Brand new Gay Hotel, where to put it?

Gents,

If you were building a Gay Hotel in Pattaya, and South Pattaya was now unavailable and Jomtien is already oversubscribed with Condominium blocks, where would you try??


You have to keep the gay community happy with swimming pools. lifts etc. BUT where would be OK and where is a definite NO NO?????

The gay bars seem to be stretching out, but that could be a problem in high season with traffic etc, Body Language, X Ray etc.

or do you still all believe in Location.Location, Location?????

I think it would be important to be on a well traveled Baht bus route that would have easy access to the current gay areas. So I would consider Third road on the Jomtien side of South Pattya Road. There is land available. It is the route to Jomtien, Sunee, Day Night, and Pattayaland. It is close to Xyzte and faster to get out to North Pattaya than taking Second Road. Soi VC (??) cuts through to Sunee, Day Night and Walking Street,

[lonelywombat]

Gents,
If you were building a Gay Hotel in Pattaya, and South Pattaya was now unavailable and Jomtien is already oversubscribed with Condominium blocks, where would you try??


First I think your above para has the answer. Jomtien maybe oversupplied with Condo blocks, but your question where would you try for a new gay hotel in Pattaya. I would try Jomtien.

Next I would check out those condos opposite Poseiden where the escalator that has never worked is.

I would then check out every block in that soi to see who owns and what is not working. TherE are a number of places that could work but you have a closed mind to Jomtien

My answer is draw a circle on a map of about 500metres around Poseiden and check it all out FIRST

or do you still all believe in Location.Location, Location?????
Definately - location matters! To build an hotel for the gay community other than in the Boyztown/Pattayaland - Sunee - Jomtien areas would IMHO be commercial suicide (unless of course entertainment attractions in the form of gay bars/pubs/discos materialised in the new area at the same time). The only area I would consider would be the Day/Night area.

I hear that Cartier gogo bar in Soi Buakhao is struggling to find customers and that is only just off the beaten track on the other side of Pattaya Tai.

BTW. Is this a hint that you are going back into business Kevin ?? :geek: :cheers:

[puckered_penguin]

Is this a hint that you are going back into business Kevin ?? :geek: :cheers:

Yes he is and has already retained Monty as manager, cook and show impresario!

The hotel already has a name "Montys at Kevins

or do you still all believe in Location.Location, Location?????
Definately - location matters! To build an hotel for the gay community other than in the Boyztown/Pattayaland - Sunee - Jomtien areas would IMHO be commercial suicide (unless of course entertainment attractions in the form of gay bars/pubs/discos materialised in the new area at the same time).

Is this a hint that you are going back into business Kevin ?? :geek: :cheers:


Yes. I am a little bored at 45 years old and nothing to do. It's not the money, I am OK in that area, as some of you know

It's the challenge, and when I can see gaping holes in what our community wants, I know I can do better than what is being given at the minute.

I have already inwardly digested all your comments, such as lifts, swimming pools, nice gardens, broadband and I have some great ideas.

I went to some of my old places, and New places as well, for ideas, in the UK and I hope and believe the gays will like the stuff I have collected and want to do.

They're new, fresh and not a "lip sync" in sight!

Just location!

Pattayamale, thanks I will go and look.

Is this a hint that you are going back into business Kevin ?? :geek: :cheers:

Yes he is and has already retained Monty as manager, cook and show impresario!

The hotel already has a name "Montys at Kevins

puckered penguin,


Fawlty Towers springs to mind!

... isn't it difficult to find the right amount of land in the right space. My own opinion of course, is what the modern queen would want is something like Babylon, which I think is absolutely brill, and all the amenities are used "frequently", good turnover probably an all, that sort of model is good. Basically, one can go to Babylon and stay there all day and night. Now, if you can produce a "model" based on that theory, you will get the money rolling in. Without sounding too personal, how much do you think it would cost?

Its a shame Btown can't be expanded in some way - lets face it that is where everyone goes. Another idea of course is further afield, BTown set up was done before - can it be done again somewhere else - food for thought!

