned you are. SO! yes, i hold a very high opinion of myself. and if u dont like it, it's your problem, not mine.

and ive told u time and again. i am not chinese. ive been mistaken as a thai gogoboy many many times when i was in pattaya. and when i was in bkk, once i was stopped from entering my own hotel room in a 5 star hotel after a night out.(i kicked up a stink and got an upgrade) but thats another story.

so that will lead you to immediately get it that 1. i have tanned skin 2. im not very big sized. muscly, yes. but not very tall. barely 5 feet 7. now, dun get me wrong, ive got nothing against prostitution, but i DO mind when people treat me and think im a whore.

im not racist, im not ageist. if you had taken the time to read my post, u will have known otherwise. some posters from other boards and maybe one of two here know me have corresponded with me. some are white but nearly all are older. but they are intelligent, and are great company.

while i do have friends of all races and age, have you, aunty any real friends who are asians and are younger and arent the "commercial" types?

and unlike u aunty, i will never reduce myself to shameless namecalling ie calling another person trash, prick, etc. as what i said, u may be older but that doesnt mean i have to respect you cos u have shown no redeeming qualities whatsoever that garners a smidgen of my respect.

there is not a need, aunty, to get your knickers in a twist and reduce yourself to slanderous namecalling. we can discuss everything here like civilised adults. but if you prefer to thresh it out like a namecalling schoolgirl from malory towers, then so be it . but i will continue to keep a level head like a civilised adult.

i owe nobody anything. if u think im uppity, its your problem, not mine. if u think i have attitude, good cos yes, asian guys can have attitude, lots of it.

i have opinions. and if u dont like my opinions, you are entitled to dislike them. but if you still dont like the way i see things, then tough.

.

and unlike u aunty, i will never reduce myself to shameless namecalling ie calling another person trash, prick, etc. as what i said, u may be older but that doesnt mean i have to respect you cos u have shown no redeeming qualities whatsoever that garners a smidgen of my respect.

there is not a need, aunty, to get your knickers in a twist and reduce yourself to slanderous namecalling. we can discuss everything here like civilised adults. but if you prefer to thresh it out like a namecalling schoolgirl from malory towers, then so be it ...With a name like Tourette Higgs, I'm afraid that's all Aunty is capable of

[bucknaway]

Yes he makes me cringe when he speaks... Yes he has done good in the community... But he has done better for himself and his family. He and his children are all very wealthy through some shady deals..... I wish I could get a coke distributorship as cheaply as his sons got theirs......

Sorry is my feelings pissed you off... They won't change anytime soon... Not by you or anyone else... It is up to the Reverend Jackson to change my opinion.

Take care my friend.


I really have to throw an elbow or two here...

[quote]Bucknaway said: I think I cringe the same way when I see Reverand Jackson or Al Sharpton speak.
First off, Bucknaway, Rev. Jackson (through Rainbow/Push) and Rev. Sharpton (through National Action Network) have spent their lives working for social justice - something you have not done - and perhaps when you stop and think about what they have done, however imperfectly, you might stop cringing and come to your senses.

Your life is better because of the civil rights movement they helped create. Cringe about that, schmuck.

Further, perhaps you might do penance for your foolish off-the-cuff remark by doing something that benefits someone other than yourself.


Bucknaway said:I am sure this thread was created with the best intentions but may not be appreciated by any of our Asian board members....
There is still a profound reluctance to openly discuss prejudice as if mentioning it will bring about it's reality. Unfortunately, it does exist and not talking about it will not make it go away.

If there is not a willingness to bring this "dirty secret" out from under a rock and frankly address it, nothing will change.

Yes, prejudice exists, yes, it is uncomfortable and yes, prejudice has sharp edges.

But it exists and it won't go away unless we talk about what it is and what it means and see it for what it is.

http://www.grokdotcom.com/wp-content/uploads/jeff/bridgeout.jpg[/quote:2o3rmew4]

[Marsilius]

Sorry to disabuse you, Bucknaway, but the fifth "Asian" that you say you grew up with, Charlie Chan, was, as in the picture you've posted, played by a Swede - of all races! - named Warner Oland. It's amazing what make-up can do... [Later movie Charlie Chans Sydney Toler and Roland Winters made rather less convincing-looking "Asians".]

You're on sounder ground, though, with the genuinely dishy Number One Son, actor Keye Luke - who, even if he grew up in the USA had at least been born in Canton, China.

For completeness's sake, Number Two Son was played by the rather more severe-looking Victor Sen Young (born in the USA, though of Chinese-American descent). Benson Fong (my favourite but also US born) was Number Three Son Tommy Chan, the most hip of Charlie's brood. Finally, the rather more intellectual Number Four Son was portrayed by Keye Luke's real-life brother Edwin Luke.

