Sunee Plaza/Pattayaland Soi 1 -Police check Friday night

[travelerjim]

Walking past Sunee Plaza...
Late Friday night August 17th...(at about 12:15am Saturday morning)...
and at the entrance to Sunee Plaza in front of Marina Inn Hotel...
3 Police Officers were standing at this entrance to Sunee Plaza...

I entered briefly and chatted a moment with owner of the club next to Jim,Jimmy,James...
and he said Police had made a complete sweep of all boys working and loitering around Sunee,
gathered them together to check ages and pee in a bottle for drug test.

The owner said the boys had been gathered several hours before..and not yet returned...
and that Police had cordoned off all entrances/exits to Sunee Plaza.

Not sure which Police Department(s) involved...the 3 Officers I saw were in light tan uniforms.

I turned around and left the Sunee Plaza the same way I entered.

TJ

[travelerjim]

Posted on Ting&Tongs Gay Thailand by Mrs Bucket (of Topman)

http://www.gaytingtong.com/topic1740.ht ... 74543a749a (http://www.gaytingtong.com/topic1740.html?sid=e1ec12ba68b85478736d6074543a749 a)

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007

Post subject: Sunee Plaza Raids

Tonight at around 11p.m. local time Police from Bangkok, Chonburi & Pattaya raided Sunee Plaza.

All exits were sealed off and ALL Boys were taken from ALL Bars for drugs tests.

Sunee Plaza business suffers again.

Anyone have any further info.

[globalwanderer]

not just Sunee... also pattayaland soi 3 for a start.

at 1am no boys had returned.

in Sunee earlier many boys had just shut up shot


Went to pattayaland... Dynamite was open but said as they had no boys left they'd close after the show

[PinkSilom]

'not just Sunee... also pattayaland soi 3 for a start.'

The police raided Boyztown?

[globalwanderer]

Boyztown seemed unaffected ' for tonight' to quote one owner, but certainly other parts of Pattayaland

[PinkSilom]

You had me confused for a moment, as Pattayaland Soi 3 is Boyztown, and I was told that Sunee and Soi 1 had been the subject of the raids. Thanks for clearing it up anyway Globalwanderer.

I just hope the penalties for the bars will not be too stiff when their staff test positive for illegal drugs. Even the deterrent of regular in-house testing has its limitations.

[globalwanderer]

sorry got the soi numbers mixed...as the bars were still operating i assume the penalties for the bars are minor

[travelerjim]

Atri on Ting&Tongs reports:

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:46 am

http://www.gaytingtong.com/topic1740.html .

"My friend epsy send me message. He stays in MarinaInn and was sitting in Wans Place
when the action starts.

Police was driving the boys together in front of Wans place - there is a big enough square -
about 100 boys.

No problems with farangs - only hunting for thai boys.

He was leaving with his friend to his room."

TJ

Atri on Ting&Tongs reports:

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:46 am

http://www.gaytingtong.com/topic1740.html .

"My friend epsy send me message. He stays in MarinaInn and was sitting in Wans Place
when the action starts.

Police was driving the boys together in front of Wans place - there is a big enough square -
about 100 boys.

No problems with farangs - only hunting for thai boys.

He was leaving with his friend to his room."

TJ

TJ,

Why am I not surprised?

The Police, contrary to popular belief, are not stupid, couple with the fact that 95% of the boys are, and they know exactly where to target and get a result to please their bosses, look good in the newspapers and be "seen" to be actively combating crime to the outside World.

As the say. "just because a dog is born in a barn, doesn't make it a horse!" The main, not all, users of Yaa Baa frequent Sunnee Plaza and it is a known fact. You can paint, clean, wipe it, wash it, you cannot alter it.

It is the main point of contact for the tearaways, always has been for as long as can be remembered. It is also known for not being as strict on ID checks,ages and in general a more lacksidasical approach to business.

They also know it is a "flash in the pan" a "hazard of the job" and things will be back to normal in a day or so.

The Police, seldom descend on Pattayaland Soi 3, as usually they are wasting their time, the likelihood of success is minimal [ for what they are looking for, which is underage and drugs] and the bars are better run!

They raid Pattayaland Soi 3 occasionally to show even handedness.

If they want headlines, you know where they go and why. That is just how it is.

If you want the lower end of the market, don't shop at Harrods!

It would be nice also, if only for confusion's sake, if people would get it clear that Pattayaland Soi 3 is BOYZTOWN and the other two sois are Pattayaland 1 and 2.

It is not that difficult to grasp!

[Dodger]

KQuill Qoute:


As the say. "just because a dog is born in a barn, doesn't make it a horse!" The main, not all, users of Yaa Baa frequent Sunnee Plaza and it is a known fact. You can paint, clean, wipe it, wash it, you cannot alter it.

Maybe it's jus too late at night...but what in the fuck are you talking about?

[Aunty]

Kevin do you think this current raid would have been prompted by the murder of LMTU's friend last week? The murder had all the hallmarks of someone high on yaa baa.

