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ChrisUK
May 18th, 2007, 21:40
This second half of the fourth part of my experiment covers the three month period from January to April, completing the trial of spending 5 out of 6 months during the UK winter period. It has effectively enabled me to come to a conclusion about my future stays in Thailand for the immediate future.

The previous reports on my experimental stages can be read either on my blog at:
http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... g.php?w=25 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/weblog.php?w=25)

Or in the Resource forum at:
http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... php?t=6755 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6755)
http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... php?t=2197 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2197)
http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... 54&start=0 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6954&start=0)

Posters replies to my reports can be read on the links to the Resource forum.

The first part of this latest winter period can be found at the following link:
http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... 57e7ddefb5 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10142&sid=f370138916728c6256c5b257e7ddefb5)


I have to admit, the relatively short period between this trip and the last (just 5 weeks), put me in a bit of a dilemma, trying to enjoy the festivities of Christmas and New Year in the UK, while my thoughts were still of Thailand and the previous two months, yet looking forward to the next three months when I would return. When I consider the expense and stress of arranging the two trips in such a way, I think that in future, it would be far more sensible to amalgamate the two trips into one and make it a full 5 of 6 months trip, without the break which proved disruptive and unnecessary.

As much as I like celebrating the festive season in the UK, I had experienced that period in Thailand just a year previously and realised that, although it was good to visit UK friends and family, I would have had just as much fun in Thailand. As a result, IтАЩve already made provisional plans to make my next trip a full 6 months.

Preparations:

The Multiple Entry Non-Immigrant O Visa, which I obtained from the local Thai consulate in the UK in September (valid for 12 months and costing ┬г90 or 6,300 Bt) was used to enter Thailand for the 90 day stay. My annual multi trip insurance, also obtained in September and costing ┬г73 or 5,110 Bt covered this trip too. The flights on EVA (Economy non-stop from London Heathrow) were booked via Airline Network in September for ┬г587 or 41,090 Bt., in the hope I would be able to upgrade to Elite class at check-in, a hope that was dashed yet again by a fully booked flight. I topped up my holiday account, accessible via the ATMтАЩs abroad, to last for the trip, plus 50% more to cover any unexpected expenses. Finally, I booked a taxi for the trip to Pattaya from the Airport using an e-mail to Mim at N&S Travel in Sunnee Plaza (website: http://www.gardencentre.com.au/suneeplaza/nstravel.htm ) costing 1100Bt plus 100Bt for tolls and parking, payable to the driver on arrival.

Settling in:

The journey went smoothly and all the connections made without a hitch, leaving my home at 2.30pm, departing Heathrow at 9.30pm and arriving at the pre-booked apartment in South Pattaya at 7pm the following day. I arrived in the lobby of the apartment to be greeted by a group of expat friends who dutifully waited for me to do a quick wash and change, then escort me to one of the many restaurants used by the Fine Dining Society for the evening meal. I felt immediately at home thanks to their reception. After the meal, we went to the usual venues for drinks and entertainment which all helped me settle in very quickly. It was as if I hadnтАЩt gone home for Christmas after all!

I had brought the Thai mobile phone, previously purchased as a necessity to keep in touch with friends on a regular basis when planning the daysтАЩ events. This I soon topped up (costing 900 Bt), as the SIM card was still valid, to keep it operating for another 3 months. I soon realised this was a mistake as I discovered that purchasing a new special тАШannualтАЩ SIM (sold in pink boxes) would mean I no longer needed to top up monthly after fitting to the phone. My UK mobile also came with me so I could keep in touch with the UK for any reason.

Once again I had the apartment with the fantastic view, overlooking Pattaya Bay and the Temple. It was my home for the next 3 months with its European style kitchen and bathroom, king size bed and spacious lounge area. Of course, the noise was still there; the Temple and nearby schools kicking off at 7.30 am, together with the car park construction adjacent to the apartment block! Thankfully, the management committee of the block had issued a decree that no room renovations should occur during the high season (Nov to March in this case I think), so there was minimal noise from inside the building.

Same-same routine;

Having settled in, I remembered I was there for the long haul this time, so made no special effort to go wild, but to gradually ease myself in to a pleasant routine that was comfortable for me. This included a late rise in the morning with a light breakfast in the apartment; a trip to the beach at Jomtien; return to the apartment for a short nap; shower and change of clothes for the evening meal; visit various bars for drinks and entertainment. All of this in the company of the friends I have got to know over the last couple of years; expats, long-stay residents and short term visitors. The weather was good as was the pleasant sight of local Thais either on the beach or in the bars. Occasionally, some would accept my invitation to тАЬcome my loomтАЭ, - always a mutually pleasurable experience.

