the 800,000baht needed and its rotation

[lonelywombat]

I am not an expat, and if I was I feel I would fill every qualification for a retirement visa easily. I ont understand this.

A friend who is living in Pattaya on a very good income with a good balance in the bank, has raised the loan of 800,000 baht to some friends to meet their immigration requirements. They had previously had a good samaritan who lent them 800,000, which was rotated between about 6 or 7 expat bank accounts. They paid a small service charge

This good guy is no longer around and there is panic about where to get the money.

Surely the government does not look at a balance in the bank on one occasion and say OK

How could you live if you did not have the 800,000 or access to your own funds if required

Icannot believe that expats are sharing this 800,000 as they do not have the full amount themselves.

God they must all have the arse out of their pants

Not sure without more details.

I think immigration might catch these people, if they see a big deposit followed by a big deposit out, especially over a course of years. Even if they did the 3 months in rule which is now being enforced. There could be innocent reasons for such a history, like big purchases.

The people you mention might have other sources of income, use ATM cards, work illegally in Thailand, etc, don't want to keep all that money in Thailand, or don't have a wire transfer arrangement setup. Reasons as varied as the people involved.

My suggestion, learn the rules and try to play the game. If you want to stay that is.

As I understand it, the 800,000 in the bank, and or an income of 65,000 THB a month or a mix of the two, is required to show that you have adequate funds to support yourself. Many would say that this is more than adequate for Thai living many would say it is not - lifestyle choices. I have always been told that the 800,000 had to come from abroad to be satisfactory. However I read of instances where this has not been required and even of ones where the money was in a bank abroad.

The current situation seems to be that if you are applying for a 'retirement visa' for the first time you must now show the cash in the bank element has been there for 3 months prior to the application. I hear that this was introduced to stop people getting a short term loan to fulfill the requirements. On subsequent applications there is no 3 months period required.

Those, I believe, are the rules and how the guys you mention raise their funds is up to them.

It is true. 800K either/or bank account/income or a combination.
For an initial 0A from abroad, no money is needed in a THAI bank account, but for doing annual extensions, if using bank account for part of the qualifier, it does indeed need to be in a THAI bank account.

Forever is a long time :cya: I had to replace mine when I renewed my passport since the Embassy letter includes the passport number and expiration date - so, it must match that shown in the passport. Also, the local British counsel here has indicated the letter may need to be replaced after 2-3 years -- I don't know if this is correct or not as I am still early into use of my latest Embassy letter and used my previous one 3 times.

I will be coming up on my 5th renewal in a couple of months. Thai Immigration has been satisfied with the letter - however, I do have "proof" of my monthly income with me wihen I renew - just in case they might ask.

When you go to Immigration, be sure to have the original Embassy letter with you as well as the photocopy -- the lady Captain asks for it and often will rub her fingers over the Embassy seal (embossed) to verify that it is the original letter.

[Smiles]

Just to re-inforce Jingthig's and others observations regarding the 800,000 baht needed.

You do NOT need to show the entire amount of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank. You need to show any one of the following:


a minimum of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank if not declaring any other source of income.
[/*:m:3s0p4d1e]
a notorized declaration of income of at least 800,000 baht a year. (Notorized by your home countries embassy). I assume (but not 100% sure) you still have to have a Thai bank account, but as long as your income is not less than 800,000 baht annually the deposited amount could be negligible.
[/*:m:3s0p4d1e]
a combination of any amount less than 800,000 baht in a Thai bank PLUS a notorized statement of annual income ... both added together must equal at least the amount of 800,000 baht. (e.g. a notorized annual income of 500,000 baht PLUS 300,000 baht in a Thai bank account)[/*:m:3s0p4d1e]


That's how I read these instructions posted on the Thai Consulate General's website in Vancouver:



