L.T.R, Sponsors and how much

Whe you begin a LTR with a thai boy (moneyboy or not), when you spend 10 days or 2 weeks or more with him, and during your stay you pay everything, eat, discos, karaokes, gifts, room, phone cards..
How much you tip him before to go back your country ?
And after, how much you think it's good to send to try to help (or to sponsor) him from your home country ?
And what kind of relationship you want or need, phone call, Email, Chat, Sms ? Everyday, 2 or 3 time per week, everyweek, everymonth ?
I heard so many stories from westerners or from Thai boy, I dont know what is good, what is legend, and what is reality.

To me, the Thai boys (or guys) are for sexual purpose only. I pay for play and have no desire to develop any relationship with them. I do not sponsor after I leave Thailand. :bounce:

[jinks]

My friend, the same one for two years so far, gets a nice Christmas present.

Last year a new top of the range mobile phone. = good face !
All found when he is with me, moving into my hotel.
Last year he came to Phuket with me after our time in Pattaya.

He gets pocket money to pay baht buses and taxis ect so I don't get ripped off.

Plus a parting tip of......

As an intending purchaser of a Rolls Royce who asked what is its horse power was told... Sufficient.


I can and do make his life better when I am with him.
He knows never to send begging e-mails or texts.
He has called [and paid for the call :) ] on two birthdays.
I shall, inshallah, see him again in 11 days.

To answer your questions direct (and this is only my feeling on the subject):
Whe you begin a LTR with a thai boy (moneyboy or not), when you spend 10 days or 2 weeks or more with him, and during your stay you pay everything, eat, discos, karaokes, gifts, room, phone cards..
How much you tip him before to go back your country ?
1,000 baht per day. Karaoke, gifts, phone cards etc are not considered "payment" or "tip". (boy, I can hear all the Farangs holler'n already!)

And after, how much you think it's good to send to try to help (or to sponsor) him from your home country ?
12,000 to 16,000 baht per month with occasional "presents" for holidays, birthdays etc.

And what kind of relationship you want or need, phone call, Email, Chat, Sms ? Everyday, 2 or 3 time per week, everyweek, everymonth ?
Unless the guy is really computer savvy you'd better stick to phone calls 1-3 times a week. Most Thais can't write English well enough to carry on a useful conversation that way.

I heard so many stories from westerners or from Thai boy, I dont know what is good, what is legend, and what is reality.
And you're going to be hearing a LOT more soon....

Another word of advice, Get him OUT of Pattaya and send him home ASAP. If you don't he'll be back in the trade in no time and spending all sorts of money he shouldn't be.

If you can't afford it, don't take it on!
You're looking at a minimum of about $500 a month (stipend, phone bills, presents, extras etc). Be realistic about your ablility and willingness to shell out every month.

... of the famous story of the new British judge (when sodomy was illegal) who was pondering the appropriate sentence during his first trial for the offence. He approached the Lord Chief Justice and asked "What would you give a man who allowed himself to be buggered?". "Oh," replied the LCJ, "Three or four pounds - whatever I had on me at the time". There is no "standard" allowance; what can you afford and, of that, how much do you want to give?

Whe you begin a LTR with a thai boy (moneyboy or not), when you spend 10 days or 2 weeks or more with him, and during your stay you pay everything, eat, discos, karaokes, gifts, room, phone cards..
Buy him a Karaoke that sells food and drink with a room upstairs, you've saved money straight way,as co owner you pay nowt!
How much you tip him before to go back your country ?
How many relatives, Rai of Land and Buffalos does he have?
And after, how much you think it's good to send to try to help (or to sponsor) him from your home country ?
100,000 baht per month for starters, if he's not a gambler
And what kind of relationship you want or need, phone call, Email, Chat, Sms ? Everyday, 2 or 3 time per week, everyweek, everymonth ?
Try "all" for starters and see what works!
I heard so many stories from westerners or from Thai boy, I dont know what is good, what is legend, and what is reality.
It's all a dream, carry on and enjoy it!

Jomtien 2007,

Excuse the wit and sarcasm. I was a bit bored.

I would wait a little while until your holiday sentiments cool off.

A sad reality, which many of us have learnt in the past, is that "All that glitters, is not Gold"

You, at this moment may not know your holiday feelings or true feelings, neither do they. You should wait and see how it pans out.

Telephone a couple or three times a week, Emails and texts, sms's tend to be done, [ at a price] by people who usually have a better command of English than the people you meet and do not necessarily reflect the points your friend is trying to convey. unless its asking for money!

