When your old and Lonely,who will care?

I found this story on a Straight Bangkok forum and I wonder how many of are or will be in this situation,obviously it makes it a bit harder for you if you are not straight as you may not get the help off the Churches etc.Here is the story.....................

Billy
Fast forward some 30 or 40 years and you will be in that situation.
You have still time to repair the damage and get back your credibility - or am I dreaming?

cheers:

[catawampuscat]

life's tough and then you die...

[Daniel-old]

'he doesn't deserve to spend his remaining years like this' ...

...but he is choosing to do so. His needs would be met if he returned to the UK.

'He says that the farang community in Thailand is totally heartless'

I don't think the farang community feels it has any obligation, but will help out an individual it deems worthy of help.

'I believe in most areas the neighbours would look out for persons such as he'

I would say that would be the exception rather than the rule in the UK, especially if the person was a crusty old bastard, who had no topic of conversation other than how hard done by he was.

[Aunty]

Very sad indeed. Of course as people get older they can become more and more difficult. And if they already had mental/ personality disorders in the first place these often become exacerbated with dementia and other conditions. I'm surprised by one thing though. His pension being frozen. That doesn't sound right to me. If paid his social security (national insurance??) when he was living in Britain, then he is entitled to that money. It's his money, it's not a benefit or a welfare payment. I'd be getting in contact with the DHSS and the UK embassy to sort it out. If he could get his pension right then that might allow him a bit more money to hire some help. Otherwise maybe the UK Govt. has a budget for the repatriation of its indigent nationals over the age of 65? Certainly if he was living in the UK he would be eligible for a lot of home help and possibly rest home type care.

Of course this does bring in the wider issue of aged care for gay men, many of whom will not have family to fall back on for help and support. I myself will be in that situation when I am in my 70's and 80's. If my health allows, I hope to continue to live at home for as long as I can. In NZ we have an extensive network of Govt. funded home help providers who can do things like cooking, cleaning, personal cares, washing, gardening, shopping, taking people to the doctor - it's the Govts policy to keep people in their homes for as long as it is safe to do so. Only when it becomes unsafe for the elderly to live alone are they moved into a rest home or geriatric hospital. If you have no money, the Govt. pays for it. If I am no longer safe to live by myself, my plan is to move into a retirement village. These are places which have three levels of care provided, ranging from very little to hospital level care. Residents have their own homes on site, or private apartments - much like a hotel suite. (I'm sure they are common throughout the West). Seeing how my mother lived out her last years, and watching my father's current decline, it pays to plan ahead, believe me.

[PeterUK]

One can sympathise with the plight of this old man, but to say that 'he doesn't deserve to spend his remaining years like this' is pushing it a bit. I firmly believe that we are all in exactly the circumstances we deserve, based on the sum of our previous actions, and to blame others for our woes, as this old man does, is merely to take the easy way out and sidestep the real need to transform ourselves.

[lonelywombat]

[quote/]he lost all his money to his ex wife many years ago, and how his UK pension had been frozen more than 20 years ago (which was his sole source of income) [quote/]

I am unsure of the UK pension and whether it can be encashed, but the str8 community is full of stories of farang transferring all assets to their wives name to qualify for higher interest, and then being kicked out.

I believe the interest advantage has now been removed, but the transfer of assets is an industry that many thai women and their advisors, are fully aware of.

Not all the falling farang are gay. In fact very few of them are.

[Aunty]

One can sympathise with the plight of this old man, but to say that 'he doesn't deserve to spend his remaining years like this' is pushing it a bit. I firmly believe that we are all in exactly the circumstances we deserve, based on the sum of our previous actions, and to blame others for our woes, as this old man does, is merely to take the easy way out and sidestep the real need to transform ourselves.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone
John: Chp 8, v7.

I think you can afford to be a little bit more forgiving than that!

.... I'm surprised by one thing though. His pension being frozen. That doesn't sound right to me. If paid his social security (national insurance??) when he was living in Britain, then he is entitled to that money. It's his money, it's not a benefit or a welfare payment. I'd be getting in contact with the DHSS and the UK embassy to sort it out.

It probably means something different to what you are thinking. It could mean that it was frozen at the 20 years ago rate! Therefore if he was getting ┬г250 a month then it would have been considered reasonable. But now . . . . . . . .

:cheers:

[Aunty]

.... I'm surprised by one thing though. His pension being frozen. That doesn't sound right to me. If paid his social security (national insurance??) when he was living in Britain, then he is entitled to that money. It's his money, it's not a benefit or a welfare payment. I'd be getting in contact with the DHSS and the UK embassy to sort it out.

It probably means something different to what you are thinking. It could mean that it was frozen at the 20 years ago rate! Therefore if he was getting ┬г250 a month then it would have been considered reasonable. But now . . . . . . . .

:cheers:

Oh ok, so that can happen under the UK rules? But if he was actually living back in Britain, wouldn't he be entitled to a basic minimum pension, regardless of the size of his contributions? I'm assuming that would be more than 250 pounds a month? I think he would be better off back in the UK.

[Daniel-old]

Oh ok, so that can happen under the UK rules?

