US Customs in Seattle

I just returned from BKK to US and entered thru Seattle.

After telling them I visited Payatta my hand carry and luggage was thoroughly checked looking for pirated CD's or at least any with Porn. They told me they were after underage porn.

After seeing innocent magazine like Spice or a gay hotel brochure my computer was thoroughly checked and all of my saved pictures were reviewed. My camera was dilligently inspected and luggage reinspected looking for flash card or photo memory cards. They found nothing as none existed. Twenty Questions became Two Hundred and Twenty wanting to know where I stayed in Thailand etc etc and then questions about my work and many others that should have been none of their business. Notes were being taken and this took more time. All of this in a secure area.

Very distressing hour or more while computer was searched. After a long flight this is not a happy way to enter your country.

My advice, before leaving go thru your suitcase assuming they will be and purge anything you don't want to share with the Feds.

I learned a long time ago never to carry anything that is not aboslutley necessary with you. Never volunter information. I no longer carry cameras computers or video cams. I do not carry address or keep cell phone numbers (I will email them to my home computer to be ther when i get home). Not that I have anything to hide but I hate the invasion of privacy. Its just simply none of their business.

[fedssocr]

why did you tell them you had been in Pattaya? Did they specifically ask?

My return to DC was maddening, not because of any scrutiny, but because on arrival there was only 1 or 2 agents working at passport control. So hundreds of us stood in line forever. After about 35 minutes a bunch more came on duty and the line went relatively quickly for US passport holders as they were trying to clear the line out, but the foreigners were still not moving. Welcome to America! I had visited Thailand, Cambodia, and Japan and faced no real questioning at all. I was actually more thoroughly inspected by Japanese customs who made me open my bag full of (mostly) dirty clothes. I think he was looking for drugs. Back at Dulles I was way over my customs exemption but when I got to the customs agent he just asked if I had any agricultural products (no) and sent me on my way without any questions about having been in Thailand or Cambodia.

[daa raa]

I had a similar experience in Seattle about a year ago. They took my camera and checked it out while another agent went through all my bags. I have been to Thailand at least 4 times since then and have had not other incidents like this, but I have not returned via Seattle. I will not use Seattle as a connecting point again.

[Bob]

Having come 4-5 times through Detroit and a dozen times through Los Angeles, I've never had a problem. I always carry my camera and the last two times I also have my laptop and twice this year I got no more than a "wecome home" from the customs/immigration folks. Probably hit or miss but I've never been given the second or third degree.
Then again, there are no inappropriate images that I'm carrying nor would I be fool enough to try that.

[francois]

Having come 4-5 times through Detroit and a dozen times through Los Angeles, I've never had a problem.


Never say never! Like lightning they can strike at any time, anywhere.
Best advice is not to carry anything that might make Customs search further. Often I send photos or CDs with photos to my home address rather than carry them. Not sure if that would work with a camera card.

The first agent (where citizens line up) ask where I had been in Thailand and I answered 'Bangkok'.
He immediately shot back with the question 'did you go to Pattaya?'
Defensively, I said yes. He quickly marked my card and dismissed me to luggage area. Then going thru the last screening I was whisked away to a secure area where two officers started the Two Hundred and Twenty questions.

The sighting of a Pattaya hotel/sauna advertisement where I stayed showed two boys setting together with only towels around them and a Spice magazine made it obvious I was gay. When one was examining the brochure I quickly stated it was not against the US law to be gay. His answer was no, were looking for (underage) porno.

Notes were being made to direct questions: what hotels did I stay in, who is running my business while I am out of country, etc.

I tried not to volunteer info, but the questions were coming pretty fast. I'm not a choir boy, but I have NEVER been arrested in my 60 plus years. Twenty year career in management, now a businessman and active community leader. My closet door only gets open when out of country or with friends. So, why me? This was not random and I believe its targeted to guys traveling alone to Thailand.