[krobbie]

To answer your questions direct (and this is only my feeling on the subject):
Whe you begin a LTR with a thai boy (moneyboy or not), when you spend 10 days or 2 weeks or more with him, and during your stay you pay everything, eat, discos, karaokes, gifts, room, phone cards..
How much you tip him before to go back your country ?
1,000 baht per day. Karaoke, gifts, phone cards etc are not considered "payment" or "tip". (boy, I can hear all the Farangs holler'n already!)

And after, how much you think it's good to send to try to help (or to sponsor) him from your home country ?
12,000 to 16,000 baht per month with occasional "presents" for holidays, birthdays etc.

And what kind of relationship you want or need, phone call, Email, Chat, Sms ? Everyday, 2 or 3 time per week, everyweek, everymonth ?
Unless the guy is really computer savvy you'd better stick to phone calls 1-3 times a week. Most Thais can't write English well enough to carry on a useful conversation that way.

I am pleased to know that I am not cheap charlie. You are spot on with your estimates IMHO.

Cheers
Krobbie

Guys,

Your estimates are a little over on the monthly amount I think? [ especially in the early days] you tend to find when they have surplus cash and time on their hands, well, we all know.

The rest is fine, but if you start looking at Thai Managers salaries in small Hotels etc. they are at this level.

The average Isaarn worker is 200 baht per day, that's a reasonable manual job.

Skilled Electricians in my previous Hotel, aren't receiving that amount nor in any other Hotel.

I think you are a little in the bracket of "kind to generous ' but if you can afford it,carry on.

A small point, a lot of posters tend to confuse or include the fact that they have bought meals, gifts etc and include this in the equation, hardly fair, you can say No, if asked, or simply, that if they want to purchase an item, eg. "The usual mobile phone" then it is deducted off their pay/salary at the end.

I guarantee they will try the Heart strings to get you to pass it over or forget about it.

Many will find, that the first time, payment day by day is best.

I do rememeber a boy in a bar that I got rather friendly with for a time - his english was of a better standard that the other boys so he was the writer of SMS messages for all the boys in the bar. He had a quite comprehensive library of the usual sort (buffaloes, grandmothers, etc) and for a small consideration would send messages from the other boys phones. Most of the boys were running a string of at least 3 farang, some many more, and somehow, miraculously, they never seemed to coincide.

Thank you all for your answer and your advice.
Kquill thank you for your sarcasm, really, It's another way to think, and I will try to remember it.
And yes really, I think It will be better if I can convince him to go back his village, he has so many "good" friends who work with him, and who give to him so many good advice too, and make him change his mind about only 3 to 5 time per day.
Lover, Boyfriend, Sponsor, Customers, Relationship,... sometime too many words to describe me and swing too much in my small brain.

[catawampuscat]

How much is always an "up to you" type question..

I witnessed a minor miracle the other day. An older farang had met a boy in a Sunee boy bar
a few years ago and at that time, I knew them both. The boy was new to the scene and probably
not quite 18 and the farang was around 65 y.o. The boy couldn't speak any English and the farang
decided to send him to school to learn.
About a year later they were still together and the farang sent the boy to a technical school to learn about computers.

The farang supported the boy through out the 3 or 4 years and only spent around six months a year in Thailand.

Well, the boy looks great now and is in his early twenties. He speaks English very well and is doing well in
University. I have never seen the boy working again and he is a "model" for what the lucky few farangs can
hope for with their bfs.

I think the boy was highly motivated and only spent a very short time in the business. Also the farang treated him
very well and was financially able to do so without a strain.

Frankly, I don't know all the details and no doubt there were some hiccups along the way but I was very pleasantly surprised to
see this success story and one boy who made the most of the opportunity and didn't spend the money on booze, drugs, women
or buying mobiles and motorbikes. I doubt he represents more than a very small fraction of the bar boys who actually break free
from the world of easy money etc. and am sure he wasn't living in Pattaya when the farang was out of the country.. It can happen!! :cat:

To me, the Thai boys (or guys) are for sexual purpose only. I pay for play and have no desire to develop any relationship with them. I do not sponsor after I leave Thailand. :bounce:


The best post ever! Can you really do this and if yes, please be our teacher!

First reaction, Jomtien 2007, was that if he is "not a money boy" then why are you tipping him and why is he accepting the money ???

catawumpuscat, while I have no reason to doubt that you "witnessed a minor miracle the other day", I cannot see how you can know what the boy has been doing for what must now be 4 or 5 years. If he was at technical school, then university, he would have hardly been able to spend any time in Pattaya at all, so while he may well have studying hard his sponsor was not in a position to know what he was doing or spending his money on, nor are you (other than you did not see him in Pattaya when his sponsor was away for half the year).