4. Other instructions for O-A Visa Applicants Once in Thailand

The alien shall report to the competent authority after 90 days in the Kingdom, and report every 90 days thereafter with the immigration officer in the alien's residence area, or report to the police station in the alien's residence area if there is no immigration control there. (In order to report to the competent authority by mail, the alien shall do as follows: Forward the Report Form (To Mo 47) together with a copy of the passport pages showing the alien's photo, personal details, and the latest arrival visa stamp and include a self addressed envelop with sufficient postage affixed. This must be forwarded 7 days before the due date. This package should be mailed to the Immigration Bureau, Sathon Tai Road,

At the end of the one-year stay, a visitor who wishes to extend his/her stay must submit a request to extend the period at the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer, or a deposit account in the Kingdom OR an income certificate, of the amount of no less than 800,000 Baht, OR an income certificate plus a deposit account indicating a total amount of no less than 800,000 Baht a year. Sathon District, Bangkok 10120. In the case of conducting any following reports, the Reply Form for the previous report shall be enclosed as well.) Copies of any previous such Reports should also be included.[/b][/color]

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/ ... &id=121#OA (http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=121#OA)


If I am interpreting this paragraph incorrectly, please jump in here.
There is so much misunderstanding about this 800,000 baht thing on this and other Boards that it might be a good chance here to clear things up once and for all. ( Until the rules change of course ... TiT :blackeye: )

Cheers ...

Correct, Smiles.
You do need some kind of Thai bank account for extensions even if qualifying on pension/income only.
You forgot about the very important and rather new MONEY IN BANK THREE MONTH BEFORE rule if using bank account.
This is now being enforced, and strictly so for new extensions.

One area of ambiguity, if you used 600K pension plus 200K bank account, does that 200K need to be in for three months before. Different takes on that; good luck finding an official rule!

[TrongpaiExpat]

............
-- I don't know if this is correct or not as I am still early into use of my latest Embassy letter and used my previous one 3 times.

I will be coming up on my 5th renewal in a couple of months. Thai Immigration has been satisfied with the letter - however, I do have "proof" of my monthly income with me wihen I renew - just in case they might ask.

When you go to Immigration, be sure to have the original Embassy letter with you as well as the photocopy -- the lady Captain asks for it and often will rub her fingers over the Embassy seal (embossed) to verify that it is the original letter.

Your lucky, last week here at Bangkok Immigration, they told me only the originals, no copies. I had to give it up and next year will have to get a new one from the Embassy.

I am assuming your going to Pattaya Immigration, they might have different rules or you were lucky.

Take a look at the Thai visa forum (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/) and you will see that different offices seem to operate under different rules.

Smiles for the extension of the O-A you need form TM7, watch this because there are other similar extension forms. You also need a 4cmX6cm photo, photo copies of passbook, photo page and visa page. Then the letter from the Embassy along with proof of a Thai bank account, a letter, even if you are qualifying with income. I took my bank passbook too and copies but they did not want to see this.

At Bangkok Immigration this is done in room 101, take a number, see how many are in front of you, leave and take a long lunch, return and go to the correct desk when your number is called. Last week for me it was a three hour wait then when I was called it took 5 min. and 1,900B.

Hua Hin might have a local immigration office, but you will need to get the letter from the Embassy, so you might be renewing here in Bangkok.

[Smiles]

" ... One area of ambiguity, if you used 600K pension plus 200K bank account, does that 200K need to be in for three months before. Different takes on that; good luck finding an official rule! ... "
Taking my life in my hands . . . I'd venture a logical guess that the cash portion (i.e. the money in a Thai bank account) would be treated in the same vein as it would be if one was using the entire amount 800,000 baht as their choice of method when applying for the extension: the 200,000 baht in your example would also have to be on deposit 3 months before receiving the extension.

A reasonable guess?

Probably the best bet would be to ~ 5 months or so before applying for one's extension ~ visit the local Immigration Office (Hua Hin has one I'm told), and simply ask them. That's what I intend to do anyway.

Cheers ...

This is an old topic, but I have come to the conclusion that a 30K budget per month will not buy massive happiness in Pattaya even if you own your housing outright. You can be fine with that and survive, but its not enough to enjoy very many expensive restaurants, expensive nightlife, expensive trips, etc. etc, not to mention a car. You have been warned. I speak from real experience. I have been living on that level for about a year kind of as an experiment. I was just thinking about this today. I need to spend more money! Life is too short to just survive.

