Are HIV/AIDS sufferers welcome in Thailand??

Answer is............

NO, They are not.

HIV/AIDS sufferers are classified under the same banner as "people with communicable diseases" such as Yellow Fever,Typhoid etc.

Under Thai Law,if they have knowledge that you are suffering from HIV/AIDS you are not welcome.

It goes on to say that although a Doctor is not there to administer a test for HIV/AIDS when granting a visa, they may require a Doctors certificate and CAN request you to take a test,especially, if you wish to extend your visa and/or you apply for a long stay visa.

This, in effect, deflates wowpows argument, of the long term goal being to provide a two tier system whereby Thais who have no money, acquire the drugs very cheaply [cheap generics or stolen patents!!!] and middle class Thais and Foreign Residents pay the "going rate" for them!

Why??? Because Foreigners are not welcome if they have the misfortune of having this illness.

So, there you go!

I have never been aware that Foreigners had access to cheap HIV/AIDS drugs or any other drugs in this Country and relied on Foreign suppliers and Foreign clinics that deal with Ex-Pats such as the ones in Bangkok, to acquire the necessary drugs for Heart, HIV/AIDS drugs etc.

Amazing indeed!

Well, I question this a bit.
There is now no health certificate requirement to renew a retirement visa.
Now, if you showed up with obvious HIV, would they do something to block your extension.
I don't know. Anyone know?

I will say another thing. Thailand is actually pretty terrific on allowing in foreigners with HIV. In much of the world HIV specifically excludes you from getting a long term visa. This is so all over South America, even Canada. So I will not be so quick to criticize Thailand on this; they are way ahead of the curve.

Like Kevin I have heard it said that HIV/AIDS sufferers are not welcome in Thailand.

I suspect that like in many countries this was a panic measure in the early days of AIDS.

I know of no website of the Thai Foreign Office, Embassies, Consulates, Thai Immigration or independent site like Thaivisa which state this. I never heard of anyone having any problem with Immigration in this regard. Do you have a source for this info please?

I recently got a Medical Certificate from Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and was asked several health questions. Illnesses like Yellow Fever, Typhoid and Elephantiasis are reportable but no questions were asked regarding HIV/AIDS.

I think it was either an urban myth or a short term measure a long time ago.

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"This, in effect, deflates wowpows argument, of the long term goal being to provide a two tier system whereby Thais who have no money, acquire the drugs very cheaply [cheap generics or stolen patents!!!] and middle class Thais and Foreign Residents pay the "going rate" for them!" kquill

"Mongkol (Thai Minister for Health) and his aides told us they understand the importance of patents. They say they're wary of undermining innovation. But they say the poor of Thailand cannot afford the AIDS drugs, which cost about $2,200 per year of treatment. Thailand's goal is to create a tiered pricing system with the country's middle-class and foreign residents paying market rates while the poor get the drugs for much less." Washington Post

I cannot understand how anyone could confuse the Health Ministers words and think that they were mine. I also don't understand how this has any bearing or relevance to Foreigners with HIV/AIDS being welcome or not. He justs says that foreigners with HIV/AIDS have to pay their own medical bills which is hardly surprising.

Kevin I can sort of understand where you are coming from calling Thailand's production of generic drugs theft. Your outrage may be justified. Can you put your hand on your heart and tell me that you have never bought or watched a copy DVD and that all music and music DVDs played in your bars paid performing rights to the artists and composers?

Hi,

http://www.aidsmap.com/cms1044359.asp


That is where I got it.

I am not saying they harshly enforce it or anything of the sort, but that is their policy to the outside World.

Well, as far as retirement visa extensions are concerned, that info is 100 percent wrong. No medical cert required now. Even when there was one, HIV was on the list of excluding diseases. Alcoholism was, which is actually really funny when you think about how many people got by that one.

.

.

?