I know one boy who matches this profile exactly and whose Swiss sponsor is proudly paying for him to get an MA at university to follow his BA; he also now speaks English very well and he has his BA certificate and an album full of photos of his graduation ceremony and party to prove it. The truth is that he has never been to University, except to borrow a friend's gown and mortar-board for the photos, he only completed nine years at school, the certificate is from MBK, and he divides his time between cruising the saunas, bars and bus stations in Bangkok (in a skirt, etc, when I last saw him, which his sponsor would certainly not approve of!) and doing the same in his home town. He, too, is no longer seen in Pattaya but that is mainly due to the number of people he owes money to.

I also know another boy, with a Russian sponsor, from the same home town who worked in the same bar, with the same level of education, who took the extra tuition and exams needed to complete his high school certificate (3 years condensed to 2) in his home town, and who is now genuinely at technical college, so you are right - it can happen!!

What I do not know of, even after many years here, is any LDR (Long Distance Relationship) which has developed into a genuine LTR (Long Term Relationship) once the farang sponsor has come to live in Thailand full time. Although there must be an exception out there somewhere, my own experience and that of any farang I have met living here is that boys who want a LDR (or preferably a lot of LDRs!) simply do want want the real or imagined restrictions of a 24/7 farang relationship. Farangs living here can and do have a LTR with a Thai (my Thai partner and I have lived together very happily for more than 5 years), but they just do not appear to ever be with the same Thai they originally planned on!!

If you really do believe that you are going to be the exception, then I think kquill is pretty well spot on with the financial costs - just try to remember that it is all too easy to blur the line betwen kindness and weakness.

[catawampuscat]

Gone fishing, I agree and hope my little story reflected my amazement at the outcome, when the odds are so small for success..

In my own experience, I supported and paid for my first Thai guy's high school equivalency degree. I had paid for AUA lessons in
English and he would tell me each month or so , how he got all A's...

One day, I looked at his report card and realized that A= Average... AA was = Above Average and BA was = Below Average..
I got a chuckle out of my false assumption but his English had improved and that was far more important than a grade.
He held several jobs, which were possible with a H.S. certificate but some how he ended up working in a massage place as
a relative is involved in the ownership. He is still only in his 30's and I am glad I was able to help him even if it didn't work out
as I thought it might.. Western prejudices about what is good is part of the problem and in the end we can only enable. It is up to the boy/guy....
:cat:

Guys,

I was involved many many years ago with a young man from Uttaradit, [ before Tam] I met him in a beer bar in Boyztown, [owned at that time, by the lunatic Austrian] which is now Oscars.

I had, at that time, Cruz 101 in Pattaya, but it was only a hobby, and I was based in the UK.

I met this person, who came for a job, after the owner of his bar during a drunken orgy, was smashing his own bar up and threatening everyone in Pattayaland Soi 3.

Anyway, to the point. I took him back to the UK after obtaining a visa, which in those days, was very difficult to get.

I put him through Bradford College and also through a course on Innkeeping for the licensed trade.

He passed all courses in the UK, which of course, I paid for, and did well.

He gained various certificates and Diplomas as well as the MBII certificate, and returned to Thailand with an impressive portfolio.

He was given a job, back then, at Amari Airport Hotel, Bangkok. as a shift manager.

He left this employment, as he says, he did not like his Boss.

I have kept in loose contact with him over the years, as he amuses me with his tales and exploits.

He came and saw me in the Tawana a couple of months ago,[ he had phoned me as a matter of urgency in Isaarn and asked me to ring him when I arrived in Bangkok] as he had borrowed from the Chinese to get a noodle stall going in Bangkok and carefully explained that once he was able to clear them and get on his feet, without the ridiculous interest charges, he would be making profit.

He told me he was now in his thirties and was not the person I knew all those years ago.

I lent him the money [ 20,000 baht] and have had every story for it not to be repaid, from the high Gasoline charges, [ which he blames on the Military coup!] to the Thai baht, [ which has got nothing to do with it!] to the increase in raw materials for his noodle shop.

Needless to say, I have not received one baht back.

Guys, for those of you bored with Buffalos, education and sick Aunts, the NEW one is noodle stalls!

Talk about Live long and prosper.

So, you see, for all the good advice, I still fall for it!

[catawampuscat]

kquill you are in good company and I doubt many of us have escaped from the cursed "loan".
I was recently asked for some vague sum to build a restaurant on a plot owned by a kareoke and this
restaurant would employ my Thai friend and his extended family. Of course, the idea was for me to
buy the building materials and the restaurant supplies and no doubt the food itself.

