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[Brad the Impala]

Interesting comparisons JB, however I think that you are reading too much into your experience of one Thai Family, as they may not be representative of most others.

When my boyfriend(Southern Thai) goes home his mother is so warm and happy to see him. And when we meet up with other family members they are the same.

He has helped his mum from time to time, but so have other family members. We have also helped his orphaned neice through college, but other family members have assisted as well. She has just graduated and got her first good job, and we are very proud of her(like our daughter)

OK, before I start and before I get jumped on for posting in the wrong forum, this is a view point of mine about the differences between Thai and Lao culture and family dynamics. Some may find interesting, some may not! I have posted it here as it is about being gay, and being in Thailand as well as Laos.

Firstly let me state that I had a Thai bf for nearly 4 years and he was the reason for me coming to live in Thailand. I got to know his family well over this period and visited the Buriram home fairly often. I was always amazed at the lack of affection shown by the mother at the return of her son, and at the son on meeting the mother and siblings after being away for 3 or 4 months. It was as though he had just returned after being out shopping. I was told that it was the culture. I accepted that. I used also get angry that my bf, who was working, was expected to support the mother and lazy non-working brothers when he returned and monthly by sending money back. Why should he have to do it when there were 6 brothers who were either not working at all, or working but not contributing to mother in any way? Again I was told because he had a good job that paid well he must do it. The non working brothers, what did they do? No answer. It is the Thai way I was told.

I thought it would be the same throughout SE Asia, and know it to be the same in Cambodia and expected the other nieghbouring countries to be the same.

Anyhow, that was in the past, now today. I have been with my present bf for 10 months now and he is living with me virtually full time. He is from Vientiane Laos. I have just come back from a trip up there as he has just graduated as an under graduate and was awarded a diploma in a special ceremony. So I went back with him, and I drove up. So this time I had a car. This enabled us to visit more family than we have before and I found the experience an eye opener.

From the day we arrived I was surprised at the different attidude he had to his family and them to him. When we arrived he walked in un-announced at his mothers work place. He crept up behind her and through his arms around her to surprize her. She was beaming at the return of her son. This was more like it. He explained to me that Lao were not like Thai and the way the treat family. I could see. We went out in the evening to his mothers house and 2 of his sisters were there with their children. He was very affectionate with the kids, kissing and hugging them and telling them off if they were naughty. There was banter between the sisters, him and his mother. Laughing, joking, shouting. Normal family stuff.

This went on throughout the visit. When we went to his other sisters house for dinner the same type of behaviour. He told me that he isn't expected to send money home to his family, again saying "I am not Thai". In the Lao language they don't have the word "Pi" for older person, brother sisiter, or "nong" for younger person etc. They just refer to each other by their name. When we were in the car one evening he said something cheeky to his mum, she jokingly start to try to hit his mouth for being cheeky. I could go on, but I won't at the risk of boring people, but you get my drift?

I found the whole experience refreshing and uplifting. The family dynamics were more that of a western family than a Thai family, and that surprised me. For me I much prefer this style. The Thai way is not for me. Thats my opinion maybe not everyones. I had never seen this type of interaction in the 4 years of knowing my Thai bf's family.

While looking inside, Laos and Thai people are worlds apart. Lao are often poor but there not any single reason for looking down on Lao, as the Thai people usually do. And Lao do understand Thai, but Thai will not understand Lao! There is not just the language barrier

you are full of ****. All these cultural differences are a load of rubbish. Thailand and Laos are border countries, fundamentals are the same - the only reason locals are being nice is because you have a golden wallet or they think you have. Generally speaking, in any country people are nice, especially the ones with no money i.e. the country folk - in any country - its only when they start climbing the ladder of success and have a wealth of experience you start seeing the difference in their attitude - a Laos government official or high ranking business man wouldn't look at you once, let alone twice. That goes for western countries an all. You guys ought to get real.

you are full of ****. All these cultural differences are a load of rubbish. Thailand and Laos are border countries, fundamentals are the same - the only reason locals are being nice is because you have a golden wallet or they think you have. Generally speaking, in any country people are nice, especially the ones with no money i.e. the country folk - in any country - its only when they start climbing the ladder of success and have a wealth of experience you start seeing the difference in their attitude - a Laos government official or high ranking business man wouldn't look at you once, let alone twice. That goes for western countries an all. You guys ought to get real.

LOL..considering your thread on some, poor silly c**t on death row in USA..........I think it YOU who needs to "GET REAL!"

