Why am I Gay? Was it God or Mama made me this way?

I picked up on an interesting website on thaivisa Gay posted by Peter991

http://www.borngayprocon.org/

"1-Minute Overview
"Is sexual orientation determined at birth?"

Whether sexual orientation is a trait we are born with (nature) or is caused by the environment we are raised in (nurture) has been hotly debated by scientists, religious leaders, elected officials, and the general public. Many who believe that homosexuality is a personality disorder and a choice do not feel that those individuals are entitled to marriage and adoption rights, discrimination and hate crime protection, and social and religious acceptance. Others claim that homosexuality is a biological characteristic that is unchangeable and to deny those individuals civil rights is similar to discriminating based on race or gender. We feel that our pro-con format is well suited to explore this debate in further detail.


PRO: Proponents feel that sexual orientation is determined naturally by genes or hormones, and most believe that it can not be changed. They believe that because homosexuality is something people are born with, these individuals are entitled to the same legal rights and protections as any other person, such as marriage and protection from discrimination.

CON: Opponents believe that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice resulting from poor child-parent relationships, being a victim of sexual abuse, or other developmental causes. They argue that legal rights should not be extended to homosexuals because they have chosen this lifestyle, and many suggest methods of changing homosexual orientation including therapy and prayer." ┬а

I have always been attracted to males since I was about 6 years old. I cannot raise the slightest interest or reaction with women. I therefor consider myself a perfect homosexual. Many of my UK friends have been married and produced children but all are now separated. Several remain closeted which I think is sad.

I have often heard of men discovering their homosexuality later in life but I never heard of a homosexual discovering that he was heterosexual?

[Aunty]

If homosexuality was a choice, how come there are gay sheep, cows, birds and other animals given that we do not consider animals capable of making such complex choices? The only explanation that can account for homosexuality in animals, and humans, is that this is not a simple matter of choice but a simple matter of genetics - DNA, the one thing we all have in common.

The concept that homosexuality is a genetic trait implies that sexuality in general is a genetic trait, whether it be homosexuality or heterosexuality.

Hello my friend,I too have asked this question on this website and have been given about the same advice,NONE,Why are we Gay? It is simple,and it is not your fault! You need to read KINSEY who did a study in the 50s and that should explain all. If you need a little more I advise you to look at the bell curve for homosexuality and I think you will find yourself without a problem,certaintly just a man.

Response: "Do you think she'd knit me one too"

[Smiles]

" ... It's not your fault! ... "

:cheers: :cheers: :clown: :clown: :cheers: :cheers:

[jinks]

I'm one of those people that my mummy warned me about.

I'm one of those people that my mummy warned me about.

It's not limited to the midlands!

It was not until 1973 that the American Psychiatric Association finally declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder but it was still regarded as confused or disturbed sexuality. In Britain however the situation had not progressed as far and in 1975 the British Medical journal was still publishing articles on possible treatments including hormonal therapy, aversion therapy and most bizarrely therapy `to mobilise the heterosexual elements' whatever that might mean! Finally in 1992 the WHO deleted homosexuality from its list of mental disorders and the UK government followed suit in 1993.

GENETICS
New research in America lead by Dr Dean Harmer of the United States National Cancer Institute in Bethesda has suggested that there may be a genetic cause for homosexuality. Two years ago he published a study which suggested that 82% of homosexual men carried a marker the Xq28 on the X chromosome. The X chromosome is the chromosome men inherit from their mothers. He was lead to research this because he found that gay men have more gay cousins and other relatives on their mother's side. In 1995 Dr Hamer and colleagues from the University of Colorado and the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Cambridge, Massachusetts, published the result of another experiment. They examined 32 pairs of exclusively or mainly gay brothers and found that 22 or 69% shared the Xq28 region. This research has now been questioned by an equally distinguished group of scientists lead by Dr George Ebers of the University of Western Ontario. The jury is still out and we must await developments.

http://www.lgcm.org.uk/bible/chap6.htm

[bigben]

This topic reminds of something I read on a T-shirt somewhere.......

" I'm not gay but my boyfriend is"

[Sen Yai]

This topic reminds of something I read on a T-shirt somewhere.......

" I'm not gay but my boyfriend is"

bigben, in Thailand the shirt says: "I am gay but my boyfriend isn't" !

Mine says:

I ain't got no money but my boyfriend is a moneyboy who can't read English

[Aunty]

Here is the theory: a mother who has given birth to a number of boys may have a biological reaction against giving birth to yet another boy, and may send the female hormones flying to a male fetus. The child is born gay, and yet his gayness has almost nothing at all to do with his own genes. It has everything to do with the genes of his mother.

Jaafar

Well that's all very interesting but how does your theory account for lesbians, (a flood of male hormones in a women? - how come these have not been previously detected) or gay men like myself who were the only male born in the family?