I would also pay the rent for my friends room as well as water,electric and cable charges, daily money for
food/cigarettes etc. and at some future time he could earn a couple of hundred baht a night on a good night.
Somehow, I resisted the temptation to jump into this venture and when I suggested that the kareoke should
build the restaurant as they will own it, the concept fell apart.
Oh, and the rent for the future restaurant was more than the rent the boy bars pay. No business sense whatsoever
but I guess when you borrow and it isn't your money, what do you have to lose.

I would sooner "loan" him the money than "loan" it to the criminals and confidence men who prey on farangs with
sad sad stories of paying for boyfriends' funerals, money tied up in dead boys' bank accounts, lost passports and wallets,
big money coming soon as the foreign bank can transfer it and on and on.
I personally know one farang who got taken for 500,000B. and another for 400,000B. to the same farang who never paid back
a baht and continues to prey on trusting farangs..
The farangs are far worse than the Thai boys and you don't even get kissed when you get screwed...... :cat:

The farangs are far worse than the Thai boys and you don't even get kissed when you get screwed...... :cat:


Cat,

Believe me,I know! no more said!

Any poster giving the advice, 'send the boy back to his village', needs his face slapped or cold water thrown in it.
Most stupid to believe this is possible. Why would he go back to poverty when he has the chance to scam tourists out of a nice salary? NOT going to happen.

Any poster giving the advice, 'send the boy back to his village', needs his face slapped or cold water thrown in it.
Most stupid to believe this is possible. Why would he go back to poverty when he has the chance to scam tourists out of a nice salary? NOT going to happen.

Boogyman,

As a rule of thumb, you are right, however, there are exceptions!

Tam, was one of the who hated the scene with a vengeance and relished the chance to get home.

Easily checked as well when you are phoning, just check the dialling code!

Simple but effective, and insist on calling them on the Land line! Most have them or the neighbours have them, [how else do you think they stay in touch with their Mam and Dad [ because they don't usually have mobiles]

However, by and Large, they tend to miss their silly pals, who get them in to nothing but trouble, [ or is it the other way around!] Their friends get jealous if they feel the relationship is going too well for their liking.

Then of course, there are the curses/blessings of Bangkok AND Pattaya with all the trimmings, flashing lights, Disco's,money from foreigners to keep on going, and every nights a Saturday Night!

Any poster giving the advice, 'send the boy back to his village', needs his face slapped or cold water thrown in it......

Well, it worked for me Boogy!
Of course you might have to build him a house to get him to stay there....but that's another story.

And yes, I do know he's still home 'cause I can hear the chickens clucking every time I call. :bird:

[dave_tf-old]

Mine was on the bus home the day after I left him the first time. Stayed there happily until I came back and only returned to Bangkok when I went there. He was home within two days after that seperation started, easily verified because he didn't have his own mobile, having given it up to Papa. Every call started with me saying too loudly, "Hello. Khun N___?"

Part of the reason I liked him was because he accompanied his money back to Issaan when he'd amassed enough of it.

Just retuned tonight from my second trip to LOS, and thought I was wiser due to reading all posts for the past year.

However, my new friend of three days (that was paid daily) hit me up on my parting hour (surprise).

His reason for needing 3,000 baht: To buy milk for the baby.

Seems his dad is back in village taking care of his one year old daughter. He really wanted the 3,000 milk payment to be followed with 5,000 so he could take off work and go visit his daughter like a good father should. He is 24 years old and was dead serious. No sick grandmother or ailing water buffalo. Just needed Milk for baby.

And, while staying at Sansuk Guesthouse you get to know others and I became friends with an English gent traveling the scene. His new found boy of two days and one night hit him up for 3,000 for a motorcycle payment that was due. My friend has been around the block and should know better, but would you believe he did loan the boy money, and never again saw the kid. I tried not laughing and did not admit to him that I had just got pulled into a Gold Store when hormones were peaking and my short time boy is now wearing a ring (unless the pawn shop already has it). Same boy that needs Milk money.

I knew better, I am smarter, but what the hell, its just money and life is short. I would rather be there getting suckerd than to be here at home where it is well below zero and no boys.

[catawampuscat]

I like your attitude and have also been in the gold store, the motorcycle shop, the mobile phone shop, the pawn shop to retrieve
the above and still I am having the time of my life and love every minute of every day.. Except for a very few farangs, this place
really is paradise but only if you see the light and enjoy the ride.

