View Full Version : US-Thail clash over IP and drugs rights Abbot give way!
"TRADE PRIVILEGES - US set to strike back over rights - The Nation
Tariff downgrade over violations will hit Thai exporters
Many Thai exports to the United States are expected to lose tariff privileges today, when Washington places the Kingdom on its intellectual-property Priority Watch List.
An announcement of the downgrade was expected early this morning Thailand time and comes in the wake of inadequate protection of intellectual-property rights.
The downgrade comes with stiff trade retaliations.
The US Embassy in Bangkok is scheduled to hold a news conference later today.
However, local officials expect Thailand to be downgraded to priority-watch status, because of conflicts between the Public Health Ministry and US drug companies following the Kingdom's decision to invoke World Trade Organisation rules allowing it override patent protection on selected drugs.
In addition, worsening copyright violation of audio-visual products further hamper Thailand's chance of being spared retaliatory action, says international-trade experts.
Commerce Minister Krirk-krai Jirapaet believes Thailand will be downgraded, because influential companies are pressuring the US government. These companies accuse Thailand of being slow in stamping out intellectual-property violations.
Many US companies and trade groups - including Levi Strauss, Philip Morris, the Cable Broad-
casting Satellite Association of Asia and the American Apparel and Footwear Association - are urging Washington to punish Thailand for growing product counterfeiting. Of most concern are brand-name apparel and accessories and audiovisual products.
The Washington-based US-Asean Business Council yesterday expressed concern that the downgrade would hit US investors and their trading partners.
Krirk-krai said council president Matthew Daley was afraid Thailand would be downgraded as a result of the compulsory licensing of drugs.
Daley and other US businessmen in Thailand - particularly new entrants - are anxiously awaiting final wording of amendments to the Foreign Business Act....."
Full article: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05 ... 033108.php (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/01/headlines/headlines_30033108.php)
Excellent. And well-deserved.
The only thing I hope to come out of this is for the dollar to come back up to = 40 baht
The only thing I hope to come out of this is for the dollar to come back up to = 40 baht
I'm setting my sights higher, but yeah, I'd "settle for" B40 = US$1.
The junta and Thai government never miss an opportunity to blame Thaksin for Thailand's current woes, such as this unfortunate event. Strangely perhaps, there may be something to it ...
http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/
US put Thailand on priority watch list - The Nation
Thailand has joined China, India and nine other countries that top the US list of worst offenders of international copyright rules, the US government said. The other countries are Russia, Egypt, Argentina, Chile, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, Ukraine and Venezuela.
The annual "Special 301 report," issued by the US Trade Representative's office Monday, placed the countries on a special "priority watch list" that will be monitored to "encourage and maintain" effective intellectual property rights protections. Another 31 countries were put on lower levels of monitoring.
Only Thailand is new to the priority watch list this year, reflecting a concern that the past year has been characterised by an overall deterioration in the protection and enforcement of copyright laws. It pointed out that Thai officials have worked "amid challenging circumstances" to enforce the law. But the efforts "appear not to have had a measurable effect on piracy and counterfeiting rates". US trade officials singled out Thailand's lack of control over optical disc media (DVDs).
Piracy of trademarked products like footwear, books, business software, cable and signals were also cited.
According to the report, Thailand had insufficient penalties for violations, and there were indications of a further "weakening of respect" for patents such as pharmaceutical products.
The report said in China, an estimated 85 to 93 per cent of all copyrighted material sold is thought to be pirated. Russian piracy sales have robbed US copyright holders of an estimated US$2.1 billion last year.
Chile and Venezuela remain on the top priority list because of failure to make progress in enforcement and cooperation, and increasing levels of piracy, the report said.
Egypt has improved its systems, especially in modernising its infrastructure and training key personnel such as judges and civil inspectors. But Israel "appears to have left unchanged its intellectual property regime."
The Nation
The Nation
HIV groups to march on embassy; lobbyist linked to Thaksin PR firm
A rally will be held in front of the US Em-bassy in Bangkok today by the Thai Network of People Living with HIV/Aids, to protest the US Trade Representative's decision to downgrade Thailand's trade status.
Thailand's downgrade to the US Priority Watch List over copyright violations is widely seen as retaliation against the Public Health Ministry's move to enforce compulsory licensing on certain drugs - including an Aids medicine sold by a US-based company.
"We have found that the affected company hired a lobbyist firm - USA for Innovation - that recently spread false information about Thailand's compulsory-licensing process," Aids Access Foundation director Nimit Tienudom said yesterday.
He added that this lobbyist firm was also linked to ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra. "However, I don't know whether Thaksin is involved in the misleading campaign," Nimit said.
