Shan Burmese guys filling niche in Chiang Mai barboy scene..

[RonanTheBarbarian]

...and find the money is hard earned due to 95% of them being straight, according to farang woman journalist.

The current issue of "The Irrawaddy News" has the story.

See:
http://www.irrawaddy.org/aviewer.asp?a=7019&z=104

Male Order Business - Why young Shan migrants enter ThailandтАЩs sex scene

The main thrust:

According to the author, Cindy Tilney, "about 95 percent of male sex workers are heterosexual men whose motivation is purely economic"

Personally I would guess the proportion who are gay is higher than that, but maybe not.

And she also claims:"An increasingly large number of Chiang MaiтАЩs male sex workers come to Thailand from BurmaтАЩs Shan State....a 2003 study found that 49 percent of the 198 male sex workers surveyed in 14 establishments were of non-Thai ethnicity and, of these, 64 percent were Shan."

The prices she were given seem a little inflated. She claims that "While the average daily wage for migrant labor is between 80 and 180 baht ($2.25-5.07), a single night of sex work can bring in up to 10,000 baht ($280)."

One barboy told her that he could earn up to 10,000 baht from a single client. тАЬMost Thai customers will only pay 1,000 or 2,000 baht ($28-56), but farangs [Westerners] will often pay more,тАЭ says Ong. тАЬI sometimes ask farangs who look like they can afford it for 5,000 or 10,000 baht ($140-280) and they pay it.тАЭ

Sounds like somebody was boasting to me!

Despite being a farang herself, she never interviewed any of the clients of the bars, which is a pity, as it would have broadend the perspective of the piece.

[fedssocr]

that does seem a little far-fetched. But when I was visiting Circle bar it was clear that the most performers were from the hill tribes...and most of them were hung like horses too.

[Bob]

This article was noted on another board and, after reading it, I wondered if the author had ever been to the night market bars that she claimed she was writing about.
She used a photo in the article from some gogo bar (it wasn't from any of the Chiangmai night market bars), she insinuated that a fair percentage of the night market bar workers were non-Thai (I pointed out that I knew all the workers in two of those night market bars and knew, for a fact, that all of them were Thai), I also agree that her percentages of gay/straight are wrong.
She also mentions in the article about all the neon lights there (which aren't there). And she also took pains to mention all the boys groping and massaging the falang patrons (which surely has happened although I its been years since I've seen it).
In short, I personally believe most of the article is pure bullshit.

This article was noted on another boardDon't you have anything better to do with your time, Bob?

Don't you have anything better to do with your time, Bob?

this comes from someone with over 2600 postings and spent most of his days on this forum.... :geek:

Guys,

If you go with these people, you can also end up with large fines from the Police.

AND it does and has happened to people in Pattaya.

If they have no Thai ID or current visa, you get done for harbouring an Alien! No sarcasm on the Alien bit please!

I know of a couple of guys who were hanging out with a couple of Indian boys, who had been selling themselves at Jomtien.

The Police followed them back and banged on the rooms wth the Foreigners inside with the boys.

It cost the Foreigners a lot of money, to get themselves and the boys out of the problem...........Buyer beware!


I have been up in Chiang Mai, visited these types of bars with hilltribes working or trying to sell themselves [ actually even visited some of the villages under Royal Patronage, with Thai people working for the Government on projects to get these people self sufficient with assistance with crops etc ] I really find it difficult to accept, the journalist's silly figures of 10,000 baht per night.



And guys, the Police are not interested in the old ' I didn't know routine !!!!!!' [/b]

If there is a problem with press censorship in Thailand, in Myanmar it is impossible to publish anything without prior approval. Therefore you need between the lines if you want detect just a glimpse of information. If sex sells, gay sex sells best. ..

The “Irrawaddy” is a product if some Ex-Burmese. If you take some time and stroll around Mae Hong Song you can after a few moments easily workout the different ethnic groups since they usually don't mix.

Myanmar people are usually easy to spot due to there typical features.

There are a very few hill tribe sex workers around since they are not safe be any means. They are totally unprotected and always in danger of hefty exploitation. In Thailand hill tribes belong to the bottom of hierarchy and could only deal with foreigners.