But I'm absolutely sure that what the gay hotels are lacking are a big swimming pool and I mean big, it probably doesn't cost that much more to build a pool double the size of a normal one (whatever a normal size is, but you get the drift).

[Boxer]

Old news I bet but do you remember the Grosvenor House Hotel up Hagley Road in Birmingham run by Aunty Guy 30 years ago? Select Nice grounds and gardens to walk (cruise) in with private swimming pool. Good camp Restaurant run by great staff who knew the job (a.k. Luxor quality) and small Piano Bar with entertainers (Dennis/Entertainers with singalongs). Seperate Bar (outlandish) and a small Disco (for shows) away from the rest for those who wanted to dance (the younger set who brought in the older set or is that the other way round in Pattaya?). Hotel Rooms professionally run and good quality at the right price, Grosvenor was always full at weekends giving a core of new faces who travelled from afar. Set out (multilevel?) like you could cruise from one atmosphere/area to another as your mood fitted. The atmosphere was sexy but safe to do your own thing amongst our own people. I believe it is time to return to a personal home that you feel part of as a gay guy in Pattaya not one to share with str8s. if possible. Good luck.

, what ever happened to Aunty; also I remember having dinner with Noele Gordon there, remember her? The going ons there believe me were fun.

I have been around recently to show some friends from BKK several properties I knew who are both in good locations and are available at a reasonable price. All with good options business wise – gay or straight.

They gave up on Pattaya.

They bought later against my advice a large plot of land near the beach but having thought about this deal again, this plot is already split and partly sold, some parts even at a loss.

I think somewhere in between Day night and Jomtian would be a great location.

I think also somewhere with a pool is a big plus.

I think somewhere in between Day night and Jomtian would be a great location.

I think also somewhere with a pool is a big plus.

It didn't work properly ...

[colmx]

I think Sansuk guesthouse is already ytying to cater for people who want a "country" style break - so i reckon South Pattaya is still the place...

How about buying the Serene - gutting it - and redeveloping it as Boystowns 3rd hotel?

Other location... In that new complex bwtween Koenig Hotel on Soi VC and 3rd road -where Ole restaurant is located... It used to be the Sunnee Volleyball court when i first started visiting Pattaya

Happy Boys is already there as is T&T, Old Montys B&B, and new Late Coyote Bar (name unknown to me) etc
I think there is a hotel there already - maybe waiting for injection of the right ideas!

Or my Favourite idea - Buy the Welcome Plaza!
It already has a huge gay following (possibly has more customers per night than Ambiance and LCR put together?)
Its already has the pool, gardens, location, Parking, decent rooms, restaurant, decent lobby etc

It could be done up floor-by-floor (like the Pinnacle) and ultimately become the best gay hotel... in The World??

[Doug]

I'm still looking for a place like the old Homex Inn. One year I stayed for couple of weeks at the On Hill House...across the road from Mr. Macs towards Jomtien. Not a big pool but very secluded and beautiful and there was a dance hall connect to the hotel.

[Aunty]

Well I haven't waded my way through every post in this thread, (so my apologies if this had already been said) but I thought location would be the singular most important thing for the homosexual traveler when visiting Pattaya. As you're catering to a Gay crowd, and let's face it, they're not exactly traveling to Pattaya to take in it's culture and historical sites now are they, whatever gets ancient queers to as many gay bars, clubs, the beach and other gay venues (and shopping) with the minimum of fuss and bother would be the best. At least within walking distance to one of the main gay venues, and a short baht bus ride to the others.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

and wishing to sell up..South Pattaya.

Lifts-swimming pool etc..a mini Dudit Resort. A grand Entrance...the lot.

Forget Jomtien Beach.

Few get it right when it's so easy.

Well I haven't waded my way through every post in this thread, (so my apologies if this had already been said) but I thought location would be the singular most important thing for the homosexual traveler when visiting Pattaya. As you're catering to a Gay crowd, and let's face it, they're not exactly traveling to Pattaya to take in it's culture and historical sites now are they, whatever gets ancient queers to as many gay bars, clubs, the beach and other gay venues (and shopping) with the minimum of fuss and bother would be the best. At least within walking distance to one of the main gay venues, and a short baht bus ride to the others.