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Kevin I can sort of understand where you are coming from calling Thailand's production of generic drugs theft. Your outrage may be justified. Can you put your hand on your heart and tell me that you have never bought or watched a copy DVD and that all music and music DVDs played in your bars paid performing rights to the artists and composers?


If you go into Throb, you will see it is probably the only bar for miles around, that pays for performing rights, artists and composers and music DVDs.

The licences are on the shelf above the cashiers head, below the spirits! There are Grammy and another one!

[Smiles]

" ... Answer is............ NO, They are not . . . HIV/AIDS sufferers are classified under the same banner as "people with communicable diseases" such as Yellow Fever,Typhoid etc. . . . Under Thai Law,if they have knowledge that you are suffering from HIV/AIDS you are not welcome ..."


The prohibited diseases outlined in the official requirements for the O-A multiple entry 12-month (retirement) Visa do not mention AIDS or being HIV+. The 'medical' section states:


Not having prohibitive diseases (Leprosy, Tuberculosis, Drug Addiction, Elephantiasis and Third step of Syphilis) as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535). тАж.
A medical certificate issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) (the certificate shall be valid for not more than three months and should be notarized by notary organs or the applicantтАЩs diplomatic/consular mission).

I'm not saying folks with AIDS would be welcomed with open arms at the gates of LoS (probably not in fact), just that AIDS is not among the prohibited diseases mentioned as probable disqualifications for a long-term visa.

Cheers ...

http://www.aidsmap.com/cms1044359.asp says

"Thailand
According to the law, people with communicable diseases are not allowed to enter Thailand. However, no doctorтАЩs certificate is required at the border, so that an illness (as long as is not known) does not affect the granting of a visa. In some cases, a doctorтАЩs certificate including an HIV test has to be presented when applying for a visa extension (especially when applying for a long-term visa or a residence permit)."

A communicable disease is any that can be passed to others - there are thousands from the common cold upwards.

I never heard of any cases 'requiring' a doctors certificate including an HIV test - did anyone?

To interpret this as saying that people with HIV/AIDS are not welcome in Thailand I think is illogical.


The Knife:
PS my compliments on the Performing rights - I read that they are tightening up on Pattaya bars and one costs about 3500 baht a year but many owners don't know they exist. These permits, I imagine, refer to the use of original published, full priced CDs and DVDs not copies? Comments please.

You did not reply on the watching copy DVDs ? I remember hiding my eyes when you played that one of Robby Williams which was banned by the BBC.

I honestly don't believe that any bar in the country buys all it's recorded music and video entertainments all at full retail price anymore than anyone with an MP3 player pays for all his downloads. This is. of course straightforward theft - a bit like cutting and pasting?

[Jetsam]

The land of the free is not much better in this respect.

Burma has no restriction's, but I guess they welcome everyone who has some dollars in their pocket.


United States of America

In principle, the USA refuses entry to foreign nationals known to be HIV positive. In exceptional cases, a stay of 30 days may be granted (for family visits, medical treatment, business travel or participation in a scientific, health-related conference).

HIV testing or a medical exam are not required. In the visa application form, the applicant has to say if he/she has a тАЬcommunicable disease of public health significanceтАЭ. The visa will be denied if this is the case. An applicant who answers тАЬnoтАЭ despite better knowledge commits an immigration fraud, which leads to immigration prohibition.

HIV-positive foreign nationals lose their right to remain in the USA and are expelled if their status becomes known.


Myanmar (Burma)

No restrictions.

For retiring gay expats who aren't dollar millionaires, I cannot name a friendlier country to HIV people than Thailand. Is it perfect? No. Its just so much better than the other options. Like all of South America.

It would be basically impossible for a foreigner to retire to Burma. No visa for it.

Somehow though Kevin, I detect that with you bringing this subject up, and your sub conscious is telling me that you sort of agree that individuals should not be allowed in Thailand should they have this. What side of the fence are you on as a matter of interest?

