gay Pattaya

I was wondering what people really thought of Pattaya, especialy younger gay westerners and the same in Thailand. I sometimes get the idea its a favorite place to hang out for the older european gay expat type looking for sunshine and cheap sex no offence. But then with gay pride and all that, wonder if this image I have is unfounded?
:love8: Cedric

[Up2U]

I would say your image is well founded but I wouldn't limit it to Europeans and just cheap sex. There are many Aussies and Americans too and it's just not cheap sex but the ability to have any sex period (and with someone half your age). A true gay paradise for us aging farangs.

I see, so its just a venue for gay pride. I wondererd about this as last time I visited on my way through, it was out of season (?) but all I saw on the beach were a few very old looking farangs and a couple of aging transvestites. Where is the best place for the gay pride events then, is it Bangkok? :dontknow:

[Davey612]

Cedrid, I have no idea what you mean by gay pride events. If you are starting with the notion of events in western countries that celebrate the notion of a middle-class gay identity and lifestyle, then, I doubt there is such a thing in Thailand.

Revolutions have to come from within. If your expectation is of a western-style gay subculture in Thailand, then I would recommend that you bet on George Bush's chance of converting Iraq into a western-style democracy. In the latter case, there is a slight chance if the U.S. taxpayers continue financing the adventure.

As an aside, I doubt the kind of gay pride mentality will take root in Asian countries. Why? Because by the word "pride" itself, there is an implication of being proud of ones identity. So far, it is still a struggle, even in the richer economies. There are just too many factors to list here as to why I believe such a gay identity may never take root in Asia.

So what you see in Thailand is really two separate worlds. Your communication in the English language will mean contact with basically two groups of Thai men, those who seek better economic means through a relationship with a foreigner, and those whose education or trade skills lead them to contact with foreigners.

There is this huge group of young Thai men who only speak in Thai and whose struggles to build relationships are beyond my comprehension. I get snippets of information from time to time by comments from friends or checking the Thai-language websites (such as thailandout).

As to why there are mainly older gay westerners in Thailand, well, think about it. How often does a young western gay man decides to go to Thailand on a vacation? For most of them, vacations mean places closer to home or to countries that have common cultural roots. Witness the successes of gay-cruise packaged vacations. Most younger gays in western cultures just want to date their own kind. It is only when age sets in, and the inexplicable lure of having a younger body next to you, that the easy and relatively inexpensive sex trip to Thailand sets in (this is certainly not different than what straight men do). So, in a sense it is the pursuit of youth that lures the older gay westerners (or other older gays) to Thailand. You rarely hear someone who says "oh, I am going to Thailand to seek a mature Thai."

Gee, I think I wrote too much.

612 I though there was an annual Thai gay festival (pride) event in Bangkok. I dont know if they are middle class or not but they are very "out" see the picture sections here.

I dont go to go go bars but many young Thais have tried making friends or picking me up in places like meuseums or temples, they dont seem like money boys to me but I dont know. Some seem way to young to be so forward a lot are older school boys but its allways with a big smile. I am in my early twenties so its not as if they are after a sugar daddy. One told me they wanted to have fun with a farang at least just once?

Cedric

a lot of cheap sex against the fence and with the joys of Bumrungrad, some of us are getting younger every day.

May I call you, Ricky? (Ricky: Thai = Licky. Ooo, that sounds hot!)

They're always working an angle. The check--Or dead water buffalo--comes last: right after you do.

One num told Pearl he wanted her for his wife. Pearl replied, "Oh, what the hell! But I have to see her before I make any promises."

We tried cruising the Ancient History Museum. The curator wanted Pearl...for a display.

Bumrungrad ? Do I need some?

Call me Ricky if you like. Well um I never paid before. But I only dated my own age. Tried flowers before, works magic ?

What i fail to understand about Cedric's question is - what difference does it make what the farangs are like if, paid for or thrown at your feet, you have a taste for Thai men?

If you want to know where all the hot, young gay guys go for vacation...try San Francisco, New York, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Provincetown, Fire Island, Key West, Toronto, Vancouver, Rio...fill in the blank really - but in each of those places there will be middle-aged homosexuals who can only dream of, or pay for the fantasy they behold.

