For Travellers on Northwest Airlines

[Doug]

From The Advocate:

"After gay Northwest Airlines employee Rob Anders won a pair of tickets at a company holiday party, he planned to use the tickets to fly himself and his partner of 15 years from California to Florida to visit his 89-year-old mother for a family reunion last month. But airline officials told him he could not use the other ticket for his partner because the two were not married. "I felt terrible," Anders said. "I thought what they were doing was unfair."

Link: http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid25366.asp

Is the implication that we should not travel on NW because some queen couldn't take his boyfriend on a free plane trip?

I can think of about 100 reasons I wouldn't want to fly on NW, but this wouldn't be among them. Terrible service, dirty planes, poor food, and uncomfortable seats would be near the top.

I did several RTW trips in biz with NWA/Thai during the 1980s. I have been a FF (take that smirk off your face at the back) on both their programme and since returning to Europe, KLMs.

This is sufficient reason for me to decide not to fly them or KLM while NWA practise discrimination against gays in this ways.

Holland used to be the world's most liberal country wrt same-sex relationships. I don't think their national flag carrier should be "in bed with" companies that behave this way.

[Smiles]

. . . because I wonder whether this kerfuffle has more to do with bureaucratic rules, and bureaucrats sticking to the letter of their bureaucatic rules, rather than homophobia?

When the airline states ...
" ... Northwest Airlines told Anders that the airline would recognize only a spouse, another airline employee, or a dependent child as a companion. The representative specifically stated Northwest Airlines would not recognize a registered domestic partner as a spouse for the purpose of the tickets ..."
... it seems that their rules about this perk offer seats to couple who are legally married ... only.

Nothing in the article indicates being homo or hetero has/was a bearing on who or who doesn't receive the perk.

Mr Anders said ...
" ... I felt terrible. I thought what they were doing was unfair ..."
... personally I take whiny statements like this with a very large dash of salt. Sounds more like setting the stage for a possible law suit than aggrievment over being discriminated against for being gay.

I'm not suggesting this NWA policy is non-discriminatory ... it is definitely discriminatory, and quite the throwback to another time to boot.
But it doesn't sound like homophobia to me either: Just bloody bureacrats being bloody bureaucratically-minded. Too common.


Cheers ...

[Doug]

If an employee won who was not married, what would his options be? Only take another employee? Don't employees get free trips anyway? It seems very strange to me.

[Smiles]

If an employee won who was not married, what would his options be? Only take another employee? Don't employees get free trips anyway? It seems very strange to me.
" ... another airline employee, or a dependent child as a companion ... "


Seems clear to me, right there in black & white.

Doug, my point is not that it's necessarily fair or good policy, or that I agree or disagree with it ... only that it's not necessarily homophobia.
Neither does it seem necessarily strange to me ... just unthoughtful.

Cheers ...

Well, I don't think an airline should be judging whether a companion is "suitable" or not. One should be able to make his companion of choice. It sounds like a lousy deal to me and I will certainly consider this as a reason NOT to travel NW/KLM in the future.

...take a look at: http://www.independenttraveler.com/reso ... ategory=13 (http://www.independenttraveler.com/resources/article.cfm?AID=612&category=13)

(I wish that link also included any reply from NWA to Mr. Hewitt.)

I have always flown NW across the Atlantic a few times a year, every year. It now uses new airbus A320. Each seat has personal TV with choices of films and music. Food in Economy class, I totally agree, has always been horrid. And because I know the food will always be horrid, I usually dine at a restaurant in the airport before boarding the flight.

Anyway, on one Christmas day my male companion and I traveled on NW from London to Miami. As we waited in the queue, an agent who came round and asked about security questions gave me a letter from NW. The letter was addressed to me personally, and said something like "As a gesture of goodwill to our loyal customers like yourself, we are happy to upgrade you and your companion on this flight...". We both were upgraded all the way from London to Miami. We were very impressed. I was a NW's platinum member, my companion was a KLM's silver member at that time.

Well whoopty fucking do!

I would take almost any airline transpacific over NW. Cathay Pacific, Singapore, Continental and Thai for god-damned sure, but also the likes of EVA, China Airlines, Korean, Malaysian. Even United inches it out by a nose in terms of awfulness. And I think you will find that just about every poll that's been taken agrees with me.

[catawampuscat]

I used to take NW all the time and got upgraded on occassion and it was whoop dee doo...My last trip from the USA was on Japan Air from Tokyo to BKK and the seats seemed even tighter than on the always full NW flight..The staff was more pleasant and the food better but I think the seat was tighter.. It was a full flight as well... I have a return flight on Cathy and hope it will be more comfortable...

[cottmann]

... I have a return flight on Cathy and hope it will be more comfortable...

What was that book about airline stewardesses? "Coffee, tea or me?" Obviously this airline takes that to heart - or wherever!

[thrillbill]

-- Even if the winner wasn't gay, it is still unfair to think that a straight unmarried couple wouldn't be able to use the ticket...not every straight person is married. It was just a way for another way for cooperate America to worm their way out of a commitment.