I was always aware during this trip of the presence of a friendly expat who gave us updates on his progress on learning the Thai language. He had been persevering with his lessons for many months, using a local teacher on a daily one-toтАУone basis, learning written as well as spoken Thai. Always, he had his homework book with him, not wishing to waste any opportunity to learn. He seemed to be going through agony as he related how difficult it was for him by showing us his latest homework assignment. I sympathised with him every day and truly hope it all comes together eventually at some time in the future, but it still seems like it will be a long time into the future. Others, I have learnt, have given up after long periods of trying. Others, however, have managed to master the difficult nuances of the Thai language. I fear that I will fall into the group of people who experience too many difficulties, even although I know it would be a fantastic achievement to be able to communicate fully with Thai people. Most expats I know rely on picking up a few key words to get along. I think my best bet will be to compile and learn a significant list of key words which will, hopefully, enable me to make myself understood, albeit on a limited basis.

An unfortunate death:

Early on in this trip, I suddenly missed the regular visit on the beach of an old flame from years gone by. He used to give massages and then sold DVDs to customers there. Named тАЬManтАЭ, I knew him as тАЬMenтАЭ when I first enjoyed his company in the 90тАЩs, I soon discovered from others that he had sadly died in a freak accident by slipping in the bath and hitting his head, causing a fatal injury. I saw a post on one of the forums shortly after, mentioning his death. One contributor commented on his good looks when he was working in a bar in his earlier years. Another mentioned his pushy attitude when selling his services on the beach. He had both the looks and the attitude. I shall forever remember him as one of those who helped me get acquainted with the scene in Pattaya and the memorable days he spent with me. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to me he was a handsome young man in those days, although his figure expanded in recent years. IтАЩve thought about whether I should post his picture from those days and think that he would want me to do so, so here he is in my loom at the Grand Hotel on Soi 14:

<center>тАЬMenтАЭ/тАЭManтАЭ</center>

<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/ChrisUK/Men0001aMedium.jpg</center>


Party nights in Pattaya and Jomtien:

During the first four weeks of this trip, I and other friends enjoyed a street party in Jomtien with food and cabaret organised by some of the venues in the Jomtien Complex. There always seems to be a good spirit from such parties and this one was also organised to be a fund-raiser to help pay for urgent medical treatment for one of the long-standing and respected expats in Pattaya.

Another benefit for the same person was also held at Caf├й Royale where, in addition to the meal, we were treated to a cabaret from Maisie Trollette, a very funny drag act from the UK whose dry humour might not have been appreciated by all in attendance, but loved by me. The resident singer Toi added his talent in a duet with Maisie and another enjoyable evening passed

Trips out of Pattaya:

I enjoyed a couple of trips away from Pattaya during my stay which were organised by friends. The first was a half day trip to the nearby port which had checkpoints before the docks, so we were unfortunately unable to get close. We then went on to тАШSaha FarmsтАЩ, a grand site which included the residence of the owner of a large supplier of chickens in the area. The owner had developed his estate to include many fine buildings and glorious garden areas which were open to the public. Unfortunately, we did not have the time to explore the estate, but the 200 Bt entrance fee would have enabled us to visit the site closely. As it was, even the gardens on the edge of the grounds were immaculate and gave impressive views.

<center>Saha Farms</center>

<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/ChrisUK/SahaFarmsMedium.jpg</center>


On a second trip, we hired a minibus and seven of us (six farangs and one Thai) went on a weekend away to Korat, from where many of the guys who work in the bars of Pattaya come. It is situated about six hours drive North of Pattaya on the edge of the Isaan area. We found a comfortable hotel in the centre of town for 500 Bt per night. It was a large town with a couple of shopping centres/malls and a river running through the centre. We arrived on the eve of the day when they commemorated the woman who, legend has it, defeated an invading army by sleeping with its leader and killing him during the affair. IтАЩm afraid I donтАЩt have the name or dates with me as the details are in the resource book left in my apartment, but here is the statue of the woman.

<center>Statue of Woman who saved Korat</center>

<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/ChrisUK/WomanwhosavedKoratMedium.jpg</center>


After eating Thai food at a local restaurant and exploring the town and its riverside, we bedded down for the night. The following day, we travelled a bit further to the town of Phimai to visit the тАЬHistorical ParkтАЭ, the site of ancient temple ruins, supposedly older than Ankor Wat, then on to the Ban Prasat Museum containing the remains of a burial site. Nearby was тАЬSai-YoiтАЭ, or тАЬSweeping BanyansтАЭ, also known as тАЬSai-NgarmтАЭ which means the тАЬarea of the splendid BanyansтАЭ, where a massive area was covered by the spread of a Banyan Tree whose branches had aerial roots which dropped down into the ground, assisting its growth. According to the notice nearby, the tree covered over 35,000 square feet and was over 350 years old. I was mesmerised as I wandered around under this huge canopy. It also included a shrine underneath its branches.