By posting this I hope to save others going thru SEA the time consuming harassment and emphasize the point that nothing in your computer or on your digital cards are safe. My suitcase was totally examined looking for anything sewn into the lining or secret pockets. I was not strip searched, but my carry on bag was where they found the brochure stuck inside my papers with the hotel invoice etc. And after multiple hours setting on a plane, this is a poor way to enter your country.

[dab69]

why would they ever expect we had to answer to them? (200 questions)
not sure I would have put up with such crap after such a flight

After telling them I visited Payatta ...And why did you tell them that?

[fedssocr]

it's not like you can refuse to answer their questions. They are holding all of the cards with respect to whether or not they let you into the country. However if you are being treated poorly I think you could ask for their names/ID to file a complaint later, not that much would likely come of it. I think you did what you had to do unfortunately. If asked point blank I think it is easier to tell them the truth than lie to them and have them zero in on you and make them even more suspicious. Not that it sounds like that did any good in this case.

I always try to be as pleasant and relaxed as possible when dealing with these people.

The Canadians at Toronto airport have always been the toughest on me for some reason. I guess no one visits Toronto alone without plans to visit friends or family.

The only information I ever, ever volunteer to any official anywhere, under any circumstance, is something they can readily find out for themselves. So there's never anything "incriminating" on my laptop or in my suitcase, I never give the address of the apartment or hotel where I will be staying (every city has a Hilton, doesn't it?), and I've always been and am travelling on business (as in "none of your fucking business"). "Export opportunities" is always a very useful pretext

In all the time I've been traveling to Thailand I've only been subjected to the random "thourough search" , where they go thru all your luggage, 2 times. I've never had a problem with customs in San Francisco. But still....

Splash4's expierience was way out of line over-the-top. And other posters in the past have complained about similar expieriences that really amount to nothing more than harrasment of gay travelers.

My suggestion to Splash4, and anyone in the future who suffers this kind of indignity:

WRITE a complaint to the Customs Service
WRITE your Congressman (if he is of the more liberal/gay tolerant disposition)
WRITE your local Gay rights organization and the "Human Rights Campaign" organization (which is national)
WRITE the ACLU

All you have to do is explain your expierience and how you feel it violated your dignity as a gay man.

If this sort of thing happens to me in the future I vow I will not keep quiet. :protest:

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I've had the same treatment in Australia, the USA and the UK whenever you say you have just come from Thailand.

I'm not sure why they think kiddie porn comes from Thailand..Eastern Europe is the main supplier. It's typical authoritarian rubbish..they are always behind the times.

I never take my laptop any more..waiting while they examine it just takes too long. They go through every electronic instrument with a fine tooth comb. Sim cards are examined-digital camera cards. I ditch mine before I travel.

I always respond to silly questions with questions..I've even been asked why I keep all my receipts !. I was once asked who the person was that signed a change de bureau receipt..I said "why don't you phone them and ask them"..but it pays to be polite.

I have complained once in writing when I was delayed for an hour while they went through everything with a fine tooth comb. I received a written apology but it makes no difference.

I will admit here to a naughty trick I do sometimes-now after it happened by accident but it made my day.
I put a cheap plastic jar of sticky hair jell in an outside case pocket knowing it would be smashed..and it's pure joy when the custom agent sticks his hand and it comes out covered with goo.."oh how awful for you" I say. It also puts an end to the search as they give up.

Another clue: "when they ask that ridiculous question "did you pack your bags yourself "..I always say "yes but the bag has now been handled by all sorts of people since I checked in and we know how many corrupt baggage handlers there are at airports".

This is because my suitcase went missing once and turned up a few days later and indeed-something has been added. As I collected the bag and the customs agent asked me to identify it I was petrified when I found a small brown paper wrapped parcel..I was sh*tting myself. But it turned out to be a nicely carved small wooden box a thief had placed there in return for taking a very expensive camera ! It was an amazing insight into the way Thais can justify karma..I love that box now.