These rules are odd. So you have to show proof that 3 months BEFORE you renew, you had 800,000 baht in the bank. Do you also have to show that you STILL have 800,000 at the time of renewal? Otherwise, you could just transfer it back out if you wanted.
I will not have a problem depositing the 800,000 when I retire, but since the US IRS expects you to report any foreign bank accounts with a total over $10,000, I would rather keep any amount of cash overseas at less than that at any one time. What the IRS does with this information, I have no idea. I'm not even sure how they would find out.. as long as you keep wire transfers to thailand at less than $10,000 per transfer (U.S. Banks are required to notify the IRS if you wire MORE than $10,000 at a time.

And I agree, 30,000 baht a month is not enough unless you never leave your house. I'm planning on about 80,000 a month.. including rent. The BF has a good job, so other than providing free rent for him (he plans on us living together) and buying food, I expect him to pay for all his other needs with his own salary.

You misunderstand. You do the renewal usually 30 days or so before the expiration of your permission to stay.

So your 800K must be there 90 days before the renewal appointment. You don't go to immigration 90 days before your renewal visit; you just show your bank book proving the money was there 90 days before; it also must be there on the day of the appointment.

Important detail: if you are living on your Thai bank account and using the 800K to qualify (and immigration likes to see that spending) in reality you need MUCH MORE than 800K 90 days before your immigration visit, because you will be spending it down! So more like a million baht for most people. Technically, you would probably still be OK if you just topped off to 800K and then got money other ways like from an ATM card from your home country. However, in that case, I would be prepared to show proof of it, not seeing spending would look suspicious.

Bizarre rules! Yes. Best not to dwell on that. Just learn em if you want to stay.

BTW, US Homeland Security knows about ALL SWIFT transfers. All. Do they talk to the IRS? Who knows.

The current situation seems to be that if you are applying for a 'retirement visa' for the first time you must now show the cash in the bank element has been there for 3 months prior to the application. I hear that this was introduced to stop people getting a short term loan to fulfill the requirements. On subsequent applications there is no 3 months period required.

I have been trying to find an answer to the 3 month req. for renewals. Do you really believe that for renewals the 3 month rule does not apply? the not so boogyman

A friend of mine checked with Pattaya Immigration Office a couple of months ago as he uses the 800k in the bank to qualify rather than income. The Immigration Officer at the "retirement" visa desk told him the 800K only needs to be in the bank for 90 days WHEN YOU APPLY FOR THE FIRST TIME - for RENEWALS they DO NOT require the funds to have been there for 90 days. This tends to make sense as one would expect to drawdown the 800k for living expenses during the year and "top it up" prior to renewal.

For TrongpaiExpat - yes, we are lucky here in Pattaya regarding the Embassy letter. I and several of my "retired" friends have renewed our visa extensions using a photocopy of the Embassy letter. As I mentioned, they do want to see the original, but give the orginal back to you to "use again next time." We are also fortunate that the "wait" is not very long -- I and most of my friends usually wait from 10 to 30 minutes to give the documents to the Immigration Officer at the "retirement" desk - he takes about 5 minutes to review them and, if all in order, hands them to the lady Captain behind him -- on my last renewal, I stepped from his desk to her desk immediately to complete the application process. She then gave me a small card with a "number" on it and told me to come back that afternoon to pick up the passport. When I returned, I went to her desk - handed her the number card and she handed me my passport with the new extension stamp affixed.

I would not listen to the previous post regarding 3 months before policy. Its DANGEROUS advice.

Just one statement from one officer means nothing. If you had a problem, saying one officer told you that would mean nothing. Even worse, I heard it on a boy bar message board, officer!

The general consensus on thaivisa from senior admins there is that you do indeed need to put the money in there 3 months before the renewal meeting EVERY TIME. Not just the first time. They are strictly enforcing the first time NOW. They are indeed cutting slack on people doing subsequent renewals, and telling them to follow the rule NEXT YEAR. So yes your first time doing a renewal, you are probably OK, but after that, they will correctly be able to say YOU SHOULD KNOW BY NOW! Have fun arguing with officers and pointing the blame on one of their colleagues, have you ever heard of not attacking Thai face especially of an authority figure?