Adam Apple used to be famous for the mostly Karen boys. Some time ago Coffee Boy used to have hill tribes boys (Akha) too; it didn’t work. But all hill tribe staff did carry Thai papers.

Migrant workers are not allowed to stay outside there quarters after 20 h.

Current rate for foreigners buying sex in CM or other tourist areas is still around 500 TBT for short time and about 1000 TBT for long time, or less if long time is exceeding more than two days. Thai pay usually not more then half.

Since there has never been a shortage of willing and able sex workers, the underlining competition is pretty strong. This is keeping the prices down - and too much competition away.

ttom said 500 baht short time, jaafarabutarab said 1000 baht short time from 1st tier bars.
Which is correct? one of them must be incorrect.

Don't you have anything better to do with your time, Bob?

this comes from someone with over 2600 postings and spent most of his days on this forum.... :geek:

and what would that number be if we added in posts from all of his other IDs?

In short, I personally believe most of the article is pure bullshit.

My bet is she seconds as the Lesbio-religious editor on Fridaes.

Don't you have anything better to do with your time, Bob?this comes from someone with over 2600 postings and spent most of his days on this forum.... :geek:and what would that number be if we added in posts from all of his other IDs?cottman, for example.

[haikudude]

ttom said 500 baht short time, jaafarabutarab said 1000 baht short time from 1st tier bars.
Which is correct? one of them must be incorrect.

It depends on what bar the boy works. Also depends perhaps if he is Thai or from the hill-tribes. Offed a Thai boy once from Circle. After 1 hour he wanted 1300 bhat. And I know a dude from the night bazaar bars who is Thai-Yai. He works legally with a work permit in a Chiang Mai hotel as a maid. He is more that happy with a few drinks and 500 baht for an hour of fun.

Shan boys often are able to obtain Thai IDs. My EX was Shan who's family immigrated to thailand when he was 1 year old. His mother did not report his birth until they were in Thailand, so he received Thai Citizenship. He has a friend that took on the name (identity) of a dead thai citizen to get his Thai ID. They both identify themselves as Thai, but their pale skin and facial features give them away. They are both very attractive (and both VERY successful free lance moneyboys). They also have the BIG C**Ks mentioned earlier LOL

cottman, for example.Ah, I thought you might be talking about Daizy = Hedda

and what would that number be if we added in posts from all of his other IDs?cottman, for example.

Someone else has noticed how often "Ottoman" seems to pop up and try and rescue the Colonel's arguments?

[billyhouston]

If you removed all the (illegal) Shan workers from Northern Thailand, both the restaurant and construction businesses would collapse. Ever wonder why in some restaurants in Chiang Mai you are given a slip of paper and a pencil to give your order? Most of thoses guys speak very poor Thai and cannot write the language.

My Way has a number of Shan but, there again, forged Thai IDs are not difficult to come by. In fact, one of the Shan guys in My Way will supply them if you need one. ;)

If you removed all the (illegal) Shan workers from Northern Thailand, both the restaurant and construction businesses would collapse. Ever wonder why in some restaurants in Chiang Mai you are given a slip of paper and a pencil to give your order? Most of thoses guys speak very poor Thai and cannot write the language.

My Way has a number of Shan but, there again, forged Thai IDs are not difficult to come by. In fact, one of the Shan guys in My Way will supply them if you need one. ;)


Please be aware about the differences regarding BURMESE hill tribes and Thai hill tribes!

The “press” report mentioned above meets the BURMESE – and it’s therefore misleading if not wrong.

Illegal employment is very high risk for anyone involved. No chance to blame it on ID-cards.

A Thai can employ Burmese staff legally if he pays some extra fees, proper wages and provide accommodation and food. Foreign staff will require s special visa which includes a work permit. They like to employ them since they don’t go home for holidays. And if any differences occur, the visa gets revoked immediately without any further question.

Usually Thai command of English language is lousy compared to original Burmese

There are thousands of Burmese sheltered in crowded and cramped refugee camps along the border. They usually carry a special passport from UN. Foreigners need a special permit to visit those camps.