[Wesley]

I hate police especially corrupt and those on the Take. Here the only way a bar can operate if pays off the police ahead of time which kills off all the profit and reason for any one to venture out and try to make a go of it.

Dodger, I have heard that saying before , I don't think it an American line but I have heard it before. I think he was saying ... Well I'm not sure what he was saying... but the meaning of the phrase is because if looks like a dog barks like a dog doesn't mean it that it is a dog. That is the American version of the other. the other phrase is if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck that don't make it a duck. All three mean the same things which is to say , you can never be sure of anything

[travelerjim]

Gaybutton has reported on the Sunee Plaza raid...

http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index ... topic=1952 (http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1952) .

"Last night a friend and I took a little tour of Sunee Plaza. Several of our friends like to hang out
at the Corner Bar and we were on our way there to catch up with them at about 9:00 PM.

As we passed one bar, someone told us a raid is expected at about 10:00 PM. In other words, Sunee Plaza was tipped off.

When we caught up with our friends at Corner Bar, they also told us a raid is expected at about 10:00 PM.
At about 9:40, that's when we began to see the under-age boys starting to make their exit from Sunee Plaza.

A few minutes later I wanted to leave. I had no desire to be around when a raid occurs.

Naturally, just my luck, my car was parked just outside of Sunee Plaza. Guess who discovered
he had a flat tire! My friend called his own boyfriend, who has a tire pump. While we were waiting
for him to arrive, we cooled our heels at the Po Pot restaurant.

Sure enough, at about 10:20 the police started arriving . . . in droves. Pickup truck after pickup truck,
loaded with police officers, entered Sunee Plaza. A large number of individual officers also arrived on motorcycles.

We saw them block off Sunee Plaza. Any under-age boys or boys on drugs were now trapped.
From what I understand, the police drug-tested and checked ID's of every single boy in Sunee Plaza, whether they were working in a bar or not.

I have a feeling, though, the police didn't reel in too many boys considering that just about everybody
in Sunee Plaza knew the raid was coming, at least an hour and a half in advance.
The bars had plenty of time to get rid of their under-age boys and I'm sure the boys on drugs had plenty of time to escape as well.

Once I had the tire in decent shape I wasn't about to hang around to watch the rest of it,
but any boys who ended up caught in the net would have to be either deaf or total idiots.

Everyone knew this raid was coming.

Now, why would I be thinking that there just may be someone in the police department
who gets paid to tip off the bar scene when a raid, especially a major raid, is about to occur?"

---------------

Thanks for sharing your insight GB...

TJ

Here is the correct version... If it quakes like a duck and walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

KQuill Qoute:


As the say. "just because a dog is born in a barn, doesn't make it a horse!" The main, not all, users of Yaa Baa frequent Sunnee Plaza and it is a known fact. You can paint, clean, wipe it, wash it, you cannot alter it.

Maybe it's jus too late at night...but what in the fuck are you talking about?

Dodger,

Evertime the subject comes up and Sunnee is mentioned you get a million reasons from other members who will give you different reasons why Sunnee is raided usually blaming it on reasons totally unconnected to reality, saying what a great place it is and how much it has changed and why don't people understand, and that there is no underage,Yaa Baa etc etc. believing themseves, if they say it to enough people, enough times, they will be believed.

They then attempt to justify it stating what a fantastic job has been done of Don Plaza, the clubbing club etc to divert peoples attention and that it is now Cafe culture and it has all changed, the Police don't get it and are singling the place out etc etc

My point was, you can do what you want with it [Sunnee] and look at it any way you wish, you can't change what it really is, or pretend it is something else or different from what it is, that's what the term means.

I was actually getting in there first, before the barrage of defences began.

Sunnee is a haven for the Yaa Baa boys, the runaways, the underage, the thieves and those on the run from the law for one reason or another.

I go there, I visit David at Come Inn, Erich at Don Plaza,Peter at Krazy Dragon but I am usually well alert to what is going on, never kid myself it is something different, and don't get taken in by the 101 scams that are usually going on there simultaneously.

Aunty.

I don't think it is connected to LMTU's affair, they usually start these antics around low season, and as Wes has said, it is also a way of extracting the "coin of the realm' from the bars, easy money and the owners have no one to complain to!

Multi raids, will be happening simultaneously against the establishments they know are on the "dark side" singling them out and dealing with them.

They had found problems in Pattayaland Soi 1 also with some of the girlie bars on their last raids there, hence,the return visit.

I think regards LMTU, that matter will be well down the line now, and hopefully heading in the right direction, and I would like to think towards justice.

Here is the correct version... If it quakes like a duck and walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck.


Boogyman,

Correcting Kevin eh??, detailed explanation of what I said is further up the page! For the record,in America, Does a duck "quake"????

Here is the correct version... If it quakes like a duck and walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck.


Boogyman,

Correcting Kevin eh??, detailed explanation of what I said is further up the page! For the record,in America, Does a duck "quake"????

