HIV check for Sexworkers

Few days ago some doctor from Banglamung Hospital came around and said, that the boys must make a HIV test. I personally refuse that boys going to make this kinds of test under pressure. If that there free will, I am ok with that. What about the foreigners? Are they going to make some kind of test before they offing someone. I know some infected HIV foreign bastards come to Thailand to infecting sex workers on purpose.

I'm not adverse to mandatory HIV (and other STD) testing for "boys" working at a bar, as long as there is also a provision for counseling and treatment as well.

[kodiak]

I am somewhat confused at Krazydragons response to HIV testing.....???? He s taking as an attack fromauthorities who are happily trying to test as many as possible...? and he is a responsible bar owner...? Of course one should not be forced against their will to take the test....but i would hope that responsible bar owners should encourage and educate the boys that it is the right thing to do....?? I would encourage all...Thai and Falang alike to get tested....!!! Was the doctor providing this service for free......? Do not bar owners who employ sex workers have some responsibility in promoting safe sex and encourage all Workers and Customers to get STD test. Maybe its just me.....but the response from Krazydragon is a bit confusing. Was the doctor dictating that all must take the test even if they did not want to...? Or was he just passionate about his job.......and trying to encourage all to be tested..?

[bucknaway]

I am in full support of sex workers being tested if their test results are kept private.

[Aunty]

Prostitution should be fully legalised in Thailand and the earnings of sex workers taxed in exactly the same way that all other income and earnings are taxed. Legalised prostitution brings the industry out of the shadows, helps prevents corruption, kick-backs to the authorities, and allows appropriate rules of health and safety to be established for sex workers including regular STD checks. Legalised prostitution allows brothel owners to arrange for safe sex education classes for the prevention of HIV/Aids and other STDs to be regularly held for its workers without fear that in doing so, the owner or bar will be subject to legal sanction or arrest for living off the earnings of prostitution or providing a place for prostitution. Legalised prostitution also allows (requires) brothel owners to promote safe sex practices through posters, flyer's and the provision of condoms and lubricants to its clients, in the open, without fear of arrest. Legalised prostitution also allows sex workers and brothel owners to say no to clients they do not wish to serve, such as those they have reason to believe engage in unsafe sex practices or are infected with an STD. Legalised prostitution makes prostitution safer for both the sex worker, the brothel owner and the client.

In it's absence you end up with the situation that currently exists in Thailand, and I can fully understand Kraydragon's reluctance to get involved in the compulsory HIV testing of his bar boys. It opens far too big a can of worms. In this situation he and his boys have no legal protections whatsoever, and the whole process verges on farce, as he rightly points out, the farang are not tested for HIV yet there are known HIV positive farang deliberately having unprotected sex with Thai sex workers. So why should the boys be the ones who are tested. After all HIV doesn't come from Thailand you know. Farang took it there.

[kodiak]

If this is the prevailing attitude in Thailand ...which i dont think is shared by most

When the boys in Brown do their next raid.......HIV test should be mandatory for all including Falang...for all bars not just gay bars......!!

This will be happening if the HIV situation worsens in Thailand.........

Any one HIV positive purposely having unprotected sex to infect someone weather Thai or Falang should be jailed........And how do you get this info anyways Aunty......that there are HIV positive Falang purposely having unprotected sex with Thai sex workers......? How do you know this is true..... Why would someone knowingly do this to another life.......I think not

certainly many people have HIV and dont even know it.....Thais and Falang alike....hence the need for testing for all...!!

Testing for STDs for people working in bars does not prove anything happening illegal. Having sex is not illegal in Thailand...Helloooo Only prostitution

[Aunty]

If this is the prevailing attitude in Thailand ...which i dont think is shared by most

........And how do you get this info anyways Aunty......that there are HIV positive Falang purposely having unprotected sex with Thai sex workers......? How do you know this is true..... Why would someone knowingly do this to another life.......I think not

Well sadly there are people in this word who hate and who hurt, and who do so deliberately, with malice, and with satisfaction. I have certainly read of and heard about (from our own Aids Foundation) cases of gay men who when they found out they were infected with HIV set out to deliberately infect as many other men as possible to exact their revenge. I have also read of cases where gay men who believe they became infected while on holiday in LOS, return to infect other Thai sex workers, again to exact their revenge. And of course there are those who know they are HIV positive but refuse to practice safe sex, or tell their sex partners their HIV status. And those who refuse to practice safe sex because they don't believe HIV exists anyway, it's all a CIA plot. There are dumb, insane and dangerous people in this world, we have them on this board! And the weirdest of the lot in my view are the bug chasers and gift givers and the conversion parties. I'll leave you to read up on that happy little lot!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4895012.stm

[Impulse]

I think the workers should be tested as long as they can be educated about the transmition of hiv and prevention.Its insane if anyone working in this industry does not know of the risk involved.Bar owners should care about their workers health. Farangs should be tested also,I dont know the logistics of how to do it,but Im sure that many who know they are positive are infecting young Thais. Imho most farangs are aware of how hiv is transmitted,the same cant be said of younger sex workers.And it must start with the workers in these bars and clubs to protect themselves.No one can harm you if you know how to protect yourself.By useing condoms for anal sex at all times,no matter how much baht someone offers them. Its really that simple,but someone or group must educate these guys. If i owned a bar I sure as hell would make sure my workers knew all about protection and risk involved so they would not spend a lifetime of misery taking drugs trying to stop a virus that will eventually kill them.