If you look at sexuality as being controlled by genes, some that determine an attraction for males, others that determine an attraction for females, this provides a much more satisfactory explanation for all the sexualities, heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality. It is the combination of these genes inherited from our parents that determines our sexuality, brought about by the exact same well known and well understood mechanisms of genetic recombination that takes place during meiosis, and that happens to all our genes when eggs and sperm are formed.

If you called these genes M (attraction to males) and F (attraction to females) , men who inherit more Fs' than Ms, would be heterosexual; women who inherit more Ms than Fs, would also be heterosexual; males who receive more Ms than Fs would be gay, women with more Fs than Ms would be lezzies, and men and women who inherit equal numbers of Ms and Fs would be bisexual.

It would be the number of these Ms and Fs that our biological parents possessed that would determine the probability of our sexuality, and in given population at large, these would probably (an assumption on my part) cover something like a normal bell-shaped distribution curve. A parent who carries more (or fewer) Ms or Fs than the normal number would increase the probability that a child will have a sexuality other than heterosexuality.

That's my theory.

There are other possible further epigenetic mechanisms (e.g.DNA methylation) that might explain how sexuality develops (which I think fits more into your ideas, Jaafar), but I won't go into those.

bigben, in Thailand the shirt says: "I am gay but my boyfriend isn't" !You do see the most amazing statements on T-shirts in Thailand. My favourite so far is "I'm shy - but I've got a big dick" and on a girl "You're a very naughty girl - go to my room"

Certainly far more interesting than Tourette (Aunty) trotting out the Null Hypothesis again

bigben, in Thailand the shirt says: "I am gay but my boyfriend isn't" !

And it's given to you free by all the major banks everytime you open an account with ATM for your Boy Specials.

It was not until 1973 that the American Psychiatric Association finally declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder but it was still regarded as confused or disturbed sexuality. In Britain however the situation had not progressed as far and in 1975 the British Medical journal was still publishing articles on possible treatments including hormonal therapy, aversion therapy and most bizarrely therapy `to mobilise the heterosexual elements' whatever that might mean! Finally in 1992 the WHO deleted homosexuality from its list of mental disorders and the UK government followed suit in 1993.

GENETICS
New research in America lead by Dr Dean Harmer of the United States National Cancer Institute in Bethesda has suggested that there may be a genetic cause for homosexuality. Two years ago he published a study which suggested that 82% of homosexual men carried a marker the Xq28 on the X chromosome. The X chromosome is the chromosome men inherit from their mothers. He was lead to research this because he found that gay men have more gay cousins and other relatives on their mother's side. In 1995 Dr Hamer and colleagues from the University of Colorado and the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Cambridge, Massachusetts, published the result of another experiment. They examined 32 pairs of exclusively or mainly gay brothers and found that 22 or 69% shared the Xq28 region. This research has now been questioned by an equally distinguished group of scientists lead by Dr George Ebers of the University of Western Ontario. The jury is still out and we must await developments.

http://www.lgcm.org.uk/bible/chap6.htm


Yes. ...

If I remember correctly from previos lectures:

Homosexuality is a naturally genetic malfunction which appears at any fourth generation more obvious.

The strength of Y (male) and Xp26 (female) chromosome are controlling masculinity; according to there development, someone’s preferring is turning out towards either same or opposite sex. YX chromosome = homosexual, XX = Hermaphrodite

Therefore: Everybody is a homosexual, it just the level of homosexuality varies. Bi-sexual people are the between.

This is nothing new. Findings are dating back since 1996 (regarding DNA researches). This is not just related to humans, but also animals.

Nearly anywhere around the globe the ratio of gay male population is about 35 in thousand or 19 for female. The number is slightly changing since about 10 years. Many Scientifics believe this is due the impact of changed diet, the industrially modifies food is having his impacts on people.

Something to think about: if, as a worldwide trend, more gays are electing to live their lives in an open fashion, aren't we in danger of dying out? I mean, in the "good" old bigoted days, homosexuals got into sham marriages and had kids -- presumably handing down the gay gene. When they live their lives as openly gay people, they don't usually reproduce, and the gene therefore meets a dead end.

Children with Homosexual or Bisexual fathers don't seem to be more likely to turn out gay than the average. None of my 'married' friends children are gay.

It's things like this that cloud the gene theory.

Children with Homosexual or Bisexual fathers don't seem to be more likely to turn out gay than the average. None of my 'married' friends children are gay.

It's things like this that cloud the gene theory.

No one said it has to manifest itself in every generation.

Children with Homosexual or Bisexual fathers don't seem to be more likely to turn out gay than the average. None of my 'married' friends children are gay.

It's things like this that cloud the gene theory.

No one said it has to manifest itself in every generation.

