3m Baht Investment Visa Not Fully Grandfathered ! OUCH!!

[travelerjim]

Thaivisa.com has sent an e-mail regarding:

3m Baht Investment Visa Not Fully Grandfathered

A poster stated:

"I have just returned from attempting to extend my permission to stay for another year,
based on owning a condo worth more than 3M baht.

As everyone probably knows, this was abolished for new applicants last year and intially it was stated
that existing aliens in this category would also not be given any further extensions.
However, after a lot of panic, this was changed and existing users were "grandfathered" in.
Subsequently, I extended my permission to stay by one year.

Today, I was not expecting any trouble, but I was refused an extension.
I was told that the law has changed and that they no longer consider the price you paid for the condo,
but instead look at a price which is assessed by the government.

On my receipt from the Land Registry these figures are given as ราคาทุนทรัพย์ 3,500,000 and ราคาประเมิน 2,270,000.
Effectively, they now consider that my investment is 730,000 baht too low.

If I put this amount in a bank account, they would give me permission to stay
(initially they said I would have to put 3M baht in a bank account, but then one of them
produced a procedural manual and decided that the investment does not have to be in one unit).

They emphasised that this amount would have to stay permanently in the bank, and produced a letter in English to this effect.

I pointed out, and they agreed, that I have had four previous extensions granted on this basis
but they stated again that "Immigration has changed the law" (this was said in English, twice).

Needless to say, I do not have a spare 730,000 baht which I can put in a bank
and not touch for ever, so I now have 26 days left in Thailand to sort this out.

Has anyone encountered this problem or does anyone have any ideas?

discussion and replies follow...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php ... pic=142191 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=142191)

Hopefully our board members will not face this situation...
but IF you are in same-same situation...regarding using an INVESTMENT VISA
it may be best you read the replies in the cominfg days...
...and a solution - if any???

TIT - This IS Thailand!

TravelerJim

What category??

[travelerjim]

What category??

I have a Non-Immigrant "O" Visa with a one year extension -
also known as a Retirement Visa...I am over 50 years of age.

The Retirement Visa is available for those 50+ years of age
with several requirements.

In past, an Investment Visa was available for those over AND "under 50"
who invested at least 3 Million Baht in Thailand...
and the purchase of a Condo valued at 3 Million Baht or more was OK...
and an Investment Visa was issued to the applicant.

However, it appears the rules are changing...and those holding the
Investment Visa based on 3 Million Baht invested in Thailand may
have new rules to qualify under...
see the thaivisa.com posting link above for more updates.

This is Thailand...TIT...and all is subject to change!

TravelerJim

[TrongpaiExpat]

However, it appears the rules are changing...

Yea, every few months now it seems, something changes.

I just spoke to some one the renewed his O-A vias (retirement) in Bangkok and he knew of the new requirement about drawing a map to where you live. He showed up with a nice color photo copy of a published map and X in red marked his residence.
Nope, you "draw" a map.

... there was none better than boygeenyus. Bring back The Lad, I say. And I'm looking forward to hearing from those who believe property investment, even in Thailand, is a Good Thing because as we all know, property never loses its value and keeps place with inflation

I'm beginning to think that ever since the Coup the Temple Monkeys from Lopburi have been running the country.

That's the only logical reason for all this "monkeying" around with the rules. :munky2: :munky2: :munky2: :munky2:

[Bob]

I'm beginning to think that ever since the Coup the Temple Monkeys from Lopburi have been running the country.


Be careful, kenc, there are libel laws in Thailand and I think the temple monkeys (Khun Ling Ling) may have a good case against you for comparing them to the coup makers and present government.

I know you like to appear to be the first with the dramatic headlines, but I think you have got this one wrong. There is not a change in the law, just the correct application of the existing law. It all stems from the fiddle some people use to avoid paying tax. Grandfathering (or the lack of it) doesn't come into it.

Read this post from the samer thread.


I just renewed my Investment Visa this week. Relatively painless - just a 90 minute wait in the ticket queue at immigration.

The lady checked my TT3 AND Land Registry documents were correct and over the legal 3m baht requirement.

If, to avoid tax, someone enters into a side-deal to show a property was purchased for less than the Investment Visa's legally required amount on the Land Registry document, whose fault is that? Immigrations? I think not.



Some of the recent threads on TV.com that have stirred up vitriolic comments appear to be all based on flyers or rumpurs, no hard facts in there to substantiate.

[TrongpaiExpat]

And I'm looking forward to hearing from those who believe property investment, even in Thailand, is a Good Thing because as we all know, property never loses its value and keeps place with inflation

Hello?
And, the room goes mute.

