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May 17th, 2007, 00:15
London's mayor gives Bangkok advice on easing its traffic congestion
The Nation.

"Get cars off the streets" is the strongest piece of advice leaders of some of the world's greenest capitals can give to their counterparts from cities plagued by pollution and congestion.

In no uncertain terms, they argue it is the most effective way to improve the quality of life and reduce carbon emissions.

London Mayor Ken Livingstone's "congestion pricing" has become a model success story that drew attention, whether awe or scepticism, from many mayors and city managers attending the second day of the "Large Cities Climate Summit" yesterday in New York.

Addressing the panel discussing "Beating the Congestion and Surviving Your Next Election" at the four-day summit of some 40 of the world's largest cities, Livingstone acknowledged the fears of many elected mayors that their political future could be jeopardised by drastic measures to tax drivers for taking their cars to trade and business centres.

"When I introduced the measure four years ago, my poll rating was bad, the media were hostile and gave disastrous predictions; it was all doom and gloom, no one would drive, retail shops and businesses in the controlled area would have to shut down," he recalled.

"Tony Blair wanted to appear as if he had nothing do with it. The government gave us money to expand the bus system but hoped nobody knew about it."

But he then listed how the measure improved flows of traffic in the city: the number of cars in the centre of London has been reduced by 38 per cent, a rate Livingstone said was twice more than he anticipated. Commercial vehicles increased, the number of cyclists increased 80 per cent, while bus riders increased from four to six million a day.

As a result, carbon emissions from the transport sector reduced 25 per cent.

Livingstone noted that his political courage to introduce the measure came from being pressured by London's business community. Congestion in the city cost ฃ2 billion (Bt140 billion) in business losses a year. London had lost its competitiveness and businesses threatened to relocate elsewhere, he said.

The mayor of London said he expanded the controlled areas by doubling them early this year and increased charges from ฃ5 to ฃ8 with similar hostility from the media, but opinion polls stated that his political approval went up.

"Politicians like to underestimate the intelligence of the general public - trust your people that they recognise the problem. In four years my poll has gone up 14 per cent and they don't want to vote for my rival because they fear my rival would remove congestion pricing."

Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin told Livingstone he was interested in his success story but had little clue how a gridlocked city like Thailand's capital with 5.5 millions cars on the street every day could begin the measure without a good public transit system.

"We only have 50km combined of Skytrain and subway. The buses are run by the central government. We want to introduce the charge but don't have a proper mass transit system. Do we need to have the system in place first or could we start now in the inner city?"

Livingstone's advice is to improve the bus system because subways take a long time to construct. He said in the case of London, the number of buses increased from 6,000 to 8,000 along with the introduction of new routes, and the private sector played a key role in helping with finance.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg praised Livingstone's scheme. If he has his way, drivers who want to enter inner Manhattan will have to pay US$8 (Bt267).

The Mayor of Copenhagen, Klaus Bondam, said he had wanted to introduce congestion charging for some time but the right-wing central government opposed the idea by not issuing legislation. "Copenhagen is much smaller than Bangkok with only 500,000 residents, but noise and air pollution from the traffic bothers our residents, so we want to discourage cars from getting into the city. We will continue to fight for what is right," he said.

Nantiya Tangwisutijit - The Nation - New York City

May 17th, 2007, 01:01
Model success story my arse. He may be a favourite with the yoghurt knitters but he is despised by many.
The "congestion charge" is surely only a "success" if it leads to traffic flowing thru the city in a relatively free manner. Anyone expecting to see this in London requires medical attention. I think the current average speed in London is 4 miles in an hour. Furthermore remember that Bangkok is in Thailand. Can you seriously see a congestion charge working in Thailand?
The London Mayor - Ken Livinstone is one of life's true assholes. The guy has never owned a car in his life, he never learned to drive. But then why bother when you are a politician and get chauffeur driven wherever you go and of course the "congestion charge" doesn't apply to him........or his chauffeur.

Now see what you've done, my blood pressure just went up. Gotta go get a chill pill now.

May 17th, 2007, 03:04
steve is right - the traffic levels went down at first but now steadily creeping back up again. Pure money making excercise to fund his other grandiose schemes.

May 17th, 2007, 05:00
One great thing that happened in London was massive improvement in the bus services with new buses running every 6 minutes 24 hours a day and originally a flat fare for the whole city. There are lots of bus lanes and info at the bus stops on how long before your next bus arrives.

I congratulate Ken Livingstone - batchelor - on the originality and the courage to go ahead with this scheme in the heart of one of the world's biggest cities. It worked both the technology and eventually public acceptance.

Cities need to have traffic flow and, people one to a car very often, driving in to work parking and then driving home is a luxury that they must forgo or pay for.

I don't see it working in Bangkok but maybe Pattaya?

May 17th, 2007, 05:15
yep like i said - admired by yoghurt knitters.

May 17th, 2007, 05:19
London's mayor gives Bangkok advice on easing its traffic congestion
The Nation.

This is nothing more than one of those those stuck by it are screwed (but the rich soon charge all their downtown commuting woes to their companies) and the poor slobs paying the extra, versus those that never go downtown so don't have to pay the extra and don't care. It's one reason why Singapore and London both suck as much as Bangkok. Those stuck are always stuck. There is no improvement. Then the city masters seem to claim they've done the best when in reality they've done nothing but unfairly burdenened those stuck. Not a soulution to any problem at all I say, just a coward's way out.

Tell me when Bangkok's traffic is handling twice the flow at half the load.

