Butterflying

[Impulse]

After reading Dodgers always intersting blog I felt a bit sad that many of us may very well spend the rest of our days never having a long term relationship.Of course the future is not known which gives us hope that this could change. It seems too easy in Thailand with all the choices to just go from guy to guy and not get commited to the hassles of a relationship. On reflection of my last trip there almost a year ago,I kinda feel sorry for the boys I had spent some nights with.I offed the same guy four nights in Euroboys and the fifth time there,while "my" boy was on stage,another hot number sat next to me and I ended up taking him back with me.The next night I went there,the guy I had offed four times in a row came up to me and asked me if I was going to bar fine him.Ok ,he works in a bar and thats his job,to be chosen whenever a customer chooses. A better example was this guy from a host bar in Sunee,as I was greeted by several eager to be taken boys I started conversation with the one I was interested in.We had a great time that night and the next day we went to the beach mall where I left him to go shopping and whatever.The next night he saw me walking nearby his bar and ran out so excited to see me.I hardly recognised him as he got his hair done and a real cool tshirt,wow he looked good.But I told him that maybe later Id drop by his bar and hook up with him.I knew he was disapointed but Im only on vacation and no sense pretending were in a relationship.But these guys must hate having to meet new farangs all the time,Im sure they like the security of knowing that they will be with one guy if only for a week or two,or three. I know its the reality of the business,just feeling a bit sad for all the boys Ive been with and hope they are doing well.There are so many new faces every year,where have the old ones gone?

I have tried a relationship there but decided I did not want to keep another mans boy. Long distance relationships do not work and since I cannot be there full time yet I decided that being a butterfly is definately less stressfull to me. I do have my favorites and I spend most my time there with just a couple regulars but the door is always open to meet new guys. The one relationship I tried lasted four years and then another four years of just being friends(no sex). It just was so stressful with me finding out 3 other guys were sending money to him also. Sad thing is I think he did like me and not just for the money. And then there were two guys I could have really fallen for but they liked the ladies. Good thing about them is they were upfront about it.

[Dodger]

Rocket,

I wouldn't worry too much about enjoying your freedom as a Butterfy, as the scenarios you describe are the norm for the business. The working boys are very resilient when it comes to this, although will continue in their attempts to get you to off them multiple times until they've exhausted all hope. This is just a part of how the business operates. And it's a good practice to remember that it is a business.

Now, having said that, I also think it's important to be considerate about their feelings by using some common sense. When I would off a certain boy multiple times from the same establishment, I felt more comfortable (and I'm sure he did as well) by not offing another boy from the same place, at least during the same holiday period. This way the boy doesn't lose face - and I don't either.

Some farangs have a pattern of offing a different boy every single night, regardless if they are selected from the same establishment or not, and I actually don't see anything wrong with this, because, let's face it, that's what this business is all about. I just think it's a good idea not to forget to practice some discretion along the way.

If you find a boy that you really like, whatever you do, don't do what I did...LOL The recommended practice for any visiting farang is to just leave this place behind when you pack your suitcase.

mai pen rai

Both are not really popular in Thailand. It’s not the way of making really good friends.

If you are strictly down to business, just pay and jump, you're an tricky grounds - nothing else but a walking ATM (if you're lucky).


In Thailand there are no secrets.

[Wesley]

You can be to persistent, I often like to go back to the same bar to look again only to find myself glued to last nights boy. It is really hard for me to say no, as a result if he tends to glue me more than once I find another bar. That is when your escort can come in really handy. He can hurt their feelings for you.

... only to find myself glued to last nights boyThat cum can be a rather sticky substance, can't it? :compress:

[Wesley]

Nuff said

Not that I would put myself above such a a deed!

[Dboy]

The recommended practice for any visiting farang is to just leave this place behind when you pack your suitcase.

So true, but so difficult.

Dboy

I It just was so stressful with me finding out 3 other guys were sending money to him also. Sad thing is I think he did like me and not just for the money. .

Most of us have learned the hardway that a long distance relationship with a moneyboy or gogo boy doesn't work. You will be one of maybe half a dozen guys who send him money and consider him "their" boyfriend.

Long Distance relationships CAN work.. if you have the right guy. Preferably educated, with a normal 9 to 5 job who doesn't spend all his spare time in the gay bars and clubs.