[TrongpaiExpat]

You guys that get this treatment and searches must look like either child molesters, gay, swishy, shifty or guilty or all of the above. I have entered USA from every port over 100 times and have never been treated with rudness and never been searched.

"The sighting of a Pattaya hotel/sauna advertisement where I stayed showed two boys setting together with only towels around them and a Spice magazine made it obvious I was gay. When one was examining the brochure I quickly stated it was not against the US law to be gay. His answer was no, were looking for (underage) porno. "
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____

I absolutely do not believe they told you what they were looking for. THEY ask the questions NOT volunteer info to the traveler.

[PeterUK]

You guys that get this treatment and searches must look like either child molesters, gay, swishy, shifty or guilty or all of the above. I have entered USA from every port over 100 times and have never been treated with rudness and never been searched.

That's not a very kind thing to say, TrongpaiExpat. I too have never had the slightest problem going through airports, but I put that down to nothing but my good fortune, and so should you.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

"must look like either child molesters, gay, swishy, shifty or guilty or all of the above."

and prey tell..what do they look like ?:dontknow:

Before 9/11 none of this intensity happened although I was body searched once returning from Amsterdam to London in 1973.

No-it's more likely you are searched because you look fabulously interesting-unlike the rest of the passengers who look as moronic as most petty officials in the US.

There have been some great suggestions here and I shall follow some in the future. I especially like the тАШcarry a bibleтАЩ to throw them off. If this thread has done nothing else, I hope it has alerted a few guys to be more careful in packing and what to say.

Mistake: I really didnтАЩt need that Spice Magazine or the Sansuk Sauna brochure in my hand carry luggage. It was just a last minute тАШthrow it in the bagтАЩ routine but it showed my otherwise closeted sexual orientation as obviously gay.

Mistake: Answering тАШYesтАЩ to question of тАШdid I visit PattayaтАЩ to the first guy in the counter that targeted me for the inspection. He was a younger red-neck prick.

Mistake: When first guy asked purpose of trip I answered a тАШvacation or holidayтАЩ. I had actually gone thru a complete physical at Bumrungrad International Hospital and had the full reports and papers to prove it. I did not need to volunteer the holiday portion. Never thought to answer Medical business.

Mistake: When they made me enter passwords I was probably sweating and nervous and looking guilty of stupidity. My mind was racing trying to think of what I had on my computer that I would not want to share with the Feds. I never imagined someone else would be violating my privacy.

Comments from forum members:

TronqpaiExpat:
I understand your assumption on looks. I am none of the above. Very closeted, business man in small town, active in Chamber of Commerce and all that crap. Was in Marine Corps and still in reasonable shape as I actively go to gym etc. Not Nellie. Never even seen child porn or been with anyone underage. Enough!

I have also entered US from many directions. Europe, Egypt, Brazil, Viet Nam, and multiple trips to Mexico, Costa Rica etc and never ever been subjected to this.

Boogyman:
After viewing several hundred pictures in my camera and probably scanned another thousand on my laptop; the agent in charge should have known nothing showed underage or porno. I had two blank discs that I always carry with my laptop. At the end he did not view them or keep them but asked me if there was any underage porno on them and seemed satisfied or tired of the time he had spent with me. Also, upon clearing me and allowing me to take my bags he admonished me to never bring back any (underage) porno. And his first revealing of the underage porno came when he had found the Spice Mag and brochure and I stupidly told him it was not against the law. He then countered with the first underage porno statement. The inspector in charge was reasonably respectful but doing his job. He could have been worse. It's the policy that needs to be changed - targeting gays etc.

Dab69: I agree 100%.

Kenc: You are right on but the real answer is change in the US government. The insanity made legal by the Patriot Act and Homeland Security powers needs total change. Anything the feds want to do now is justified by 'national security'. The start is a real change in presidents (consider Obama) and some backbone to the Democrats that now almost control congress.