Hi Aunty,

You are definitely on the tried and trusted Location theory, which can never be denied. So, you are really saying Boyztown or Jomtien, or at least very near to these areas.

Pattayamale,

Regards the location you suggested, they want to sell all six Rai in one parcel.

They do not wish to split and they want.........30 million PER RAI. They must be carried away with the heat! Although I thought that area had half a chance, good accessibilty to all areas.

maybe if you can get another investor, some very wealthy gay guys now in Pattaya, you could put together a great gay complex by having 10 or so really upscale condos (12 - 15 million baht each) in one area then an upscale or midrange hotel with gardens, pool and public entertainment area. Each room in hotel can come with an electric tuk tuk and driver/butler.

Not everyone wants to be own on the beach. Many want some type of privacy. Large condos projects (many units) are very public. Parking, traffic, etc. I'd rather be in the "center" of town in a park type area.....

DELETED

[quote="Pattaya Male":32f9k2n4]maybe if you can get another investor, some very wealthy gay guys now in Pattaya, you could put together a great gay complex by having 10 or so really upscale condos (12 - 15 million baht each) in one area then an upscale or midrange hotel with gardens, pool and public entertainment area. Each room in hotel can come with an electric tuk tuk and driver/butler.

Not everyone wants to be own on the beach. Many want some type of privacy. Large condos projects (many units) are very public. Parking, traffic, etc. I'd rather be in the "center" of town in a park type area.....


Sounds like you'd be throwing away your money on this scheme Kevin, and a bloody lot of it too.[/quote:32f9k2n4]


Maybe Pattayamale,

Hua Hin or Nongkhai are the places to consider, not over developed and sensible pricing structures, also GayTourists!

[PinkSilom]

Presuming of course that a hotel is well-managed, its success or failure depends upon three things: price, location, and facilities. I believe the market could take an 'upmarket' gay hotel.

Kevin, if you could get your hands on a chunk of the playing field that stands on the corner of South Pattaya and Pratamnak Road you'd stand a fair chance of making a profit and being able to sell the hotel on when you've had enough. The location is perfect as it's within walking distance of Pattaya's two main gay areas: Pattayaland and Sunee Plaza. If Soi Day Night ever takes off as a gay area, that's within walking distance too. You're also on a baht bus route which would take you easily to Jomtien Beach or the Jomtien Complex.

[Wesley]

Is this a hint that you are going back into business Kevin ?? :geek: :cheers:


[b]Yes. I am a little bored at 45 years old and nothing to do. It's not the money, I am OK in that area, as some of you know[
.

Good Luck old man, I wish you he bst in your experiment, I think I would think twice before I tried that, it seems that everything depends on inflation and the fall of the dollar for me. I wish you all the success in the world.

Wesley

Is this a hint that you are going back into business Kevin ?? :geek: :cheers:


Yes. I am a little bored at 45 years old and nothing to do. It's not the money, I am OK in that area, as some of you know[
.

Good Luck old man, I wish you he bst in your experiment, I think I would think twice before I tried that, it seems that everything depends on inflation and the fall of the dollar for me. I wish you all the success in the world.

Wesley


Dear Wesly and Pink Silom.


Pink silom. I think your ideas are solid and common sense, I'll check it out.

Thank you very much. Great thoughts! Not [b]certain of exact location???


Wesley,

When you have been as close as I came, you have different thoughts about money and life! I am confident in my ideas and value for money!

[Aunty]

I wonder how many 'wealthy' gay tourists really travel to Pattaya? Would the numbers be sufficient to keep the occupancy rate of an 'upmarket' Pattaya hotel high enough to make a profit? Do wealthy gays, in number, even travel to Thailand, and Pattaya in particular, to buy sex? Money is a powerful sexual attractant. Wouldn't wealthy homos be able to buy all the sex and boyfriends they want and need back home? I would think so.