I It just was so stressful with me finding out 3 other guys were sending money to him also. Sad thing is I think he did like me and not just for the money. .

Most of us have learned the hardway that a long distance relationship with a moneyboy or gogo boy doesn't work. You will be one of maybe half a dozen guys who send him money and consider him "their" boyfriend.

Long Distance relationships CAN work.. if you have the right guy. Preferably educated, with a normal 9 to 5 job who doesn't spend all his spare time in the gay bars and clubs.

I do know some long distant relationships which are working nicely since many years. I know about some Thai people who are deeply disappointed due to false promises made by there foreign "friends".

As often in live, nothing is the same all the time. It’s pending on individuals and situations.

Always wondered what papillon meant in the context of the heart, like "fuck my kidneys I love you so".

This thread at last explains it. I had a mere three second glance with a French national in Ibiza one evening in a bar, I only stayed five minutes, it was a stones throw from where I was staying. However he followed me home and spent the rest of the night shouting papillon plaintively from behind the high walls of my villa, I assumed he was stark raving mad, but now I see it was his raging hormones as well.

Always wondered what papillon meant in the context of the heart, like "fuck my kidneys I love you so".

This thread at last explains it. I had a mere three second glance with a French national in Ibiza one evening in a bar, I only stayed five minutes, it was a stones throw from where I was staying. However he followed me home and spent the rest of the night shouting papillon plaintively from behind the high walls of my villa, I assumed he was stark raving mad, but now I see it was his raging hormones as well.

live is an excellent teacher ..

Thanks ttom, you brought up a very interesting question. Who makes the most promises? Farangs or the boys? Who breaks the most promises? From my trips there I would have to say the farangs make and break the most promises. What do you all think?

[Wesley]

I generally keep the promises and if not there is a really good reason I didn't

[asdsrfr-old]

I think it's human nature to always want a bit of what we don't have. I think most people who really want a serious relationship would have better luck in their own country, with someone in their own age group. That being said, I don't most of us who frequent the Thailand nightlife really want that sort of relationship.

Whenever I find myself longing for a relationship I realize that I realize that I already have many in a sense with the long term friendships that I have here at home. Even though those guys are not boyfriends, I know that they will be there for me and vice/versa. I also had two long term boyfriends totaling over 17 years together between the two--so I've kind of done that and now it's time to be free of commitment.

I find the Thai guys can be a bit clingy, whether out of genuine affection or a sense of business, so it's important to decide what you want out of your vacation rather than risk having it hijacked by someone who wants to be with you every night while you want to be out being a butterfly.

[Thai_Faen-old]

Rocket,

If you find a boy that you really like, whatever you do, don't do what I did...LOL The recommended practice for any visiting farang is to just leave this place behind when you pack your suitcase.

mai pen rai

Agree with Dodger on this one. Once bitten twice shy comes to mind on this subject.

Thai_Faen :bounce:

Thanks ttom, you brought up a very interesting question. Who makes the most promises? Farangs or the boys? Who breaks the most promises? From my trips there I would have to say the farangs make and break the most promises. What do you all think?

I do talk quite often to some very disappointed and disillusioned Asian person. Everything went fine for a “very” short period of time and than finally all promises and hopes collapsed.

Some foreigners do have the money, and behave like pigs. They really give a dam what’s happened at the end.

I hate dishonest people of any kind and avoid them. Maybe this is the reason why I limit my contacts to a very few but good foreign friends only.

Many more Asian people where good to me and never ever gave any reason to complain.

I always try to stick to the rules, to be awake, to proof flexibility but to be happy. That’s maybe the trick.

Thanks ttom, you brought up a very interesting question. Who makes the most promises? Farangs or the boys? Who breaks the most promises? From my trips there I would have to say the farangs make and break the most promises. What do you all think?

Yes very interesting, but if there is cash involved who is counting, you get what you pay for and leave? I think there must be a little problem with expectations being too high, especially from elderly lonely farang who want to believe rather than knowing what to believe, believe what ever suits you, but only for the time you are being made happy, try and forget that it is being paid for, the rest is extortion. And visa versa no doubt.

Thanks ttom, you brought up a very interesting question. Who makes the most promises? Farangs or the boys? Who breaks the most promises? From my trips there I would have to say the farangs make and break the most promises. What do you all think?