LASTLYтАж My purpose for starting this thread was to alert others so that they will not be caught as unprepared as I was. This discussion has been great and I thank each of you that contributed comments.

This was only my second trip with many more to come. Not even home for 72 hours and I am looking at the calendar trying to figure a way for another trip in January or February. My final act in BKK was getting a "four hander" massage at Bonny's Boy Massage and following in love with the talent of the two boys. I re-lived that hour all the way across the Pacific and its the last memory on my mind as I fall asleep. Love Thailand.

Boogyman:
After viewing several hundred pictures in my camera and probably scanned another thousand on my laptop; the agent in charge should have known nothing showed underage or porno. I had two blank discs that I always carry with my laptop. At the end he did not view them or keep them but asked me if there was any underage porno on them and seemed satisfied or tired of the time he had spent with me. Also, upon clearing me and allowing me to take my bags he admonished me to never bring back any (underage) porno. And his first revealing of the underage porno came when he had found the Spice Mag and brochure and I stupidly told him it was not against the law. He then countered with the first underage porno statement.


Full marks to you splash4 for even taking the time to bother answering Boogeys question. I know that if someone was ignorant enough to call me a lyer, I most certainly wouldn't have done. Why on earth would there be any point in your lying about what took place?

Anyway, although I have never had any problems myself with any custom officials, this thread has some useful tips in the replies within it.

Thanks,


G.

I don't agree with lying to a direct question such as, "Did you do to Pattaya?" A scrap of paper, bill, shopping bag would give you away and lead to further unpleasantness. "Why did you lie about Pattaya?" for example.
If I were asked about my travel in Thailand and felt uneasy about Pattaya, I'd be inclined to say Chonburi. This is, of course, truthful and there would be probably documentary evidence in my bag to support it.
As for as my reasons for travel (I go four times a year and was once questioned on the way out of Heathrow about the number of trips I make), I'd prefer to say, "I have a relationship there" and take it from there. Truthful, but challenging to a bigot.
The problems for my American friends are clearly worse; make sure you vote for the right party next time.

I have never been searched either than the random checks that are done for every... 21st, 33rd...passenger. However, I advise that no one lie to a federal official. If caught it could be a real problem even if you are completely innocent. Also never give any more that a word or two answer.

Visiting Pattaya is not a crime. Lying to a federal officer is. Some times a name like yours may appear on any number of "watch" lists or you may be the random person they search. The lists are only getting bigger. They never seem to remove a name. More people's emails are being read and with the cooperaton of the ISP and phone companies we may have a name or similar name added to the lists. It use to be fairly easy under the "Freedom of Information act" to see if you were on a list by mistake. Not now! I don't think there is an answer to this under the Bush policy, but I believe in the future the courts will act and habeous corpus will be restored.

It is distasteful to anyone who gets "searched". Why me? Most possibly it has nothing to do with us or where we visited. Just "security" gone wrong.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

afterall..you haven't done anything wrong by having a 20 year old Thai man sit on your face. That's not even illegal in the US !!

I don't think you would be picked on because you look gay..mind you I have ocassionally when I've mistakenly worn a gay floral sunfrock with stillettos and a 4 day growth beard..but I always assume that the fashion police have been alerted.

The problem is that gay magazines..as much as we love them..just look naughty..don't they ?

If in doubt..buy a copy of Playboy and display it prominently.

Mind you-if I was a customs officer I'd search me just to be on the safe side.

[thrillbill]

I had the same kind of treatment back in June of '06 at the San Francisco Airport. I was flying home from my job in Thailand and as soon as I innocently said I lived and worked near Pattaya, the customs-agent scribbled something on my card and then I was told to wait in line so the officials could look at my luggage. I thought they were interested in pirated items but the lady right away wanted to look at my photographs in my digetal camera . Luckily I had erased some photos of a couple of my Thai friends and me at the beach that were NOT illegal but would have caused a raised eyebrow in the States since there were no women in the photograph. The gal went through every picture of mine and it royally pissed me off...what right do they have to do this? The places where I have had officials go through my suitcase like a hawk were dictatorships like Libya or Saudi Arabia (yes, I know its a monarchy). And..no, I don't look scummy, like a convict, or whatever that guy said in the other post...)