Personally, I think it's an urban myth that Western gay men, as a demographic, are wealthy, or significantly better off than their str8 peers. I know the idea goes that as gay men are men and they don't have children, they are better educated, have higher paying jobs, have more money and are able to keep more of their money to create additional wealth, and they spend, spend, spend! But what are the actual studies that establishes this as fact? Personally, I don't buy it and I never have. The only studies I've seen (and careful ones they were as well) were that in actual fact the majority of gay men were poor, were more likely to be less well-off than their str8 counterparts, and more often than not, were not found in high paying senior positions despite their qualification for those jobs. This is, when you think about it, consistent with the marginalized position within society that gay men still find themselves. That they are all rich is actually inconsistent with that marginalized position.

Just look at this board and see how often cost is a major factor and determinant of peoples lives, and travels, in Pattaya. At the risk of offending many here but it seems to me that Pattaya is actually the play ground for gay skin-flints, certainly not the rich. Sure there are going to be rich queers who go to Pattaya, but I'm picking that in terms of numbers, they are far fewer than those who have to keep an ever watchful eye on their pennies.

There seems to be already a couple of high end hotels/resorts in Pattaya that cater for the well off faggot. Is the market big enough to sustain a third? Are the others full? How are they doing? Anyway I have great deal of respect for Mr Kevin's business acumen and I'm sure he'll be very astute in terms of where he positions his hotel (in the broadest possible sense) for the greatest success in the gay tourist market of Pattaya.

I'd love to know, Kevin, what are your broad plans, and what market you are aiming to cater for - without giving away too many secrets of course!

Pattaya is actually the play ground for gay skin-flints, certainly not the rich.

Gee Honey - such a bitch! Dontcha watch your pennies, Luv?

[Aunty]

Pattaya is actually the play ground for gay skin-flints, certainly not the rich.

Gee Honey - such a bitch! Dontcha watch your pennies, Luv?

Only when I'm putting petrol into the Bentley, dharling. :cheers:

[bing]

Concerning the idea a of new up scale hotel. I have never been in the bar or hotel industry, but have had friends and know a few others who in the hotel business. Three weeks ago while enjoying the company of 4 Philippino nurses in Palm Springs one of my buddies who is in the bar business mentioned that gays are not a loyal group. He cited the many bars in major cities in the USA that have gone out of business for no other reason than lack of patrons. It is fine to have a nitch, catering to a specific group, ( leather, punk, flaming) but unless you are appealing to the general core of guys, your chances of success are being cut. When on vacation I don't have to count every penny, but when I choose a hotel, Location, Price and Friendly atmosphere are my considerations. When traveling in USA I can never find a gay place for less than $100 to $150 per day, yet when in Pattaya would not consider staying at a place that would cost $100 a day. I add this post with the intent of adding the idea of loyalty, and the seeming lack of it in the gay community. That is why i mentioned what I consider the major three consideration 1. Location 2. Price 3. Friendly Atmosphere.

kquill, advice and comments are much appreciated and of course well intended, but I would tread lightly as you only have to look at what happened to other 'Gay' hotels in Pattaya, the Icon springs to mind (and in Phuket too) lovely place, nicely furnished, reasonable locations, but in the end doomed from lack of customers. There have been quite a few other hotels that failed in that neck of the woods as well. Whatever, you are a businessman and know what you're about so I wish you luck if you do proceed and look forward to hearing about any progress.

The only place at the mo for a hotel in Jomtien without exception. I would purhase something between soi 5 and 12 existing wiyh a pool and refurbish - indeed there a few along the way that are completely empty for 5 months of the year. This would be a great money spinner, Hon.

Aunty and Bing,

Straightforward and to the point posts, I thank you for them.


A businessperson can get too close to "the wood to see the trees," on occasion, and that's why I find this forum very useful and informative.

[PinkSilom]

Aunty, your post was well thought out and, in my opinion, accurate. However, Kevin's customer base would not be restricted to just the wealthy.