[Aunty]

Yes, prejudice exists, yes, it is uncomfortable and yes, prejudice has sharp edges.

But it exists and it won't go away unless we talk about what it is and what it means and see it for what it is.


I agree with you entirely, Rainwalker, and that is why I welcomed your post. It's just a pity that too many other contributors to this thread either don't get it, or don't care!

[bing]

I really liked your run down of Charlie's Kids. You must be a really movieophile, or a trivia buff. I just know I used the like the Charlie Chan movies. About two weeks ago I was in a conversation about missing Co-ed in Aruba of a year ago. I mentioned that Charlie Chan probably could have found her. The response was, " Who is Charlie Chan."
Ah well, I don't mind being dated.

[bucknaway]

Prejudice and Race will always be a touchy subject. A while back there was much debate on how a board member used the "N" word... Which is considered insulting no matter how it is used... And a big racial uproar began to unfold. One member here even became so upset that he called me a "N" word on the forum.

Some members left the board shortly after that furor.

Race will always be a touchy matter... Wars were fought over it. People are denied rights because of it... Others feel superior because of their race.

So when you create an unflattering post that outlines the negative images of a certain race and add pictures to illustrate it, you can be sure it will rub many of that race the wrong way.





Yes, prejudice exists, yes, it is uncomfortable and yes, prejudice has sharp edges.

But it exists and it won't go away unless we talk about what it is and what it means and see it for what it is.


I agree with you entirely, Rainwalker, and that is why I welcomed your post. It's just a pity that too many other contributors to this thread either don't get it, or don't care!

... has been preserved for posterity in her Blog - Aunty's Mensa Moments - http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... .php?e=371 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=371)

George must be very proud of having such a sterling friend - and one so keen on Pattaya, its bars and their patrons. I thought (hoped) I might offend a few people by stating that only trash go to Pattaya, but dear Tourette has exceeded my feeble efforts

[bucknaway]

I am not even going to read your note, just go fuck yourself........

[Aunty]

One thing I would be interested to know, bucknaway, and that is how do you see Barack Obama? Do you see him as a 'black man' running for the presidency similar to Jesse Jackson , or do you see him as just another Democrat seeking his party's nomination to run for office? And in a broader context, how do you friends, family and co-workers etc see him? It's a bit hard to tell from this distance, but is his race an issue in this election, and will it be? My view is that when it isn't, America will have come a long way from its racist past.

[bucknaway]

I don't think anyone can look at Barak Obama and ignore that he is a Black man running for President. Many of my friends will vote for him simply because he is black and others will vote for him simply because he is a Democrat. You will also find many that wont vote for him thinking he is being controlled by the "The White Man." But... With his genuine momentum coming out of the caucus, many of my co-workers (also black) who were at one point skeptical of his run now feel that he may truly stand a good chance of winning.

I first saw Barak as a Black man running for President but now I look at him as just another democrat.... Well... Not just another democrat but a different kind of democrat. I see him as a guy with fresh ideas who is not running for office to gain power and to that extent I would be willing to vote for him myself if the vote were held today, but I have a problem with him not saying the Pledge to the flag, Not putting his hand over his heart during the National Anthem and refusing to wear the Flag Pin on his lapel.

But it is not lost on anyone that Obama is a black man.... Everyone is just pretending not to notice.

Well that is my take on it based on lunchroom conversations, message board chats and our local media.

[catawampuscat]

We are living in the age of the "Yellow Menace" and China will be used as the "whipping boy" or excuse for the problems,
especially economic ones in the West.
The incredible shrinking US dollar is one example and the strong Chinese currency is blamed in part for the weak US dollar.
There is great fear of the "sleeping giant" and racism will continue, as it helps offset the poor leadership of US politicians.

Last century, the Japanese were going to buy the USA, lock stock and barrel.. They bought some well known places and
companies, high priced oil paintings etc., and the fear was that they would simply buy everything.
This proved unfounded and many of the purchases turned out to be way over priced and losing propositions for the Japanese.
Racism and Fear go hand in hand and we will see much more anti-Asian prejudice in the future, especially directed towards the
Chinese.

Rich Arabs buying up everything also stirs the kettle of hatred and fear and throw in some religious fanatics who know the power of
fear and racism and nationalism continue their merry march to war and violence..

White gay men who like Asian men are called "rice queens" in the West and looked down on by many. There are also words for white men
who like black men and for those who like the obese. All are considered negative by the majority who favour "white bread".
I attribute these prejudices to ignorance and avoid those denigrate Asians or Blacks, as inferior to Whites.