I was told by someone that if I flew on one of my carriers with my frequent flier number, then they (I guess that means United and the US customs) would have a record of my flights and I wouldn't be searched. With this flight, I had flown China Air which I do not have a frequent flier membership number with. (Yeah, that was the red light- flying on thrifty China Air).
I must admit I haven't had trouble flying with United with my frequent flier number being posted. -Any truth to frequent flier data enabling one to enter without customs singling you out?

[Sen Yai]

Any truth to frequent flier data enabling one to enter without customs singling you out?

Sounds like another urban myth to me. I doubt any immigration authority would rely on FF-miles details when they have your name and passport number logged in and out of every country and on the flight manifest list.

Do you think that being noted as a frequent visitor to LoS would make them less or more likely to search you? Or does frequently flying to other destinations help cover your tracks?

[naklua]

The US helped defeating NAZI-Germany but nowadays in many aspects act like their former enemy. On the other hand Germany has become a very solid democracy with a good part of its citizenry very aware of any laws endangering their civil rights, especially when it involves intrusion on their privacy. A new law on recording internet and telecom data without the need for any suspicion was hit with very much opposition. In the end the, however, the omnipresent paranoia, initiated by 9/11 and since then constantly nurtured by the US administration and even the US media, got the upper hand and the law was passed - but not without massive resistence. Furthermore, I think the law will be challanged in the German High Court as contradicting fundamental civil rights.
I am not a German myself, do/have not live(d) in Germany and this post is not meant to indicate that Germany is the perfect country.
The point I want to make is, that the US civil rights movement seems to have been dead for quite some time, while other countries, which in the past trailed the US with regards to (existence and enforcement of) civil rights, make the principle of the rule of law look much brighter these days. Although the US goverment is on a self declared mission from God to bring democracy and the rule of law to foreign countries - even if this means waging war, but the US leaders seem to be led by 'the end justifies the means" - the are blind to the massive and very commonplace violations th democracy and civil rights back at home. Of course Bush & Co are so high-so, that they themselves have never been subject to the humiliating abuses of US customs officers...

[dab69]

wondering if all this harassment hasn't started by a dedicated flight into the US directly from TH.
Perhaps I haven't been singled out as a single man because I stop in Narita and the plane fills up with people destined from everywhere.

maybe not lie but begin to feed some shit back, answering a question with a question at some point.
Such as, how is that relevant to anyone but me?

I know a baggage inspector, and he is a real wannabe. "Oh boy, they might let us carry a gun soon..."

I don't think you would be picked on because you look gay..mind you I have ocassionally when I've mistakenly worn a gay floral sunfrock with stillettos and a 4 day growth beard..but I always assume that the fashion police have been alerted.And I assume that's why George has never been searched - those saffron robes are a bit of a giveaway

....Kenc: You are right on but the real answer is change in the US government. The insanity made legal by the Patriot Act and Homeland Security powers needs total change. Anything the feds want to do now is justified by 'national security'. The start is a real change in presidents (consider Obama) and some backbone to the Democrats that now almost control congress. ......

Of course your right that one person writing a letter isn't going to change things.
Still, the last thing any bureaucrat wants is some congressonal staffer calling him up and inqiring about his implementation of policies. Bureaucrats are like cockroaches - they hate light being shined on them.
Enough letters might not change the policy but it might soften it a bit.

In any case I know it would make me feel better to say something to people who might make a difference than just sitting and grumbling to myself.

[blazer]

My laptop was searched the last time coming back to MSP from BKK a month ago. First time I've ever gone through an inspection line when returning from overseas anywhere in world.

