More money ? OK no condom !

I had a chat last night with a thai friend, and he explain to me that tere are not so many customers at this time in Pattaya.
What affraid me that seems to have a new game : Customers who are ready to pay more to have sex with no condom.
My friend say to me him really no like to do, but not so easy to say no when the guy can give 1500/2000 for a short time and you are waiting for a customers sometime for many days.
Him say to me that really more and more guy ask for that.
How it can be possible to do like this ? how some farang can use their money like power to do so bad ?
Many I am a little bit naive or stupid, but how we can play with life just for fun ?

[Marsilius]

The same phenomenon is apparent in the adult entertainment business at the moment.

Sales of pornographic films featuring actors wearing condoms have slumped. There is, though, a heavy demand for films featuring no condoms.

As a result, barebacking movies are in production worldwide and DVD covers make a great thing of proclaiming that they feature barebacking sex.

All the evidence is that many purchasers of real or vicarious sex just don't give a damn about the consequences of unprotected sex.

[Aunty]

I had a chat last night with a thai friend, and he explain to me that tere are not so many customers at this time in Pattaya.
What affraid me that seems to have a new game : Customers who are ready to pay more to have sex with no condom.
My friend say to me him really no like to do, but not so easy to say no when the guy can give 1500/2000 for a short time and you are waiting for a customers sometime for many days.
Him say to me that really more and more guy ask for that.
How it can be possible to do like this ? how some farang can use their money like power to do so bad ?
Many I am a little bit naive or stupid, but how we can play with life just for fun ?

I agree with you, jomtien2007, but I just don't think there is an easy answer to it. I wonder, do the boys really understand the extent to which they are playing Russian roulette with their lives when they allow a John to fuck them without a condom? I imagine that education, good self-esteem, and greater economic independence would help, but somehow I feel there will always be some who are prepared to take the risk for the money, because when you're young what might happen to you next year is a century off, but the need for money is now. An the immoral among us will always be willing to exploit that.

thank you aunty, it's exactly what I mean.
yes they are free and they can think by themself, but I think even we no want to "take care" them, even we just need some fun, just loooking for a short time, we (farang,westerners, customers,..) cant play with them, because HIV is a game you never win, and cant play with life all next partners, clients or whatever.
Barebacking is a stupid game all over the world, and it's again more fucking bad when they use money to "poor" boys to obtain it.

[thrillbill]

I had a Western-Asian buddy that fell so madly in love with a handsome, muscular California stud that he couldn't see straight. This fellow had his own web sight of pics of himself which supposedly was just for people to look at. I tried to tell my innocent friend that "Mr. California" wasn't just showing off his body to his relatives and friends; for there was another reason for it. Unfortunately this dream-boat was found to be HIVafter my Asian friend was fooling around with him for a couple months. When I told my Asian friend that he better protect himself, his answer was:" I can't wear a condom... it doesn't feel the same... and if I get HIV then it will show how much I love him...." Then I asked him if "Mr. California" now insisted if he wore a condom since he knew he was HIV positive and the answer was "NO." Needless to say, I had a fit and said if this piece of white meat really loved HIM, he would insist on having safe sex. Then the next answer from this innocent (but in some ways stupid) friend of mine who lives in California also said, "Well, there's treatment out there now that will prolong your life for 30some years..." I then did some research on internet and this is true, but: 1) the medicine is expensive 2) this new treatment cocktail could have side effects with the heart, liver, or kidneys.

So even when people should no better and are educated about it (and not doing "it"for the $$) they still make up excuses. :idea:

I read somewhere recently where a movie was being made - all were tested beforehand, but then there is a "3 month window" period, well I think you know the rest.

HI,

People resorting to this behaviour have will have no respect for themselves or anyone else.

Thailand has one of the most imformative AIDS/HIV prevention programmes in the World. It is out in the open and not hidden away as it can be in Middle Eastern and African countires.

It is however, cruel and very unfortunate, that people can blackmail the boys and/or girls with this type of evil torture, the power of money over them.

I agree with Aunty that it is a shame things are this way.

Regards, testing, We have discussed before and will again.

You are only [ the test] as good as your last sexual encounter, as soon as you have unprotected sex again, the test is useless.