Absolutely! Under British law, moving to most countries outside the EEC will cause your pension to be frozen immediately. Successive British governments have promised to revue the situation, but little happens. Not surprising when you realise this situation is faced by over half a million British expats. That's a lot of unpaid pension. Until the situation is rectified, the government simply advise British citizens to ensure they have enough funds to compensate for the affects of frozen pension erosion.

But if he was actually living back in Britain, wouldn't he be entitled to a basic minimum pension, regardless of the size of his contributions?

No, is the short answer. However, he would be means tested under the pension credit (formerly income support) system, guaranteeing a minimum income of 120 pounds sterling per week. On top of this, he would be entitled to housing benefit, council tax benefit, attendance allowance (because of his medical condition), free prescriptions, and any carer would be able to claim a carers allowance.

[Bob]

I couldn't say it better than PeterUK did above. It's called responsibility.

Daniel has got this right. If a UK citizen moves beyond the EU he gives up his basic NI pension. If he moves back to the UK he will get basic support. Whether that can be described as a dignified end game is questionable. People who have employment or private pensions are in much better shape to retire abroad but what guarantees a dignified exit when you have lost your mental faculties is a mystery to me.

This is a very interesting subject, as Aunty says for all us Gays. How best to prepare for the day that will certainly one day come, when we can no longer look after ourselves as gays.
I think a retirement village just for gays sounds like a lovely idea, its sort of how I thought Pattaya was like, but this story sends shivers down my spine. I wonder if any gay retirement villages really exist. I know it is a very long way off for me, and all things going well I should be financially OK, it is still a worry. What if I cannot get to the bank machine or the maids rip me off or I get dementia? It all sounds quite scary if you think about it. As much as I spoil my nephew, I cannot expect him to take care of an old man? We should to be sorting this out now, not putting up ocean one type towers but making plans and building for our future needs.

Retirement homes and resorts are rarely nice places. For a start they are full of old people. Nursing homes are even worse and often smell of oldness and pee.

One of the joys of living in Thailand is that neither are necessary and you can see lots of lovely and charming young people around, even in the hospitals.

Several of my friends and myself consider ourselves very fortunate as we have a young/ish man to 'take care' and this often involves cleaning and chauffeuring, perhaps sex and an understanding that he will continue to take care should one become infirm. The best of these seems to be when the young man does not live in the house but has plenty of freedom but is on call. In exchange the guy gets a monthly salary and possibly more. In all the cases that I know, I think the guy will inherit some serious assets.

The arrangements vary according to the couples but often an ex-lover moves into a son like relationship and Papa becomes part of the family with all the expense that that invariably involves. However this is a mere fraction of the cost of care in the West and so much more pleasant.

This sounds all too ideal Wowpow? though I am not saying you are wrong. Are people really being taken care of when they are unable to do this for themselves? The mention of young men carers sounds a bit suspect, are you not vulnerable especially to young men when you are old and infirm? Who looks out for your interests, who makes sure the young men are not stuffing you under the stairwell and driving around in your car, abusing your Swiss bank account, sucking you dry?

Are you saying it is a collective thing in Thailand? A couple of young men are involved with quite few of the same old people, that these old people share resources and look out for each other till they each die in turn, as new ones continue to enter the fold? If so that sounds all very nice. But if not wouldn't proper retirement village style living be better for them in Thailand with proper facility and health care and accountable staff, I am sure there must be a market.

I once saw a Westerner, he must have been about 85 in a go-go bar in Bangkok. He was healthy looking although completely ga ga, his hair hadn't been combed generaly a bit unkempt. He had a few local strong men with him, they were certainly young compared to him, in their thirties I would say, he seemed very happy, and everyone in the bar/club paid him a lot of respect, obviously well known. I wonder if this is not the exceptions to the rule, and rest are living a rather scary existence completely at the mercy of heartless villains? And I wonder where that man is now three years later.
You read about old gay westerners being mugged in Thailand, even in their own countries they must be vulnerable, but in the milieu of rent boys and the sex industry in a foreign country about 800% more so I would think? Could be wrong, maybe it is ideal and old people are respected and venerated as you say, even if they are Europeans etc?

I also did a few months working for "age concern" in the Uk (the Uk wasnt my first choice I can promise you that) after school a few years ago, and am very proud of having done that with my life, it taught me a lot, it should be compulsory, it made me realise how vulnerable old people really are, depression can so easily kick in just because you cannot fix a draw, or change batteries on a radio or wash your hair, or just chat to anyone, these things make a lot of difference to your outlook, most old people seemed very sad and unhappy and for reasons I can easily understand.
I must say, even though we are gay and might not have children, children are by no means a guarantee that you will be taken care of, even if you are relatively well off finically. It was certainly an eye opener for me. I often think about some sort of ideal and safe utopia for when I get old one day, but wonder if when my time comes, I will find it.

Everyone of any age should have a Will unless they are happy for the law to allocate their money to a next of kin - say to a spouse or parent. If they live abroad then they need a Will in their home country and another abroad. There are several websites now where you can write your will, have it checked by a solicitor and then print it and get it witnessed.