It is comical when aged obese white men make statements against glorious young men of colour and denounce them as unsuitable for
intimate encounters. There is nothing as ugly as hate and ignorance and racism and nationalism are its two best friends... :cat:

[francois]

. I see him as a guy with fresh ideas who is not running for office to gain power and to that extent I would be willing to vote for him myself if the vote were held today, but I have a problem with him not saying the Pledge to the flag, Not putting his hand over his heart during the National Anthem and refusing to wear the Flag Pin on his lapel.
.

I knew he does not wear a Flap Pin but was unaware of not saying the Pledge and not covering his heart during the Anthem.
Bravo for him! Real patriots don't have to wear their patriotism on their sleeve. Bucknaway you just decided my vote in his favor.

Francois

[bbf-old]

bucknaway's previous posts identify him as a real Republican. Therefore he would love to perpetuate any rumors against Senator Obama. Isn't he the member of Congress who took his oath using a Koran??? No, he did not!!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Bucky, please find better reasons for rejecting a candidate than not wearing a flag pin - that only came into fashion after 9-11 when Bozo and Darth got their big pins... Thanks for your comments francois - spot on!

[thaiworthy-old]

bucknaway's previous posts identify him as a real Republican. Therefore he would love to perpetuate any rumors against Senator Obama. Isn't he the member of Congress who took his oath using a Koran??? No, he did not!!

Bucky, please find better reasons for rejecting a candidate than not wearing a flag pin - that only came into fashion after 9-11 when Bozo and Darth got their big pins... Thanks for your comments francois - spot on!

Sorry, I'm with Bucky on this one. Forget the flag pin. So what if it sprouted from 9/11? That doesn't excuse him from not reciting the Pledge. This is Patriotism in all its aspects. As an ostensibly viable candidate, this tarnishes his image. These are all symbols of one's allegiance to one's country. Not spot on. Horrifically spot off.

This is Patriotism in all its aspects
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel

I found it very hard to believe that a serious contender for POTUS would refuse to recite the pledge. So after a simple Google I found this link which seems to debunk all the allegations made by Bucky. Apparently this is all part of some chain email making the rounds to caste dispersion on the man. Certainly if I could find this, one wonders why Bucky couldn't do the same? It took all of about 15 seconds.

thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/barack-obama-refused-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance-youve-been-played-for-a-daggone-fool/ (http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/barack-obama-refused-to-say-the-pledge-of-allegiance-youve-been-played-for-a-daggone-fool/)

Re Thaiworthy's comment, I ran across this posting on a blog site which I think sums up patriotism.

"The blind deference to symbolism is what is truly discouraging and actually quite a threat to the continuance of a free society. We show our commitments to a тАЬunitedтАЭ country by living the principles of our Constitution which guarantees each and every person (including elected officials) the right to dissent. We demonstrate our commitment to these principles by acting and expressing ourselves as we see fit so long as it does not harm others or infringe upon their rights. The symbols are superficial only and, for good reason, have no codified protection (check the Constitution to see if you find anything even mentioning the flag). The principles behind the Constitution are what matter, and in this case Obama is a sterling example of them (again, assuming this is not some internet distortion). When you place the symbols over the principles you follow a path that quickly leads to the erosions of freedom."

[thaiworthy-old]

Re Thaiworthy's comment, I ran across this posting on a blog site which I think sums up patriotism.

"The blind deference to symbolism is what is truly discouraging and actually quite a threat to the continuance of a free society. We show our commitments to a тАЬunitedтАЭ country by living the principles of our Constitution which guarantees each and every person (including elected officials) the right to dissent. We demonstrate our commitment to these principles by acting and expressing ourselves as we see fit so long as it does not harm others or infringe upon their rights. The symbols are superficial only and, for good reason, have no codified protection (check the Constitution to see if you find anything even mentioning the flag). The principles behind the Constitution are what matter, and in this case Obama is a sterling example of them (again, assuming this is not some internet distortion). When you place the symbols over the principles you follow a path that quickly leads to the erosions of freedom."

So you found a blogger who agrees with you. Good for you. From my point-of-view, this is a woefully self-centered point-of-view. Assuming the Obama allegation is true, which has always been questionable, I can only say this: A country isn't a rock, its flag is not a piece of cloth, it's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult. This is represented by symbols and in this day and age are important to people to recognize and to renew their faith in beliefs. The argument then, is how important, and I think that differs from person to person. To you, it is not important at all. To me, it is. It is a personal choice. If it is superficial, then it is superficial only for you. You cannot dictate to me or to anyone how I should regard symbols. Try telling that to a soldier with a medal for a heroic act. And if you want to talk about the principles in the Constitution, then my statements here are protected by them.