Standard questions. What countries did you travel to?, What did you do in Thailand? Agent was about to clear me, then said "You didn't bring your laptop with you, did you?" I said yes. I use it for business when traveling.

I was sent to an inspection line. There were two lines and everyone else was getting their luggage checked. But they were only interested in my laptop and did not search the bags. An agent spent about 20 minutes looking through every picture, then cleared me without further question.

On thing I would never do is lie to a federal officer. If they catch you in a small lie they will assume everything else you have been telling them is false.

[cottmann]

....... I was actually more thoroughly inspected by Japanese customs who made me open my bag full of (mostly) dirty clothes. I think he was looking for drugs. ......

And anything counterfeit - clothes, watches, DVDs and, in particular, counterfeit luxury brand items, given that the major luxury brands get something like 30-40% of their global income from Japan.

I'm a naturalized American citizen now residing in Pattaya. I posted the following tread last november (2006).... I haven't been back home for over three years - as I don't see the need to. Here it is again:

I went thru LAX a couple of years ago and was stopped and searched by custom (Department of Homeland and Security) for over 1 hour. I did not smuggle anything illegal, I don't drink nor smoke, so no alcohol and cigarette - I was only carrying my laptop, a medium size suitcase, my hand carry bag with my camera in it. From the get go, I was not just a random check - I was suspect #1 - A gay man Traveling thru S.E. Asia (especially Thailand).

Having gone thru my luggage and found nothing alarming - the officer then rudely told me to turn on my laptop and ordered me (yes ORDERED with a stern voice) to "SHOW ME EVERYTHING!". My business is Import/Export - so I started by showing him lot's of excell and word file reports - he got bored and once again yelled at me "SHOW ME PICTURES!! Don't you have any pictures!!". Hmmm finally we are getting somewhere - Once again because of what I do, most of the pictures I have are of sample merchandise for my business - So I started from the beginning, click, click, click.... BUT THEN:

Apparently without my knowledge my then 14 year old son had downloaded his School Re-treat picture which happen to be on the beach. Innocent pictures of boys and girls, and teachers, and the vendors, and cows, and everything else that goes along with a beach outing. Then the questioning started: "What's with all the boys?", "What are they doing on the beach?", "Why are they wearing bathing suits?" - with me answer each one of them honestly and politely.

Nothing on the computer, by now it's been over 1 hour - after flying over 17 hours sitting in the economy class and at 11:00pm at night - I'm beginning to get annoyed!! I was such a special case that there are now 3 officers around me - Now their attention is my camera. "Show me all the pictures" - one of the officer ordered me which I did. Again my digital camera has over 1 hundred pictures of mostly sample merchandise - after about the 20th picture of nothing... suddenly there is one picture of me an boy taken on the beach wearing our bathing suits! Suddenly I heard one of the officer behind me saying "AHA!! That's it! That's It!" - I was so insulted by the comment but was too afraid to say anything that would make them angry and hold me even longer than they already did - Beside I know that they want me to react in such a manner giving them a reason to detain me - I was irate and being difficult and unreasonable. So I decided to explain to them that the boy was a friend and he is of a legal age, beside we were not doing anything illegal just posing on the beach surrounded by many people.

They gave my camera back and gathered in the back for about 5 minutes. One of the officer came back to me and told me to follow him to a counter - then punched a few things on his computer and gave everything back to me and told me "Thank you and you're free to go" - Just like that. I asked him for the names of the other two officers. He asked me "what for" - "Oh I just want to send you guys a thank you note that's all" - I said. The other officer saw that we were conversing and came back - "What's going on here" he said, "Oh he just want our names" said the other officer - "The name is Cruz!, Write it down! Cruz!!". So I did.