Alcohol,greed,stupidity, being young and naive, poor education, all play a part in this.

for the moment there is this organization SWING walking around and giving free condoms to the bars and boy trying to get them to do safe sex but may by a fl yer in Thai telling them more about the dangers to have no safe sex would be more needed all bars should have some information for their staff also I think more young people are getting indifferent about HIV because they do not knew the real danger also in Europe it is like this
there is still a lot of work to do

I'm amazed at the stupidity in this world sometimes. You'd really think people would know better after all this time.

Its not just Thailand.
Sadly I see some of the same stupid attitudes here in San Francisco - arguably the "Ground Zero" for the gay AIDS epidemic.

[dave_tf-old]

I've pretty well cut myself off from mass media, but is there ever any coverage of HIV/Aids any more? All the mentions I ever seem to see are about the situation in sub-saharan Africa. As serious as that is, sadly to most of the world it's too 'over there'. Are the networks and news channels talking about it at all?

You are right, unfortunately for some strange reason the hype and publicity around AIDS does seem to have reduced. Maybe the war games in the middle East, Islam phobia and other news has overtaken it?

Forget about trying to make sense of the sub Saharan Africa situation... there are so many denialist leaders (and cultural crap) preventing them from realizing that up to 40% (in some cases) of their populations are HIV+

its a very sad state of affairs - but i don't think its correct that its something they do just because evil falangs are coercing them with more money.

In Pattaya (but never in BKK), many of the guys I've been with, I've had to hault play to cover up - as they were quite indifferent to protection or not. Apathy is the issue here.

[allieb]

Some of you may remember that my very first BF LOS convinced me to have unprotected sex with him after knowing him a while. I later found out he had been HIV for almost two years. I tested negative twice 9 months later. I had had unprotected sex about 40 times with him. I was lucky.

On my last trip to LOS I played a little game . I offed about 8 boys during my trip and with every one I started fore play and then attempted to do the deed without a condom. I had no intention of carrying it through but just wanted to see how many were prepared to do it. No extra money was offered I just got to the point of entry making sure thy saw no condom. NOT ONE BOY OBJECTED OR TRIED TO STOP ME.

I of course at this point stopped and opened a condom and applied the same and asked why they didn't insist on a condom and got the same mi pen ri every time. So the boys have proved to me that they don't really care about condoms which makes me even more careful an alert.

[Aunty]

Could it be though, alieb, that the reason they don't ask for a condom to be used is out of fear that they will loose their tip if they insisted on it? Or even worse not get paid at all and get a bad reputation back at the bar? So maybe it's not so much apathy but rather economics that drives the decision for them?

I wonder if the boys ever discuss among themselves, (or even think it to themselves) how many of their Farang are HIV positive? And I wonder how they account for HIV/Aids illnesses and deaths among their present and former number? There must be some 'collective wisdom' by which they make sense of this?

[alipatt-old]

I went to the clinic in New Zealand to be HIV tested (-) and was offered condoms - They gave me 3 boxes of 1 dozen.

When I went back for the results of the test a week later I was asked if I needed any more.

I was most upset as I had been hopeful that I would one day be in a position to use some of them. ( Ended up giving a box to a worker in Hong Kong when I went there 2 weeks ago )

The Sauna's here have a condom and lube duo packet as a give away from the aids foundation and the prostitutes collective supply their members with discounted products in an effort to help keep the HIV and STD under control.

For personal reasons I will never have unprotected anal sex as I have an extremly small chance of contracting HIV+ in day to day living and would never be able to live with the knowledge that I could have passed that on.

I always have at least a 3 set of duo pack with me at all times - but have only once had the chance to use them - Have been able to give them to friends though.

Roll on Pattaya in January

[allieb]

Could it be though, alieb, that the reason they don't ask for a condom to be used is out of fear that they will loose their tip if they insisted on it? Or even worse not get paid at all and get a bad reputation back at the bar? So maybe it's not so much apathy but rather economics that drives the decision for them?

Aunty you could well be right. I'm sure that some feel that way but the general feeling I found is that of don't care. It beats me this attitude they have. In the Thai world of prostitution I feel that the risks are 100 fold than that of ordinary non commercial casual sex because in non commercial casual sex there are so many out there looking for a long term healthy relationship. when Mr right is found.

I'm sure that some feel that way but the general feeling I found is that of don't care.