Have you any idea how many pretentious, vacuous queens vacation in Pattaya. It's all about image. They would spend fifty weeks a year back home dining on instant noodles just to save up enough money to show off in Pattaya. The opportunity to name drop the hotel would be too much to resist.

[quote="Pattaya Male":qryqibfx]maybe if you can get another investor, some very wealthy gay guys now in Pattaya, you could put together a great gay complex by having 10 or so really upscale condos (12 - 15 million baht each) in one area then an upscale or midrange hotel with gardens, pool and public entertainment area. Each room in hotel can come with an electric tuk tuk and driver/butler.

Not everyone wants to be own on the beach. Many want some type of privacy. Large condos projects (many units) are very public. Parking, traffic, etc. I'd rather be in the "center" of town in a park type area.....


Sounds like you'd be throwing away your money on this scheme Kevin, and a bloody lot of it too.[/quote:qryqibfx]

Dear JOHN,

At that kind of money, I'm not interested in "buying work" It is more, the boredom that is killing me.

Professionally, I'm a marketeer, although I have no experience with the hospitality or entertainment industry. One thing I do know however, is to be very careful about customers' expressed desires and attitudes. They often differ from actual behaviour when it comes to parting with money. During the market research phase, one tends to find people saying, yes I will be more than happy to pay X dollars if the product has this feature, that feature and so on.... but when you launch such a product, they will say, oh, X dollars is too much... or maybe I can do without such and such a feature after all.

My gutfeel tells me this: it is doubtful anything more upscale than Ambiance or Cafe Royal will work. One may be tempted to follow the example of Rabbit Resort, but I doubt if there is enough critical mass among gay tourists to sustain that level. Rabbit Resort looks like it is succeeding, but then, it doesn't depend on the pink dollar.

My observation is that Pattaya is not the place for those prepared to go upmarket. Bangkok and Phuket might be a better bet. Chiangmai too might work. For Phuket and Chiangmai though, the hotel will need to have its own boys bar attached, since these cities tend to lack good quality bars. However, kquill is probably interested in living in Pattaya, and so talking about other cities (besides Nong Khai?) may be beside the point.

My gutfeel tells me it isn't safe to go more upscale than Ambiance or Cafe Royale... but if one is competing at a similar level, how to distinguish a new hotel from these two? Location is one way, which is why it's good that kquill is asking. But putting a (relatively) upscale hotel in a cheap or unfamiliar area is a very risky proposition. The unescapable fact is Boyztown still has a better reputation than the other existing zones, unless kquill's project includes setting up a boys bar that becomes a draw in its own right.... in which case he could locate it in Jomtien, to distinguish it from the existing competitors.... and provide a regular minibus service to Boyztown, Sunnee, etc, for those clients who still want to go there.

One thought which I would like to share is this: watch the Asian market. Too many gay businesses in Pattaya cater to Western tourists - hence competition is stiff. However, there are no places dedicated to the gay Taiwanese, Hong Kong, Japanese, Singaporean, Chinese, Korean traveller. That's a market segment begging to be filled, and with budget airlines serving a 5-hour flight-time radius, the numbers have potential. What is involved? Advertising in Asian gay websites, a website in various Asian languages, serving an Asian breakfast, staff who can speak simple Chinese and Japanese, video channels to suit. As an indicator of the Asian market, look at Fridae, its large number of profiles and its eyeballs. I'm told that the Chinese version of Fridae has even more traffic than the English version. There's a market there.

One big saving from serving the Asian market - forget the pool (and the cost of maintaing it). Sunbathing is not an Asian thing. A nice breakfast garden will do fine. Put in a small gym, however.

WHat i miss in any pattaya hotel, the poseidon or the other 2 in boys town is a nice swimming pool,

[ned kelly-old]

Some very well thought out and pertinent comments.
You would still need a pool though. Sunbathing is not a Thai, Indonesian, ethnic Malaysian thing, but many Singaporeans, Honkies, Japanese, Taiwanese have a similar attitude as Westerners...........a lot of them love the sun.