Brad the Impala
May 17th, 2007, 11:52
As someone who lives within the congestion charge zone, when in London, I can only say that the scheme has been a success. It discourages private cars from being brought into Central London, the flow of traffic is therefore better than it would have been, the atmosphere is better than it would have been, and it has provided further funding for public transport(buses) which in turn gives an incentive for further people to forsake their cars.

Ken Livingstone is one of the most radical and effective politicians, in the UK, over the last twenty years. In his capacaity as leader of the GLC, (Greater London Council) he was the most pro active politician in the UK in pushing for gay rights, for which he was pilloried by the right wing tabloid press. He also initiated dialogue with the IRA, at a time when other politicians wouldn't be seen in the same county as the IRA. Politicians at the time were saying that they would win the war against the IRA, Livingstone made the point that only dialogue would win the war, he was right, but pilloried again.

The fact that he was subsequently elected Mayor of London, shows that sufficient voters are able to see through the tabloid hate campaigns against him.

May 17th, 2007, 19:19
Furthermore remember that Bangkok is in Thailand. Can you seriously see a congestion charge working in Thailand?It works in Singapore so it's not a racial characteristic. I look forward to it being introduced in Bangkok. The Thai penchant for all things counterfeit will be producing congestion charge devices mounted in cars that appear to be the genuine thing but record no charge for the vehicle

May 17th, 2007, 20:08
As someone who lives within the congestion charge zone, when in London, I can only say that the scheme has been a success. It discourages private cars from being brought into Central London, the flow of traffic is therefore better than it would have been, the atmosphere is better than it would have been, and it has provided further funding for public transport(buses) which in turn gives an incentive for further people to forsake their cars.

Ken Livingstone is one of the most radical and effective politicians, in the UK, over the last twenty years. In his capacaity as leader of the GLC, (Greater London Council) he was the most pro active politician in the UK in pushing for gay rights, for which he was pilloried by the right wing tabloid press. He also initiated dialogue with the IRA, at a time when other politicians wouldn't be seen in the same county as the IRA. Politicians at the time were saying that they would win the war against the IRA, Livingstone made the point that only dialogue would win the war, he was right, but pilloried again.

The fact that he was subsequently elected Mayor of London, shows that sufficient voters are able to see through the tabloid hate campaigns against him.

As someone with a sister in the City of London whom I have visited on a few occasions since this scheme was introduced, I also believe it to have been very successful.

I also agree with you Brad regarding all you have said about Ken Livingstone. The "New" Labour Party did everything they could to break ties with him and went to extreme lengths to prevent him being elected as the Mayor of London. Thankfully, there were more than enough people that saw through the hype and biased journalism that was conducted against him by the tabloids, on orders handed down from Blair's editor cronies, to prevent him being installed as the Mayor. He has done this with a healthy majority now on two occasions.

With what recently took place in Ireland with Paisley and McCarthy at long last coming together, it proved what he said a long while ago about that situation to be right also. That being that dialogue was the only way that situation was ever going to be resolved.

People can say whatever they like about Ken, but they can't deny, that what he says he will do and unlike the vast majority of politicians, he actually goes ahead and does it. I am sure that Dick will be looking down on him favourably and with pride. http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/GeorgeThai/biglaugh.gif


G.

May 17th, 2007, 21:03
Dick? Dick who - Turpin?

May 17th, 2007, 23:36
Dick? Dick who - Turpin?

No, Not Turpin Steve, Whittington.

G.

May 18th, 2007, 02:17
You can ignore the FACT that it was shown that much of the congestion was deliberately caused to prove that a charge was needed but I won't. Traffic lights were added over the last few years while others were reset to give Nazi boy Kenny the ammunition he needed to prove his case. How naive do you have to be to believe one single solitary word spoken by any politician?

Can't wait for the thread extolling the virtues of speed cameras - get to it guys. These are there for the express purpose of saving lives and making the roads super duper safe of course.
And if you want to know how they prove their case for that then you only need ask.

Brad the Impala
May 18th, 2007, 02:27
You can ignore the FACT that it was shown that much of the congestion was deliberately caused to prove that a charge was needed but I won't. Traffic lights were added over the last few years while others were reset to give Nazi boy Kenny the ammunition he needed to prove his case. How naive do you have to be to believe one single solitary word spoken by any politician?



Nazi Boy!!! :cyclopsani: Not even The Sun ever claimed that! To the tabloids he was, and remains, a left wing extremist.

As to The Fact, and "it was shown", where was the fact proved and where was it shown?

May 18th, 2007, 03:02
If I remember vaguely correctly Livingstone told a jewish reporter something along the lines of "shame you escaped the gas chambers". The row was highly publicised at the time. The facts on the congestion was shown by a motoring organisation a couple of years back. I'm happy to believe them over some poxy politician at any time of any day in any country on any planet.

Brad the Impala
May 18th, 2007, 03:54
Actually, it was quite the reverse, he told a reporter, who was hassling him, that he was acting like a guard in a concentration camp.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid ... =175462005 (http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=435&id=175462005)

It just shows how misleading memories can be, when you are detemined to think the worst of people.

May 18th, 2007, 06:42
It just shows how misleading memories can be, when you are detemined to think the worst of people.Indeed. Does this qualify Steve for my {Ignore} list? He seems somewhat rabid in his opinions. Probation, perhaps

May 18th, 2007, 13:38
Ok accept I got that wrong. Still an inappropriate remark.
Seems I also have to accept that some folk are happy to believe politicians. I'm happy to continue to smile when my newspaper has the headline "MP dies". Frankly doesn't bother me what gender or party or how they meet their fate, just simply always cheers me up.