It is going to be a long winter in Alaska, splash but at least you will have some hot memories to keep you toasty until the next trip.... :cat:

kquill: "Easily checked as well when you are phoning, just check the dialling code! Simple but effective, and insist on calling them on the Land line! Most have them or the neighbours have them, [how else do you think they stay in touch with their Mam and Dad [ because they don't usually have mobiles]"

Kevin, they might in your area, but by no means all of Thailand has individual land lines yet. There are none in my partner's village (where mobiles only work if you are in certain very specific locations!), there is one land line to one call box (which seldom works) 10kms away, and the nearest town with reliable landlines is 20kms away.

Personally, I can't see what anyone who is in a long distance relationship seriously expects the love of their life to do in their home town / village if it is in the middle of nowhere, as many are. Some are large enough for them to run a mini-mart, or some other type of small business, if you want to finance it, but many are not. Most are unlikely to want to go back to cutting sugar cane or farming rice themselves, which is exactly why they (along with the majority of their age, male and female) left in the first place, most to become labourers, etc, others to spend week on / week off selling lottery tickets. Simply sending him money, whatever the amount, and expecting him to remain sane, sober and celibate while waiting for your return is not the answer.

Unless he has completed twelve years education he will find it difficult to get a decent job (the best he will get in Big C, Lotus, etc, for example, without it is emptying the rubbish bins) and any formal technical training or further education is virtually impossible. Although there are adult education programmes in most larger towns, this does not apply to all - my partner's local school only taught up to the 6 year point, after which they could go to the next village for 3 more years, then it was a 20 km trip to town for the few who could afford the final 3 years. The school in the next village is in the process of being upgraded, but like many others this has yet to be completed.

If he has completed his school education and you want him to continue it, then it is unlikely to be in his home town / village and even if you can be sure he is attending it you have no means of knowing that his friends at "uni" or a "tech" are any better than those he made in a bar.

If he has not completed his 12 years at school the only training available is likely to be basic but technical, such as electronics or computers, or at a beauty school - neither will suit everyone, by any means.

If you are set on helping him, then look seriously at what extra options you can make available to him, where you can not only be reasonably sure he is doing what you are paying for but which can give him a better qualty of life - now and in the future.

As catawumpuscat said in this thread, miracles do sometimes happen. Even if only 1 in 100 boys with farang "sponsors" make the most of their opportunity (which is probably a very generous estimate!) that makes taking the chance that it may be yours who does so worth it (to me, at least), as long as you have done your homework.

One example I forgot to mention before was that of the department manager in one of Pattaya's best known 5 star hotels who took over the job a few months ago when he completed his training - six years ago he was working in a bar and sharing a room in Pattaya with my partner, before he was sponsored by an elderly farang who paid for his hotel and catering training at university and his basic living expenses. It was a platonic LDR (which probably means it would not be acceptable to most of those here!), which the farang could afford, but it did change that man's life totally. It can happen, fact, but equally it can be a total waste of time, money, effort and good intentions.

It is not just a choice between going back to poverty and scamming tourists.

Gone fishing,

I agree with you.

Tam lives in what most would regard as semi urban really [ otherwise I could not stand it!] We have three houses and a store to which we had built to European standards which has taken two years to do!

We are, I would say, two miles from the centre of our local town, which has a reasonable hospital, three mini marts,Krung Thai bank, food venues as well as stalls, a daily market and cashpoints around.

We also have couple of live music venues, the essential karaoke bars, and we are situated one hour from either the centre of Roi Et or Kalasin City.

Therefore, when returning home, he wasn't being sent to Siberia!

He is happy up here and always finds time to keep himself amused or busy and enjoys his pals around the area more than those he had in Pattaya and Bangkok, as he grew up and went to school with these ones.

That was also in my post to Dodger, that at the moment, all is well and lovey Dovey.

In the cold light of day, when you suddenly wake up in an environment that Gone fishing describes very well in his post, and Dodger mentions in a humorous way, with the Buffalo's, Chickens etc. believe me,the fun wears off quickly.

You have to remember, after a bad day in Pattaya or Bangkok, when you are not getting along too well and believe that all woes will be solved by relocating, they won't!

He can get along up there and does not become as agitated and fidgety as many of us do.

Eventually, the slightest thing, including their talking in their own dialect gets on your nerves, and you feel left out, longing for company to sit and chat with in your native language, with people you wouldn't give the time of day to, in Pattaya.

I have seen Foreigners up here build very nice isolated houses, with plenty of money and expensively furnished, but in the middle of nowhere, only to find the Man/Lady will not stay up there or disappears at every opportunity because they miss family and friends in the village.