To make a long story short - I wrote a complain letter to the head of Homeland and Security of Los Angeles the following day describing such demeaning treatment I have received the night before. Surprisingly I got a call two weeks later from an investigator telling me that they are sorry that I was treated so bad and are doing an investigation of the 3 officers. He further told me that I was not a suspect of any sort and that it was a routine random check. However the officers were a bit overzealous in this case and he was sorry that I had to experience such treatment. He gave me his personal hand phone number and ask me to call him in the future if I experience the same treatment going thru LAX. Case closed!

What I experienced left a bitter taste in my tongue - I'm a naturalized American and I haven't been back to America since.

I too have been given the once over on more than one occasion at LAX. Seems like the single male returning from Thailand MUST have been up to no good. In the past they mostly have looked thru the baggage looking for this and that but were not generally interested in photos. My biggest fear is them finding the pirated software that I occasionally buy at Pantip plaza. Fortunately, although I resented being singled out as a single male, it hasn't been too terribly bad. In 2006 on return from a trip to Thailand I am expecting them to tell me to head over to the line for baggage seach thinking it would be the same routine again. This time however the guy went thru the luggage, and spotted a camera and pro ceded to look at the photos. I did not have anything I was ashamed of but did have a couple of pictures of a friend of mine. They were naked photos showing his elaborate tattoos which he had gotten between my trips without me knowing. I think they ruined his body but they were quite interesting and I took a couple of pictures. They showed nothing of his private parts, but this seems to stir more interest in the customs guy and he pro ceded to search thru my other bag and thru my address book looking at every page which really did enrage me only because what was there was private and he could have thumbed thru the thing and seen there was nothing. I felt that was an invasion of my privacy. Like we have any privacy left here in the USA. Like others, I too feel that Bush and company have taken leave of their senses with this Homeland Security crap. They have spent billions and we are no safer than 5 years ago. Fanatics in any country can make bombs as was proven in the Oklahoma bombing. Thanks but I would rather live with the potential for security problems than have my freedoms taken away. Customs (Homeland security) is now protecting us from child porn? From my experience the US customs is indeed targeting single men coming from the sex capital of the world. This child porn thing is taking on larger proportions and we will face this for some time to come. Better get used to it. I too agree with those advising of caution when bringing back cameras or laptop computers. Best just to email all photos you have taken and leave them with a blank digital card and laptop to go thru.

Further, when questioned I tell them I love Thailand, have friends there, go to Phuket for the beaches and that I am thinking about retiring there. That pretty well tells them why I am going there. They always seem to ask if the beaches at Phuket are a lovely as this pictures. Kind of puts them in a different mood when they think you have been off enjoying a paradise sitting on the beach with a drink in your hand. All true and I am particularly good at the beach thing.

[Bob]

Best just to email all photos you have taken and leave them with a blank digital card and laptop to go thru.

Although most people know this, deleting a photo from a computer or from a camera memory card in no manner gets rid of the photo. The deleting process just destroys the link to it but the photo is still on the hard drive (or card) and can easily be resurrected by simple programing you can get on the net (and the federal boys surely have better programs than that?).

You can really clean a hard drive by using a wiping program (they say 9 wipes, which is Defense Department standard for secret documents) and I presume (but am not 100%) that nobody can resurrect a photo then. However, since most people don't have wiping programs or don't want to spend 10-30 hours having the program do 9 wipes, smarter thing to do is not have any questionable photos in the first place.

Of course, if you email the questionable photos from an internet cafe, at least the photos aren't on your laptop (but they're still on your camera's memory card!).

[dab69]

CIA vs army from interrogation handbook,
a timely link

http://www.slate.com/id/2179514/

Bob: You are entirely correct about deleted files not being erased from the hard drive or camera cards. Best not to download to laptop at all in my opinion. Camera cards, well the best we can hope for is that they don't do a full scan for deleted files and just look at the pics shown as they did with me. While I don't generally tend to take photos much anymore on my trips, I don't like the idea that they are invading my private life. I do tend to think one could change the file extensions on a pic bury it in some program folder and they would never find it. I don't think these customs guys have the time to do what needs to be done to really find something that is hidden. I go to Thailand to relax and don't feel the need to be that connected with a laptop with all the internet places around. Bob, don't cameras have a way to initialize the card with is like reformatting the thing?