Hi,

As an Englishman, I think, the American version of the duck refers to, in my reasoning, "It is what it is,what it is" in the English version, I am referring to " Don't pretend it is something different, from what it really is"


Get it, got it, good!

[travelerjim]

Gaybutton has posted this reply on Baht Stop...

http://www.baht-stop.com/forums/index.p ... topic=2563 (http://www.baht-stop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2563) .

"What else is new? Believe it or not, this was the first time I have ever personally witnessed
one of these raids. After seeing for myself the way this whole thing happened, now it would be
awfully difficult to convince me that these raids are anything more than meaningless publicity stunts.

I can't believe that everyone except the police knows exactly what goes on in some of these bars every night.
I would guess that I saw at least 40 to 50 police officers stage the raid last night, and that was just from the
Po Pot restaurant side. Most likely just as many initiated the raid from the Hollywood Disco side.

Once every blue moon we do hear about bars ending up shut down as a result of these raids.
I now believe the most likely reason for that is because the tipster(s) either was unable to tip
them off or couldn't tip them off in time.

The number of police officers involved in this raid was amazing.
Meanwhile, you know what it would take to clean up Sunee Plaza?
Just two or three uniformed police officers stationed at Sunee Plaza, continually strolling through.
I doubt it will ever happen. The bars would all be raising holy hell if that ever happened.
It would scare off too many customers.

On second thought, maybe even that wouldn't work. There are plenty of police on Walking Street,
but there is still plenty of crime going on there. But one thing I never hear about on Walking Street
is under-age sex arrests.

Every under-age sex arrest I have ever heard about involving Pattaya is "farang" getting in trouble
at their residences with local kids or some idiotic "farang" like that Frenchman who was recently
arrested for having taken an under-age boy from the streets of Sunee Plaza. I don't even recall any
arrests at all that involved "farang" who had taken boys "off" from a bar,
regardless of the boy's age.

Of course, it's getting more and more difficult to find a hotel that will allow under-age boys to enter.

That Frenchman, by the way, according to news reports will deported and blacklisted
from ever returning to Thailand again. (see http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml#hd8 ).

I just loved the caption next to the photo in that article, the part that identifies the Frenchman "seated center."
Really? Gee whiz, and without that I would have thought it must be the gentleman on the left.
I couldn't help but notice that even at the police station, having his picture taken, he still has a hand on the boy.

You know what else I never hear about? Under-age girls working at the girlie go-go bars.
Nobody is going to convince me that the only pedophiles that come to Pattaya are gay pedophiles.
I do not patronize the girlie bars, but I would be very surprised if it turns out that none of the girlie
bars employ under-age girls. How come we never hear anything about that?

I have not yet heard anything about the number of arrests that occurred last night,
but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same boys that were arrested last night are back in the bars tonight."

"What else is new? Believe it or not, this was the first time I have ever personally witnessed
one of these raids. After seeing for myself the way this whole thing happened, now it would be
awfully difficult to convince me that these raids are anything more than meaningless publicity stunts.

Several pick-up loads of boys, either underage, positively tested for drugs, or both have been carried away to police station. They will not have a very good time there. And there is more to follow.

I can't believe that everyone except the police knows exactly what goes on in some of these bars every night.
I would guess that I saw at least 40 to 50 police officers stage the raid last night, and that was just from the
Po Pot restaurant side. Most likely just as many initiated the raid from the Hollywood Disco side.

Once every blue moon we do hear about bars ending up shut down as a result of these raids.
I now believe the most likely reason for that is because the tipster(s) either was unable to tip
them off or couldn't tip them off in time.

The number of police officers involved in this raid was amazing.
Meanwhile, you know what it would take to clean up Sunee Plaza?
Just two or three uniformed police officers stationed at Sunee Plaza, continually strolling through.
I doubt it will ever happen. The bars would all be raising holy hell if that ever happened.
It would scare off too many customers.

Within two or three days all is back to “normal”. Just wait and see ..

On second thought, maybe even that wouldn't work. There are plenty of police on Walking Street,
but there is still plenty of crime going on there. But one thing I never hear about on Walking Street
is under-age sex arrests.

Every under-age sex arrest I have ever heard about involving Pattaya is "farang" getting in trouble
at their residences with local kids or some idiotic "farang" like that Frenchman who was recently
arrested for having taken an under-age boy from the streets of Sunee Plaza. I don't even recall any
arrests at all that involved "farang" who had taken boys "off" from a bar,
regardless of the boy's age.

Of course, it's getting more and more difficult to find a hotel that will allow under-age boys to enter.

Yes. That’s good. With new registration rules are condos and apartment houses next who will face a more stringed control.

That Frenchman, by the way, according to news reports will deported and blacklisted
from ever returning to Thailand again. (see http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml#hd8 ).

...as predicted before. What the report wouldn’t not mention is the amount of month which has been squeezed out of Mr Luc Bernard Michel Rousslle. Nothing is fro free …

French police will be waiting for him at the airport…

I just loved the caption next to the photo in that article, the part that identifies the Frenchman "seated center."
Really? Gee whiz, and without that I would have thought it must be the gentleman on the left.
I couldn't help but notice that even at the police station, having his picture taken, he still has a hand on the boy.