If the new hotel provided reliable free hourly shuttle service between Boyztown, Sunee, and Jomtien, the location could be viable any place in between. It would be a popular attraction for the hotel guests who could leave their transportation worries behind. I would forget about the usual motorbike rental and stay at such a hotel for the convenience and to avoid the traffic danger riding the scooter.

[quote="kcurterif"]If the new hotel provided reliable free hourly shuttle service between Boyztown, Sunee, and Jomtien, the location could be viable any place in between. It would be a popular attraction for the hotel guests who could leave their transportation worries behind. I would forget about the usual motorbike rental and stay at such a hotel for the convenience and to avoid the traffic danger riding the scooter.[/quote



Would anyone else, in sincerity??? if you had good transport and not worrying about the local M/bike taxis???

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

location location...

it cannot be said enough times...it's the most important aspect..apart from pure luxury of course and please..some style !!

Let me choose the designer..I have a young Thai who is being snapped up by farangs and rich Thais alike to dress their condos.

Forget being near the beach....otherwise you do away with many tourists raison d'etre to even be on holiday.

traveling to the beach is all part of the process...hopping on and off baht buses during the day is a treat in itself..what a great little sightseeing and people watching exercise it becomes !!

Indeed Pattaya is one of the few places in the world this happens..the only other I can think of is Mykonos where you get shuttle buses and then little fishing boats to a variety of beaches...it's all great fun ( until one day a mincing queen gets on says "Helloooo Lunchtime" and turns out to be the football jock you fancied from afar in school and is now a airline trolley dolly with a whacking great mustache)

Listen to me..I'm an expert !

(if you need a bar manager..I'll do it for free)

location location...

it cannot be said enough times...it's the most important aspect..apart from pure luxury of course and please..some style !!

Let me choose the designer..I have a young Thai who is being snapped up by farangs and rich Thais alike to dress their condos.

Forget being near the beach....otherwise you do away with many tourists raison d'etre to even be on holiday.

traveling to the beach is all part of the process...hopping on and off baht buses during the day is a treat in itself..what a great little sightseeing and people watching exercise it becomes !!

Indeed Pattaya is one of the few places in the world this happens..the only other I can think of is Mykonos where you get shuttle buses and then little fishing boats to a variety of beaches...it's all great fun ( until one day a mincing queen gets on says "Helloooo Lunchtime" and turns out to be the football jock you fancied from afar in school and is now a airline trolley dolly with a whacking great mustache)

Listen to me..I'm an expert !

(if you need a bar manager..I'll do it for free)


So Lunchtime,

Where is your ideal location please??

[ned kelly-old]

By far Location is the most important factor, as unlike most of the other requirements, once committed it can't be changed.
I would look for as close to the Jomtien scene as possible.
In between is the same as being nowhere, there is inconvenience involved no matter what.
In addition to the day-time attraction of the beach, the Jomtien area has grown quickly gay-wise in the last few years and most of the better restaurants in town have followed suit. From my observations it also seems to be the preferred area for the better-off Westerners that live in the area permanently or at least for a major part of the year.
Hotel provided transport would then only need to be an evening thing, as clearly there are more night time interests in Pattaya. Drinking would not be a problem; you either walk to the Jomtien venues or use the hotel transport if you decide to go further afield.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I would use Mosaic apartments is a good guide : being within reasonable walking distance of Boyztown and Sunnee Plaza. No need to be the same area but that's give a nice radius within which to work.

Working on a successful venture like that you only have to look at the advantages..it's close to virutually everything..nightlife, shopping malls, street shopping..the sea.

A swimming pool would be a great advantage..I stayed at the Dusit for years and only ever went to their beach or pool for an hour or so before I got bored and headed off to Jomtien for people watching. But the Dusit was annoyingly too far to head out in the afternoon for browsing around the shops..it becomes a production.

Pattaya: I would say there is one only really good location, thats the good old Siam Bayview Hotel.

Jomtien: Where the Avalon Hotel is.

[Marsilius]

Kevin: you ask for reactions to the shuttle bus idea...