Yes very interesting, but if there is cash involved who is counting, you get what you pay for and leave? I think there must be a little problem with expectations being too high, especially from elderly lonely farang who want to believe rather than knowing what to believe, believe what ever suits you, but only for the time you are being made happy, try and forget that it is being paid for, the rest is extortion. And visa versa no doubt.


Hi,

I think that is a good summary Cedric.

Also, don't make promises you can't keep or as in many Pattaya cases, have no intention of keeping!

It is a service provided in a service industry, a lot of the rest is keeping the dream alive and the fantasy rolling until the cash is milked dry.

... seems to be a terminology that is associated with Thai people saying falang are - but Thai people are butterflies also - especially when your back is turned

... seems to be a terminology that is associated with Thai people saying falang are - but Thai people are butterflies also - especially when your back is turned - but then you wouldn't expect to wait around for the falang especially if they have ran out of money!

[catawampuscat]

The biological and evolutionary reasons for monogamy are basically for the male to preserve his
genetic material and ensure it is passed on to the next generation. The female seeks a male to
protect her and her progeny, provide them with the necessities of life for her and her genetic material.
Of course, there are social, religious, and other reasons for monogamy and marriage among heterosexuals
as it is destabilizing to have a hedonist society.

It is also the nature of the male to spread his genetic material around to ensure his progeny survives with
at least some of the females.
Romance and Love were not the historical reason why couples wed and bred but more important were property, money
and power.

When I seen an older couple or any one who has been together for decades, the majority seem to stay together
out of habit, for financial reasons, for companionship, for the children, out of shame or fear of what other will think.

Gay men are fortunate not to have this biological need and leave the breeding to the breeders and enjoy the pleasures
of sex without pregnancies and other hetero issues.

Some gay men feel the need to find new conquests daily and others find they stay with the first boy who makes them happy.

Some gay men, like myself, find a group of regulars works best. It can be a group of guys from 3 or 4 to many more.
As the guys are often coming or going somewhere or disappearing and reappearing, there are always openings for new
possible regulars and the interviewing is part of the system.

It keeps the boys on their toes when they realize you have many other options and they lose some of the power some
farangs give their boys so that the boys will like them and not leave them. What some think of love, trust, generosity, is
thought of as weakness by some of the boys/guys and they are always testing us to see what the limitations are.
Some foolish gaymen believe everything and keep the baht flowing for any reason the boy can come up with, so that the boy will love them and not leave them. They give the boy the power and man oh man do most of them suffer by confusing love, lust,power and sex...

We are fortunate to be able to choose monogamy or unfettered butterflying or something in between and there is no right
or wrong way. It is up to you... You know what works best for you! :cat:

[Bob]

The biological and evolutionary reasons for monogamy are basically for the male to preserve his
genetic material and ensure it is passed on to the next generation.

Not sure where you got that notion but it's illogical as well as silly. Presuming there is a biological and/or evolutionary reason for men to spread their genetic material to the next generation, the best way to do that is to deposit genes (fuck) every breeder you can find. Monogamy, at best, would limit the spread dramaticallly.

Bob, you ae correct, of course, any tv program like the cable channel Animal Planet, or animal expert, etc will tell you that monogomy is NOT the natural state course of action for males--where do some of these guys (cat) get this stuff---they just make it up or it seems like wishful thinking.

The natural course of action is just like Bob said, for males to fuck everything they can get their hands on in order to ensure the passing along of their genes--just watch any tv show about a lion pride and what happens there.

[catawampuscat]

Bob, I understand why some posters find you so irritating and petty.
I clearly stated in the next paragraph that is the nature of males to spread genetic
material around with other females. Duh!
And dear Sammy, we are not lions and many species do maintain monogamous lifelong relationships
if you watch nature shows on TV. Duh!

It is a shame when petty men take snippets out and play games to suit their own purposes. why, it
is just like Fox News in the USA.

This was a prelude to my point but some posters get their jollies from distracting and misdirecting postings
for their own petty pleasures.

