The "monk with a cell phone and camera" thread

[bao-bao]

Rather than invest any more time trying to explain this post, I've decided to just remove it.

It was not meant to show disrespect to anyone but has caused some misunderstandings.

It was an attempt to entertain that wasn't thought out well enough in advance and was misunderstood by some who took offense.

I've made an apology below.

What's the conflict? Monks aren't prohibited from using cell phones and taking pictures. They're people too, you know.

[x in pattaya]

especially the "short timers" who are doing it more for tradition than a deep belief in the way of life.


What a humungous generalization.

I know of a number of young men who were monks for short times and it was definitely motivated by a deep belief in the benefits they and their families would derive from these acts of faith. Assuming that the depth of their faith is in some proportion to the length of time they spend as monks is ridiculous.

In any event, tradition and faith are not separated by some wall where one is obliged to choose either/or.

I really find that comment offensive in this particular case and in the broader sense because it reduces over 60 million individuals to some off-hand subjective and ill-informed characterization.

Bao Bao,
You have a lot to learn about Thailand.

[bao-bao]

especially the "short timers" who are doing it more for tradition than a deep belief in the way of life.
What a humungous generalization.

I know of a number of young men who were monks for short times and it was definitely motivated by a deep belief in the benefits they and their families would derive from these acts of faith. Assuming that the depth of their faith is in some proportion to the length of time they spend as monks is ridiculous.

In any event, tradition and faith are not separated by some wall where one is obliged to choose either/or.

I really find that comment offensive in this particular case and in the broader sense because it reduces over 60 million individuals to some off-hand subjective and ill-informed characterization.

AGREED, guys... I, too, know "a number of young men who were monks for short times and it was definitely motivated by a deep belief in the benefits they and their families would derive from these acts of faith" - and I know a number of young men who did it for the same reason far too many gay men marry and have children: traditional society's and family's pressure. They did it because that's what was expected of them.

I've also spoken with a couple guys who invested what they said was a LOT of time on the phone and email to keep their - let's call it "farang support payments" coming in while they were serving their "dutiful time"! LOL

I didn't mean to cast any doubt on the deep faith of most who serve meaningful time in a religious setting. It was BECAUSE most I've known would've embraced a more austere lifestyle that it surprised me to see someone in robes acting more like a talent agent than a "traditional" alms-collecting monk.

I probably should've made that more clear! :cheers:

My apologies to anyone who misunderstood my original post and thought that I in any way meant disrespect to my faith or those who practice it in their own way.

He does have a lot to learn, doesn't he?

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

has a cell phone.

And why shouldn't he?

[Wesley]

I am not sure they are the same, some just do it because dad did it, I must do it , some are Christians who go to church to make their conscience feel better, some are Monks who I believe do it out of deep respect for their beliefs. Others do it because they can't do any thing else right. Or can't do any thing else at all. I personally believe that you can be both traditional and believe what you are doing is 100 % the right thing to do and all of them may have good intentions. Then there are others that do it simply because they can. There are many Monks in the world some are secular some are religious and some are Christian some Orientals and some Like this young man who happens to believe like I do, that religion and technology is not incompatible. Christianity kept us in the dark ages for centuries out of fear of change and enlightenment and what such enlightenment would bring. Mostly they would loose all their power over you. Especially, if you lost your traditional values or didn't go to church or attend the Morning mass or even miss the morning call to the Mosque. I happen to believe all of these have value in themselves. But none of them is to be regarded as the end to all that is sacred or holy or just.

There are no angels flying over my head and the church has accepted me as I am. I remain like I am and at peace with man and God and I have no regrets for leaving my wife 30 years ago to be who I am. At least what they get is me not some character I made up or became because my father told me it was the right thing to do, son.

[adman5000]

It was BECAUSE most I've known would've embraced a more austere lifestyle that it surprised me to see someone in robes acting more like a talent agent than a "traditional" alms-collecting monk.

My perspective based upon my personal observations is that a strong element of the monks lifestyle is education. I think this element is much stronger than the simple act of collecting alms. In today's global world, technology is a critical element of education (including the schools at the Wats). Since technology is marketed to consumers, some might view a monk using technology in conflict with the traditional or austere lifestyle, I think it is just an outcome of their education used to interface with today's world. Many monks I know love technology and view their use and knowledge of it as necessary to both improve their own education as well as to help and teach others. They view it as a necessary tool rather than a material possession. I think your picture was a great snapshot of the "old traditional" being impacted by society's use of technology.

[elephantspike]

I had no problem at all with that thread.

It's the 21st Century. Everyone has cell phones. I don't see why this is an issue; that a monk has a cell phone. Do you think it would have been an issue 100 years ago if a monk had a land-line telephone? What's the difference?

I myself have completely replaced my land-line with my cell the last few years.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

very nice pic !

[Wesley]

or how it as evolving, I don;t think anyone was offended by any remark here. I would leave things as they are if the young man with a cell phone happens to find this thread with his picture then you might want to delete it other than that all religions in my opinion are fair game for a poster and an opinion. We all at least on this forum seem to have one, an opinion that is, among other things

[Bob]

Not sure why you deleted, Bao Bao. I thought it was a reasonable topic (presuming we can get a couple of the usual posters to not include the snotty comments).

I've heard many Thais in Chiangmai make comments about what monks should or shouldn't be doing, e.g., they think it's rather offensive when they see a group of teenage monks laughing it up and playing video games at the mall. I don't particularly care what the monks do but I've often heard comments from Thais that they think it's inappropriate for the monks to engage in certain activities. There is a certain irony to the monk carrying around a cell phone or a boom box over his shoulder or wearing a speedo at a beach (but, then again, I could care less what they do). And, frankly, I'm less likely to get up at 5AM to go out to give alms to monks on the street if I really think they're going to buy cell phones.

No difference here in the states ...... we expect the various religious ministers to avoid certain public activities (like chugging down beers at a bar). And, because of that social view, that's why it's bigger news when a minister gets caught drunk driving or engaging a prostitute for services. Rather normal for that societal reaction when the actor purportedly preaches what is or isn't acceptable behaviour and then publicly violates those preachings.

I recognize that owning/using a cell phone these days isn't that big a deal but I still think it's strange to see a monk doing it. And I'd bet a lot that most of the temple abbots wouldn't like it at all.

And I'd bet a lot that most of the temple abbots wouldn't like it at all.

You have SO much to learn. Most temple abbots are too busy futzing with their Mercedes-Benzes to worry about the telephone habits of their monks.