Let's face it the government in intruding more and more on our lives. I keep waiting for the FBI to knock on my door for all the rants in some of my emails about wishing someone would do away with Bush but thus far no such luck.

[jinks]

If anyone is really worried.

Upload any pictures that you have taken to a web server.

Either onto your own or onto the free space that is available on Yahoo, Hotmail, Gmail and several others.

The camera card can then be re-formatted and have "tourist" pictures on it :)

The pictures can then be retrieved when you get home.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

it's claimed that although you delete photos from a flash card the images can still be found much in the way that information on computer hard disks can still be forensically accessed.

Who knows if this is true but there was a thread on here by someone who actually picked up a discarded camera disk before he went throught customs without thinking. The results could have been horrendous as he realised later...and after the Sawatdee board had torn him to shreds for his stupidity.

This business about child porn is a classic scare technique-much in the same way they are terrifying parents into believing that when their kids sign on to MySpace or something similar-a predator is going to reach through the computer screen and drag their kiddie off into cyber space.

The reality being that in the entire world-under 20 people have actually been arrested for attempting to lure a child via the internet but dozens have been set up by TV shows or federal cops posing as children and luring fantasy merchants into meeting them.

It's yet another step in gaining control of the internet..scare people rotten and they will eventually accept "gateways" on the net where private corporations control access.

As for customs officials-I've been involved in a court case where they have lied through their teeth until the defendant's lawyer demanded security camera footage from the customs area..the case was hastily dropped.

[Bob]

it's claimed that although you delete photos from a flash card the images can still be found much in the way that information on computer hard disks can still be forensically accessed.


It's true. I deleted all the photos by accident from a compact flash card. Then I found a free program on the net that supposedly could resurrect the photos - and it did (all but about 5%). As I said before, I'm sure that the federals have much better programs that could find 100% of them.
So, if you'd had the photos on a digital camera card, the photos can be found (unless you have adequately used a wiping program and that program actually does what it says it can).

[Dboy]

I'm sure that the federals have much better programs that could find 100% of them.

Yes. The standard tool for doing computer forensics is called EnCase (I'm certified in it). Here's their website:

http://www.guidancesoftware.com/

If you are really curious about what it can do, there are copies of EnCase available on filesharing sites. I keep a copy of EnCase on the laptop I travel
with, just to mess with the fascists if they ever search me.

If your computer is "searched" what they really do is make an image copy of your laptop..Which they can keep forever. So any passwords
you happen to have stored on the laptop must then be considered to be compromised. Treat a search the same way you would treat any computer security breach.
Change all of your passwords asap (online banking, message boards, email accounts...). Wipe the machine and re-install your operatiing system, because they could easily have installed keylogging or other monitoring software. Especially do this if you have a criminal record...I've recently heard of a case of this happening.

Of course the best option (if you have to carry a computer, as I do) is to make sure it's very clean (no porn even if it's legal, no movies, no mp3's). Remember
this is no longer about freedom. Freedom as we knew it no longer exists in the US. It's about survival. If you're not carrying the laptop for work and are just using it
to check email, surf porn, and look cool in coffee shops with that new MacBook Pro, probably best to not bring it at all and just hit the internet cafe instead.

And as for the questions they ask, anything you say will be used against you, so only say things that give them no information. NEVER offer information to them unless
it's to your benefit. Lie to them, but be careful. Your primary goal should be to minimize your contact with them, so saying anything you need to that will make yourself appear uninteresting. Never forget they are the enemy. I've been through the extensive search, and it sucks.

The bigger plan for interested people reading this post is (in my opinion) to start arranging things in such a way that you can eventually create a life for yourself outside the US and not return there. The US is turning to shit, and no presidential election is going to fix it.

Dboy