You shouldn't be dismissive of the experienced set among the gay community - yes, it is true that they commit crimes against bronzer - but when compared to your peers they are much better in that

1) they usually have their own money, smokes and places to stay
2) will most likely let you know before going off with a trick - instead of leaving you in the middle of a crowd with your car keys in their
jacket pocket.
3) they will probably shower you with compliments rather than analyze your flaws and bemoan your need for good "product"
4) they may want to bed you - but have been bitten by reality years ago -and rejecting their proposition doesn't mean the end of the
friendship. Hurt egos develop protective scars.
5) You stand a chance of always being the most desirable in the crowd.
6) You may meet people who are happy, well-adjusted and the antithesis to the concept that being old and gay is the greatest tragedy
since George H.W. Bush said to Barbara, "Hey Bar - I'm feeling kind of horny - wanna go make a baby??"

Like anything, these are generalizations.

As I eagerly anticipate my first trip to LOS (which has been a dream of mine since I was in my 20's) I have not once wondered where all the hot, young western men would be....

call me crazy

[Davey612]

612 I though there was an annual Thai gay festival (pride) event in Bangkok. I dont know if they are middle class or not but they are very "out" see the picture sections here.

Cedric

Oh! You mean that one. Have you checked the sponsors? If so, you'll see that they are mostly the gay bars from the Silom area.

But as an aside, I really don't know how much of a "pride" there is in the parades conducted in western countries. I am not sure how proud I am of the San Francisco gay festival when free Viagra pens are given out.

Have fun in Thailand

Your first post is pretty well right on. Pattaya is pretty much a meat market gay and straight. Pattaya consists mostly of go go/host bars with the exception of a couple of places like Panorama Pub in Boyztown where one can just hang out but even that is full of money boys. That is not to say a young guy like you might not hook up with some guy that wants you for some good mutual fun. But the boys in Pattaya are working boys for the most part and money is their motive. Most younger people (maybe yourself included) want to go to clubs and have a good time and maybe hookup. Pattaya is not the place for clubbing. That is best done in Bangkok where there are a number of venues in Silom area where you have a better chance at a wider variety of clubs, bars, and guys. Even at my age I like clubbing and actually get lucky now and then meeting someone who wants me for something other than money. Unfortunately it does not happen often enough.

Regarding gay pride events, the Bangkok Gay Pride in November seems to me to have gotten worse over the years rather than better but it seems to still be a busier weekend than most and lots of guys from out of town come in to party for the weekend. Pattaya gay pride has also become somewhat disappointing. Not something to specifically plan for and attend but if there while it is going on, great.

If it is clubbing and enjoying the night life that most young people enjoy, you will best find that in Bangkok. If sitting in host or go go bars is your thing well you can get that in Bangkok as well as Pattaya. If going to the beach is your thing and enjoying some night life go to Phuket. Beach is nicer and less jammed with farangs and you can still have a little clubbing at Boat Bar. Nothing exists like that in Pattaya that I have found. Most I have found in Pattaya is Marine II Disco for about one hour after Marine Disco closes. Hope this helps you out. I do not live in Thailand but travel their often so some of the expats might have different views but I am still in the West Hollywood scene and somehow get away with going out clubbing now and then and not feeling TOO out of place. Keeps me a little in tune with things. In Thailand I can't get enough of the energy of good music and hot men standing on that stage at DJ Station with their shirts off. So go out and see what's out there but do not go to the gay pride events thinking it is like the west. It is not a street party that lasts for two days. Have fun!

Oh Ricki Dickie Cedric... two points: First, you are going to get old; second, you are going to pay (you probably already are - ever taken anyone out for lunch; third, if you have not been to this or that place you must not make assumptions; and finally, whatever you see with your eyes now, you will see differently in 37 years time. And when that time comes there will be guys who are at the moment waiting to be turned into little swimmy creatures to create the dishy new guy on the blocl you fancy from behind your sun glasses and wrinkled skin and are scared to ask... except in Thailand when he will come smiling towards you with that languid gait they have. It's called life.

