host bar v. go-go bar?

I apologize if this has been addressed before on this site. I tried to search but with more than 100 pages of posts to wade through, my head exploded.

So...the question is...what is the difference, if any, between a host bar and a go-go bar? Is it a matter of one being a place with guys in underwear with numbers "dancing" and a place with guys in underwear and numbers *not* dancing?

[Dodger]

clawdaddy..you're pretty close, except the boys who work in the host bars are usually fully clothed.

Host bars are almost always open-air with an arrangement of seats sitting at the streets edge, with most of the boys dressed in street clothes and waiting on tables. Some people find this to be a more relaxed environment for meeting a boy.

Don't ever spend that amount of time searching for information...just ask and you will receive.

Are the "hosts" at the bar theoretically emplyees of the bar? i.e. do you "off" them for a fee - or are they freelancers with no payoff to the house?

[llz]

In Pattaya and Chiang Mai host bars are open-air but not in Bangkok. In Bangkok there are host bars in Saphan Kway, Sukhumwit, Silom (but very few ; only My Way comes to mind) and some other remote places like Bangkapi, Laksi and Klong Tan.

[Geezer]

Are the "hosts" at the bar theoretically emplyees of the bar? i.e. do you "off" them for a fee?

In Pattaya, yes. Maybe different in Chiang Mai.

[Dodger]

clawdaddy...

Host boys are employed by the bar and usually work for a small monthly salary plus tips. Host boys make most of their money by going "off" which is also what the bar is counting on. The term "bar fine" has it's root in this working relationship, as the boy must pay a fine to his employer for the time he is absent from work. The Bar fine (or, off fee) is usually around 300-400 baht.

It's not uncommon for a farang to link up with a host boy for longer periods of time in which case the amount of bar fine can be negotiated. In-other-words, if you wanted to off a boy from a host bar for 5 days and the daily bar fine is 400 baht (2,000 bt total), you may be able to negotiate a lower rate of about 1,500 baht. The amount of flexibility that the mamasan has during these negotiations depends largly on how busy they are and the popularity of the boy you're offing.

You tip a gogo boy and a host boy the same amount. The average tip for a short time is 1,000 baht and an overnight stay is 1,500-2,000.

The only difference between a gogo boy and a host boy is that one works in underpants and serves smiles - and the other works in blue jeans and serves drinks.

Thank you again to all who replied. I am really glad I found this forum - there are so many questions that Frommer's and Lonely Planet don't seem to anticipate!

[dab69]

I find I can only stay for a drink or two at a gogo bar. They get really old when in Pattaya with all the pressure to "off".
I find host bars more pleasurable and comfortable. You get to see what clothes they wear which may I find out more of their situation and personality. Also the fun on "christmas unwrapping"
Some bars will have movies, pool table, dining, or karaoke for entertainment

If your the thrifty sort, beware tips quoted in this thread are mostly over the norm. If your wealthy or even semi-wealthy, go ahead and be a big spender. Personally I pay well for GOOD service and keep it to a bare minimum for poor.

[dab69]

no, 1000 bT short time 1500-2000 bT for long time are no way over the norm for non stingy tourists. wouldn't even try 1000 bT for a boy from Silom.

Expatriates living on a pension or earnings there tend to get "thrifty", as they call it.

Well they are wearing more in Bangkok Go-go bars than pre Tawan Television programme. This subject like so many in Thailand seems to be almost infinitely variable. In a Go-go bar you can almost always 'off' the waiters, doorman, barman and even Mamasan though these are an additional fee due to the inconvenience of key staff departing - even five minutes before closing.

Host bars seem to vary quite a bit from the sort of place where clothing is skimpy and the boys come over and wave their thingies around to places where they all wear a shirt and a same coloured tie and sit on tiered benches, like a jury, watching television opposite. Some host bars will have a show when the staff appear wearing little or less. Most have employees but some just have local money boys attending for a small fee when they want to some call these Beer bars to differentiate between Host bar indoors or similar outdoors.

No mention in Fromers or Lonely Plant - How much missed is The Men of Thailand by Allyn and Chaiyana - out of print for 7 years or so. Here are a few extracts though I don't find them particularly accurate. It's amazing that the prices have varied so little since the book was written nearly ten years ago.

Gay Host Bars
=========
At some gay host bars, hosts wear numbered badges. The Police in that particular district require this. The number corresponds to Police records on the particular host. Since pointing at someone is taboo, the numbers function to help patrons indicate which host they would like to meet.

At gay host bars (and some pubs and saunas) patrons sit with a host and buy him a drink and, if he does not want to take the host out of the bar with him, gives him a tip for his time (customarily B100-B200). In some bars that are frequented by foreigners, hosts approach a non-Asian patron. If the patron is Asian, it is assumed that he may be Thai and the host would only join him if invited.

When a host is seated with a patron, some bars encourage a drink purchase. The host gets a small percentage of the cost of a drink (B10-B20).

In all bars, the captain or manager can arrange a match. In bars that are frequented mostly by Thai, hosts do not approach foreigners at all. Tips to the captain and waiter are customary.

Hosts can be taken "off" with a patron in which case an "off" fee is paid to the bar, usually B200-To B300.

A "Gift" between B500 to B700 is given for short term sexual services; B500 to B1000 for overnight. Hosts who work with tourists may also press for a specific amount of money depending on what activities are requested. Hosts from venues that are frequented by tourists are more demanding about money.....

...Sometimes things do not work out between patron and client. Regardless of whether or not sexual encounter has occurred, the host is customarily given a tip.....

Gay Go-Go Bars
==========
Go-Go bars have hosts some of whom go-go dance and most have stage shows. Live show mans the bar has either "sexy" shows (semi-nude or nude candle dancing, showers and simulated sex shows), big cock or masturbation shows or an actual sex show. Cabaret are lip-sync transvestite shows.