Ah, I thought you might be talking about Daizy = Hedda

Me? The evil witch of Sawasdee? Oh my! Of course, "Hedda" was a bit b4 my time. I'll have to do a little research this coming week when I have some time on a fast internet connection in Zurich and see what I'm living up to. For now I guess I should be completely flattered. :-)

Someone else has noticed how often "Ottoman" seems to pop up and try and rescue the Colonel's arguments?Without a doubt, they are the same.

There was a posting here with ambiguous wording, so I only post a clarification: the Shan (Tai-Yai) have never been a hill-tribe. They are plains-dwellers and rice farmers, just like the Thai.

Of course, it doesn't help much if the average tourist goes to a khantoke dinner in Chiang Mai, with a special "hill-tribe" ending -- and finds the Akha, the Karen, and the Shan presented as "hill-tribes" by the Thai themselves!


A rough briefing about Shan

Most Shan people are from the hill side matching Myanmar, China and Laos. There are not too many in Thailand. The Shan state of Myanmar holds about one third of the population.

There remote living area under harsh conditions didn’t allow them much farming. But Shan where traditionally experts in growing moon plants and making opium.

This is why the Golden Triangle becomes famous for drugs. US secret services injected large amount of cast onto the region in order to promote the production opium. This opium should be used infiltrate and weaken the population of Northern Viet Nam, especially Ho Chi Min’s army. Managed where those deals assisted by CIA, NSA and others by a view Vietnamese living in Thailand but mainly from some Thai linked with Shan clans. The base of all where Udon Thani where the US used to operate a large air force base (Udorn).

Suddenly the Northern Vietnamese reduced widely the use of drugs but while the drugs are readily available in large quantities and cheap too, the GI’s and others in South Viet Nam became customers instead.

The foundations of Bangkok CBS, Pattaya’s tourism and nightlife and Phuket’s turing into a tourist destination where paid with profits from drug dealings. The Myanmar regime, especially Shan Generals made large profits and still are in business. Drugs from Myanmar went around the globe.

Many years later the detection of moon plantations became easier due to technical progress. Politically the governments where forced, sweetened with large amount of money, to take action against the still increasing drug productions. The Shan where forced be Army out of there hills and to settle in lower lands which was against there culture, religion and traditions.
Most didn’t have a clue about farming in lower lands, they didn’t own farms and they where forces to loose many of there traditions.

But many never lost there drug making skills. They don’t use the natural product (moon) anymore but make synthetically drugs. There are still the same people behind this business using well established links. They still supply all markets around the world.

Due to some re-investment in local infrastructure, the Shan state is the better developed part of Myanmar. This is not just paid from drug business but also from large gambling casinos, located closely to Thai or Chinese borders.

Take some time and try do get to the Shan refugee camps along the Thai border to Myanmar. There is no need to go as fare as beautiful Mae Hong Song, Kanchanaburi province and northern along the river do have also some camps. See by yourself another forgotten human disaster.

Encyclopedia: Shan State

Shan State (sh├дn) [key], state (1983 pop. 3,718,706), c.60,000 sq mi (155,400 sq km), E central Myanmar. Taunggyi, the capital, and Lashio are its principal cities. It borders on China in the north, Laos in the east, and Thailand in the south. Most of the Shan State is a hilly plateau; there are higher mountains in the north and south. The gorge of the Thanlwin (Salween) River cuts across the state. Silver, lead, and zinc are mined, notably at the Bawdwin mine, and there are smelters at Namtu. Teak is cut, and rice and other crops are grown. Running through Shan is part of the Golden Triangle, an area in which much of the world's opium and heroin are illegally produced. Drug trafficking is controlled by local warlords, some of whom have private armies amounting to thousands of soldiers.

The valleys and tableland are inhabited by the Shans, who in language and customs resemble the Thais and the Laos. They are largely Buddhists and are mainly engaged in agriculture. Among the Shans live Burmans, Chinese, and Karens. The hills are inhabited by various peoples, notably the Wa, formerly head-hunters, who are numerous in the north and along the Chinese border.

The Shans dominated most of Myanmar from the 13th to the 16th cent. In the 19th cent., long after their power declined, they were distributed among more than 30 petty states; most of them paid tribute to the Burman king. Under British rule, the Shan States were ruled by their hereditary chiefs (sawbwas) as feudatories of the British crown. In 1922 most of these small states were joined in the Federated Shan States, under a commissioner who also administered the Wa states. This arrangement survived the constitutional changes of 1923 and 1937.