For many years the Catholic Church displayed the American flag on its altar. Then one day it was removed from most of the Churches. After 9/11, it came back again. Then gone again as of late. So symbols come and go, but you cannot take away my right to honor them.

Here then, is a token of one of my beloved symbols. I hope, by the grace of God, you are not offended by it!

[bucknaway]

I did a quick web search and found this. This should help some.

http://newsbusters.org/static/2007/10/2007-10-01Time-Obama3.jpg

They have the video of him here...

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Obama_doe ... _1022.html (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Obama_doesnt_put_hand_over_heart_1022.html)

Here is another link.... If you can't see the video.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=81ybztt&s=1

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-f ... msm-notice (http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/20/obama-no-hand-heart-pledge-either-will-msm-notice)

[Geezer]

My favorite flag photo.

And it's easy enough to find photos of Obama with his hand on his heart too.

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/11/01/PH2007110101367.jpg]

blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/obama_nabbed_by_the_patriotic.html (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/obama_nabbed_by_the_patriotic.html)

Bucky and Thaiworthy you are of course free to believe what you like, but if you are choosing your candidates based solely on whether they wear a lapel pin or put their hand over their heart during the national anthem that does suggest a certain degree of shallowness.

Point #1 of the 14 points illustrating/indicating Fascism:

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism.

www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm (http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm)[/quote]

[thaiworthy-old]

And it's easy enough to find photos of Obama with his hand on his heart too.

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/11/01/PH2007110101367.jpg]

blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/obama_nabbed_by_the_patriotic.html (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/11/obama_nabbed_by_the_patriotic.html)

Bucky and Thaiworthy you are of course free to believe what you like, but if you are choosing your candidates based solely on whether they wear a lapel pin or put their hand over their heart during the national anthem that does suggest a certain degree of shallowness.

Point #1 of the 14 points illustrating/indicating Fascism:

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism.

www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm (http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm)[/quote]

Personally, I wouldn't judge a candidate by this absence of fervor. I am not a Republican. But there are many people who are and would use this as a reason not to vote for him. Shallow or not, it is their right. This is just part of the mudslinging that typically resonates in an election year. Some can recognize that, some cannot.

Who and why I choose a candidate is also none of your goddamn business!

And I don't need a lecture from you about Nationalism. My argument was about symbols in America. Catchy slogans, pride in the military and demands for unity are related, but I am not going to entertain you with a lengthy debate about those. There are good symbols and bad symbols. And I am surprised you did not bring up the swastika. You are trying to generalize about Nationalism as a whole. Suffice it to say that there are good and bad catchy slogans, good and bad pride in the military, good and bad demands for unity. There are many other contributing factors that bring ill fortune to one's country. To sum it up in a nugget of impending doom because these conditions exist all at once is too simplistic. History does repeat itself, but the warning signs go far beyond that of which you state.

Enough said. This thread is way off topic. Either lock it, or get back on track.

On the one hand you say "Personally, I wouldn't judge a candidate by this absence of fervor."

And yet condemn him with "That doesn't excuse him from not reciting the Pledge." Which by the way was a total fabrication.

Wearing a pin, saluting the flag or reciting the pledge is something any fool can do and is no more indicative of patriotism than passing gas. Instead of spending your next holiday whoring in Thailand, volunteer at a VA hospital and then your blather might actually mean something.

[thaiworthy-old]

On the one hand you say "Personally, I wouldn't judge a candidate by this absence of fervor."

And yet condemn him with "That doesn't excuse him from not reciting the Pledge." Which by the way was a total fabrication.

Wearing a pin, saluting the flag or reciting the pledge is something any fool can do and is no more indicative of patriotism than passing gas. Instead of spending your next holiday whoring in Thailand, volunteer at a VA hospital and then your blather might actually mean something.

I haven't condemned anyone. You have. You have made a judgement about why a person votes by saying he would use this as his only reason to vote against Obama. By your reasoning, the fact that Francois would use this to vote IN FAVOR of Obama is then also shallow. Are you willing to call Francois shallow as well?

Your remarks are now nonsensical and desperate. I am sorry you have stooped this low to rally your cry. And I have done my share of volunteering. For your information, I am a magician, and I perform magic at children's hospitals for free.

Wanna go around again?

Not everyone here gives a damn.
Stick to the topic, peeps... I wanna hear more about what these funny white geezers think about chinks.

I wanna hear more about what these funny white geezers think about chinks.Or indeed, why Aunty thinks that my (alleged) wanting to be more like Aunty and George is a sign of my insanity. Go and work that one out!

What I want to know is - was the person murdering the US national anthem on that video arrested for treason. Is it any wonder that nice young man didn't recognize what was being played?