To my mind:

(1) it's too inflexible because it commits to you taking the outbound/return services at fixed times and from fixed locations when, generally on holiday, you want your activities to be more flexible;

(2) for me at any rate, part of the "fun" of Pattaya that differentiates it from boring back-home is the baht-bus ride or the motorcycle taxi ride (especially if you can find a good looking motorcyclist - I have yet to discover a good-looking baht-bus driver, even when it's been possible to see!)

Kevin, Having read the various comments and suggestions would like to make my own comments:

Icon - IMHO failed in Pattaya because it was twixt and between i.e. not in Boyztown/Sunee OR in Jomtien and away from the bar areas - Location location location again! They also thought they were better than they actually were and their prices reflected this - they put off customers because they were comparatively expensive for what they provided.

Upscale hotel - I agree with the other comment and think that there would not be enough (affluent) customers to sustain such a business. It seems to me from reading these boards that most readers are looking for economy and the lowest price possible consistent with reasonable comfort. (You only have to look at the Bell taxi service thread to see what I mean !).
For the majority of tourists a hotel is just a place to sleep and a place from which to explore. Money can be better spent on paying for days/nights out and their varied 'entertainments'.

Location - it must be within easy walking distance of the main bar areas i.e.Boyztown/Sunee. Both areas are fairly well served with hotels, so somewhere like the Day/Night area would be ideal (but is there the scope there to provide a swimming pool?). The other interesting suggestion was to look at the Serene hotel/bar (if it was available to be bought). However, that would require a lot of money to gut and refurbish it and would Boyztown be able to sustain three decent hotels (at the moment Serene caters for the decidedly lower end of the market!)?

Facilities - for me the following would be a must to attract me away from my usual hotel. A lift, en-suite showers not baths, a swimming pool and a decent restaurant (especially for breakfast). If there is to be no lift, the availability of a couple of suites (as opposed to bedrooms) on the ground/first floor would be an attraction. Forget about gimmicks like massage parlours/fitness centres, although a sauna area with steam room/large jacuzzi might attract extra custom.

Shuttle bus - not a goer - too inflexible. However, if the chosen area is away from the bar areas previously mentioned a possibility might be for you to dream up some form of on-demand taxi/private bahtbus/tuk tuk service for guests.

Management - IMHO an expat general manager (a la LCR) is essential. It must be someone who has knowledge of how farangs think and what they expect from a hotel.

I wish you good luck and good fortune in whatever you decide. If you put in even half the effort you put into Throb/Splash you should have no problem!

[Wesley]

I stayed at ambiance simply because of its reputation and proximity to good entertainment Venues. But the over whelming reason was I knew I would be well looked after and watched over in a manner that would keep me out of any Thai jails. Service for me was important and the bikes and walking to Sunee were fun not a chore. I don't care for a pool personally but I am sure those in better shape would not mind spending some time by the pool. At my age I had just soon be seen with my clothes on thanks. The style and cleanliness of the room is paramount if I am paying well for it and service would be next in line then your ability to make me feel comfortable and safe in new surroundings. I am not sure if even there were a new hotel, I would change my mind about the Ambiance as I was really treated well. I was watched over like a mother hen watches he chicks and I had people watching to make sure I was not offing some 16 year old. Because it is you I would give it a try, if I did not know you I would likely not change what I know to be good for an adventure in hotel accommodations.

Wesley

If the new hotel provided reliable free hourly shuttle service between Boyztown, Sunee, and Jomtien, the location could be viable any place in between. It would be a popular attraction for the hotel guests who could leave their transportation worries behind. I would forget about the usual motorbike rental and stay at such a hotel for the convenience and to avoid the traffic danger riding the scooter.[/quote



Would anyone else, in sincerity??? if you had good transport and not worrying about the local M/bike taxis???

Good transport yes but not an hourly shuttle. When I am on vacation I do things impulsively. I would not want to wait for a shuttle to pick me up and go on a fixed route. However I think if I had a private tuk tuk (or electric golf cart) waiting for me to go when I wanted it, that would be great. Good advertisement too...pink,blue and gold

[lonelywombat]

Earlier this year we discussed buying Poseiden.