[Smiles]

Generally agree with some of the guys on this thread, that there is a lot more differentiation between individual familes on how they interact together, than behavior that is 'cultural' or ingrained to the point of not being able to act in any other way.

I say that only because of a reasonably long experience with my guy's family in Surin (farmers, poor but not destitute, Lao/Khymer family history).

The joy when he comes home (the homecomings I've witnessed that is, and there have been quite a few) is quite grand, and the love between mother and son is hardly below the surface (I do believe he's the 'favourite' son). Not more than 10 minutes after we've arrived, the dust from approaching motorcycles & pickup trucks can be seen and the 2 brothers and 3 sisters who live in the village converge on the place. There is what I would say was a relatively short-lived physical greeting (hugs, hand-holding, that sort of thing), but then the yapping starts . . . all talking at once, all sitting in the backyard eating, all going on about I know not what. Lots of laughter and joking and catching up, and I'm sure, lots of village gossip. Lots of spontaneous, rather shy-like, hand-holding which can last for 15 minutes of so . . . long after our own western cultural innards begin to whisper "uncomfortable". Not a cold greeting party by any means.
I sit kind of off to the side and take it all in, but I'm not really part of it all.

The only member of the family I would characterize as quiet and somewhat standoffish (and very restrained physically) would be Pot's Father. It's acutely obvious that all the brothers and sisters glom on to the Mother above all . . . there is family history with the father of alcoholism, gambling land losses etc etc which I guess are just below the surface. He's also very shy, which doesn't help . . . a direct opposite of his gregarious and very warm wife. I don't mean to imply that he's shunned or suchlike, just that there seems to be a vague ~ not mean ~ coolness reserved for him. Or perhaps he was never a 'warm' father all their lives. I don't think that would be uncommon in bringing up a large family on a hard-scrabble day to day existence in up country Isaan.

But this of course is only one family . . . and I'm sure that ~ like here at home ~ the experiences of family interaction is very wide and varied dynamic indeed. I don't disagree that there is certainly a cultural component guiding unseen the complexities of family life, but I do think that, as well, a lot depends on the individuals within it to define their 'warmth' level on any given occasion.

Cheers ...

But this of course is only one family . . . and I'm sure that ~ like here at home ~ the experiences of family interaction is very wide and varied dynamic indeed. I don't disagree that there is certainly a cultural component guiding unseen the complexities of family life, but I do think that, as well, a lot depends on the individuals within it to define their 'warmth' level on any given occasion.

Fully agree. There are cultural differences but usually a lot of individual differences on top of that.

Talking about distant fathers, I was once in Phisanulok for a day or two and somehow found myself talking to a young man. It was nice encountering someone who could speak English in that town, so we basically spent a day together, with him showing me what tourist sights there were, none of which I now remember (they were that memorable!). He told me that he had graduated from a Bkk university just a month earlier and was back visiting his family for a week before having to go back to the big city to start his new job. He was unlikely to get annual leave for the first 12 months in the job, so he didn't expect to be able to come back again except, with luck, during songkran which was more than 9 months away.

We got on well enough that we arranged to co-ordinate our bus journeys back to Bkk for 2 days later (OK, I confess, my hoping to lay him in Bkk had something to do with it :evil2: )

On departure day, at the bus station, his family members were all there to say goodbye. While waiting for the bus, his mother, sisters, and older brother continued to engage in banter, and often joked with him... saying what, I didn't understand. But they seemed a happy family. His father, however, remained relatively quiet, sitting at a slight distance and just looking on at his family. Typical distant father, I thought. When the bus was ready to leave, the young man greeted all his family members leaving the father for last. He then walked up to his father and said something, in a fashion that was almost formal, and which my intuition told me was something like, "Father, I am leaving now." Wow, what a patriarchal custom, I thought. The father got up slowly from the bench, kissed him on his cheeks, hugged him for maybe 3 long minutes, and cried.

[Bob]

Making generalizations about all or most Thai or Lao families is probably a bit silly. But, JB, I have noticed the same interaction (or lack thereof) between sons and parents on various visits.

I've visited my Chiangmai bf's home three times and each time I've been amazed that, while the relationship seems to be good, there really isn't any outward expression of emotion when all of a sudden (without prior notice) the son shows up every couple of months. And even more amazing to me is that, when he's ready to leave, he just leaves - without ever so much as a "see ya."

A week ago, I was again up visiting the family in a small village about 14 kilometers from Mae Chan (just north of Chiangrai) and the only difference this time is that, when we were leaving, I insisted that he go tell his mother goodbye (which, to my surprise, he actually did....and I received no lecture about it afterwards!). I probably shouldn't have pushed the point but, since I made the effort to say goodbye to her and the stepfather, I thought he ought to do the same.

