Topic no longer current.

[Utopia]

Topic no longer current.

Once famed for its tolerance, Thailand has taken another step backward in not protecting the human rights of all of its citizens.



A bit over-the-top, don't you think? Protection for sexual minorities has never been enshrined in a Thai Constitution, so not including it in this new one is not "a step backward" -- it is staying in the same place. And I certainly don't think you can say that "tolerance" is any less now than it ever has been in the past. We'd be lucky if other places were as tolerant as Thailand is.

I feel that the average Thai citizen is more gay-tolerant than the government (past and present), which seems to be more gay-indifferent.

Thailand's Anjaree Group, winners of a 2000 Utopia Award, will organize a public seminar next week to address the myths and misunderstandings concerning LGBT and to encourage the Assembly to reconsider its exclusion of the LGBT community.

:sleepy2: Anyone going? :sleepy3: :sleepy1:

Anjaree is a dyke group. Just what I want to do: spend my afternoon in a room full of granola-eating, Birkenstock-wearing, motorcycle-riding, hairy-legged diesel dykes.

Once famed for its tolerance...I must have missed that episode. Once famed for its "Don't ask, don't tell, don't confront" practices, maybe

[Marsilius]

An actual debate and decision not to include provision for sexual minorities surely IS a step backward from a situation where nothing had ever previously been expressed or decided about the issue at all...?

An actual debate and decision not to include provision for sexual minorities surely IS a step backward from a situation where nothing had ever previously been expressed or decided about the issue at all...?

On the contrary, I think it's a step forward that the matter was even DISCUSSED -- much less for 2.5 hours -- when it had never even been ACKNOWLEDGED before.

[fedssocr]

Anjaree is a dyke group. Just what I want to do: spend my afternoon in a room full of granola-eating, Birkenstock-wearing, motorcycle-riding, hairy-legged diesel dykes.

It's kind of hard to ask for tolerance when we don't even have tolerance within our own community.

Kind of hard to talk about anything when people have no sense of humor.

It's kind of hard to ask for tolerance when we don't even have tolerance within our own community.I do not regard lesbians as part of my "community" - whatever that is. They are profoundly to be pitied as life's saddest minority - neither possessing cocks nor interested in cock. But part of my "community"?

They are profoundly to be pitied as life's saddest minority - neither possessing cocks nor interested in cock.

Not strictly true Click here Homi-Baby (http://www.thediscountsextoys.com/mall/dynamic.asp?nopg=4&fmcategory=straps)

Kind of hard to talk about anything when people have no sense of humor.
I laughed. Cnt beat a good generalisation. And to think that str8 guys have fantasies about watching 2 lesbians together.....eeeeeeewwwwwwwww.

It's weird, isn't it?

I had a client visiting Thailand, and he was obsessed with the idea of having a private lesbian show performed for him in his hotel room.

I told him I could arrange it, but he might want to consider how much he'd enjoy the show if something like this showed up:

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2479279-md.jpg

He decided to do without the show, thankfully.

It's weird, isn't it?

I had a client visiting Thailand, and he was obsessed with the idea of having a private lesbian show performed for him in his hotel room.

I told him I could arrange it, but he might want to consider how much he'd enjoy the show if something like this showed up:

He decided to do without the show, thankfully.
Maybe there is a business opportunity there - a lesbian go-go bar in Patpong? The tables may need some reinforcement if they look anything like the ones in your picture. But you shouldnt have any problem with the local police - just send one of the girls to deal with them. Should scare off any poor Thai policeman.

[Aunty]

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2479279-md.jpg

How BG, where did you get that picture of Beryl from? Did you snap him going up Silom rd? And here he was trying to tell us he was a bald fat old cunt. He's not bald!

No, no, no. Don't be silly. Beryl has much less hair, and larger breasts.

[GWMinUS]

I see the girl on the back has a good hold on the breast of the one in the front...
Now, that is how my Pinoy BF rides me!!! WOW!!!
But you guys should not be hard on Lesbians.
After all they can procreate and keep our linear going.
Just ask VP Chaney!!!

But you guys should not be hard on Lesbians

Now there are 3 words that you don't really hear that much in combination

Hard On and

Lesbians

Well not from the gay community anyway

Straights? Well they seem to like Lesbian action enough to get a hard on - so I'm told

I looked at the pic above and my first thought was

"What the fuck is Bad Boy Billy doing on that bike - and with a woman?"

There is clearly a mismatch in perception between on the one hand gay tourists and ex-pat retirees coming to Thailand and the host population on the other. This is partly explained by the mismatch in the power distance between the general Thai population and the arrivees as well-as the power distance between the general Thai population and the powerful classes in Thailand.