Thats the impression I get to Allieb, I always have rubbers and lube together on the side board - so couldn't make my intention for safer sex any clearer. This I found to be in sharp contrast to guys I've been with in Bkk - and I suspect this is largely due to excellant work done by SWING.

On my last trip to Pattaya, one boy, who'd already earned his tip whispered in my ear that he want me to fuck him again, without condom, and cum inside him. Another 2 guys tried to talk me into barebacking them, on condition that I only go with them - and not take other boys (for the remainder of my trip).

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I simply cannot stand sex with a condom. I remember when I was a hippie back in the late '60s and we did in the street , completely starkers and we would have laughed hysterically if someone offered us a condom. ( mind you we were usually laughing hysterically having dropped some LSD-wow have you had sex on LSD !!!)

Now people won't even shake hands with you unless they are wearing rubber gloves.

Thank God I'm now just a voyeur.

[jinks]

Now people won't even shake hands with you unless they are wearing rubber gloves.

Secondary use...... safe sex for wankers :clown:

Cheapskates get their plastic ones free from gas stations.

One word. Mudtracks.

I ain't gonna get shit from you messy farangs btm.

One word. Mudtracks.

I ain't gonna get shit from you messy farangs btm.

Ohhh nassty!

But spot-on!

[cuteboy]

Some months ago I was given a VCD. It turned out to be made up of files that each named the same Sunee Plaza bar. There were about 20 video clips, each one showed a Thai boy being fucked by what seemed to be the same falang. About 2 thirds involved no condom. Even allowing for the clips to cover a period of some months, there are fewer than 20 boys normally in the bar.
So, I would guess, 50% will not only agree to get fucked without a condom, they will be happy to be videoed as it happens.
Bar Boys always say they will not agree unless a condom is used. Does not appear to be true.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

"were about 20 video clips, each one showed a Thai boy being fucked by what seemed to be the same falang.'..sounds horribly dull.

Hello I have the same experience over the last year that some guys do not insist on condoms anymore. And this as well for beach boys as for two of my more educated friends (one is in his third year in Medical school in Bangkok and the other has a university degree in marketing). They say they think I am OK. I do of course always put on a condom, but this is certainly not a good direction it is taking. Recently I had sex with a very hot guy around 30 years old I met in DJ-Station. Just before coming he asked me to pull out and take off the condom because he wanted the feeling of me coming inside him. He prided himself that he was still HIV-negative after five years of serious going out in Bangkok. Some do indeed see it as Russian Roulette.

... I have never bought a mucky video - they do nothing for me whatsoever, now people have given me videos over the years but I have thrown them away, strangely enough I have never bought a mucky magazine either, well not for myself anyway, I did'nt even look at them much as I grew up. I really don't see what people see in this overpriced rubbish.

These boy hos are selling their arse!Thailand has had a very long tradition of safe sex education - but despite that if a guy wants extra baht to receive a load of farang jizz - what business is it of anyone else darl? They are selling their arse, so the responsibility is with them.

[krobbie]

I strenuously disagree paul. The onus does not end with the fuckee but also with the fucker. If you've absolutely no conscience at all ... knock your self out. But I hope we never come face to face re: this subject, as this makes me very angry indeed (read; bitch from hell) for reasons that will be known by some here on the board.

krobbie :argue:

How can you say that Paul ?
In every talk with a boy of 19-20 who is working and a man of 40-60 (and more) and who have the money (the power) You think that's the boy only decide ?
How many boys in Pattaya ande right now how many customers ?
With some strange (or cultural) thinking of thai people they can only choose of dying today if they no have money to eat And dying tomorrow with HIV. And they hope HIV it's not sure.
We want fun, they want money, we want feelings, they want take care, most of us could be their dad, I know you no have sex with your son (for people who have kids) but what could you say to your son if he could be in this position ?
I am Ok to have fun, to have great moment, I no need a long term relation ship, I know what they do and how they act, they are not only toys or just (ass)hole. Just so (too) young and so strange (bad) thinking about their life.
Barebacking is just another kind of murder, and so easy to play with life of young guy.
Paul, definitely, you are so wrong. We must sometimes teach them some so easy way : No Condom, No sex, even for more money, and it's not a game !