[Michael]

I was wondering what people really thought of Pattaya, especialy younger gay westerners and the same in Thailand.
:love8: Cedric
Cedric
I was rather old when I first visited Pattaya (at least that's how I felt as a 31 year old in England). Yet in Pattaya I felt VERY young. I hated Jomtien beach. Rows upon rows of older farang men with far younger (and far far slimmer!) Thai guys. (Maybe I'll head back to Pattaya in a few years!!)
Bob T has it right, if you're looking for a nice beach and some nightlife head for Phuket.

I hear all of you (Barbs and Bush snr LOL) we all grow old. This is all rather frightening news for me. I was hoping that my hormones would give me a break by the time I was in my 40s and leave me in peace to ponder the true meanings of life, so that I could start enjoying myself truly enjoying myself. Being in your 20s is better than in your teens but believe me its any-thing but a free lunch.

Being young and looking good and gay is you will remember not easy. We face all sorts of problems. Its not that I want to be straight but I dont yet like Go Go bars and Saunas and Frt Lauderdale. I had fun in West Hollywood for 5min exactly but it was fun limited but fun could be a cultural thingy, but by far prefered the time I met a guy by chance,working in a lodge in a swamp reserve in Tallahassee.
I am I suppose asking where do all the straight gays hang out in Thailand. If I plan a holls I dont first list all the gay venues and make that the basis for going there, that would limit me a lot? But I still like having options . The Thais are dolphins, and the Balanese.

I think I just talked myself into a corner :crybaby: told you it wasnt easy. I am a small minority in that I live in Asia but am a young gay "gweilo" in this instance.Im also not ageist I prefer men to chickens, and I am a top, I think. :tard:

Er where is LOS ? I know it must be in Thailand, have a good trip Clawdaddy, South east Asia is heaven. I aslo dont look for western friends in particular.

Cedric - LOS is shorthand for Land of Smiles - which is a common term for Thailand.

I apologize if my earlier post was aimed at something you were not trying to say!

Thanks also for the good wishes - August is much too far away!

(And for those brits who thought it sounded familiar - yes the Bush line was adapted from "The Vicar of Dibley")

Thanks clawdaddy and happy valentines day :love9: may august come soon and all your dreams come true.

Cedric-you are indeed a refreshing breath of fresh air. Stay nice and honest.

Cedric - regarding your original question about Pattaya, perhaps you should give yourself 2 days when you're next in Thailand to check it out, otherwise it'll be an itch you can't scratch. It's not that hard to reach from Bangkok. However, you should go with lowered expectations. Your impressions are not wrong. It's mostly populated by older expats, packaged tourists from Asia and in winter, hordes of Russians, some quite boorish. It really has 2 main scenes. Daytime beach and nighttime go-go bars. The beach is not fantastic unless you like slim sunburnt Thai men bothering you every 10 minutes or so. The go-go bars will probably bore you to tears, if you have no intention to purchase.

You've said you're in your 20's, caucasian, and live somewhere in Asia. Your priorities, as far as I can figure from your posts, is that of making friends with people with similar interests, and maybe getting laid. You've even said that saunas are not your scene. You don't seem to be fixated on having an Asian lover.

That being the case, it seems to me that Bangkok is not really the place for you either. The "gay" scene is an unusually commercial scene there; English is not widely spoken, so making friends may prove difficult, and other tourists of your age going to Bangkok have interests that centre on saunas, discos massage, and possibly the go-go bars, not quite parallel to yours.

Singapore may be a better place for you. The gay bar scene is closer to what you may find in the West, ranging from dance bars to chill-out bars. The average age is 20 - 40 (Asians and caucasians both). The crowd is very middle-class and everybody speaks English. Even the dance clubs that aren't gay-identified are gay-friendly too, and the women there tend to be fag hags, so even if you stay away from the gay scene, you don't need to be in the closet. And if you prefer a night out with a "special friend", Singapore on any given day, has some show or play going on that is gay-themed.