<center>Thais at the Banyan Tree Shrine</center>

<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/ChrisUK/ThaisattheBanyanTreeshrineMedium.jpg</center>


<center>Phimai Historical Park</center>

<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/ChrisUK/PhimaiHistoricalParkaMedium.jpg</center>


We then headed home for the six hour journey back to Pattaya having completed an exhausting but rewarding and unusual weekend excursion. Of course, a couple of us were suffering from the runs by now, so we ensured that Immodium was readily to hand!

Views of a Medium-Term Resident:

I stand to be corrected on my thoughts in this section, but I have now spent several trips of up to three months each to Pattaya over the last couple of years. I have found them very rewarding experiences and very different from the short-term holidays of up to three weeks which I used to take. The longer trips have enabled me to take a much more leisurely approach to my time in Thailand, whilst still enjoying the extremes the country has to offer. I have also been able to stand back and watch the proceedings from a distance, pondering over the antics of others at festivals like Songkran, or seeing Thais reverently following their Buddhist beliefs whilst in contrast acknowledging their ability to let their anger come to the surface in some bloody murders. The two festivals of Songkran and Loy Krathong are approached so differently in Pattaya, yet their Thai roots are both peaceful and beautiful, as celebrated in other parts of the country. I have similar contrasts in my mind when I enjoy the different sides of living in Thailand; on the one hand I love the entertaining shows to be found in the various bars but on the other, I also love the sublime bliss in getting to know the Thai guys on a more personal level.

I recognise that the tourism industry in Thailand is based on a variety of needs and interests of visitors and much of it founded on the original expectations of American forces in the Vietnam War pursuing their тАЬRest and RecreationтАЭ periods in the country. However, I notice with dismay, the attitude and behaviour of many farangs is contributing to an unpleasant situation. You may recall from my previous reports, the post I started on тАЬCommon Courtesy Eludes Impatient Farang in Go-Go BarтАЭ (found at: http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index ... c=929&st=0 (http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=929&st=0) ) where another farang tried to snatch a guy who was drinking with me. I am becoming increasingly aware of many other arrogant and selfish farangs who donтАЩt bother with any protocol, but just go storming in either subtly or blatantly, to get whatever they want, regardless of who they offend or hurt in the process. The extravagant ones with fat wallets are, of course, going to get their way as excessive amounts of money usually persuade others to do what they might not otherwise have done. IтАЩm not saying that all rich farangs behave similarly, - most, IтАЩm sure would not abuse their privileged status and I know many are generous to a fault, but some are arriving here throwing their cash around determined to get their fixes without a thought for others before moving on.

ItтАЩs a situation that is inevitable, given human nature, but I wonder what effect itтАЩs all having on the future development in the Land of Smiles where once, you could guarantee the loyalty of your Thai friend; where once, you could reward the loyalty with an appropriate gift or payment, without the expectation of it being an overgenerous cash handout. I fear this trend will inevitably lead to price increases far larger than inflation, so that eventually financial expectations could match those in Europe.

Overall view of my trip and looking to the future:

Three months was the limit of my visa (without doing a тАШvisas runтАЩ) and my travel insurance. It was interesting and beneficial for me to fit 5 months over this winter period in Thailand. It was the final test of how I would cope with what I now regard as the ideal of 6 months here and 6 months there. Apart from the last few weeks when I didnтАЩt pace myself properly and the changing weather started affecting me resulting in ending up exhausted and ready to go home, the experience was good and I now look forward to living that dream retirement in the sun and escaping when it gets too damn hot and humid. Maintaining my base in the UK and enjoying the summers there; then in winter renting an apartment or even possibly a house for 6 months not far from the exhilarating scene that exists in Pattaya with its nightlife, gay beach at Jomtien, and the many friends IтАЩve made in recent years.

I would love to rent a motorbike or car and explore the countryside beyond Pattaya more frequently. It is not difficult to get an International licence, although insurance restrictions and my own safety on the roads of Thailand need to be considered.