You know what else I never hear about? Under-age girls working at the girlie go-go bars.
Nobody is going to convince me that the only pedophiles that come to Pattaya are gay pedophiles.
I do not patronize the girlie bars, but I would be very surprised if it turns out that none of the girlie
bars employ under-age girls. How come we never hear anything about that?

I have not yet heard anything about the number of arrests that occurred last night,
but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same boys that were arrested last night are back in the bars tonight."[/quote]

Police might have several dozens invited into soi 9.... for further interviews and mandatory fine between 500 and 2000 TBT each.

[travelerjim]

Pattaya City News report of Police raids...

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_18_08_50_3.htm

South Pattaya Bars checked by Bangkok and local Police
despite calls for leniency in these low season months.

On Friday Night, Police and District Officials made checks on bars located in the South Pattaya area.
Checks on licenses, explicit shows and employees were made.

We begin at Soi Sunee Plaza in South Pattaya where Banglamung District Licensing Officials
accompanied by Police Colonel Sutin, the Superintendent of Pattaya Police and a group of Officers inspected many bars.

Almost 100 people were checked to ensure they were carrying their ID Cards and if they had recently consumed met-amphetamine.

License checks were also made on many of the bars.

At the end of the exercise, 20 people were arrested after failing urine tests.

There were no licensing irregularities found.

more...

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_18_08_50_3.htm .

TJ

[travelerjim]

Pattaya People Newspaper reports on riday night raid!

Police Raid Night Entertainment Venues

http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.as ... ticle=7139 (http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.asp?Folder=16&IdArticle=7139) .

"A group of police officers were ordered to go around Pattaya to make strict inspections of entertainment venues in the night of Friday 17th August

The first area that the team decided to go to was the famous Soi Sunee, in South Pattaya, where many reports have come through to the police that in some bars there are illegal activities going on; some venues allow under aged children in, which is against the law.

From an inspection of 200 people in Soi Sunee, the police found that 184 had their identification cards on them and 16 people did not carry their ID cards, also 11 peopleтАЩs urine tests proved positive that they had just taken drugs. They were all taken to the police station and charged accordingly.

News stories placed on this website are short versions. If you would like the full story, please read the Pattaya People Weekly newspaper."

TJ

No one is fooled by expats, who troll the neighborhoods of Pattaya, being disingenuous to suggest that they are surprised by these raids.

The other possibility is the need for evaluation of geriatric function scales.

Sunee Plaza raid ...
"What else is new? Believe it or not, this was the first time I have ever personally witnessed
one of these raids. After seeing for myself the way this whole thing happened, now it would be
awfully difficult to convince me that these raids are anything more than meaningless publicity stunts.

AMEN!!!!!!

Amazing...this sounds exactly like the raid in May. I stayed and watched the whole show close up. The street urchin were long gone before the police arrived. The police were friendly and jovial, the boys were joking as they pissed in the bottles and then placed them on the pool table at Corner Bar. The police gave a two hour "heads up" to all the clubs and the only surprise is that some of the boys didn't have their IDs with them, and a few, who were on drugs, were too dumb to leave the plaza.

And yes, the Police are not stupid. They know how to live a middle to upper middle class lifestyle while earning a poverty wage.

But what is most amazing are the number of posters, here and elsewhere, than constantly post about what a terrible sinful place Sunee is, but are, none the less, there most every night..or better yet the ones who never go to Sunee but still feel as if they have a right to an opinion about something that they only have second hand information about.

The raids are all about increasing police income ,and to a lesser degree about positive publicity to prove that the police are working hard.

[fedssocr]

from the same issue of Pattaya Mail quoted above:

"Tourist Police descended on Pattaya Beach in the early hours of August 3 to round up the prostitutes and transvestites who have been annoying and embarrassing tourists by openly soliciting sex from beneath the palm trees and thereby sullying PattayaтАЩs reputation."

Sullying Pattaya's reputation????? That IS Pattaya's reputation!

Posted on Ting&Tongs Gay Thailand by Mrs Bucket (of Topman)

http://www.gaytingtong.com/topic1740.ht ... 74543a749a (http://www.gaytingtong.com/topic1740.html?sid=e1ec12ba68b85478736d6074543a749 a)

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007

Post subject: Sunee Plaza Raids

Tonight at around 11p.m. local time Police from Bangkok, Chonburi & Pattaya raided Sunee Plaza.

All exits were sealed off and ALL Boys were taken from ALL Bars for drugs tests.

Sunee Plaza business suffers again.

Anyone have any further info.