Macaroni I love Thailand no question,and have been many times. It has a very special place in my soul. I am constantly on the verge of wanting to move there. I am just not yet fully independent. Bangkok is my favorite city, I dint know what I would feel if I actually lived there the pollution is pretty terrible .You could see me as a typical Euro living in lets say Utrecht the Netherlands,with Italy France Spain etc as my playground though I dint speak all the languages. I live only a few hours flight from all the South East Asian destinations and that's where I go for holidays. I am a Euro Asian gay? Expat sporn.

I like Singapore but only for a few days at a time, it has a surprising amount to offer gays but its a strange place. There are some very nice cloths shops, especially the ones for up and coming designers like Foreskin, also the Botanical gardens is not to be missed. It is a wonderfully multi cultural society etc etc problem is you get this feeling that someone is watching you all the time and that nothing is real.

I want to go away in Easter with my friend and am trying to find a good spot. An island would be good. Thailand would be excellent. I have a drivers license so the world is my periwinkle. There are some fantastic islands in Malaysia that are very gay (would you believe) that attract mostly middle class gay Asians from around the area also backpackers from all over,but also gay Malaysians. Its quite a trip getting there though, no airports, buses long boats etc.
I am a bit confused though because in fact middle class gay Asians are also not my ideal. I get enough of those where I live. There are only so many shopping malls I can take, not to mention Rolex and bell bottoms. I dint know how the middle class thing crept in. Oh yes gay pride. :fish:

Cedric, you stated that "There are some fantastic islands in Malaysia that are very gay (would you believe) that attract mostly middle class gay Asians from around the area also backpackers from all over,but also gay Malaysians." Could you please give us a little more information (names,places, etc). Sounds like you are quite well travelled and although I have been to Malaysia a number of times, it has been quite a few years. I would love an update on your experiences in Malaysia. Thanks. Also sounds to me like you are interested in just getting out and enjoying the beach for a week or so and not too much interested in the bar/club scene. I have travelled to Thailand for over 25 years and as much as I enjoy the energy of places like DJ Station, I also get tired of the "meat market". There are times I would like to be around gay or gay friendly places but not dealing with the hustling all the time. I do find Phuket a much more quiet place to hang out and it always seems like there are gay tourists who are just kicking back and enjoying the beach and having a little night life at places like the boat bar in Patong without the intense hustle one sees in Pattaya. I would recommend Phuket as it has all the great beaches and there is some nightlife in Patong "if" you want it. The commercial scene is there but easily ignored. Just my take on things. Just remember there are any number of islands in the Gulf of Siam without the commercial scene. Hope you find that holiday destination and enjoy yourself.

If anybody out there knows anything about Koh Tao I would be most appreciative of information as I am considering a trip there first week in March.

[lonelywombat]

I want to go away in Easter with my friend and am trying to find a good spot. An island would be good. Thailand would be excellent.

Koh Samui would be a great place if you want that small island feel, great beaches and great restaurants. Hire a car an do the island. you dont even have to stay in the main Chaweng area, there are small B&B available

check www.gaykohsamui.net (http://www.gaykohsamui.net)

read the thread on Bangkok to Samui for more ideas

Will do, BobT.
You are right the club scene is not "so" important. Somehow though I always end up doing at least a couple of nights on the town where ever I am,getting totally waisted,before retreating into the world of gardens and art to recover. This part of the world is so rich with natural and cultural heritage that you can only manage the few nights without feeling like you are missing out on something.

My memory is like a colander, but it was the east coast Pulau Perhentian islands.Going by train from Bangkok,so it was quite a journey, limiting the time spent in the air to a minimum. The plot was to get to Singapore from Bangkok to meet my brother but stayed in Malaysia instead. Last year seems a life time away already.

Thanks lonleywombat, thats a cute little site. Maybe after all? Renting a little villa sounds good?

GAY PATTAYA -------YOU ARE JOKING -does it really exist ???