Now, I do think this rule is extreme. But don't follow it at your own risk. If it is true that they aren't really enforcing it over the years, then I would consider changing your behavior based on numerous reports. Right now, the consensus is FOLLOW THE RULE.

Well Jingthing, you can not listen if you want - as they say - "up to you."

So far, this has been a consistent report from more than one source renewing their visa using the 800k in the bank to qualify. My friend did renew and was not required to have the money in the bank for 90 days. As to the rules - they are what they are today and they will be whatever Immigration says they are are tomorrow. Yes, that could change -- However, IMO the people who post on Thaivisa.com have about as much veracity as those that post on any mesage boards - Gay or otherwise. I am not aware that the posters on Thaivisa.com have some "special" insight simply because they post on that board.

However, as a precaution, I have suggested to friends that use the 800k deposit, that they check with Immigration more than 90 days prior - just to make sure the rules have not changed. The friend that I mentioned that checked a couple months ago will be going in next month - he checked more than 90 days out, just to make sure. Yes, I know, this is Thailand and he could get a different story when he goes to renew - but, I doubt it - the "one" Pattaya Immigration Officer that made the statement has been the same one I and others here in Pattaya have dealt with for several years - he does seem to know what is going on - at least at Pattaya Immigration.

Well Jingthing, you can not listen if you want - as they say - "up to you."

So far, this has been a consistent report from more than one source renewing their visa using the 800k in the bank to qualify. My friend did renew and was not required to have the money in the bank for 90 days. As to the rules - they are what they are today and they will be whatever Immigration says they are are tomorrow. Yes, that could change -- However, IMO the people who post on Thaivisa.com have about as much veracity as those that post on any mesage boards - Gay or otherwise. I am not aware that the posters on Thaivisa.com have some "special" insight simply because they post on that board.

However, as a precaution, I have suggested to friends that use the 800k deposit, that they check with Immigration more than 90 days prior - just to make sure the rules have not changed. The friend that I mentioned that checked a couple months ago will be going in next month - he checked more than 90 days out, just to make sure. Yes, I know, this is Thailand and he could get a different story when he goes to renew - but, I doubt it - the "one" Pattaya Immigration Officer that made the statement has been the same one I and others here in Pattaya have dealt with for several years - he does seem to know what is going on - at least at Pattaya Immigration.
Sorry, but I do believe you are incorrect.
There have been multiple reports of people being granted extension renewals recently without following the 3 month rule. All the reports OTHER THAN YOURS have included the proviso that they were told BETTER FOLLOW THE RULE NEXT TIME. Lopburi is a senior thaivisa admin who has claimed special knowledge of immigration issues. Don't listen to me. Listen to him.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php ... &p=1240495 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=115032&view=findpost&p=1240495)

I would like to make a constructive suggestion. Anyone doing a renewal extension with the 800K, I suggest following the rule, and ASKING if they really need to have the money in the back 3 months in the bank NEXT YEAR. If lots of people are hearing the same thing from many different officers, now that would be good evidence. If you do this, of course, mention which immigration office. As we all know, the rules aren't enforced the same at every office.

This is getting surreal. I never had to provide copies of all my bank book pages before - just a recent letter from the bank stating the balance and that some money has come from abroad. The office want sight of the bankbook.

It is very difficult to know what is Thai Law, what is the local interpretation of the law, what is the individual officers interpretation, which laws are always or almost always ignored, which Thai Consulates will issue which visas. The whole thing is in flux and rules seem to change at whim without any effort to let visitors know. e.g. the extension to a 30 days permission was 10 days but on 31st January they changed it to 7 days but the fee remains a whopping 1900 baht.

I do pray that they let things settle down and then clarify things. Thailand will be suffering from a drop in tourism this year for many damaging reasons and Immigration seem to be making things ever more difficult.