Fact is that only 11 real Pattaya Police officers followed the chief of the district. The rest were Volunteers from Banglamung. Just some Thais playing police in their Uniforms. No Police from Bangkok or Chonburi. Also the matter of fact was that they the beer and go go bar boys/staff have to pee to check them for Ya Baa or other drugs. Fact is, that they arrest some Managers in the Area, because some Boys checked positive. Fact is that the chief of the district wanted, that the Managers sign a prepared Statement that the have in the Bar Ya Baa Party's and the Managers gave them the drugs. Fact is that some of the Managers released on Bail (50000 Baht)6:30 in the morning. Fact is that the chief of the district want to proof his existence, because he is under surveillance from the governor for taking bribes. Fact is that the Pattaya police officers helped the chief of the district, but they didn't like it. The chief of the district want to give them selves a warm shower for his innocence and good Publicity. Beware the country of smile have many eyes.

Sunnee is a haven for the Yaa Baa boys, the runaways, the underage, the thieves and those on the run from the law for one reason or another.

I go there, I visit David at Come Inn, Erich at Don Plaza,Peter at Krazy Dragon but I am usually well alert to what is going on, never kid myself it is something different, and don't get taken in by the 101 scams that are usually going on there simultaneously. ..................KQuill

The number of police officers involved in this raid was amazing.
Meanwhile, you know what it would take to clean up Sunee Plaza?
Just two or three uniformed police officers stationed at Sunee Plaza, continually strolling through.
I doubt it will ever happen. The bars would all be raising holy hell if that ever happened.
It would scare off too many customers.....Traveler Jim

I think if you combine these 2 posts you have the problem and solution. IF there would be uniformed security that would enforce keeping the underage runaways out of the small area of Sunee, it would be a good step forward.

I was there last night and 2 different bars owners said the same thing. The City does not really listen to them when they ask for help with the underage street kids. Many owners in Sunee want the same thing as many customers which is to get the street kids out of this adult entertainment area.

I don't think security would scare off customers, which differs from Traveler Jim's view. I believe that more people would come to the area. It is cheaper and more variety from other areas. Boys,Boys, Boys has had a uniformed security guard for many years. He does a good job. I give him a tip every once in a while because I appreciate his service.

Even though this does not "solve" everyones concern it would be a good start.

Yes, there are those that say not all the owners agree. BUT all the owners want to make money. Raids that take all there staff including waiters and cashiers away from their business is not helpful. All of those I know who go to Sunee enjoy it for the reasons KQuill suggests...........and would be VERY HAPPY if the underage street kids would not be allowed into this privately owned area which consists of just a few sois of adult entertainment. I believe there are a few strong owners that could get the area under control WITHOUT police, but using private security, if they had the desire and saw profits increase.

You wouldn't need a patrolling policeman, all you need is to put a police box at each entrance and let them monitor you enters. Once you enter the area you would no longer be under the prying eyes and would feel free to do what you normally would do. the key is to stop the boys from entering. The down side is that there are quite a few familes living in the area and they should have the freedom to live without the scruitney.

Dear Pattayamale,

I believe you are correct and would think private security and a street committee would, for sure work.

My reasons:

If the Police come and monitor the situation, it will be for their reasons only, and which Foreigner over there is going to risk the fury or wrath of the local Police??

You would be very unwise to do such a thing or tell them they are not doing their job correctly!

A private security firm, which would not be a lot of money shared between all businesses,you can tell them exactly what you need, require and what is expected. They could enforce these rules in this area.

This coupled with security cameras , the Police would not really want to challenge them too much, as not only are they doing their job,[the bar owners and their responsibilities] they are being seen to be doing it.

If a business is dissatisfied, they could go to their chosen committee person regards security and have the company clear the problem or be replaced.

Not so difficult. Half of this board knows where the danger areas and/bars are, where the Yaa Baa and glue sniffers hang out, so therefore, so do the bar owners.

Not all the owners in Boyztown like each other, [ maybe a bit better now!!!!] but they do work together for business reasons and the gay community as a whole, its common sense!

The problem with security is that half the bars in Sunnee would not pay. Half there customers are there for the younger boys.
To pay security to get rid of the younger boys would lose them half there customers.
Its a no win situation.

The problem with security is that half the bars in Sunnee would not pay. Half there customers are there for the younger boys.
To pay security to get rid of the younger boys would lose them half there customers.
Its a no win situation.

Sin city queen,

You make a good point which I had not thought of, because I have no interest in them particularly!

OK,Therefore, they have to live with it then, [ bar owners and people who frequent Sunnee] the raids, the occasional arrest of the Paedophile, and the robberies and beating ups that sometimes occur and put it down to one of the hazards of going to the area.

You sleep with dogs, don't complain if you wake up with fleas! [ hope Dodger manages to get this one!]

I suppose it has its dangers just like cruising has, most posters here are old enough and mature enough to understand the dangers involved with both.

[quoteYou sleep with dogs, don't complain if you wake up with fleas![/quote]

Love it, aint heard that one for years. And one can take that literally!

The problem with security is that half the bars in Sunnee would not pay. Half there customers are there for the younger boys.
To pay security to get rid of the younger boys would lose them half there customers.
Its a no win situation.

Sin city queen,

You make a good point which I had not thought of, because I have no interest in them particularly!