And I've seen another thai boy react the same way to his parents in Udon Thani. I'm not saying all thai kids (in both of these cases, the "kids" were 27-28 years old) act this way but seeing it the few times I have was a surprise to me. I believe they think it's just normal behavior.

[dab69]

you are full of ****. All these cultural differences are a load of rubbish. Thailand and Laos are border countries, fundamentals are the same - the only reason locals are being nice is because you have a golden wallet or they think you have. Generally speaking, in any country people are nice, especially the ones with no money i.e. the country folk - in any country - its only when they start climbing the ladder of success and have a wealth of experience you start seeing the difference in their attitude - a Laos government official or high ranking business man wouldn't look at you once, let alone twice. That goes for western countries an all. You guys ought to get real.

doesn't even sound like he bothered to read your threads, being so off topic

[thaiguest]

you are full of ****. All these cultural differences are a load of rubbish. Thailand and Laos are border countries, fundamentals are the same - the only reason locals are being nice is because you have a golden wallet or they think you have. Generally speaking, in any country people are nice, especially the ones with no money i.e. the country folk - in any country - its only when they start climbing the ladder of success and have a wealth of experience you start seeing the difference in their attitude - a Laos government official or high ranking business man wouldn't look at you once, let alone twice. That goes for western countries an all. You guys ought to get real.

I too was surprised by the difference in the way i was treated by 'the country folk' near Udon Thani when I made 2 visits with a local boy i met in Pattaya.
The reaction of the family and the local community was the opposite to that described by 'White Desire' above. I was surprised to find the people polite but pointedly independent and reserved and they certainly made no effort to enquire into the financial health of my wallet. I brought some welcome gifts (scotch for Pappa etc) which they graciously accepted, but then in turn they laid on food, showed me around the farm, gave me a comfortable bed, etc.
I had half expected these country people to be somewhat in awe of my greater spending power but I went away convinced that they couldn't care less.

[Dick]

How does your Thai boyfriend greet you after some time apart? Hugs and Kisses, or a mere 'Hi' Chances are it'll be hugs and kisses, but in private. Seems strange JB that such affection should only be reserved for his bf and denied with the family - so I suspect the lack of affection is peculiar to his lazy household.

My own experience is similar to others when at the family home. Not overly physical, but warm and friendly, much as Smiles account. The bf would dote on his 2yr old nephew (ugly child) - he got more attention than me!

I doubt White Desire properly read the opening post. If he had I'm sure his comments would have been more in character.

I was surprised to find the people polite but pointedly independent and reserved and they certainly made no effort to enquire into the financial health of my wallet. I brought some welcome gifts (scotch for Pappa etc) which they graciously accepted, but then in turn they laid on food, showed me around the farm, gave me a comfortable bed, etc.
I had half expected these country people to be somewhat in awe of my greater spending power but I went away convinced that they couldn't care less.

This was my point, you must be awfully naive if you can't distinguish. They know you are a rich kid (in their eyes), of course they are going to put on graces to you in the hope that one day you will reward them. To put that in perspective, they know what they are doing!!

[Bob]

Big difference in doting on the very young children, all Thais do that based on what I've seen. Very affectionate and very playful.
What surprised me once was waiting with a thai friend at the Udon Thani airport. Another family with a cute little kid (maybe 1 or so) came and sat near us and, without so much as a look toward the other parents, my friend picked up the toddler and started bouncing him around, tickling him, swinging him around, etc. His parents were absolutely enjoying the interaction. I've seen this elsewhere in Thailand and it always amazes me how natural it seems and that the parent or parents of the child express nothing but joy over it. Of course, nothing like that ever happens in the west amongst people who don't know each other.

How sad must life be thinking that people show kindness only when coveting your cash.

Big difference in doting on the very young childrenYes, Hitler was said to be very fond of small children and dogs. He was also a great conservationist, so it's no accident that the first Green Party was formed in Germany. Stalin also suffered from the same debilitating condition (fondness for children). Me, I'm a member of the Friends of Herod

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[dave_tf-old]

Never Mind White Desire. He's on his way to making his first million and believes everybody is as fascinated by money as he is.

Both times I've visited 'home' my friend had already been there a while, so there was no homecoming to observe. But I found the extended family dynamic to be quite warm. With me there, it was maybe amped up a little with more visitors than they might have been used to on a normal day. Like Smiles, I didn't really find myself fitting in, but neither was I left out. They certainly did as well interacting through the language barrier as I did. I had quite a good time, actually. The guitar helped.