It is not really a communicateable disease and to a certain degree controlled by medicine (for those in the west and for those who can afford and also under the Thai health system). However, I feel Thailand is very tolerable towards this.

However, TB is highly contagious; Leprosy is not highly infectious. It is transmitted via droplets, from the nose and mouth, during close and frequent contacts with untreated cases; Elephantiasis is obviously visible, as is 3rd stage Syphllis; well need I say more, and fall under communicateable diseases according to Thai law (I'm assuming the post above is correct).

Whilst I agree that treatment should be available to anyone who requires at any cost, if Thailand continues making generics, then a lot of countries might follow suit and make generics out of everything. Ultimately, the public will not invest into drug companies due to low profits and that will hit drug companies very hard in that they will not be able to spend vast amounts of money on research etc. Its a double edged sword, however, what I feel should be done is that the drug companies should battle it out with relevant countries in this case Thailand and agree a formula - which I believe they have, and exhausted all discussions. But they should get round the table and thrash it out.

[Aunty]

Most countries including the US and NZ (don't know about Thailand) will not grant permanent residency status on persons who are HIV positive. In New Zealand's case this is done in acknowledgment that the long term cost to our health care system (with it's limited resources) of looking after foreign immigrants who are HIV positive is too great, and can only come at the cost of the health of New Zealanders who, after all, paid for it in the first place. It's as simple as that, and I agree with it. It's not this countries responsibility to be paying for another's HIV patients, and I am sure that if you look into it sufficiently, Thailand will have a very similar policy. Bigger fool it if it doesn't. And if it doesn't, it shouldn't be using that as an excuse to steal.

Somehow though Kevin, I detect that with you bringing this subject up, and your sub conscious is telling me that you sort of agree that individuals should not be allowed in Thailand should they have this. What side of the fence are you on as a matter of interest?

It is not really a communicateable disease and to a certain degree controlled by medicine (for those in the west and for those who can afford and also under the Thai health system). However, I feel Thailand is very tolerable towards this.

However, TB is highly contagious; Leprosy is not highly infectious. It is transmitted via droplets, from the nose and mouth, during close and frequent contacts with untreated cases; Elephantiasis is obviously visible, as is 3rd stage Syphllis; well need I say more, and fall under communicateable diseases according to Thai law (I'm assuming the post above is correct).

Whilst I agree that treatment should be available to anyone who requires at any cost, if Thailand continues making generics, then a lot of countries might follow suit and make generics out of everything. Ultimately, the public will not invest into drug companies due to low profits and that will hit drug companies very hard in that they will not be able to spend vast amounts of money on research etc. Its a double edged sword, however, what I feel should be done is that the drug companies should battle it out with relevant countries in this case Thailand and agree a formula - which I believe they have, and exhausted all discussions. But they should get round the table and thrash it out.


WhiteDesire,

If you read my posts, which I have no doubt you have, then they coincide with everything you have said in the last paragraph of your post, except you have gone a little further into detail, which I could have done.

There is no doubt whatsoever, everyone will sit on the fence, and if Thailand is "seen" to get away with it, they will surely follow suit.

Regards the comment on HIV sufferers, you are off the mark a lot.

I was pointing out why they had this restriction in place, It is a LAW although not enforced, [ until they want to, like everything else!!!] when those people are no burden on Thailands Hospitals or anything else, as they must pay for their own and not tell anyone they have it, if they want to stay here.

Then Thailand says they are aiming for a two tier system???

What do they want?????

To say NO, to people with this illness OR you are welcome, but we expect you to pay the going rate!


They are trying the usual Thai way of allowing themselves the flexibility to jump whichever way they want.

Its like trying to catch an eel with your hands smothered in KY!!

I think it was Jingthing who talked about the HIV people being treated well in Thailand etc.

I don't think they are being treated anything!!

I am always suspicious about laws still on the books that they don't enforce anymore, if they don't enforce or need them please can we remove them.

Look at something slightly off topic, the carry your passport thing is out again, A law not enforced, UNTIL IT IS!!