OK,Therefore, they have to live with it then, [ bar owners and people who frequent Sunnee] the raids, the occasional arrest of the Paedophile, and the robberies and beating ups that sometimes occur and put it down to one of the hazards of going to the area.

You sleep with dogs, don't complain if you wake up with fleas! [ hope Dodger manages to get this one!]

I suppose it has its dangers just like cruising has, most posters here are old enough and mature enough to understand the dangers involved with both.

If you squeeze all the “unwanted” people at Sunee Plaza the place would be empty soon.

1. Even more of the young and sometimes “dangerous” crowd would head for the Beach road or Bali Hai – and there admired in tow.
2. A strict regime like in Boyztown is impossible since the layout of the hole Sunee Plaza and adjoined Day-Night area is totally different. The strict policies as BoysTown have forced all the wanted trade out towards Sunee Plaza or Day-Night.

It is the same in Bangkok.

It’s difficult to meet some Thai under 21 in Silom Soi 2 or 4 but just have all look at Thanon Silom itself. All the one cruising for good knows what is assembled outside, not far from the soi’s entrances and waiting.

It’s not just Pattaya or Bangkok, the same happened everywhere.

Everything commercial, including sex, attracts is crime including drugs.

ttom/Sin city queen,

You both make great sensible points, the last thing to say, from my side, has got to be, Why take unnecessary risks, and if you do, don't complain when it backfires!!

Just how much money do you think the bar owners have left after they pay their monthly stipen to the police? Asking them to pay for security when they already pay the police is just out of the question. It's about all they can do during slow season to manage to staff and meet expenses. Thenwe have people on here trying to figure out how not to pay an off fee or complaining because the drink prices went up a little. Its a no win situation for the bar owners.

The problem with security is that half the bars in Sunnee would not pay. Half there customers are there for the younger boys.
To pay security to get rid of the younger boys would lose them half there customers.
Its a no win situation.

I suggest that it is a win situation for this reason....money.
"Times are changin". I believe that the idea that "most customers" in Sunee are only there for under legal age boys is not true and really insulting to most gay men. I do not doubt a small minority of customers may enjoy under legal age, but in no way the majority. The reason I believe this is I know many people that go (and some that refuse to go) to Sunee area. I know of none that go for under legal age sex. Many do like young men between 18 -25 or so.

I really believe that if the under legal age street gangs were not allowed into Sunee, all business owners would see more profit.

I think it is stereotypical to think gays are pedophiles. I do not believe it to be any truer than to say straights are. (I think the "Church"....never mind).

I repeat that KQuill had it right when he gave reasons people like me go to Sunee. It is a relaxed gay area. Many less expensive beer bars and many more venues to choose from.

Friends and I had dinner at "Clubbers" (200 baht +) then went to "Come-In" for a drink (90 baht for Red wine, 45 for ice tea). No pressure to "off" or buy many drinks. The entire evening (7:30 - 10pm) including dinner and tips cost me less than 350 baht for my share. Great service at both places. The waiter at "Come Inn" claimed to be 26. When I challenged him by saying "I think 28", he smiled and said "ok, 27". My only complaint was the street kids.... Who do not live in the small area of Sunee Plaza. Families live outside of the 2 by 2 block area of Sunee.

I think it is stereotypical to think gays are pedophiles. I do not believe it to be any truer than to say straights are. (I think the "Church"....never mind).And let's not forget that old heterosexual paedophile, the Prophet Mohammed. On the other hand, language shapes perception, and gays hardly ever talk about "men" - they talk about "boys"

And straights talk of girls or ladys....hardly ever hear in Pattaya the women referred to as women...so the point is what?

...the movie "Where the boys are" did not refer to under legal age MEN. Do you mean the term "kids or kiddies"????

And straights talk of girls or ladys....hardly ever hear in Pattaya the women referred to as women...so the point is what?I imagine in the lower class milieu you inhabit that may be so. Language is all about context. Since gays are generally despised anyway, and their language always has sexual overtones, "boys" always has a sexually-charged meaning when used by a gay person. Straights, on the other hand can use words much more loosely because they are, by definition, "straight" and of course, the majority. The most telling comment about "tolerance" of gays was in an episode of Seinfeld where one of them was suspected of being gay. The immediate reaction was aggressive denial; only when it was cleared up were the weasel words of "of course, there's nothing wrong with being gay" trotted out

Sunee Plaza is just a place. Real pedos don't need a specific place. You are foolish to think Sunee Plaze is the problem, as foolish as the BIBs.