And Sammy, the natural course of action is not for males to fuck everything they can get their hands on.
That is called rape. Animals that have a dominant male with a harem are not what this posting is about. You seem to think
misdirecting us,to show us how smart you think you are, is more important than the message. :cat: NOT.

http://i15.tinypic.com/6evltlt.gif

Cat, as usual, you spew some more nonsense--yes, there are some animal mates that are monogamous lifelong relationships, but that is, by far, the exception--I wonder which lioness has pressed rape charges with the game warden--of course, we were not talking about human animals--but wild or even domesticated animals/males will run around and fuck what they can--I wonder why most countries, including Thailand have an animal neutering and spaying program as the male dogs will run all over neighborhoods breeding with anything in heat--this is not true of just dominant male animals in a harem (for lions I don't think it is called a harem--it's a pride if you watch the animal channels, DUH!!

And you actually believe that men are not inclined to fuck everything they find attractive (or sometimes not) --because it is called RAPE--why do you think they have such laws, as without them, many men would be running around fucking anything and everything they can get their hands on--you on ladyboy hormones, missing your juice of the testosterone--no balls,. what?? What do you think men are inclined to do--sip sasparilleee and courtesy and bow and take a nice lad out on a date -- but don't forget the flowers--you must be one of those girley men!

[catawampuscat]

nobody except a few jerks give a shit about animal mating relationships or fucking lions.
Obviously I was using literary license to call a pride a harem but you feel the need to show how smart your are
so enjoy your moment..
Keep on spinning the truth. Now you use the words inclined to fuck ... what the fuck does inclined to fuck mean.?

Men are dogs and many will fuck anything. I never said otherwise.
Inclined to fuck has nothing to do with rape.
Your response is just spinning my original statement and playing word games and trying to misdirect and belittle.

The shit about lady boy hormones shows what a fucking waste of time you are and what a troll.
My reference to Fox News was right on and I can see you are one of those right wing fagots who think
they are so smart that they can just spin and spin the truth until some of the shit sticks.
Well, it sticks and you are the shit-master sammyjerk ..

It is unfortunate when posters try to make a point and some jerks spin the truth and nitpick and use personal attacks to
turn a thread into a pile of shit. Maybe time to flush this thread..... :puke:

Maybe time to flush this thread...


No...please, no.

http://i15.tinypic.com/6evltlt.gif

BG--why is it not a surprise you enjoy this?? Unfortunately, and entirely unintended, it seems I have a pushed a few hissyfit buttons with madam cat??!!

[Aunty]

BG--why is it not a surprise you enjoy this?? Unfortunately, and entirely unintended, it seems I have a pushed a few hissyfit buttons with madam cat??!!

Maybe so, SammyJ, but I wouldn't sit a zoology exam on animal behaviour and mating if I were you. I don't think you'd do to well!

I notice our resident drug-company-funded scientist has joined in

Don't worry, Aunty, not wanting to sit for any exam nor did I claim to be an expert--it was such basic knowledge, anyone watching the Animal Planet channel or Wild Kingdom shows, etc, would have been able to understand.

[Bob]

Bob, I understand why some posters find you so irritating and petty.


You started your post with a statement about the biological and evolutionary reasons for monagamy and, like I said, I have no idea where you got that notion but it simply wasn't accurate (and, if you thought about it, I'd guess you'd even agree).

In any event, I made a comment about the substance of your post and I didn't sling girlish comments at you. It'd be nice if you learned the difference.

Bob, once more, you are correct--it was me who slung the girlish comments that Cat's way and for that I apologize. Actually, I am not sure if they were girlsih comments or accusations of Cat being girlish?? Either way, I am sorry.

[catawampuscat]

Well, even a sort of apology is an apology and as one who can sling out nasty aspersions at times,
I am happy to settle this and will even withdraw my comments about the evolutionary and biological
stuff, I used with literary license and only as a pseudo-intellectual prelude to make my point.

I should have just written men are pigs and let it go at that.. :cat:

[Bob]

I should have just written men are pigs and let it go at that..

Well, I can go with that....lol. And so would most of my brothers' wives (one regularly wears a shirt which reads: They put one man on the moon, why can't they put them all?!?).

I should have just written men are pigs and let it go at that.Surely it's "All men are bastards"?

I also agree with that--at least in many or most cases--there must be cases of better behaved men, but without certain laws and the somewhat advance of civilization, many men I know, both gay and straight, would be quite happy to go back to the rape and pillage days.

... many men I know, both gay and straight, would be quite happy to go back to the rape and pillage days.Really? What proportion of the men you know, do you think? 50%? How many men do you know?