So, I hope that clarifies what I intended to say, even if I may not originally have expressed it clearly enough.

All the best everyone.

Well its relative.
People with HIV are banned from long term visas from countries all over the world. You need to show a recent negative test as part of the screening process for so many countries. For Thailand, you do not. Sounds pretty friendly to me, RELATIVELY. Its not like they will meet you with a brass band and a wheelbarrow full of medications.

Answer is............

NO, They are not.

HIV/AIDS sufferers are classified under the same banner as "people with communicable diseases" such as Yellow Fever,Typhoid etc.

Under Thai Law,if they have knowledge that you are suffering from HIV/AIDS you are not welcome.

It goes on to say that although a Doctor is not there to administer a test for HIV/AIDS when granting a visa, they may require a Doctors certificate and CAN request you to take a test,especially, if you wish to extend your visa and/or you apply for a long stay visa.

This, in effect, deflates wowpows argument, of the long term goal being to provide a two tier system whereby Thais who have no money, acquire the drugs very cheaply [cheap generics or stolen patents!!!] and middle class Thais and Foreign Residents pay the "going rate" for them!

Why??? Because Foreigners are not welcome if they have the misfortune of having this illness.

So, there you go!

I have never been aware that Foreigners had access to cheap HIV/AIDS drugs or any other drugs in this Country and relied on Foreign suppliers and Foreign clinics that deal with Ex-Pats such as the ones in Bangkok, to acquire the necessary drugs for Heart, HIV/AIDS drugs etc.

Amazing indeed!

That's all correct, Kevin.

I was present by myself that a person entering Thailand has been refused visa on arrival because due to his known HIV+ status he wasn’t welcome.

This general rule does apply for many countries, not just Thailand: Sick or suffering foreigners can be rejected from entering a country.

Well back to retirement visas.

To get the first one, no need prove HIV neg. If getting OA abroad, need for health certificate with doesn't mention HIV.
If getting the first extension in Thailand, currently no health certificate needed even the first time, so a worried person could avoid ever filing any certificate.
To get extensions, no need to prove HIV neg. No health certificate required.
(BTW, I don't know of any country in the Americas as liberal as that for a long term visa.)

What is really happening in this scenario, for example.
Expat retired in Thailand for 5 years. He shows up for his yearly extension at immigration. He looks sick with HIV, wasting disease, etc. What will the officer do? Hassle him about his health status, or just approve if the rules are met.
What is really happening in real life? Does anyone know. Because that is what is important in Thailand, real life in practice. Prostitution is illegal, after all, ha ha ha.
This is a very important issue for alot of expats. Not only HIV but other long term chronic diseases. Is immigration pushing sick people out or not?

There is nothing to worry about. No one is ever compelled to take an HIV test for any type of Thai visa, residency, or even citizenship. Immigration officers could care less what you look like.

"seen to get away with"

Kevin - this is exactly what I mean, in your sub conscious somewhere you object to people sponging of the system. Whilst I am not a hardline socialist, and without going to heavily into it, every living person as far as I am concerned is entitled to live in a dignified manner, even if that means sponging off the state. My opinion is it is up to the government to raise taxes etc and distribute monies as best as they can to all segments of society. Everyone is entitled to a piece of the cake.

In an ideal world, we should all have insurance, paying into pension schemes and the like - but that is not reality. If it was not for someone with minimum of qualifications working at 7-11 or a supermarket, we wouldn't be able to buy what we need, similarly at the other end of the spectrum we need lawyers doctors and the like. We have all bought an ice cream on the beach from vendors. Whilst I am not an easy touch, we ALL need help on occasions and support from relevant countries whether we pay for it or not.

Whitedesire,

"seen to get away with" is referring to my point on Thailand attempting to break patents, and not negotiating correctly to find middle ground and saying others will follow their lead.

On that I stand firm, in my own opinion only, against the way they have gone about it.