Cedric - at some stage you have to put your trust into someone - ex sex worker or current one. You know when you have given your 'take care boy' a few condo's and enough to make him financially independent that he is trustworthy or very greedy.

I have heard of farangs in Pattaya having a cause in their will which changes the beneficiary if he happens to die - from defenestration or similar.

From searching I find that their are no Nursing Homes in Thailand suitable for Westerners. The idea has been mooted several times and there were plans to build some and promote them in Japan but it came to naught. In the past I have tried to organize professional home nursing at home on a regular basis for an elderly person but could not trace any.

Wowpow,defenestration!!! Is that common? How shocking. I couldn't bear that, the idea of maybe being pushed off a balcony or out of a window, when I had no energy or power to resist. I will always try to live in a villa or on the ground floor.
I suppose you are right there comes a time when you have to trust someone, rent boy or otherwise. It is of course best to trust someone when you are still young and hope things stay the course of time, I think I will do that, anything rather than being pushed out a window by for all intensive purposes a perfect stranger. I would also like to die in a place like Thailand perhaps.

Thats is quite worrying that there is no home care in Thailand. I suppose it is done by the extended family? Yes I think retirement villages for westerners and others would be an excellent idea, I would even buy one now, even though I am still in my twenties, one less thing to worry about isn't it? I like the idea of having something private and lovely to live in, with shady colourful well designed tropical gardens and a common dining room. A small charming clinic for the odd ailment, and a dorm for when I need to die might be useful too. Having been to boarding school most of my life up until now will be a big help I think. I could also use it before I get old, a place to catch my breath. I will of course always need old people in my life, our parents don't live forever as Wx40afp explained, then what?

What are the best sites for making wills and are they proper wills? Who becomes the executer of such an e-mail will?

[Aunty]

Im surprised AUNTY is going to retire in NZ?

But why? This is my home, it's where I'm from. It's my turangawaewae. I already have a grave here so that I will lie and become one with the green land and the open sky and the call of the strong wind that sweeps across from sea to ocean. All my memories (family) lie here too. Where else would I go?

And I would rather put my trust into the State and institutions of this country than into the uncertain promises purchased, when well, from a 'pleasant boy' with a winning smile and an open hand. When one is well it's easy to be smug and self-congratulatory, certain in our undoubted superiority and control of our lives, at any age. But when the body turns and ill-health strikes, the reality of our frailty and the fragility of life exerts its true dominance and shoves our smugness aside. In spite of our best intentions, we are at the mercy of our biology and we get taken along for the ride.

[lonelywombat]

When I travel overseas, I have had a power of attorney medical for a friend in LOS with the authority to
turn off life support systems, as the final option. My friend in Thailand predeceased me

In Oz I had the same POA with a friend of mine aged 17 years younger than me ,
who passed away just weeks away.

I had a bad experience being admitted to hospital in Pattaya without my credit card, that still rankles.

I had registered with a 4 star hotel, given them my POW and on reflection, they did not understand what it was.

There is a need for travellers to have a farang medical support group, to be paid a fee of course but act
in the case of medical emergency on behalf of the tourist.

There are a lot of expats seeking a role to play in Pattaya, not necessarily for reward. Might I suggest this is an area to explore.

[dab69]

wx40a - we don't care about you nOw...

Not to be a heartless bastard but, there are hundreds of thousands of Thai people that are a hell of a lot worse off than this guy sounds.
The difference is, that they don't have the option of social services care to escape to back in Britain if worst comes to worst.

And he has the cheek to complain that people have stopped helping to pay for his piss up sessions at his local? :ho:

*steps down off soapbox* :blackeye:

Not to be a heartless bastard but, there are hundreds of thousands of Thai people that are a hell of a lot worse off than this guy sounds.
The difference is, that they don't have the option of social services care to escape to back in Britain if worst comes to worst.

And he has the cheek to complain that people have stopped helping to pay for his piss up sessions at his local? :ho:

*steps down off soapbox* :blackeye:

I of course fully understand Aunty's sentiments about her homeland, I would love to die in Kenya, even though I am not African as such, it is still much more home than Zurich or London will ever be. I find the notion of being held hostage as an old person by ones nations institutions truly terrifying. As in the case of the British pension that will be stopped if you live abroad. Why should old people loose freedoms, simply because they are old? They have the right to live where ever they fucking want to, and drink their pensions and themselves into the ground if they also want to, and do this where ever they want to on the globe.
So many old people I have seen trapped and bed ridden in the uk with nothing but misery facing them everyday, why, when you are still able and healthy as an old person can you not go to LOS and be happy, and still get your pension and benefits for as long as you want them?

This affects all of us, its easy going through life pretending we will never get old, it deserves all of our support and energies. I wonder what life is like for elderly Dutch nationals abroad or Germans etc, there must be yet another useful European directive aimed at the British that would stop them treating their senior citizens with such utter and disgusting contempt.

Lonelywombat makes a very good point as well, about POA, sometimes I wonder what consulates are really doing with tax payers money, but that is another discussion, it would seem very wise to have someone hold this for you with clear written instruction.