Pattaya like an elephants grave yard, a magnet for criminal fraternity from the fringes gay scene,many of the bars seemed to be owned by drunks and dropouts and failures in life and drug dealers, they prey on the old gays ,


---------- GAY, gay in my book= homo sexual, = man that is attracted to another man,generally of equal age

not a man attracted to a male who thinks like a woman , Pattaya also seems to attract -the latter,

the drag shows are great , if acted out by Thais , the falang drags shows are the crappiest you will see any where-[ save for jimmy" Madam Jim"]


young gays from Europe are not interested in buying sex,no good saying they don't have the cash anyway, because they do, the pink Euro -or pink Pound or dollar is filling their wallets, young gays have more spending power then they ever did, so travel costs and hotels isn't the reason they don't come ,Pattaya has earned its reputation world wide,

young guys want sex with guys the same age ,its as natural as drinking water, at least most do, that's why -Ibiza-myconos are over flowing with steamy youth who nip in and out of bed with each other without cash being the motive,

Pattaya is a different kettle of Fish------it attracts mainly elderly men , on their last legs ,the gay beach on jomtien is like looking at a geriatrics convention , every day droves of cripples and obese slobs ,with beer bellies hanging on the floor
the young Thai guys look superb--in their speedos-magnificent bodies--but the falangs ugggggggg fat ugly wrinkled- , young western guys don't want to be seen amongst them,

these elderly guys have little or no chance of getting young blood anywhere else -save other Asian hot spots where these people go to -Cambodia -Laos -----ectera ,


you will say oh so why do you go there then ! answer !!! i have been a long term visitor to Thailand for 10 years , i have stayed in all the major cities , ans on some of the islands -

pattaya as a gay spot does not attract me,-------hey go to myconos -in Greece -its clean, the people are GAY GAY GAY-beautiful real gays bars- run by nice clean well presented gay guys,


GAY PATTAYA------------all in the mind

Cedric says

I live in Asia but am a young gay "gweilo"

Could it be that you are not living in Thailand, Cedric but some SAR?

When I lived in that territory, I didn't spend too many hols in Thailand, just the stopovers on the RTWs. Japan, Korea, Taipei might suit you better if things haven't changed drastically since the 1980s.

Now I find that Thailand is the most affordable place for my five star lifestyle but occasional slumming it in Shinjuku can be fun too.

[dab69]

GAY PATTAYA -------YOU ARE JOKING -does it really exist ????



-----do you have a white stick by any chance ?-----

SSShorty this has been explained to me,I get the picture of what Pattaya is all about. Greece and Ibiza are very far away, I (we) have yearly commitments that take me that far already but not in that direction.Jet lag isn't a pretty thing.

But you mention Laos Cambodia etc now these do sound interesting, I am sure they can easily absorb sex tourists and the likes of myself. Though it sounds like it may have been better If I had got there first? Still you are right my pink dollar pound or whatever, gets me far especially as I dont need it for sex.

Ok Northstar RTWS (?) Japan Korea etc to be honest for just a few pink notes more,and an extra hour you can get a proper climate, I thrive in the tropics and sub-tropics. I havnt been attracted to Japan not really (though I helped build a jap garden and enjoyed) but more and more I am hearing good things about Korea and I like "Rain" not so much his music but 10 out of 10 for effort.

All the japanese I come across in 'otels etc have peanuts for c***s hard to see in all the bush and sometimes just a foreskin,not to give the wrong idea,this is usually in gyms etc. Must be the soya compounds in their diets. And I cant make head or tail of what they are on about except they would like very much to look just like me. Sashimi is a part of my weekly diet, for the omegas, but thats as far as I go.

[thrillbill]

I'm not young, (in my late 40's working in the area) but I find the gay life in Pattaya geared toward retired Western men... basically all you can find are boy-go-go bars and if you go to Panorama Bar (the only decent gay bar that isn't a "go-go- boy bar") the clientele is basically retired Western men meeting money boys... that's fine but someone like myself that just wants to hang out at a gay bar and socialize with other working gays is not possible in Pattaya (there's not even a gay dance club in Pattaya) . I am not interested in picking up a "boy" who is around 18 that I can't carry a conversation with the next morning... I want someone that is close to my age and is financially independent (and of course good looking and hot!). I find that I have to go to BKK on weekends for my gay social life. There, I can go to places like Cafe 4 and meet other gays around my age... hang out at the Balcony or go to DJ's and meet people other than money boys.