[globalwanderer]

yes sunee is a place... a place known for availability of under age boys... but yes also a place with many bars who won't cater for those who want to break the law

Having stayed in pattaya for the previous month, enjoying Sunee on many occasions and being somewhat of a regular there for the last few years I feel that I can make some pertinent points.
1. It is low season and the vast majority of sunee visitors are regulars or residents. No bar is going to alienate this core customer base.
2. The village atmosphere of sunee which makes it such an attraction above such places as Boys Town should not be endangered.
3. As far as I am aware, it is not illegal for young people to walk into or through sunee. It is in the middle of a residential area and the thought of 'private security' will bring trouble.
4. There is a view, often from bar owners who are struggling, that if the customers who seek out 'youth opportunities' in sunee are shunned, then they will be replaced by large numbers of more traditional gay customers who at present refuse to come. There is no evidence for this. The waves created by the Germanification of the plaza due to Clubbers and the new transvestite owned bar next to Crazy Dragon are behind this current feeling.
5. At present, and without mentioning names, there is one sunee bar where youngsters go, another two where younger teens can sit with farangs, 2 or 3 go go bars where the dancers hover in age just either side of 18. All other bars and clubs are within the law. The street scene can be more varied.
6. The younger thai element, not all of which are homeless, within the plaza have all been taken into care through various police and social worker schemes many times over the years and most return immediately upon release. This means that the problem is self perpetuating.
7. Over the last few years the problem caused by the more blatant exploitation and misuse of Thai youngsters has certainly been reduced. Alas, this does not extend to the drug scene.
8. The younsters who do work in the sunee area, both of legal and ilegal age are not there as some sort of global peadophile theme park, but just because they need the money to support themselves, their families, their expensive lifestyle. Farangs who go there are out for a good time, whatever that entails. Its possible to be a little too judgemental about this.
9. Whever you find teenagers, you will find drug issues. Thus, sunee has its fare share of young people who will fail drug tests. This will not go away simply because, as one poster naively put it. security will stop undergage gangs entering the plaza.

Unfortunately you won't win many friends here by trying to be objective. I, of course, always try to be as objective as possible, hence my incontrovertible opinion (shared by many in Bangkok including the late unlamented boygeenyus) that Pattaya is perceived world-wide as little more than a seaside brothel

Unfortunately you won't win many friends here by trying to be objective. I, of course, always try to be as objective as possible, hence my incontrovertible opinion (shared by many in Bangkok including the late unlamented boygeenyus) that Pattaya is perceived world-wide as little more than a seaside brothel
I got news for you. In most of the west, Bangkok is regarded as nothing more than a large urban brothel.
Both of these idiotic generalizations are false.

I got news for you. In most of the west, Bangkok is regarded as nothing more than a large urban brothel.
Both of these idiotic generalizations are false.I'm sorry - I didn't realize that was news to anyone; nor that the one about Pattaya is false. Pattaya consists of nothing but brothels and sex-for-sale; Bangkok does have large commercial activities beyond the smaller commercial activities of Patpong

I imagine in the lower class milieu you inhabit that may be so. Language is all about context. Since gays are generally despised annyway,...........hominter

Your bigotry looses the argument. Try to be factual. "Language is all about context"??? Means what....???(as in we had a gay time, didn't we boys? 1950's )
"lower class"...does this refer to gays or to me or my opinion?

Use your brain and argue facts not stereotypical speech which is untrue.....

... someone else in complete denial. Perhaps he belongs to the George School of Buddhism. Since Pattaya is, by definition, merely a seaside brothel then clearly its denizens occupy a low class milieu. And the point about stereotypes is that most people can be stereotyped, many stereotypes are true, and doing so is clearly a basic human response to dealing with the vast mass of their fellow beings

[ned kelly-old]

As a generalization, I find that I often agree with the sentiments expressed in your posts.
You seem to have it in for Pattaya though.....sort of a Bangkok superiority. There may well be good first hand reasons for this.
Just out of curiosity when was the last time you were there?....Pattaya that is, as I'm assuming you live in Bangkok.

... someone else in complete denial. Perhaps he belongs to the George School of Buddhism. Since Pattaya is, by definition, merely a seaside brothel then clearly its denizens occupy a low class milieu. And the point about stereotypes is that most people can be stereotyped, many stereotypes are true, and doing so is clearly a basic human response to dealing with the vast mass of their fellow beings.

Again, no facts. Can you not use your brain and debate? You seem to be like some Catholic priest who can only echo shallow sounds with no basis of truth. It seems to me that you try to show that you have some superior knowledge and facts be damn.

People can look at the statistical growth of Pattaya with new upscale hotels, apartments, restaurants and housing.

It is easy to be a mud sling-er as you choose but those that do so are much more important in their diminished minds than to thoughtful people. Take the challenge and debate facts if you have them.

The post is about improving an area that many gay men enjoy visiting. Can you add something? Probably not

Transport the gay bar scene in Pattaya to Upper Siberia. Sure, there would still be a spattering of gay tourists. But not many. It is the total package. And Pattaya is a wonderfully entertaining and interesting place, (anal) warts and all.

I got news for you. In most of the west, Bangkok is regarded as nothing more than a large urban brothel.
Both of these idiotic generalizations are false.I'm sorry - I didn't realize that was news to anyone; nor that the one about Pattaya is false. Pattaya consists of nothing but brothels and sex-for-sale; Bangkok does have large commercial activities beyond the smaller commercial activities of Patpong

I do think you are being a little unfair Homi'. Personally I found Bangkok a mass sprawl, an urban jungle with all the problems a city of such a size usually suffers - traffic, pollution, crowds, shopping malls everywhere. Of course it is a great starting point for visiting many great cultural and historical sites and has some good bars and restaraunts etc.