[thaiworthy-old]

I once bought a year's health insurance policy for a Thai bf, to which he replied, "No need for insurance, I am healthy." The Thai seem to live entrenched in the concerns of the day. Prospects for the future, especially the "unlucky" prospects are too far out of reach (into the future) to be worried about.

If you want to understand things from their point of view, consider that each day is a struggle to survive. It's hard to worry about tomorrow when today is difficult enough to get by. When your whole life is composed of these kinds of days, it is somewhat unsurprising when a young Thai does not consider that the actions of today (condom use) affects the consequences of tomorrow. This outwardly appearance seems like "fearlessness" to us.

His reply to my health insurance purchase offered me only a glimpse of how some Thais think. This cultural thinking is not all that strange if you look at things from this point of view. It is fearful for us tho, because we might have to walk in their shoes to completely understand it, and not one of us wants to ponder what life would be like living in abject poverty. After all, most of the retirees living here have spent their whole lives saving for retirement; why think of how one would get by without savings? How many of us ever even thought about retirement when we were in our teens and twenties?

Until a Thai can attain the basic needs to stay alive (expensive), there is very little chance he will ever change these attitudes. He will cling to the notion that he will be "lucky," (cheap) and avoid this particular catastrophe altogether.

[krobbie]

I understand what thaiworthy is saying here and agree in point of fact.

And to go further ... that does not absolve farang from using condoms. We are well aware thats it the person getting fucked who is at greater risk, so to have sex without using condoms is, in my mind, tantamount to not giving a flying fig about the guys you are with let alone what you may be passing on to them.

Besides which these days all the sexual diseases are back. From Chlamydia, to syphilis, anal warts and my favourite .... ghonoroea.

It doesn't stop at the possibility of HIV transmission. As I have said there's more than unloading your jizz into someone in the sex industry. But knock yourself out if you don't care about yourself either. Just don't bitch to anyone when you need to go to the STD clinic. Oh the ignimony!



Cheers :idea:

[thaiworthy-old]

Krobbie, I wish there were something I could say that would contain a 'universal fix-all" for the ruthlessness of farang men. That includes con artists, pedos, as well as the ill-intentioned condom non-user. I suppose that if every farang made it a point to use one, I doubt too many Thai men would argue about it.

It just seems to be the nature of some sex tourists and gives everybody, as well as Thailand-- a bad reputation. Just as we look at things from the psychology of a Thai person, we also have to delve in the same of the sex tourist. And tourist is exactly the right word. Tourists go to places to do things they couldn't or wouldn't normally do at home in their own neighborhood. But this is only a partial truth. The whole picture is much more complicated than that from a tourists' point-of-view. I can't generalize with the farang tourist like I can with young Thai men, because farang come from so many different walks of life.

"What happens in Thailand, stays in Thailand," is paraphrased from a famous Las Vegas idiom. And with that springs the carte-blanche, cavalier attitude that says, "I will do whatever I can get away with." To lay down the law, is the policeman's point-of-view, no one else's. No one can force anybody to do something they don't want to do, good or bad.

So obviously, it is just plain apathy. We do know the difference between right and wrong. These are deadly sins we commit when doing things that are well-known to be inconsistent with laws and ethics. And it takes a good knock on the head before the apathetic traveler changes his ways.

In this respect I am reminded of the Dickens tale, "A Christmas Carol," in which Scrooge sees the value of compassion over greed. But look at the events that transpire before he realizes this? There are no visiting angels, ghosts with visions of the past or future in Thailand. Unfortunately, when confronted with the use of a condom, I am very much afraid the apathetic sex tourist will state in his mind only one possible reply.

He will say, "Humbug! I tell you. HUMBUG!"

Krobbie, I love you dearly, but are you really ready to play the role of the ghost of Christmas Future?

[krobbie]

Well. all I can do is state what I truly belive in my heart.

Everyone is free to do exactly as they wish but if just one person remembers this thread and decides condoms are fair and reasonable and chooses to have sex only while wearing them, then I'm one happy camper.

I don't want to change the world, just say it as I see it.

I hope I'm not boring everyone to death?

Cheers

Well. all I can do is state what I truly belive in my heart.

I hope I'm not boring everyone to death?

Cheers

The only people you will bore to death with your views are those who insist that unprotected sex is their right.

Maybe in the future they will find that they would have rather been bored to death by your views than by the Aids they will have by then contracted.