[Hmmm]

Perhaps the owner of Krazy Dragon would like to enlighten us on the measures he takes to minimise the chances of disease transmission between his employees and his customers (in either direction), while engaged in the activities from which he profits ? Otherwise his concern for the 'rights' of his boys to refuse an AIDs test might appear a bit hollow.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Even giving Krazydragon a great deal of latitude in that English is not his first language, his comments were so ambiguous you could almost read anything into them.

Hi,

I did address this issue regards STDs in a previous post on a previous thread and we did used to test all our employees, who went with customers for STDs free of charge by a recognized Medical Doctor once a week/ten days.

We also, on occasion tested then for drugs, which we were "advised" to do and keep accurate records of,and any failures, especially on a subsequent test, the staff involved were required to leave the bar.

The HIV test, although I agree with it in theory, is a tremendously difficult one to keep up with .

As, I said before, the test is only as accurate as the last time you had sex and can actually be cheated, albeit not deliberately, if the infection took place very recently.

I do think the onus is on prevention being better than cure, as we should all know, by both parties showing equal responsibility.

The people who acquire this illness and deliberately set out to infect others, words are wasted on, there are certain countries that have laws in place for such acts.

It makes you think, if prostitution was legalized, then the bar could collect the minimum fee direct on behalf of the employee, taxes could be paid to the Government, Health checks could be regularly carried out and the use of protection compulsory, carrying in no refund for the customer with the boy/girl, who tries the practice in the room, "If I wear a condom I am not paying" etc etc They would have already had their fee, and could walk away from this type of blackmail.

It would not work on every case, nothing does, but would go a long way to helping and reducing this type of behaviour and protecting ALL participants.

The idea is to protect and educate all people involved in these activities.

There will always be, unfortunately, the ones who accept no protection for a higher fee,the quicker this behaviour is ostracized and becomes a taboo, like smoking and drink driving has become, [ especially,with regards to the effects on other people's health] , the better off everyone will be.

The males and females involved in sex working should also and equally remember that HIV/AIDS can be caught with the new boyfriend/girlfriend they have after hours,who they have met working in other bars in Pattaya or those that they pick up in X-Zyte, Hollywood, of their own Nationality

Anyone who wants to know what an HIV carrier looks like, need look no further than their own mirror!

I agree with the approach used by Kquill if I understand it correctly. I think that HIV/STD and drug tests should be mandatory for workers. The purpose of the HIV/STD test should not be thought of as protection only for the customer since, as kquill noted it is only useful for a period of time, but more importantly for the protection of the worker, his wife and girlfriends or in a few cases his boyfriends. Remember that infection may not be from a "farang" alone. It is just as possible that it comes from a different source. If a person does not know their status of HIV/STD infection they can not seek treatment. Most STDs are treatable at a small cost. HIV can be treated and survival with a good quality of life prolonged when treated early.

Logistically, it is probably not possible to know of another persons status unless they tell you. I am a bit amazed that some think it is a defense to say that sex workers should not be mandatorialy tested unless all the customers are also tested. It is a lame defense I feel for it is known that that will not prevent any further spread of disease since it is not possible to currently carry out that plan.

We have heard many times before that every person should have the mindset that their sex partner is infected. No one should think that test results which could be outdated even before the test (due to incubation periods) is accurate. However it is still the best tool so when you find out you have HIV/STD so you can get treated.

Sex is a very powerful force as we all know. That is why it is a multi billion dollar industry. We all want it. Even the good conservative religious folks who would talk against sex are driven by its powerful force. Making the sex industry legal so it can be taxed is a great idea for many reasons IF the money can stay in the system for education, treatment and research. But in the meantime, I believe that supporting local groups like Thais-4-life and the PGF is very meaningful if the funds are being ethically used and both businesses that profit well and customers who profit from enjoyment both contribute.........

Maybe my preaching is a bit to passionate...when does happy hour begin??

[Hmmm]

I remember that legalization of prostitution was seriously on the table several years ago. Of course it never happened, and if I recall correctly a major reason was that sex workers realized that they would have to be registered, and hence the pretense of working 'in a restaurant' would disappear .. and hence so would they (from the industry).

[Wesley]

I once had a friend, we no longer speak to each other. He openly admitted that he intentionally had sex with some guys with the intent of giving them HIV. I considered this to be the worst sort of person, to innocently give someone STD by mistakes or, the lack of education or, knowledge of ones own status is to be understood. However, to infect a person intentionally is murder simple and slow. I have no pity for anyone who should be executed or jailed for life for such a thing. To me it is the ultimate lack of conscience I know. It is in my opinion worse than some of the horror movies and the Chain saw massacre is no match for such a mind as this.

I agree Wesley. Anyone who knowingly passes the HIV virus to another is really deranged. I am sure it is a crime in some countries. In my view, a long jail sentence is very lenient. Castration or death might be a more fitting sentence.

I agree with you Wesley. People infect others with deadly illnesses on purpose are attempted murders. they have to be executed