Friends that have tried to book there claim they are almost always booked out

Why look for a new place you can build when established places are up for grabs

If their occupancy rate is higher than Cafe Royale or Ambience, are they still worth a look?

There is/was a yacht club round the corner from Montys worth a look.

if you are serious have a good look round Jomtien you will be glad you did.

if you are serious have a good look round Jomtien you will be glad you did.
Jomtien is not the place to locate an exclusively gay hotel. Lets face it there are more than enough guest house type rooms in the area already to cater for any clientelle wishing to stay there. There is nothing to do in the area at night for those wishing some life and 'action' and that means commuting to Boyztown or Sunee Plaza for any reasonable night life - quite inconvenient.

Jomtien is a geriatric nursing home for mainly tired old Ozzies with absolutely nothing to do except gaze into each others navels with a tinnie in hand whilst boring each other with tales of their walkabouts !

... if you made the right offer, you could buy "royale" and perhaps one of the bars next to it, and revamp it ... not sure about where the swimming pool would go if it did go anywhere ... not also sure if you have that sort of cash to buy it them out! But food for thought. You're obviously eager to get back into this market.

However, to be perfectly honest I don't know why you don't do your research elsewhere, somewhere totally different, and I mean totally, like Bali for instance.

Only two suggestions I have, which may have already been mentioned or may not be available or practical:

There is/was a parcel of land at the corner of Pattaya Third Road and South Pattaya Road, accross from Champ Issarn - I always thouight that was ripe for development being a cockstride from sunnee and a short couple of mins bus baht from Boyztown. A nice hotel built in a hexagonal shape with a centre courtyard/pool for privacy would be lovely.

I also thought the Flamingo Hotel was on the market. I don't think it has a pool but maybe room could be found for an indoor pool (or maybe a rooftop pool) and the bar and restaurant areas could be redeveloped to cater for the 'gay tastes'.

Whatever you decide on, good luck Kevin.

... if you made the right offer, you could buy "royale" and perhaps one of the bars next to it, and revamp it ... not sure about where the swimming pool would go if it did go anywhere ... not also sure if you have that sort of cash to buy it them out! But food for thought. You're obviously eager to get back into this market.

However, to be perfectly honest I don't know why you don't do your research elsewhere, somewhere totally different, and I mean totally, like Bali for instance.

Whitedesire,

Think about that one,[Bali and bombs!], Why not open in Songkhla?


By the way, I have moved on from from Cafe, I want a new location!


Maybe, sit on my hands guys eh!


Thank you all for your enlightening contributions,


Cheers guys,


Kevin.

That could happen anywhere - Thailand has its problems and has had more than its fair share of threats. You have a point in that a "different location" - agreed. But to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure if Pattaya has had its day or if there is still money to be made there in the gay market. I mean it is absolutely full of everything that a cheap tourist wants, hotels, clubs, beaches - and there are restrictions with regard to opening hours for clubs. Unless you have a "marketable" product, it's risky, a word which you really would eliminate and think that your business is going to be successful.

I was driving down soi 17 (maybe called soi Kopai) and saw what I thought was a nice looking small hotel (from the outside). It has a large area in front. It is just past Mind Resort. I am not sure, but might be for sale.Going on 3rd road cross South Pattaya Road towrds Jomtien.At the traffic light that has a 7/11 on the corner turn left. It is about 400 meters down on the left just past MindResort.

I would provide transportation either in a TukTuk like Pat Pie'sor in a sidecar attached to a motorbike well docorated withthe hotel's name. However,sitting on your hands might be fun too.

Dear Guys,

I would like to say thanks to everyone for a great deal of worthy well thought out details, ideas, likes and dislikes as regards to what they require and desire in a new Hotel.

All I intend to do now is find the correct site, if it is still possible in Pattaya.

Anyone Pattaya based who sees or thinks they know a possible site, let me know please. I am back in Kalasin but have agents working for me in Pattaya who understand exactly my needs and its usage [ the property or Land] and preferred locations.