A single Shan state, including the former Wa states, was established by the 1947 Burmese constitution. In 1959 the sawbwas relinquished much of their power to the Burmese government. Shan State's autonomy was further eroded by increased federalization of the Burmese government in the 1970s. Generally, the Shans remain committed to the preservation of their distinct ethnic heritage; Shan groups fought for an independent state after Burmese independence. Shan rebels signed a cease-fire with the government in 1995, but revoked it 10 years later when Shan leaders were arrested and charged with treason.

The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, 6th ed. Copyright ┬й 2007, Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.


Further links:
I was there in 2004: www.unescobkk.org/index.php?id=1877 (http://www.unescobkk.org/index.php?id=1877)
I went to Kengtung in 2002: www.mekongexpress.com/thailand/articles/kengtung.htm (http://www.mekongexpress.com/thailand/articles/kengtung.htm)
In brief: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shan_State

[billyhouston]

Please be aware about the differences regarding BURMESE hill tribes and Thai hill tribes!



When I refer to Shan I am referring to people who were born in Shan State, Myanmar. It's difficult to know how many (illegal) Shan there are in Northern Thailand but a figure of around one million is generally accepted. The rice farmers in Southern Shan suffer greatly at the hands of the Burmese army and it is thought that 12000 out of a population of 25000 have fled Mong Nai.
There are entire 'apartment' blocks in Chiang Mai full of Shan who have papers. Those without papers are ruthlessly exploited by Thai employers and especially by Thai Police. On Shan festival days police know they will go to Wat Pa Pao and Wat Ku Tao and lie in wait to extort money from them. Makes my blood boil.

I have no idea what the international community is going to do about this drug-infested kleptocracy. They seem to be obsessively focused on Palestine, as if the rest of the world was Just Doing Fine.

Dont start dear smiles off! According to him us farangs shouldnt`t meddle!

My tailor, a Thai gentleman, has told me that many estimates place the number of Shan in Thailand at two million.

I haven't gone out and counted them, and you haven't either. But one subject which has not been raised in this thread is the horrifying nature of the Burmese government, which regularly traps and enslaves young men to work on corvees (unpaid and unfed) or to serve in the Burmese Army (forever).

This government is among the most vicious in the world. Most of the guys we meet (in bars or wherever) have been through hell. I suspect that most of the guys at My Way love their work because their life is no longer at risk.

And, my own star at My Way -- a few years ago, his younger brother escaped from Burma and came to Thailand. He was around fifteen at the time. He didn't speak a word of Thai.

But could you argue with him? He quickly got construction work -- even road work -- at 150 baht per day. That may strike us as criminal, or unfair -- but in "socialist" Burma he would have been receiving NOTHING.

I have no idea what the international community is going to do about this drug-infested kleptocracy. They seem to be obsessively focused on Palestine, as if the rest of the world was Just Doing Fine.


I can follow you.

Be sure, the number of Shan in Thailand is not 1 000 000, including the refugees.

The amount of forced labour in Myanmar (which is actually the Shan-related original name of this beautiful country, Burmah was invented during British occupancy) is incredible. People are often held like prisoners by there government.

There are still many companies operating sweat shops, mines and other businesses in Myanmar.

But the situation of Shan in Thailand is not a good one. Even if some are carrying a Thai ID-card, there are less than second class citizens; there rights are not equal to Thai (i.e. no right of passport, less welfare, different education, less health support and there like). Officials and police can identify them by there ID card code.

It took some time for to work all this out. Having had an exiting but good time with an handsome young mane who was a originally a Cambodian Khmer, he was well educated (on his own expenses) but did face similar troubles.

Anyway, I am glad to see that’s not just me being curious and willing to look behind a curtain. Thank you for your interests into these aspects of Thai and Myanmar live.

This article might interest you as well: http://www.shanland.org/resources/books ... in_tha.htm (http://www.shanland.org/resources/bookspub/humanrights/dispossessed/situation_of_the_refugees_in_tha.htm)