I think your ex's pronouncement that this was 'the Thai way' may have had more to do with giving you a quick answer than any serious revelation of culture. It's not always boys from the happiest of families who migrate to Pattaya, I'm certain of that.

It may be that your current simply has a better family and that the Lao are on average warmer people. It's also possible that Thai reserve bubbled up more than it might have with you there observing...the act of observing changes the outcome of the experiment.

Sounds like you are in a better place. I'm glad for you.

Big difference in doting on the very young childrenYes, Hitler was said to be very fond of small children and dogs. He was also a great conservationist, so it's no accident that the first Green Party was formed in Germany. Stalin also suffered from the same debilitating condition (fondness for children). Me, I'm a member of the Friends of Herod

Cruel logic!

Hitler liked one dog only; it was a german shepard which he called Wolf.

Hitler didn't liked children at all except for PR reasons. He accepted occationally the company of pffsprings from his fellow criminals, especially from Goering.

The principals of Green Parties including there formation in Germany where are truth and peace which leads to respect of nature, environments and tolerance.

This modern concept had been introduced by Mahatma Ghandi during the late 1940 in India and was adapted later especially with growing world wide opposition regarding illegal US activities in SE and E Asia.

Herod “the Great,” king of Judea, was indeed unpopular. He was an insecure and fearful person but a tyrant capable of extreme brutality. Herod killed his wife, his brother and his sister’s two husbands, amongst others.

[catawampuscat]

I applaud John Botting for taking a chance with some personal info and opening up an interesting topic.
Actually, anything is an improvement to the endless bickering with one or two other posters but
seriously, it is enlighting for most of us to see that different cultures approach life in different ways.

No doubt, poverty, religion, class structure, education all contribute and I wonder if the presence of an elderly farang
changes the family dynamics or if it would be the same without the farang/patron in attendance.

I attended a funeral for a Thai guy and I was the only one who cried. All present were sad and experiencing grief as
this beautiful young man ended his own life but I was told that tears were considered a barrier to the passage of the dead man's
spirit and it was not customary to weap and cry at funerals. I accepted this and appreciate that there are different ways to
express deep emotions than most of us are used to.

I wanted to have my regular guy (bf, boyspecial, boygod all sound wrong to me) do some grooming on my golden locks and tresses but he said it wasn't good to cut hair on Wednesdays. I have heard this before and he believes it , just the way he believes in ghosts and spirits. Maybe is right... :cat:

[krobbie]

Yes, many of the barbers were closed on a Wednesday in Phuket and now I know why. Unless I find out it's just bullshit of course. I'm such a sap for this kind of thing.

:cyclopsani:

krobbie

[Brad the Impala]

It's not always boys from the happiest of families who migrate to Pattaya, I'm certain of that.



That's a good point.

[alipatt-old]

Spoke to my Thai partner about this thread and if he felt it was correct.

He agreed that the Laos people were more demonstrative than the Thai and went further to say that the area he was from - central was again different than Isan were there seems to be more family closness expressed.

He tells me that the family do care for each other but it is not shown.
I have seen a similar response to our arrival after 9 months to Thailand and apart from the family all ariving at the airport and the sawasdee that took place it could have been a day in between trips. - I disgrase him he feels by hugging his mum - no one else minds.

Many Thais believe it is bad luck to cut their hair or fingernails on the weekday of their birth. That is, born on a Wednesday, can't cut hair on Wednesday.

[TrongpaiExpat]

I just got back from spending a week in Nong Khai Province, my 4th trip to this region and I still don't quite understand how they feel about the Lao people just across the Maekong, the northern boundary of the Province.

My BF is from So Phisai about 1 1/2 hour out of the city of Nong Khai. He and no one is his family have ever ventured into Lao. They essentially speak Lao, Though not exactly as spoken in Lao, and they know that but have absolutely no idea historically why and don't care. They are Thai, the schools told them they are Thai even though they enter school speaking Lao. Lao is Communist and therefore bad is all they seem to know. The Lao are to be looked down on as inferiors.

I kept looking at the other side of the river, no development and just the occasional vehicle. I wondered what life was like over there? I watched the odd vehicle moving along. The Thais of the province don't look across the river, don't ask questions and don't wonder why. The Thai education system has done a very good job in brain washing the populations into being a good Thai citizen who does not ask questions.

In regard to the display of affection I have been told that it's not their way to hug and make a big deal about arriving or departing. They do show a lot of affection to their children and it's not just the women doing all the child care, I saw a lot of caring fathers.