The general Thai population are used to living in a situation of significant power distance. In the countries from which tourists and retirees arrive the power distances are less marked and obvious. When the general Thai population are accepting of behaviours by those they perceive to be powerful they give the impression that they are generally accepting of those behaviours. This is a mistaken perception.

This is further complicated by two factors. If we divide post-animist, pre-secular world religions by Western (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and Eastern (Hindu, Buddhist) then we find far greater strictures against homosexuality amongst the Western religions than the Eastern where although as the Dalai Lama has said "Homosexuality is a sin, but it is a little sin". And this is further complicated by the speedier cultural acceptance of secular liberalism in the West, possibly excluding the Christian USA.

The other major factor might be described as a gay fantasy. There is an understandable yearning amongst liberal self-accepting western gays to find that nirvana where their behaviour is completely understood and accepted. When they come to Thailand they graft their perception of their ideal nirvana onto people who don't real understand it or accept it but because of the structure of their society will unwittingly make many of the right moves to reinforce this mistaken perception.

No society is static and no society has had the same journey. The differences in perceptions are often greater than those who meet amicably, perceive.

After all they can procreate and keep our linear going.

They're no more or less able to procreate than we are. Last time I looked, you still needed both a man and woman somewhere in the equation.

:argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue: :argue:
There is clearly a mismatch in perception between on the one hand gay tourists and ex-pat retirees coming to Thailand and the host population on the other. This is partly explained by the mismatch in the power distance between the general Thai population and the arrivees as well-as the power distance between the general Thai population and the powerful classes in Thailand.

The general Thai population are used to living in a situation of significant power distance. In the countries from which tourists and retirees arrive the power distances are less marked and obvious. When the general Thai population are accepting of behaviours by those they perceive to be powerful they give the impression that they are generally accepting of those behaviours. This is a mistaken perception.

This is further complicated by two factors. If we divide post-animist, pre-secular world religions by Western (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and Eastern (Hindu, Buddhist) then we find far greater strictures against homosexuality amongst the Western religions than the Eastern where although as the Dalai Lama has said "Homosexuality is a sin, but it is a little sin". And this is further complicated by the speedier cultural acceptance of secular liberalism in the West, possibly excluding the Christian USA.

The other major factor might be described as a gay fantasy. There is an understandable yearning amongst liberal self-accepting western gays to find that nirvana where their behaviour is completely understood and accepted. When they come to Thailand they graft their perception of their ideal nirvana onto people who don't real understand it or accept it but because of the structure of their society will unwittingly make many of the right moves to reinforce this mistaken perception.

No society is static and no society has had the same journey. The differences in perceptions are often greater than those who meet amicably, perceive.

err yeah OK

I'm here for the Cock

has said "Homosexuality is a sin, but it is a little sin"

What a shitload of bull. I would only ask that the more serious posters here please realize that "sin" is not a word in the Buddhist vocabularly. Here's a hint ... do a Google search on "Buddhism Sin".


A Basic Buddhism Guide: Differences From Other Religions.The idea of sin or original sin has no place in Buddhism. Also, sin should not be equated to suffering. 18. Buddhist teachings expound no beginning and no ...

WWW Virtual Library: The uniqueness of BuddhismThere is nothing called 'sin' in Buddhism in which actions are merely termed as meritorious ... John Walters writing about the Buddhist idea of sin, ...

NEW CHARTER
State religion rejected

CDA votes 66-9 against special status for Buddhism; approves recognition of rights of gays and transsexuals

The Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) yesterday rejected recognition of Buddhism as the national religion in the new constitution by a 66-9 vote following five hours of intense deliberations.

The decision upset protesting monks and lay Buddhists, who vowed to launch a campaign to reject the junta-sponsored draft charter.

"They are already our enemies," one monk, who asked not to be identified, said minutes after the CDA voted at 3.15pm.

"We won't endorse this draft charter. We will have to wait until August to see if we are successful," said another monk, who also withheld his name.

The CDA's decision means Article 2 of the General Provisions chapter of the charter defines Thailand as a democratically ruled country with the King as the head of state, without any mention of Buddhism as the state religion.

As consolation, the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) earlier amended Article 78 to state that "the state shall provide patronage and protection to Buddhism, which is the religion wherein most people profess, and other faiths...."

The CDA yesterday also voted to include a clause to recognise homosexuals and transsexual individuals and assure they would "enjoy equal rights".