Pattaya on the other hand is a hell of a lot smaller, it does have it's own problems but it also has cooling walks along the beach, bars with regulars to chat to rather than mainly (or solely) tourists, it's so much easier to navigate around and offers a better sense of belonging.

Homi', you may wish to concede that for some, Bangkok is a great place to visit but not to live and that Pattaya does offer somethings which Bangkok does not.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

which is why I fit in so well.

It's believed that Homitern ( just like the balmy old Colonel (surely bald old Colonel)) resides in Bangkok and hasn't been to Pattaya by personal choice. That's my personal choice-I can't stand the competition and have had him barred.

There's only so much low class milieu to go around.

Just out of curiosity when was the last time you were there?I do have some standards - I'm proud to say I've never been (and I've lived in Thailand 20 years)

I do think you are being a little unfair Homi'. Personally I found Bangkok a mass sprawl, an urban jungle with all the problems a city of such a size usually suffers - traffic, pollution, crowds, shopping malls everywhere. Of course it is a great starting point for visiting many great cultural and historical sites and has some good bars and restaraunts etc.Personally I'm not interested in anything but big cities. I wouldn't go to Peking - far too much air pollution (and good luck to all attendees at the Olympic Games next year) but Bangkok is bearable. But big cities have everything (and more) that I could possibly want - and I should say I have no interest in almost all the things you say are its virtues. Johnson's famous dictum about "when a man is tired of London" can be applied pretty much to every big city at one level or another; I wouldn't have it any other way

[Impulse]

ploreHomi says he has never been to Pattaya,yet criticizes it.Hhhmmm. Its a good thing we had brave exrs who discovered the world was round.It would still be flat while Homi stayed home fearing he would fall off the earth. I couldnt wait to get out of Bkk and arrive at the beaches of Pattaya.Sure they suck,but its a short boat ride to the islands just off the coast where the beaches are pristine.And when Ocean one is built the skyline will start to rival that of the city of angels. :cheers: Rocket(Who knows a fun town when he sees it)

I got news for you. In most of the west, Bangkok is regarded as nothing more than a large urban brothel.
Both of these idiotic generalizations are false.I'm sorry - I didn't realize that was news to anyone; nor that the one about Pattaya is false. Pattaya consists of nothing but brothels and sex-for-sale; Bangkok does have large commercial activities beyond the smaller commercial activities of Patpong


Yes it does,Have you ever been to any???

Bangkok also has its seedier side. It probably has more places to pick up underage than Pattaya does. Its just spread out over a much larger area. There was an article a couple years ago that mentioned several malls and parks were popular. You also have th internet shops which are always filled with after school lads. Pattaya just got the pedo label as it is a much smaller area and more congregate in a tighter area.

[andrewcraig]

"when a man is tired of London" can be applied pretty much to every big city at one level or another; I wouldn't have it any other way

Why do you seek to dominate this forum which appears to be all about Pattaya,

when you detest Pattaya so much

Obviously you need this forum more than it needs you

When have you been to Pattaya and is Pattaya tired of you

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

"Bangkok also has its seedier side."..the understatement of the century !!

. :fucyc:

Why do you seek to dominate this forum which appears to be all about Pattaya, when you detest Pattaya so muchLast time I looked it was called "Gay Thailand". I know there's a school of thought that holds that Pattaya is the centre of the universe but that's not what this Forum is about

Bangkok also has its seedier side. It probably has more places to pick up underage than Pattaya does. Its just spread out over a much larger area. There was an article a couple years ago that mentioned several malls and parks were popular. You also have th internet shops which are always filled with after school lads. Pattaya just got the pedo label as it is a much smaller area and more congregate in a tighter area.
The voice of an expert ??

Bangkok also has its seedier side. It probably has more places to pick up underage than Pattaya does. Its just spread out over a much larger area. There was an article a couple years ago that mentioned several malls and parks were popular. You also have th internet shops which are always filled with after school lads. Pattaya just got the pedo label as it is a much smaller area and more congregate in a tighter area.
The voice of an expert ??

Not as much of an expert as you appear to be on Sunee Plaza, with your supposedly once a year visits. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/whistle.gif


G.

Sorry George. I did read the post incorrectly. My apologies!

Well lets see I have had 32 trips in 13 years. I am by no means an expert on anything but I do know an old senile bag of wind that post under the name of George. Your time has passed George go back to your hole in the ground.

Who rattled your cage Luvthai? You need to read posts properly, as my comments were in answer to Buaseng, not you. His post was the one having a dig at you, not mine. Had one too many this evening have we, or do you make a habit of being rude to other posters for no reason whatsoever?

G.

For those that follow the Sunnee Plaza saga, a news report carried by the BBC here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6960232.stm) quotes the UK as having 5000 child prostitutes under the age of 18, with one quarter of those being male.