What is great about Thailand is that an older fellow , including myself, can feel accepted by the younger Thai men ; whereas in North America or in Europe, a guy in his 20's won't spend a second talking to someone the same age as his father.
I have some gay friends (in their 40's and 50's) that have great relationships with young Thai gays. I think we all realize that the Thai culture has a lot to do with the younger generation respecting the older generation.

Cedric,
RTW = Round the World. In the late 70s, '80s and early '90s my employers would give me a biz ticket to Scotland every couple of years and three months to use it in. Jet lag's not so bad if you make a regal progress in one direction. I would take in a week at the Royal Cliff, Pattaya and dally with aome banking friends at their beqach houses in Dubai. Tokyo and Seoul were destinations of choice on the way back though sometimes I got some skiing in near Christchurch or Papeete (not the same kind of skiing).

Clearly you are meeting different Japanese from me. The Koreans are a hearty lot and many worth knowing.

Nowadays, I spend more time in Thailand as the Thai are less ageist than most Asians and certainly more "ham sup".

"Ham sup" =good looking? Three months is a long holiday Nrthstar, more like a sabbatical. You know what its like, Xmas Easter and Summer holidays are all fixed, these involve family, long distance travel mostly, but now I get more flexi time as I am a certain age. So I can branch out that means I can go and see more places.

Next week I am off to Sydney ,I hope the weather is still warm there, I think its Autumn already. Not sure why I am going to Sydney, I suppose you just must have been at least once, but I would prefer to be scratching around the weekend market in Bangkok on a Wednesday finding some treasures for the garden I am creating.

Strange isn't it thrillbill, Pattaya a place for retired Western men ? Quite unique in this isn't it ?

[lonelywombat]

"
Next week I am off to Sydney ,I hope the weather is still warm there, I think its Autumn already. Not sure why I am going to Sydney, ?

Surely you are aware that next weekend is the Mardi Gras parade and party, biggest gay weekend in Sydney for 12 months

http://www.mardigras.org.au/

I suggest you ask a Cantonese speaking friend the meaning of "ham sup". Clearly my notion that you are domiciled in HK is incorrect.

Nope. Never landed in Sydney. One met quite enough Mrs Ydney behave alikes near my villa in Clear Water Bay Road, without visiting their hive.

Oh no Lonelywombat I didn't know about the Mardi Gras and party happening in Sydney! Today is Monday so is it this weekend? This might mean fun. I have never been to a Mardi Gras, what luck. I better take some decent cloths. Just lately I have been a bit grunge. All the garden designing. Just planted violet blue and claret red water Lillie's I thought the colours might go well? I might be wrong,give it a few months any-way.

Clear-water bay road Northstar, hm yes I know it well, on the way to Sai-Kung and Kalok my manic but cute supplier. Yes many Australians out that way, odd this, they just arrive and set up shop. I thought "ham sup" means twelve, at least that's what I have been paying for parking per hour at the tennis court. Could it be she is saying something different to me? I never get any change.

Twelve would be "sup yee". In my day there was no tunnel into Hang Hau, so you didn't go to Sai Kung via Ching Soi Wan Doh.

I'm sure your best friend will tell you the meaning of "Ham Sup, Gweilo".

[manfarang-old]

I believe "ham sup" is the Cantonese equivalent of the Japanese word "hentai"

I dont use the tunnel, I use the old Clear Water bay rd past Jatts incline to get to Sai-Kung. I still dont get Clear Water bay, zillions of badly maintained duplex about as charming as concrete bunkers, half empty even now,what a waist of coast line. Thanks manfarang.

I guess the good days have passed.

BTW the nearest translation to "ham sup lo" is usually given as "dirty old man". So "ham sup" would approximate to "lecherous". I'm not sure whether "hentai" implies something more distubingly "abnormal".

Yes better than an appartment any day. We live in luxury man, a free standing, well, completely free standing villa in the middle of the country park with a couple of hectares garden with pool no neighbours. All just 10min from central. Some tv celebs home, they live in Australia.

The only "ham sup" types we get are wild dogs after one of our our female dogs. Good days passed ? They are just begining :flower: