Sex after closing. Do you owe a barfine?

[bucknaway]

Lets say you went to a gogo bar and flirted with the guys on stage. Lets also say that one guy on stage tells you to wait for him after the bar closes. You laugh it off and go to DJ station. While at DJ, you bump into the gogo boy! You both end up at your hotel having sex!

You did not plan to have sex with him. You didn't even expect him to find you in DJ Station!

Do you owe the bar an off fee? Or was it non-bar related sex?

IN the morning he asked for and received 500B taxi fare. :geek:

[Smiles]

" ... Lets say you went to a gogo bar and flirted with the guys on stage. Lets also say that one guy on stage tells you to wait for him after the bar closes. You laugh it off and go to DJ station. While at DJ, you bump into the gogo boy! You both end up at your hotel having sex!
You did not plan to have sex with him. You didn't even expect him to find you in DJ Station!
(1) Do you owe the bar an off fee? Or was it non-bar related sex?
(2) IN the morning he asked for and received 500B taxi fare. ... "

(1) No. You owe the bar nothing. For him ~ as usual ~ "up to you" ... from free to whatever. The former however should be his choosing. Of course, offer something.

(2) 500 baht taxi!! OK, you just paid the bar fine + :bom: Hardly any taxi ride in Bangkok will be much more than 100-200 baht ... and 200 gets you quite a way out.

Cheers ...

Oh come on Bucky! This is the oldest trick in the "Cheap Charlie Expat" handbook! Just hang around the bars after closing and take your pick of the boys without paying the barfine.
The downside is you have the pick of the bottom of the barrell since the "stars of the show" have already been offed earlier.
Also, you won't make many friends of the bar owners.

[bucknaway]

I forget which bar I met the guy at. It was either at Boys Bangkok or a street-level bar next to it. It was my first night back in Bangkok and I wanted to look at the gogo guys but meet a free-guy at DJ. The guy on the stage was HOT. Good looks and hung. He pulled his cock out many times asking me to feel and promising me he can cum good.

I tipped him 100b before I left and that is when he asked me to wait for him after the bar closing.... He When I bumped into him again at DJ, he gave me lots of tips on the gogo boys and the bars. He told me the names and numbers of gogo boys who had big cocks and fuck good.... I am not a size guy so I only smiled and would say wow from time to time.

He asked me about me, I told him I am a bottom. He told me he is a top.....

One thing let to another and we ended up back in my hotel. I kinda had mixed emotions about him being with me. I wanted a free guy but I knew that this guy was going to cost me. I said what the hell and did the deed.

I knew his request for "Taxi" money was payment for services.... I was not surprised by the request, but for all that went on, I am surprised he did now want more.

This happened during Low season.

The words Cheap Charlie sure come to my mind
If i were you if you are also worried about the dollar.
Why not stay in a cheaper hotel or cut your trip from 3 1/2 weeks to 2 weeks and have fun instead
of worrying about a few baht here and there

[bucknaway]

Stay in a cheaper hotel? I already stay in the cheapest hotel I am willing to stay in. :)
Also... I worry about money even when I am home. I get it from my father :)

Back on topic.... Is it being cheap when you can have sex for free and being reluctant to have fun with a working guy when a free one can be had? That is life for me here and in Thailand. I don't pay for sex here in the USA... I don't mind paying for sex in Thailand as long as I am the one choosing and in control. I am not a fan of being chosen, controlled and charged.


The words Cheap Charlie sure come to my mind
If i were you if you are also worried about the dollar.
Why not stay in a cheaper hotel or cut your trip from 3 1/2 weeks to 2 weeks and have fun instead
of worrying about a few baht here and there

[bucknaway]

"Repent" is that a sexual position? I think I seen some guys "Repent" in a sex show. They repented and I gasped "Oh My GOD!".

[francois]

Of course you do not owe the bar anything. And 500 Baht asked and received is a good and fair deal. But if you keep waiting for boys after the bar closing then you are a Cheap Charlie.

DELETED

I don't know why anyone is throwing the term "cheap charlie" at bucknaway. He has described clearly the sequence of events, and it's obvious that he did not _wait_ for the boy outside closing hours, but bumped into him again by chance at DJ station. Buck expected the boy to ask for money, the boy asked for 500 and buck gave him 500. I would have done the same.

Lets say you went to a gogo bar and flirted with the guys on stage. Lets also say that one guy on stage tells you to wait for him after the bar closes. You laugh it off and go to DJ station. While at DJ, you bump into the gogo boy! You both end up at your hotel having sex!

You did not plan to have sex with him. You didn't even expect him to find you in DJ Station!

Do you owe the bar an off fee? Or was it non-bar related sex?

IN the morning he asked for and received 500B taxi fare. :geek:

Some People making always appointments after the bar closed on purpose, because they are not willing to pay the bar fine. A short word for that is CHEATING! Let's say you met the boy somewhere, when the bar is closed and you or the Boy not made an appointment. You owe the bar nothing. If the Bar owner or the manager see you and the boy together, that will give him a strange feeling. If I take some boy home after closing time and I was in the bar before, I will go pay the fine the next day. That will give both a good feeling, but at least it's up to you

Yes, I guess "cheating" IS what you call it when you go directly to the prostitute, instead of through the pimp.

[Wesley]

I ran into a lot of Boys at X-zite. I went there to party, I had some fun with the waiters and some of the boys. if ask for money I usually paid unless they showed up at my room uninvited, which harppend a couple of times. If the boy goes out to a club to get an off when he was left with out one for the night, in my opinion he was fair game and if there is a problem for the Bar owner he should discuss it with the boy not me. I can't blame the boy if he was not offed; especially if it was low season-and he is with out rent money and food money and had ebough money to get into X-zite and find a client; good for him and lucky me.

Wesley

Boys are not slaves owned by the bar as property around-the-clock. The "off" fee is not a charge for sex, remember (oh no! That would make the bars brothels!). It is compensation to the bar for your escorting one of their workers off the premises (hence "off") during work hours.

The bar is owed nothing if you do not deprive them of their employee's presence during work hours.

I'm with the geenyus on this one. Are you guys saying that if you are at the beach and see a bar boy you know and liked you will pay a bar fine next time you are in?
I don't see the difference between this and the scenario described above and I would pay a bar fine for neither.

Another prob I have with these "bar fines" is that they are too high in my opinion. The "fine" is almost more than any wages the bar pays the boy. Also, when taking a boy off for a quickie should the fine not be lower than if he is taken for the whole night?

Actually it’s the staff that is requested to pay the OFF (-work) fine to his employer but nobody else. It’s common practice at some places to add the off-fee directly to a customer’s bill.

You remburse the fine requested from an employer inorder to compensate for loss of labour while you want take some off his work place for some time. This has nothing specifically to do with bars. This could also happend at a hotel or barber shop.

If in Thailand someone is failing to turn up for work or is leaving work before time, the employer will deduct some money as a fine (off-fee). This is a standard rountine all over he country with more or less any workplace. The deducted amount is more then one day's pay and employer and employee agreed all this before starting work. Even if Thai friends going out together, i.e. disco pub and want include another friend or colleague to there team, they will most likely need to pay the fine – and will surely do, maybe with some sour comments but with without any fuzz.

Some off-bars do make there money with this system. It is not legal (theory) but several attempts to stop this failed (practice). Some bars share the fine jointly with the person being taken off, some are keeping it all.

If you meet someone on his day off, before or after working hours, there is surely no need to pay any fine. What for? Anything happened during free (=off) time has nothing to do with an employer. This includes if you meet i.e. a bar boy at his workplace during his day off.

The person you’ve meet did ask you for some money. This is also common. But this has nothing to do with off-fee.
Do never expect that in Thailand sex is for free. And this has nothing to do with being foreigner or not. A Thai would probably have paid some without being asked. This is actually a tricky moment with requested a lot of sence.

500 TBT are comon and fair. A true professional would try to stay longer and sqeeze some more money out of you.

I'm with the geenyus on this one. Are you guys saying that if you are at the beach and see a bar boy you know and liked you will pay a bar fine next time you are in?
I don't see the difference between this and the scenario described above and I would pay a bar fine for neither.

Another prob I have with these "bar fines" is that they are too high in my opinion. The "fine" is almost more than any wages the bar pays the boy. Also, when taking a boy off for a quickie should the fine not be lower than if he is taken for the whole night?

Gay Bar fines are not to high! It is almost positive, that the Girly Bar fines are much more higher. Also the money what you pay for sex is much more as in gay bars. Short time sex including the off 2.500 Baht and more

I'm with the geenyus on this one. Are you guys saying that if you are at the beach and see a bar boy you know and liked you will pay a bar fine next time you are in?
I don't see the difference between this and the scenario described above and I would pay a bar fine for neither.

Another prob I have with these "bar fines" is that they are too high in my opinion. The "fine" is almost more than any wages the bar pays the boy. Also, when taking a boy off for a quickie should the fine not be lower than if he is taken for the whole night?

Gay Bar fines are not to high! It is almost positive, that the Girly Bar fines are much more higher. Also the money what you pay for sex is much more as in gay bars. Short time sex including the off 2.500 Baht and more

Yes, the "off" fee is usually a little more than a day wages but not much. If there is a big difference, the bar and staff are sharing - on customer's expenses. .. As often, you look at a picture, but you'll miss what's behind it. Most customers don't care anyway, they want there fun - and pay. For owners and employees it’s sufficient if they are getting your money ....
If it works out nicely, all are happy. ..

In "off" places the employer expects from his staff a certain minimum „off's" per month.

[atri1666]

[quote="salamanca
Gay Bar fines are not to high! It is almost positive, that the Girly Bar fines are much more higher. Also the money what you pay for sex is much more as in gay bars. Short time sex including the off 2.500 Baht and more[/quote]


They are absolutely to high! Some girly BJ-Bars are taking only 500 baht incl. one drink. My straight friends pay mostly for short time about 1000-1300 baht incl. the off.

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather pay 1,500 baht to fuck a boy than 150 baht to fuck a girl.