For airliners, (since I fly economy) I stay away from ANY US airline company because: 1) the planes are old compared to most good international airlines 2) the flight attendants are bitchy and are ready for retirement. My friends laugh at me but I find China Airlines (out of Taiwan) decent... they fly new747's; more leg room than NW; the flight attendants are polite; and you have your own movie screen (and the price is right). True, the food is the pits, but I don't fly expecting to have the best meal... and unfortunately the stop over in Taipai has to be in one of the most boring, sterile airports I've had ever been in.

and unfortunately the stop over in Taipai has to be in one of the most boring, sterile airports I've had ever been in.

Well, the airport in Anchorage is much worse, and a few years ago, at least, the China flight from NY to Taipei stopped there in the middle of the night for four hours (without telling you at reservations or on your ticket). You were made to deplane into a 'lounge' with chairs of the typical American neo-corpo-fascist design, that is you could not lay across on them; and if you were to plop your head on your hand luggage and drift into a half sleep on the floor there was an airport employee to KICK you and TELL you "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT, SIR". "Well then get me arrested, BITCH". The beast even tried to get me to unplug my re-charging laptop "THAT'S ONLY FOR AIRPORT MAINTENANCE USE, SIR". Did u ever land in Anchorage during a blizzard? It is an 'awakening' experience. Come to think of it the Taipei airport is much like the Anchorage airport, without the blizzardly view across an expanse of an icy wasteland, or a carpet. And while boarding and connecting in Taipei I was MADE, rather rudely, in fact, to cut down to one carry-on, requiring me to rearrange things suddenly. I have NEVER had that happen on another long-haul or connecting flight. Yes, I forgot to put my reading glasses into my laptop bag and so for the segment that I could not sleep on I could not do much of anything else. There was ample space for everyone to have two carryons on that TPE/BKK flight and I was advised by another passenger that the quite unnecessary 'one carry-on' rule was in line with little other than a CA corporate policy to make sure that each passenger had at least one hand available for a duty free purchase. Flights west over the Pacific seem to drag on endlessly anyway but I must say I was never happier to get off in BKK as after this trip back.

Everyone I know from Bangkok who flies by NW swears by them for their timeliness and Asian connections. I finally flew them recently stopping over in Japan. No complaints on this! Both flights to, then from TKY left the gate up to 15 minutes early and arrived early as well. I must agree that I was not impressed by the 'freshness' of the cabins on both NW and KLM. The seats were less comfortable with inadequate legroom than I remember on UA. But the RTW started at less than I would have paid on UA and had stops and connections more in line with my desired itinerary, which is far away from having to plan through UA in Europe through dull Frankfurt which adds in the miles very fast and brings you easily into higher cost RTW tiers.

Dear Arnold

I always enjoy reading your posts - but could you help these tired eyes and break up your paragraphs a bit more please. They do tend to get quite long when you have a lot to say

It would make for a more enjoyable read

No offence meant - just constructive criticism

Thanx

And while boarding and connecting in Taipei I was MADE, rather rudely, in fact, to cut down to one carry-on, requiring me to rearrange things suddenly

I wish more airlines would enforce the rules about carry-on baggage. I avoid one SEAsian airline whose nationals seem to see it as a divine right never to have to check a bag.

Here in the UK, one of the budget carriers has suddenly relaxed their attitude to this and I'll have to start looking at the others on their routes. Some of the stuff some felllow passengers bring on reminds me of Crackerjack a kids quizz programme when I was young. With every correct answer the kid, perched on a pedestal, got a large cuddly toy or some other prize. With every wrong answer they got a large cabbage. They only got to keep what they could hold. :laughing5:

[manfarang-old]

I tend to agree that the incident has more to do with "read the fine print" than an act of discrimination. From what I've read, Northwest has a fairly enlightened employment policy (for the US) regarding gay employees and partner benefits. Still, I would avoid NW like the plague because NW was the first airline I ever took to Thailand and the memories of the cattle car experience still linger. I stuck with American Airlines until they eliminated the "More Room Throughout Coach" seats. My last trip in Thai Air's premium economy was a joy, and if budget requires I would opt for the regular economy on their New York-BKK nonstop as even those seats offer more legroom in economy than any other airline flying from the US to Thailand. Unfortunately, apart from the Los Angeles-BKK nonstop, I don't think that Thai Air's coach seats are quite as comfortable on their European or Australian flights.

But I do have an airline question

I bought my ticket through Delta - and they are, apparently partnered with Korean airlines - so I'll be switching to KA in Atlanta.

Anyone have any experience with Korean Airlines - good, bad or otherwise? Not much I can do about it - but it would nice to know if I should avoid the beebimbop

thanks

[Jetsam]

-- and you have your own movie screen .

Is this true in Economy? it wasn't 5 years ago when I flew China Airlines the last time before I switched to EVA, since I will fly China Airlines my next trip, I hope it's true :headbang:

[lonelywombat]

, I don't think that Thai Air's coach seats are quite as comfortable on their European or Australian flights.

6 months ago Thai introduced the new airbus on the direct Bangkok/Melbourne service. It is a great aircraft in coach and
in business the seats fold down to make a bed.