The assembly noted however that such recognition would not lead to sanctioning "homosexual consummation".

CDA members who favoured Buddhism as the state religion tried to request a secret vote on the clause, but could not muster the necessary support for the motion.

The debate on state religion began with CDC chairman Prasong Soonsiri telling the assembly why his committee felt Buddhism should not be recognised as the national religion in the charter.

He cited possible repercussions on inter-religious harmony and argued that making Buddhism the national religion would make no difference as to whether it flourished or declined in the Kingdom.

"Nobody should have privilege over another person [due to their religious background]," Prasong told the assembly. "Thailand doesn't rely on Buddhism as the basis of its law and to recognise Buddhism [as national religion] would be against a democratic system."

More than a dozen speakers for both sides took turns trying to convince their fellow CDA members from 10am until 3pm.

Decho Suwannanond said there should be no cause for worry as many other countries recognised one religion or another as the national religion. He cited Cambodia, Sri Lanka and Burma as examples of countries with Buddhism as the national religion.

Kiattichai Pongpanich countered that Thailand would suffer greater inter-religious violence of the kind witnessed in Sri Lanka and even Burma, where Buddhist and Christian Karen were at odds with one another.

"It will enable religious fanatics to try to 'cleanse' society and make it 'pure' by dismantling aspects of globalisation. What will happen then?" Kiattichai asked. "Today is the day to decide clearly."

Proponents didn't give up, however, and argued that there was no concrete evidence that recognising Buddhism as the national religion in a country where 95 per cent of the population regarded themselves as Buddhists would lead to religious rifts.

Pichian Amnajvoraprasert even urged CDA members to vote for the Buddhism clause as a means to earn religious "merit".

After failing to achieve a consensus, CDA member Chirmsak Pinthong changed tactics. He alleged that a general had invited batches of CDA members for meetings, only to show them videos of Buddhist monks being killed in the deep South.

"We were then told that we must help make Buddhism the national religion," Chirmsak said.

He also alleged that some people had threatened not to vote for him if he ran for office in future if he did not support them on the issue.

In the evening, the debate on the number and ratio of elected and appointed senators was revived in the assembly. Some members proposed increasing the number of senators from 150 to 160, and the number of those elected at the provincial level from 76 to 120 to reflect the population differences between various provinces.

Karun Sai-ngam interrupted the discussion with the warning that it was not in the CDA's mandate to revisit issues that had already been approved by the assembly.

The CDA also agreed to amend Article 186 to require Parliament's approval for any government agreement with a foreign country that would have "wide" economic and social impact "within 60 days", and for the government to make the proposed agreement public before signing it.

The conditions were added because Parliament would not be able to deliberate on all the related issues.

Meanwhile, Natee Theerarojnapong, president of the Gay Political Group of Thailand, burst into tears on being told that the CDA had agreed to recognise the rights of gays and lesbians by stating in Article 30 of the charter that differences in "sexual identity" could not be grounds for discrimination.

"This is what we have fought for for decades," he said.

Natee said he believed that Sutthirat Simsiriwong's case had prompted the assembly to recognise gay rights [page 2].

"His case was concrete evidence that discrimination against gays does exist in this country," he said.The CDA will continue deliberations on the draft constitution today and tomorrow.

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation


Original Article (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/30/headlines/headlines_30038184.php)

My comments on the Dalai Lama's assertion of homosexuality being a little sin were based on my viewing a television interview he gave. This web page (http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=22,1708,0,0,1,0) tells of an incident when he has made similar statements.

Clearly you know more about Buddhism than the Dalai Lama which is why we should tolerate your intemperate language. Thank you for spreading your enlightenment - but it's just a little thank.

My comments on the Dalai Lama's assertion of homosexuality being a little sin were based on my viewing a television interview he gave. This web page (http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=22,1708,0,0,1,0) tells of an incident when he has made similar statements.

Clearly you know more about Buddhism than the Dalai Lama which is why we should tolerate your intemperate language. Thank you for spreading your enlightenment - but it's just a little thank.

He may have said "little" sin on Larry King. There is a WIDE gulf between the two cultures on the issue, their vocabularies, and view of morality, and "sin" should, obviously, be avoided, for it's widespread connotations as something that is "punishable by god". Shouldn't be repeated. Apologies for the intemperance.

The article you reference supports what was said. But it is a HORRIBLE article. It's misinformational, the author, referenced only to a hotmail address, is either extremely ignorant of Buddhism, badly intentioned, or just insane (one of us?). Anyway I'll expound on that - on another forum.

(I sense a skilful-writing Sawatdean reincarnate.)