Others are welcome to their own view. That's why we have an interesting World!

[Uranus]

According to this website: (http://www.aidsnet.ch/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=231) the Thai Minister of Health, Mrs. Sudarat Keyuraphan, during a press conference at the Barcelona International AIDS Conference (July 2002), was asked about the discriminatory regulations. She denied the existence of such legal measures. Later, she presented following written statement: "People with HIV/AIDS are as welcome in Thailand as anybody else".

According to Deutsche Aids-Hilfe 64 countries world wide has no immigration restrictions whatever for people living with HIV. Myanmar (Burma) is one of them, but if you are a Burmese national and HIV positive, you will not be able to get a driver┬┤s licence or study medicine.

13 countries deny people living with HIV and AIDS entry or will expel them if discovered. These countries are: Armenia, Brunei, China, Iraq, Qatar, South Korea, Libya, Moldova, Oman, Russia, Saudi-Arabia, Sudan, and the Uinted States of America. All according to Deutsche Aids-Hilfe.

Uranus,

Your site backs up what I have already said regards the website , I logged into.

There have been no further revision of the laws as far as I can see,regards Thailands position on this, and that is what matters.

Also, your website provides addresses and contacts for foreigners to gain access to drugs, again as I mentioned in one of my posts, on a pay cash per person situation.

Thanks again for your post, it actually reiterated everything I said before.

An individual Doctor making a statement at an Aids conference in Barcelona makes no difference when it is already written into law.

An individual Doctor making a statement at an Aids conference in Barcelona makes no difference when it is already written into law.

She's not a doctor, she was the Minister of Health under Thaksin!

An individual Doctor making a statement at an Aids conference in Barcelona makes no difference when it is already written into law.

She's not a doctor, she was the Minister of Health under Thaksin!

Boygeenyus,

Can a minister of Health enforce a statement contrary to Thai Law??? Nope.

Can He/she making a statement to try and ensure He/she doesn't lose face and renage on it after the conference is over????

For sure. It happens regularly here. Usually, with the " Did I mishear the question??, it was very noisy at the conference!"

Kquill

Yep, all entitled to our opinions, and will leave it there - no offence or anything.

Kquill

Yep, all entitled to our opinions, and will leave it there - no offence or anything.


Whitedesire,

I know you are a genuine poster with a great input and I have complete respect for you, you opinions and your posts.

All the best.

Yes it is amazing and maybe you should have a look at St.Camillus in Thailand / the Medizin i taken myself is European Standard and not stolen. 2 St.Camillus organisation helps all People (children or Adults) with HIV. I like to invide you here to see for yourself what kind of work we are doing here,...it is amazing i am the living prove!
PCU JIMMY :hello2:

Yes you are write than Thailand is certified by the Health - World Organization for there fight against AIDS far on Top on the List and sure everyone have there Owen perspectives of things about HIV/AIDS in Thailand and that makes us Human to discuss and open for opinion . It is fact that Thailand Health System is still finding his Feed but there have a System in place which is name :
Napha System:
The National Access to Antiretroviral Program for PHA (NAPHA) in Thailand.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17121296

I an Happy that People here in this Forum discuss this ...it Information and Hopfully more understanding of the Issue in Hand
Thank you
PCU JIMMY :kap:

You a very wise individual with a good understanding of the feeling about Thai-People ,......yes there are different build up of System in different Country, Thailand is not different from others :nud: But// no but we are Human therefore we learning all aspects of Life the only differentiation is in all culture ..and there we need to understand and learn them from the People to People.Sorry that is only what i feel and out of my 21 Years living here.
PCU JIMMY :bis:

[fountainhall]

I do not know what the law states. Like others, though, I was not asked to undergo an HIV test overseas when I applied there for my Retirement visa a few years ago тАУ and I have never been asked for any medical information at my various annual renewals.