I own a property in USA that this year has lost 20 to30% of it selling price from last year.

[travelerjim]

I know you like to appear to be the first with the dramatic headlines, but I think you have got this one wrong. There is not a change in the law, just the correct application of the existing law. It all stems from the fiddle some people use to avoid paying tax. Grandfathering (or the lack of it) doesn't come into it.

The lady checked my TT3 AND Land Registry documents were correct and over the legal 3m baht requirement.

If, to avoid tax, someone enters into a side-deal to show a property was purchased for less than the Investment Visa's legally required amount on the Land Registry document, whose fault is that? Immigrations? I think not.



Some of the recent threads on TV.com that have stirred up vitriolic comments appear to be all based on flyers or rumpurs, no hard facts in there to substantiate.[/quote]

gwm4asian...

The purpose for posting the thread is to alert anyone who may have an Inverstment Visa ...
the 3 Million Baht type (no longer issued) of the pitfalls possible in its renewal...as you have noted.

Here is the OP followup comment:

To answer some of the points raised:

"The purchase did not, as far as I know, involve any tax fiddles!
I had to go to the land registry with one of the staff from the company that was selling the condos
(they had been managing the whole block as serviced apartments) and hand over my cheque for 3.5M baht
to the staff member. The land registry took a copy of it and the receipt issued by the land registry clearly shows this figure.

From my OP: "On my receipt from the Land Registry these figures are given as ราคาทุนทรัพย์ 3,500,000 and ราคาประเมิน 2,270,000"."

Indeed, I think the buyer may have been duped by the seller's reps.
Lower valuation means lower transfer tax.

Which means we need to be careful when purchasing property in Thailand
as unforeseen problems can appear later - after the closing - when selling later.

TravelerJim

[allieb]

I own a property in USA that this year has lost 20 to30% of it selling price from last year.

Property has never been a short term investment anywhere in the world. I bought a property in the UK 18 years ago. Two years later it was worth 25% less than I paid for it. Now it is worth 4 times what I paid for it and still rising. My only regret is that I didn't wait and buy it at its low. Nobody can predict a downturn in property value but in the long term its always the best investment. even in Thailand.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Property has never been a short term investment anywhere in the world

Yes, I agree but (no offense intended) take a look around at the age and shape of the average farang at Jomtiem and tell me that they have a long term option.

[Sen Yai]

I bought a property in the UK 18 years ago. .... Now it is worth 4 times what I paid for it and still rising.

That's just 8.5% per annum. OK, but nothing spectacular.

[Marsilius]

Plus - the housing market in the UK is not a typical one.

The UK has a huge shortage of new houses at present, so it would take a great deal for housing prices to collapse.

Look, on the contrary, at all the vacant properties in Thailand, many built speculatively or with the proceeds of laundered money and so changing hands at relatively cheap prices.

[jinks]

I bought a property in the UK 18 years ago. .... Now it is worth 4 times what I paid for it and still rising.


I bought mine 25 years ago and its appreciated 40+ fold.

That's 3k then 135k now !

Sen Yai - What is that as a percentage ?

[Sen Yai]

I bought mine 25 years ago and its appreciated 40+ fold.

That's 3k then 135k now !

Sen Yai - What is that as a percentage ?

17.2% per annum Mr jinks - not bad!

[billyhouston]

I bought mine 25 years ago and its appreciated 40+ fold.

That's 3k then 135k now !

Sen Yai - What is that as a percentage ?

17.2% per annum Mr jinks - not bad!

'fraid not, 16.45% actually. (The earlier figure should have been 8.01% not 8.5%)

Still, close enough. :bom:

... in Thailand it would either have fallen down or be in a thoroughly decrepit state - like some of our members in Jomtien?

[allieb]

Property has never been a short term investment anywhere in the world

Yes, I agree but (no offense intended) take a look around at the age and shape of the average farang at Jomtiem and tell me that they have a long term option.

No offense taken,but the people in this category would be more suited to rent and have a spend up now while they are still able to enjoy it instead of leaving assets to someone else to blow after they're dead.

Sen yai 8.5 % is nothing spectacular indeed but a lot better than leaving the cash in the bank. In Thailand the banking system seems to make up the rules as it goes along everything is always unclear. The original poster was posed with leaving a sum of money in the bank untouched. ( most expats in jomtien stay until they are either broke or go home in a box) That money sitting in the bank will earn little or nothing

Re buying property in Thailand
I looked at an apartment in LOS 3 years ago and hesitated. In that same complex an apartment has just sold recently for 50 % more.