The Lao had Western influences (France and latter USA) that must have influenced their culture in some different ways from those in Thailand.

[Bob]

The dialect spoken in Isaan is a variant of Lao, and is closer to the Lao language than to Thai.

That could be true, I don't know, but I know my bf (born and raised near Chiangrai) didn't seem to have much trouble talking to Laotians when we spent a few days in Luang Prabang. He said he was a bit surprised that the languages (thai and lao) were so similar. I would suspect that the language spoken in Chiangmai, Luang Prabang, and Isaan are all variants of each other given they live within a few hundred miles of each other.
Not too different from Germany, for example, 100 years ago - towns 25 miles apart spoke different dialects.

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[TrongpaiExpat]

As for wondering what life is like "over there" why don't you get over there to sample it?

The BF and I flew into Louangphabang a few years ago and after a few days there took the long bus ride Vientiane. I loved the trip the BF hated every minute of it. He could not get over the bridge and into Thailand quick enough.

By "over there", I mean that area of Lao south of Vientiane. I see on a map there is a road, hwy. 13 the runs along the Maekhong with a few towns on the map. I have been to most of the small towns on the Thai side and see the stark contrast on the other side. I can see a distant mountain range on the Lao(s) side.

I know that at night boats from Lao(s) cross the river with black market whiskey and cigarettes.

I also noticed left over boarder military facilities when there was fear that the Viet/Lao(s) war was going to spill over into Thailand and an ensuing refugee influx was feared.

I was in the Thai town of Pon Phisai for the Bonfai Phayanak Festival and on the Thai side there was a huge party, lights, fireworks and lots of people. On the Lao(s) side, just a few lights and an occasional flash of light from a firecracker. In Lao they have the same festival, same origins but never capitalized on it with organized tours, parties and events.

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[TrongpaiExpat]

BTW If anyone wishes to drive their Thai car into Laos please let me know I am now the expert!!! It is relatively easy and inexpensive. Someone here told me not to do it as it cost 10,000 Baht to take your car across the board. Absolutely not!

OK, so tell us.

They drive on the right side of the road? You can drive with a Thai car with the steering wheel on the right but drive on the left?

Not sure I want to do that. Can I get a car in Lao with left side steering?

Is a Thai DL valid in Laos?

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Indeed, the name of the country/people does trip up many foreigners.

The country name Laos, pronounced "Lah-oss" or "Lay-oss" is apparently very recent. For centuries, the place was better known as "the country of the Lao(s)", where the word "Lao" referred strictly to the people. It follows the Thai usage "Prathet Lao" and the French usage "Le Pays Lao". Hence, "Laos" was originally no more than a plural form of Lao, not the name of the country. There was the custom of using the plural because for a long time, the Lao monarchy wasn't in full control, and it was valid to see the country as a place with a number of autonomous Lao principalities/communities.

Today, the proper name is "The Lao Republic".

The absence of a proper country name is kind of like the way we trip over Czech / Czech Republic. I lately see people tyring to solve this problem by inventing a new name Czechia for the country.

Indeed, the name of the country/people does trip up many foreigners.

The country name Laos, pronounced "Lah-oss" or "Lay-oss" is apparently very recent. For centuries, the place was better known as "the country of the Lao(s)", where the word "Lao" referred strictly to the people. It follows the Thai usage "Prathet Lao" and the French usage "Le Pays Lao". Hence, "Laos" was originally no more than a plural form of Lao, not the name of the country. There was the custom of using the plural because for a long time, the Lao monarchy wasn't in full control, and it was valid to see the country as a place with a number of autonomous Lao principalities/communities.

Today, the proper name is "The Lao Republic".

The official name is: "Sathalanalat Paxathipatai Paxax├┤n Lao" or "Lao People's Democratic Republic"
Shortened Lao P.D.R is Not Lao Please Don't Rush! [/color]

The absence of a proper country name is kind of like the way we trip over Czech / Czech Republic. I lately see people tyring to solve this problem by inventing a new name Czechia for the country.

Laos or Lao P.D.R is a proper country name.

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Sorry, Botting, but you are the one who is wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laos

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[quote="Gomez Fong":3jpegzzt]Sorry, Botting, but you are the one who is wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laos

Well hush my mouth, I put in an extra "s" Talk about nit-picking?[/quote:3jpegzzt]

It would have hardly been worth mentioning except that you've been going around correcting everyone like an old school marm.

Another sacred cow gets it right in the ass!
And they keep coming right back for more.