The OP uses the term тАЬwelcomeтАЭ. Again, I know of no restriction that makes those with HIV unwelcome. But to extend the discussion a little, I do think there should be a concern by everyone тАУ Thais, foreigners who live in Thailand and occasional visitors тАУ that the incidence of HIV amongst msm in Thailand is very high тАУ somewhere in the region of 25%.

In Bangkok, HIV prevalence among MSM rose from 17% to 28% between 2003 and 2005 and has since dropped to 24.7% in 2009. HIV prevalence is highest in the large tourist cities like Bangkok, Phuket and Chiang Mai but even in remote provinces, MSM have a far higher rate of HIV infection compared to the general population.
http://www.avert.org/thailand-aids-hiv.htm

I grant this information is a year or so out of date, but I reckon the statistics cannot have improved much. Whilst this site concentrates on msm living in Thailand, there is a far smaller тАУ and therefore obviously far less reliable тАУ statistic to be gleaned from a poll undertaken on the gaybuttonthai site almost two years ago.

The poll asked various questions relating to when respondents had had their last HIV test. 75 responses were received. Of these тАУ

29% had already tested positive
17% had never been tested
34% had had their last test between 2 and 10 years before the poll
20% had been tested within 3 and 12 month prior to the poll

http://gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1637

The only inference that can be drawn from this very unscientific poll is that there are probably a great many foreigners either living in or visiting Thailand who do not know their HIV status or may indeed may be HIV+. So safe sex is necessary not only to protect these guys from HIV; itтАЩs also to protect the boys in the bars and those they meet from gayromeo and other similar sites. Foreigners have the possibility, at least, of health care in their own countries. Whilst technically Thais can also avail themselves of testing and care, as I am sure PCUJIMMY will attest, a good many donтАЩt and merely return to their villages to die. The stigma of HIV remains in this country тАУ and this despite massive advertising campaigns in the 1980s and 1990s which did much to promote condom use and reduce the incidence of HIV. Sadly, the government fell back on its laurels and the campaigns were all but dropped in the early 2000s. Lack of education, it seems to me, is now the primary reason for so many young Thai men and women being exposed to HIV.

Re the other thread on HIV, thanks PCUJIMMY for a kind invitation to help. Like Liamog I think you are doing great and much-needed work here in Thailand.

[ceejay]

I do not know what the law states
It's an old original post, but a current topic. I think the relevant Thai law is worth quoting in full:



Ministerial Regulation
Number 14 (B.E. 2535)
Issued in accordance with the Immigration Act B.E. 2522

Based on article 5, article 12 (4) and article 44 (2) of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522, the Minister of the Ministry of Interior issued this Ministerial Regulation as follows:

No. 1 Repeal the Ministerial Regulation, number 11 (B.E. 2529), issued in accordance with the Immigration Act B.E. 2522.

No. 2 Diseases in accordance with article 12 (4) are:

(1) Leprosy
(2) Dangerous step of Tuberculosis (T.B.)
(3) Filariasis (Step that causes disgust to the society)
(4) Drug addiction
(5) Third step of Syphilis

No. 3 Diseases in accordance with article 44 (2) are:

(1) Leprosy
(2) Dangerous step of Tuberculosis (T.B.)
(3) Filariasis
(4) Drug addiction
(5) Alcoholism
(6) Third step of Syphilis


Given on 20th February B.E. 2535
General Issaraphong Nunphakdee
Minister of the Ministry of Interior

Note: The reason for issuing this Ministerial Regulation is that at present, the situation concerning AIDS has changed immensely. Prevention of infected aliens or those who are HIV positive into or to reside in the Kingdom has no effect on the spread of this disease within the nation. Thus, AIDS should not be set as a disease for prohibiting aliens infected with such disease to travel into or to reside in the Kingdom as in accordance with the articles 12 (4) and 44 (2) of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522.

The last paragraph is very clear on the subject.

[fountainhall]

Thanks for the clarification, ceejay. The official government line certainly seems crystal clear.