One tip, if you do not have enough FF points you can buy extra from Thai. It is cheaper than buying a full ticket particularily in high season

Amex is the only credit card in OZ that I can get FF flights with Thai, frustrating as most companies will not accept them(or Diners)

in business the seats fold down to make a bed

Is this a true flat bed? What is the angle from the horizontal. I notice an A340 has replaced the DC11 on the Zurich - Bangkok route and am wondeing whether it is worth giving Thai Biz another chance. Being a codeshare I'd still get the Swiss points.

[manfarang-old]

Amex is the only credit card in OZ that I can get FF flights with Thai, frustrating as most companies will not accept them(or Diners)
Same thing in the US. After reading several suggestions on flytertalk.com I wound up getting a Starwoods Hotels affiliated AmEx card and now use it for almost all my purchases. I can even charge my monthly electric bill on it. Once you've accumulated 20000 "points" (one dollar = one point), you can transfer them to your Thai Royal Orchid Plus account and they add a 5000 mile/point bonus. If would be nice if there were a MasterCard or VISA affiliated with Thai ROP available to those living outside of Thailand, but no joy so far.

in business the seats fold down to make a bed

Is this a true flat bed? What is the angle from the horizontal. I notice an A340 has replaced the DC11 on the Zurich - Bangkok route and am wondeing whether it is worth giving Thai Biz another chance. Being a codeshare I'd still get the Swiss points.

It was not completely flat about 15 degrees. I found I had the best sleep I have had on a plane for years
The Thai office will tell you if it is the new airbus, but it is certainly worth giving it a try. They are using it on a number of routes now.

It was not completely flat about 15 degrees.

Thanks. That puts it on about the same level as the Swiss offering.

I wish more airlines would enforce the rules about carry-on baggage. I avoid one SEAsian airline whose nationals seem to see it as a divine right never to have to check a bag.

WHY?

Is it just that you like unnecessary 'rules' and enjoy seeing people told to abide by them?

If there is space in the cabin (and there almost always is) and ample time to board, and there is going to be security there to screen bags ANYWAY, and passengers are comfortable having a laptop bag or a purse and an additional bag that would contain things to make their long flight more comfortable, then WHY would you care that one passenger has two bags, i.e. more than that that might be 'allowed'.

I have NEVER been annoyed or otherwise set back by any other passenger's excessive carryons. Even if they are oversized (but fit in the cabinets) I realize that the item must be of value to them or they have any other valid reason to carry it on. Sure, if their choice has to be their 'divine' right, then I guess I have to say that I support it as a divine right.

So please tell me why I'm claiming a "divine right" to have what makes me comfortable on a long flight, or items I prefer not to check, with me onboard, when there is absolutely no real problem with doing so?

[cottmann]

[quote="ArNolD"][quote="NorthStar"][quote] I have NEVER been annoyed or otherwise set back by any other passenger's excessive carryons. Even if they are oversized (but fit in the cabinets) I realize that the item must be of value to them or they have any other valid reason to carry it on. [quote]

Perhaps you have never flown on an SE Asian airline where many of your fellow passengers are Filipinos returning home with their pasalubong - presents for every relative they possess, everyone they ever worked with and all the people in their barangay? Then you will be lucky to find a place for even your feet under the seat in front of you, let alone a place for a single carry-on bag. I once had to sit all the way from Dubai to Singapore with my feet in the aisle because the Filipino couple next to me had annexed all the under-seat space and the two overhead lockers to accommodate their excessive luggage.

I kid you not, my first and only time on Phillipines Airlines there were TWO large Pampers boxes stacked in front of each emergency exit door at the back of the 747. Now *that* is out-of-control carry-on luggage...

And, a comment about lie-flat beds: I talked with a group of Boeing engineers from Seattle on a flight once and they said that a true 180-degree lie flat bed is NOT a Good Thing. Airplanes typically cruise in a slightly nose-up attiude, so if the bed were truly parallel to the floor, blood would drain toward the head and pool there. They said as far as they knew no major airlines who said they had "lie-flat" beds actually had "180-degree flat" beds.

It wasn't PAL, that I had in mind but SIA. I have flown the South East Asian region more than a little on business and on more than one occassion have been delayed embarking and disembarking by people who think the hold isn't good enough for their teddy bears. And yes I've seen the pampers phenomenon too. There must be some huge price difference in Asean on Pampers to make it worthwhile to buy airline tickets to cut costs on your Pampers bill - or maybe someone else is paying daddy's flight bill? It isn't a question of taking a delight in seeing rules enforced for the sake of it. The rules are there for the safety and comfort of passengers and those who abuse them are displaying a contempt for the lives of their fellow passengers. May they be re-incarnated as frequent flyer teddy bears.

The other reason that the 15 degree bed is popular, of course is that with your feet under the guy in front's shoulders, they can get a few more rows in.

Anyhow, I've just booked my next flight to LOS in tourist. If it's hell on the way out I'll try to use the points on an upgrade for the way back otherwise they'll do for my Christmas trip.