Noise is still a big issue for me and I now look forward to testing a different apartment next winter for a couple of months, where double sets of doors and windows are fitted. It will be a one-bedroom apartment as well, which should further help to insulate me from the noise at the time I need to sleep. Lack of sleep is the constant downside to all my trips and itтАЩs not because I party to excess. After that, for the remaining four months I look forward to returning to the original apartment where, if my landlord keeps true to his word, it will be double glazed.

Costs of this trip:

I was much more adventurous with the local Thai guys this time and hence I expected the costs of entertaining would be much higher than previously. However, I spread the sessions out over the three months so that ultimately, I was happy to discover that although the overall costs of the trip were higher than previous ones, they were not much beyond the planned ┬г1,000 (70,000 Bt) per month budget. My expenses in Thailand (rent, food, travel, entertainment, etc.) came to ┬г3,332 (233,240 Bt), while those outside were approximately ┬г800 (56,000 Bt) (flights, insurance, visa, house checks, etc.)

Once again my thanks go to all who made this trip enjoyable, from the Thai guys to the farangs, both expats and others. A special thanks goes to the person for whom the benefit nights were held; PG who gave me a wealth of information through his website in the early days. I wish him all the best in his recovery.

Final thoughts on my future in Thailand:

As long as I can settle in as easily in the future as I have over the last two trips, I know that I can happily stay in Thailand for a full six months over the winter period when the weather is less extreme and more suited for me, coming from the UK. Staying for one long trip will reduce the stress and expense of making the previously regular two shorter trips per year. The obvious place for me to stay is in Pattaya, close to the nightlife with the gay beach easily accessible. I now have solutions in mind to combat the noise problem, even if it means sacrificing the lovely view from the balcony and moving to another apartment or a house, тАУ a satisfactory nightтАЩs sleep is of paramount importance. Rental remains the obvious choice for me as I intend to maintain my house in the UK. It also gives me the option to change accommodation should circumstances change, such as unpleasant neighbours moving in, etc.

Although I prefer the option of flying non-stop from the UK to Bangkok, usually using EVA, I now am prepared to consider the range of two-legged flights on offer. Qatar is currently the one IтАЩm considering, flying from Heathrow for ┬г471 (32,970 Bt) in economy and booking through Airline Network (http://www.airline-network.co.uk ), which is ┬г154 (10,780 Bt) cheaper than EVA, the cheapest non-stop flight, although adding about four hours to the journey time. As I shall be staying for such a long time in future, the potential for extra hassle travelling this way will be of no great importance. I will be ensuring that the terms and conditions of the flights enable me to change the return date at little or no expense should the need arise.

I have had time since returning to the UK to analyse my finances over the last year and am pleased to realise that I can continue maintaining my house in the UK as well as support extended trips to Thailand of half a year, based on the current level of expenditure. This assumes of course, that the value of Sterling against the Baht does not decrease too much.

Travel insurance seems to be available for such extended trips, covering all I need, especially medical emergencies. I currently have insurance from тАШInsure and GoтАЩ (http://www.insureandgo.com ). The only downside to the insurance is the knowledge that most companies will only cover me up to the age of 65 for these trips. After that age, they will only cover me for up to 31 days. Hopefully, I will have resolved this difficulty by the time I reach that age. Suggestions from older long-stay residents who come from the UK and are insured through a UK company would be appreciated.

Another multiple entry non-immigrant O visa seems to be the best option, as I would need to do a visa run after the first 90 days and it would also permit the occasional trip to neighbouring countries.

ThatтАЩs it! IтАЩm ready to start enjoying what summer in the UK has to offer, once it stops raining. I shall enjoy reading the occasional e-mail or text message from friends in Thailand and elsewhere. After that, I look forward to seeing you all sometime during next winter.

Chok dee,

Chris.

Smiles
May 18th, 2007, 22:07
Thanks so much for the lengthy report Chris. An interesting read and nicely detailed, especially in the light of my personal situation of a November/07 retirement, and shacking up with the Beloved in Hua Hin.

Cheers ...

May 19th, 2007, 02:34
Thanks for that Chris. I too spent from 1Jan - 1Apr in Pattaya, with a week in Chang Mai, and got thru exactly the same amount of money as you did!
I use Yensabi Condo which, as you probably know, is handy but not too exotic! There were no real noise problems there.
I wondered where you stayed?
G

May 19th, 2007, 05:10
... even for those of us who are not Pattaya-centric

bao-bao
May 19th, 2007, 06:06
Thank you for the time and effort to post such an extensive, detailed and colorful story! The pictures were nice, too.

It sounds as though you've found yourself a good balance between LOS and the UK and I wish you the best in both "homes."

Further stories would be most welcome!

May 19th, 2007, 15:25
An interesting piece Chris. You don't mention if you are learning the language and any success or failure you might be having with that.