Gay Cocktail Lounge
===============
format has hosts but no go-go and some form of live musical entertainment (bands, singers) or karaoke. Hosts usually sit waiting to introduce customers.

Gay Beer Bar
========
Open air-drinking spots, called Beer Bars, are common in tourist destinations, including Pattaya, Ko Samui and Hat Yai. Although gay beer bars were common in Phuket most were converted to enclosed bars during a major renovation in Patong Beach's Paradise Complex. Usually beer bars are open all day and late into the night.People sit around a bar drinking ( not just beer ) chatting and watching the passing crowds. Usually freelancers work out of them, but several have a regular staff of hosts.

There is also stuff on Pubs/Restaurants, Saunas, Freelancers, Go betweens, Touts, Guides and Escorts

Please remember that this 7th edition was published in 1999 and probably written two or three years earlier at least.

Massage parlor, thought not a host bar, is similar to a host bar. You go in, order a drink ( 50-70 baht ) and watch the boys doing gym exercises. The boys wear a towel or a pair of shorts. Then you choose one of the boys to give you a special massage in a private room in house. If you want , you can call your dream boy over to chat before you go to the masssage room with him.

What I like about massage parlors is that it starts and finishes in there. You don't have to take the boy to your hotel room, but you can if you want.

Off fee is 500 - 700 baht includes the use of private room, condoms and lubes, use of sauna, and showers. Some massage parlors are 5 stars - both boys and the place.

Excellent description Wowpow and very useful to all who are new to the wonders of the host/gogo bar scene and also useful to those who have frequented these bars for sometime and who may not be up on the protocol.

From personal experience, I have noted that in most host bars, the boys do not get a salary from the owner. The Barman does get a salary as does the cashier, but hosts tend, in my limited experience, to work solely for tips, commission from drinks that are bought for them (20 baht 'ish), a share of the off fee (usually 50% of 200 to 300 baht if they are offed) and of course they get money from Farangs when they work for short or long time (overnight).

Personallly, if a boy sits down with me in a host bar and I have shown no interest in him and I have no desire to chat, I tend not to buy him a drink and not tip him. However, if I have asked a boy to sit or he sits and we have a good chinwag, I will buy a drink for him and also tip him (usually 100baht). It is very rare that I take a host bar boy off and so I tend to tell the boy when I first buy him a drink that if he see's another Farang who he thinks may take him, then he should make a move asap and there is no problem. The boy/host seems to appreciate this as they do not 'work it' with me and then end up pissed at me if they are not taken off. It also tends to results in better conversations rather than the boy going through the routine of going google eyes at you, telling you how handsome you are and how much he likes you.

I think that things are changing regards salary and now many bars pay the boys 100 baht a day. They get fined for lateness and non-attendance and infringing the rules. It used be that they got free food but now no food.

I was surprised to learn that in Soi Twilight - at least - the boys get Bt100 if you buy them a drink and the touts do for bringing a customer. No wonder prices have to rise.

I tend not to buy the boys a drink, especially at the bars where it is Bt200+. I give them a tip of that amount and they have yet to choose spending the money on a drink in the bar. Some bars insist that you buy a boy a drink if he sits with you but these are few though pressure can be hard. Gaycuna in Pattaya is one. Funny Boys 2 used before the present enlightened management. My thinking is that I don't mind paying the Bt200+ for a show and look at the boys but it is a silly amount to spend on a boy who can buy a bottle of Thai whiskey and some cola for the same price. Some people find it difficult to refuse and sometimes I do especially if I have no plans to off the boy or it's a boy I know and he want's a chat.

I usually ask the boy, would you like me to give you a 200 baht tip or would you like me to buy you a 200 baht drink? Funny how they NEVER want the drink.

ajarntrade

[Smiles]

This has been an excellent thread, and especially because of the long and detailed couple of posts by Ms Off-Herself (i.e. our beloved Wowpow) I nominate this topic ~ once it's heading to the bottom ~ for inclusion in the Resource Forum.
It always seems to be a "definitive" kind of topic for this Board.

There was a similar thread started on the PattayaGay Board a number of years ago, and I remember ( quite innocently actually :blackeye: ) referring in one of my replies to "Prostitute" bars, rather than "Host" or "GoGo" bars. WOW ... what a firestorm of apoplexy that started!!! (Anyone remember a poster named Pauly007? ~ or something like that). Honestly, I thought he was going to have The Big One right there on his keyboard. Too funny.

Cheers ...

I too am overwhelmed by the response to this question. I simply wanted to avoid embarrassing myself in public. (In private however, the embarrassment starts as the clothes come off...)

It has been frustrating to try to find any good printed resources on the gay scene in Thailand. The mainstream guidebooks (including Frommers which, normally, is very considerate of the GLBT traveler) for the most part sum up the entire country's gay scene in a page or less.

Granted, from my internet research, it would probably be next to impossible to print a gay guide to Thailand and have any hope for accuracy - because it seems that venues open; close; change hands; change sexualities; are sold to Arabs; are sold to Mormons; are shut down by police; are shut down by waxy buildup; go out of business after a 140 kg farang (naked from the waist down) chickenwalks past their front door - every day of the year.

It sounds like the book WowPow quoted would still be a vital tool even if it is out-of-date as far as specific venues go - simply because it seems to give excellent, no-nonsense etiquette tips for the farang on the commercial make.

I suppose I'll shell out too much money for Spartacus or Damron the next time I spot one - but I somehow doubt that they will be half as enlightening as the group assembled here.

[Dodger]

Fatman,


I have noted that in most host bars, the boys do not get a salary from the owner.

Boys who aren't on the payroll are referred to as "freelancers."