[Wesley]

for Good sakes lets not bring in the girls in fact when straight girls come into look at the boys it makes me uncomfortable, even more so if the boy if offed by the girl then I avoid him like the plaque,I don't even want to sleep with someone that has been eating pussy the night before.

Still say the bar fine is too high. At the very least should the fine not be less for a quickie?
I reckon at most it should be 200B or 100B if the boy is missing 2hrs or less of work.

[Marsilius]

Most people that I know don't call it a "barfine" but an "off fee".

Have you, in this circumstance described, taken the boy "off"?

No.

So no fee.

Still say the bar fine is too high. At the very least should the fine not be less for a quickie?
I reckon at most it should be 200B or 100B if the boy is missing 2hrs or less of work.

What colour is your purse?

"What colour is your purse?"
Naughty But Nice I have to apologise but the cryptic nature of your reply defeats me. Could you possibly explain?...........(using words of four letters or under naturally). :clown:

It never ceases to amaze me how cheap or pathetically poor some of the guys on here must be. Of course you SHOULD pay the off fee, even if you can get away with sticking around and picking the boy up after the bar closes. The bars need to make a profit to stay in business. If the bars don't stay in business we will all end up with our sorry asses picking up who knows what from the streets, alleys, beaches, and dark corners, and we we will be assuming all of the risks that come with with picking up street walkers any where in the world. Thai Host and Go-Go Bars provide a chance to get to know the boys and offer a degree of protection because the bar's reputation is on the line if there is a problem with a boy.

Stay home if you are so poor you can't afford a bar fine, or you are so cheap that you squeeze a penny until it screams.

[bucknaway]

Are you replying to the thread topic or did you read a post on here that you are replying to... Or are you simply making a statement?


It never ceases to amaze me how cheap or pathetically poor some of the guys on here must be. Of course you SHOULD pay the off fee, even if you can get away with sticking around and picking the boy up after the bar closes. The bars need to make a profit to stay in business. If the bars don't stay in business we will all end up with our sorry asses picking up who knows what from the streets, alleys, beaches, and dark corners, and we we will be assuming all of the risks that come with with picking up street walkers any where in the world. Thai Host and Go-Go Bars provide a chance to get to know the boys and offer a degree of protection because the bar's reputation is on the line if there is a problem with a boy.

Stay home if you are so poor you can't afford a bar fine, or you are so cheap that you squeeze a penny until it screams.

[Smiles]

" ... It never ceases to amaze me how cheap or pathetically poor some of the guys on here must be. Of course you SHOULD pay the off fee, even if you can get away with sticking around and picking the boy up after the bar closes ... "
I guess there is a Cheap Charlie element in what you say ... IF that is what happened.
But that's not what went down, as far as I can gather from Bucknaway's description.

He wrote:


" ... I tipped him 100b before I left and that is when he asked me to wait for him after the bar closing.... He When I bumped into him again at DJ .... "
My read on this sentence is that Bucknaway was in a gogo bar, caught the eye of a guy, and tipped him for, well, "being him". Then the Thai guy asked him to meet him after the bar closed . . . to which there apparently was no specific response. After going to DJ's he coincidently (??) meets the Thai guy after his shift is finished (it's hardly uncommon for DJ's to be filled with off-work gogo guys).

If that's a correct read then Bucknaway's no Cheap Charlie, and owes nothing extra to the bar.

If the meeting wasn't coincidental and was arranged in the bar (which isn't 100% clear in Bucknaway's telling) it still sounds like the Thai guy initiated the after-closing meeting. If so, no bar fee payment is due, and the Cheap Charlie accusation doesn't hold water.

Bucknaway can shed more light on whether the DJ meeting was unexpected ... or arranged in the bar. But either way he owes nothing to the bar itself.

Cheers ... (IMHO :cheers: )

[bucknaway]

Smiles is accurate in his statement. I didn't expect to meet the gogo guy outside of the gogo. Once I was in DJ, I didn't expect to see him and even if I did, I would not have recognized him with his clothes on. He came up to me and we danced and had fun and I only know it was the gogo boy because he did a lot of gossiping and talking about the gogo.

I don't have a problem paying an off fee for guys. I have offed guys just to go eat with me in the mall or walk and talk along the beach, having no sex but giving them a short time tip.

A few years back, a gogo dancer begged me to off him and I joked that I had no money for fun. He promised me no money and wait for him for closing. I told him I not able... He told the host I was offing him. The waiter went to get the bill and the gogo guy pulled out his money and paid his own off! I was not happy about that. I gave him back his off money after we ate, but I went back to my hotel alone.

Gogo guys often whisper to me to wait for them, I simply figured they do that to everyone and pay it no real attention. I simply smile when they say it....

Now I am getting old... I don't think I will get as much attention this time as I am use to getting... :(

I was making a generalized statement and responding to some of the other comments about how "high" off fees are and and how some get around paying them them. I was not responding to Bucknaway's original post. My apology to you, Bucuknaway.

In Bucknaway's particular case I think he owes no off fee to the bar, but if he were to meet the boy during his normal working hours of any future occassion the bar should be paid their bar fine.