Correct,

I have two sons 17 and 21 and they are not gay.

Children with Homosexual or Bisexual fathers don't seem to be more likely to turn out gay than the average. None of my 'married' friends children are gay.

It's things like this that cloud the gene theory.

No one said it has to manifest itself in every generation.

Correct,

I have two sons 17 and 21 and they are not gay.

Well, they haven't met me yet! Ha ha ha, ho ho ho.

[Aunty]

Children with Homosexual or Bisexual fathers don't seem to be more likely to turn out gay than the average. None of my 'married' friends children are gay.

It's things like this that cloud the gene theory.

Ah no, it doesn't actually. I would happily explain but I'm sure none of you want a turgid lesson in genetics. (even if you could understand it).

Several posters above seem to imply that there is a single scientific cause for what are in fact multiple behaviours varied from the socially constructed approved missionary position following "marriage".

I'm told, by folk that have done post-docs in this area that the current state is that there are many viable theories, ergo no single cause. Further, much of the sponsoring of the research done twenty years ago came from sources with agendas seeking "the cure". As it has become apparent there is going to be no single cure and that the ethics of a cure for a re non-disease are dubious anyway, so the funds have dried up.

[Aunty]

In response to wowpow's post above that gay and bisexual men by not going on to have gay children somehow rules out a gene theroy for homosexuality -

Ah, no, it doesn't actually. (Did you actually read what I wrote?) We don't only inherit genes from our fathers. Furthermore due to its apparent variability, it seems unlikely that genes for sexuality act in a dominant manner.

Perhaps one day they'll identify the "Muscle Mary" gene, and freaks like wowpow will finally be accepted in society.

[Aunty]

Jesus, what the fuck is going on here? first of all it tells me it can't post becuase of some debug crap, and now it does multiple posts of my post.

ElephantSpike, have you been fucking with the source code again????

Aunty have you developed a stutter?

Aunty developed a stutter?

or board going nuts?

Aunty - you developed a stutter or the board go haywire lol?

Here are a couple of articles from very reputable scientific sources about the way parasites alter the mind or behaviour of their host.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/mid_/3257138.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/850556.stm

I am not trying to suggest there is any evidence that "gayness" could be caused this way, but, who knows. The more science discovers, the more real science fiction becomes

sorry, double post

Something to think about: if, as a worldwide trend, more gays are electing to live their lives in an open fashion, aren't we in danger of dying out? I mean, in the "good" old bigoted days, homosexuals got into sham marriages and had kids -- presumably handing down the gay gene. When they live their lives as openly gay people, they don't usually reproduce, and the gene therefore meets a dead end.

now... why would you want to re-produce hon... for heaven sake please let it end with you!!!!!!!!!!!! :geek:

Perhaps one day they'll identify the "Muscle Mary" gene, and freaks like wowpow will finally be accepted in society.

or a defective gene like BG can be discarded

You sure are opinionated for a newbie. Did you forget the password to your other hydra accounts?

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

your mother warned me about you. :idea:

Something to think about: if, as a worldwide trend, more gays are electing to live their lives in an open fashion, aren't we in danger of dying out? I mean, in the "good" old bigoted days, homosexuals got into sham marriages and had kids -- presumably handing down the gay gene. When they live their lives as openly gay people, they don't usually reproduce, and the gene therefore meets a dead end.

now... why would you want to re-produce hon... for heaven sake please let it end with you!!!!!!!!!!!! :geek:

To echo your words beary. P E R L E A S E No. Can you imagine what it would be like to have more of him running around? Oh my Buddha, perish the thought. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/scared.gif


G.

Children with Homosexual or Bisexual fathers don't seem to be more likely to turn out gay than the average. None of my 'married' friends children are gay.

It's things like this that cloud the gene theory.


That's true. According to old fashion Mendel’s theory it's more likely that it’s any fourth generation which accumulates the "gay" genes. This is in line with modern Scientifics. ..

Therefore, a gay dad doesn't necessarily have a gay son or grand son - but most likely a more tolerant one if the son’s are growing happily within a stable gay relationship. …

The trouble is, those parents of gay children fear they’re gay by themselves – which is only partly true but of no relevance of there own sexuality.

The same works vice versa .. and makes the shrinks happy and rich.

Children with Homosexual or Bisexual fathers don't seem to be more likely to turn out gay than the average. None of my 'married' friends children are gay.

It's things like this that cloud the gene theory.

No one said it has to manifest itself in every generation.

Correct,

I have two sons 17 and 21 and they are not gay.

Good boy ...

Just dive back into your history line. Someone (Grand dad od his dad / Grand mom or her mom) must have had some secrets dreams .....

Before Hirschfeld, the concept of "gayness" wasn't that clear - I might thing they used do have more fun during the grand old days .. :-))