Brad the Impala
May 19th, 2007, 15:31
An interesting piece Chris. You don't mention if you are learning the language and any success or failure you might be having with that.


I was always aware during this trip of the presence of a friendly expat who gave us updates on his progress on learning the Thai language. He had been persevering with his lessons for many months, using a local teacher on a daily one-toтАУone basis, learning written as well as spoken Thai. Always, he had his homework book with him, not wishing to waste any opportunity to learn. He seemed to be going through agony as he related how difficult it was for him by showing us his latest homework assignment. I sympathised with him every day and truly hope it all comes together eventually at some time in the future, but it still seems like it will be a long time into the future. Others, I have learnt, have given up after long periods of trying. Others, however, have managed to master the difficult nuances of the Thai language. I fear that I will fall into the group of people who experience too many difficulties, even although I know it would be a fantastic achievement to be able to communicate fully with Thai people. Most expats I know rely on picking up a few key words to get along. I think my best bet will be to compile and learn a significant list of key words which will, hopefully, enable me to make myself understood, albeit on a limited basis.

Dboy
May 19th, 2007, 16:25
"I fear that I will fall into the group of people who experience too many difficulties, even although I know it would be a fantastic achievement to be able to communicate fully with Thai people. Most expats I know rely on picking up a few key words to get along. I think my best bet will be to compile and learn a significant list of key words which will, hopefully, enable me to make myself understood, albeit on a limited basis."

Don't be too quick to draw this conclusion. It's not really that hard to learn. I'm currently taking classes at AUA Pattaya and can already feel the improvement half way through the course. I carry 1 or two notecards with me all the time with various vocabulary words/phrases to practice.

Dboy

May 19th, 2007, 20:54
That was really informative, Chris. I'm hoping to do the same as you (although may be buy something at distressed prices in View Talay ... still looking :cherry:

May 20th, 2007, 02:23
Who told you that Thai law respects US licenses?

And why do you think a Bangkok street cop will care what the law may or may not say? You're asking for trouble...

May 20th, 2007, 06:52
I have a professional interest in this, since I've been an English teacher for many years.

I have a professional interest in this as I've been an English teacher for many years.

Jetsam
May 20th, 2007, 07:29
I have a professional interest in this, since I've been an English teacher for many years.

I have a professional interest in this as I've been an English teacher for many years.


Very sharp, and since I don't know the difference as such because I'm not an English teacher. I'll not comment.

May 20th, 2007, 07:40
I have a professional interest in this, since I've been an English teacher for many years. I have a professional interest in this as I've been an English teacher for many years.But he is an American. Don't forget English is their second language

Aunty
May 20th, 2007, 08:51
I have a professional interest in this, since I've been an English teacher for many years.

I have a professional interest in this as I've been an English teacher for many years.

OK Miss Smartypants. Let's really put you to the test. Tell us why!

Anyway getting back to the actual topic of this thread, Chris' very interesting post, I would like to know what he does with his home back in Britain while he's in Thailand. `Chris, do you rent it out, and does that help provide an income for your stay in LOS?

May 20th, 2007, 15:13
DELETED

May 20th, 2007, 15:52
10 am!!!!!
Who gets up that EARLY??????

piston10
May 20th, 2007, 17:44
... but Aunty is right to challenge Yimsuai on his quite misguided correction of 'since' to 'as'. The Oxford English Dictionary shows that 'since' has been used in English as a conjunction meaning 'inasmuch as' or 'as' since the fifteenth century (the other main use of the word!), and is still current. Does he have the mistaken idea that 'since' can only refer to a time gap? He has the right to prefer 'as' in his own speaking and writing, but not the right to believe he is being more correct. He isn't.[/u]

Aunty
May 20th, 2007, 19:09
ah shut up ya boring old cunt.!

Lean in close darling. S.L.A.P.!


I just wrote a 40 page letter of complaint to Elephantspike about you.

May 21st, 2007, 02:33
... he's an American - English is their second language

Smiles
May 22nd, 2007, 01:04
" ... Why not buy a copy of my latest book, "Carousing With Gazelles" That would be a nice apology ... "
I doubt Yimsuai would be interested in that (i.e. neither the book nor the apology).
But all's not lost. How about giving some thought to sending a copy to Brad The Impala. Sounds like a read right up his alley.

Cheers ...

Brad the Impala
May 22nd, 2007, 02:43
I would love to read "Carousing with Gazalles", but I suspect that it is written about me rather than for me.

Talking of gazelles, watch the movement of Robin Van Persie.

Google him, you don't want it all on a plate surely!