The executive director of USA for Innovation is Ken Adelman, who is also a senior adviser to Edelman Public Relations, which is also used by Merck, Abbot Laboratories, Sanofi - and Thaksin Shinawatra.
The Aids Access Foundation and the Thai Network of People Living with HIV/Aids are among non-governmental organisations that relea-sed a joint statement supporting the Public Health Ministry's move to enforce compulsory licensing.
Many academics, including Samlee Jaidee and Chulalongkorn University lecturers Wittaya Kul-somboon and Jiraporn Limpana-nont, also signed the statement.
The statement urged all government units to be united in the compulsory licensing.
"In particular, the Foreign Affairs and Commerce ministries should fully cooperate with the Public Health Ministry in explaining that the compulsory-licensing process has been in line with Thai law and international rules тАж don't alienate the Public Health Ministry," the statement read.
An informed source disclosed that USA for Innovation - which claims to be a non-profit organisation - recently launched a campaign about violations of US intellectual-property rights that contained misleading information.
For example, the campaign alleged that Thailand was going to enforce compulsory licensing "on 30 medicines".
"It's untrue," Public Health Minister Mongkol na Songkhla yesterday said in response to the allegation.
He insisted that his ministry had announced breaking the patents of three medicines only. Of them, only the compulsory-licensing process for the HIV/Aids drug efavirenz, sold by US-based global pharmaceutical giant Merck under the trade names Sustiva and Stocrin, had already been completed.
The Public Health Ministry has been in negotiations with the patent-holders of two other medicines.
"We have never aggressively enforced compulsory licensing. We've always asked for compassion for the patients," Mongkol said.
Compulsory licensing is permitted under World Trade Organisation rules in national emergencies or justified non-commercial cases. Patent-holders can receive some royalties.
Mongkol said he would fly to the US later this month to explain the rationale behind the compulsory licensing and meet with US drug companies, senators and the US Trade Representative, with arrangements to be made by the Foreign Ministry.
The public-health minister also confirmed that Thailand would join 15 other developing countries and the Clinton Foundation in the bulk buying of drugs, so that they could be bought cheaper.
All of the countries have enforced compulsory licensing.
"The government's compulsory-licensing move wins our full support. This is a move to manufacture life-saving medicines. Thailand needs to move on, because this is the hope of countries all over the world," Wirat Purahong, chairman of the Thai Network of People Living with HIV/Aids, said yesterday.
He believes other countries could lose ground in negotiations with the US if Thailand backs down.
Wirat yesterday led a group of HIV-positive people in offering moral support to Mongkol na Songkhla.
Mongkol thanked the supporters with a vow to push ahead with compulsory licensing. "I will carry on. I will never abandon the patients, and I definitely will not lose heart," Mongkol said.
The US Embassy in Bangkok, however, insisted the downgrade stemmed from widespread violations of copyrights on audiovisual products."
The Nation
Aids activists lash out at US - Bangkok Post
Bangkok (TNA, dpa)
Activists of the Thai Network of People Living with HIV/Aids have called for retaliation against the United States, and for the US to be placed on a "watch list" for violating international sovereignty and patients' rights worldwide.
The puckish yet angry suggestion came after the US Trade Representative placed Thailand on a 12-nation "Priority Watch List" for intellectual property piracy.
Dozens of network members, with representatives of the Aids Access Foundation, on Thursday gathered at the US Embassy and denounced Washington's move as an action taken for commercial purposes only, disregarding morality and human lives.
They said the US accusation of Thailand's failure to sufficiently protect American producers from widespread piracy lacked factual information.
"Evil USA stop threatening access to treatment in Thailand," said one of the banners.
Some protesters rebuked the US trade pressure while praising the Thai government for standing up to the pharmaceutical industry.
"We condemn America because they only think of their own interests," said Nimitr Tien-Udom, director of Aids Access Foundation. He said Aids activists in Thailand had been calling on governments to enforce compulsory licencing on anti-viral drugs since 1999, but their appeals had been ignored by previous administrations.
The demonstrators said they were determined to closely monitor every step the US takes on the matter, and that they called on Aids networks around the world to place the US on a symbolic "Priority Watch List" of their own for violating other countries' sovereignty and human rights for attempting to deprive patients and the poor in developing and undeveloped countries worldwide of access to medicine.
Virat Poorahong, head of the Thai Network of People Living with HIV/Aids, called on Thailand's ministries of foreign affairs and commerce to give clear support tof the Ministry of Public Health's application of compulsory licencing of medicines for better living of patients and the poor, procedures which he said were clearly indicated by WTO procedures.
The network said they believed Public Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla would not change his position regarding the application.
Should Dr Mongkol change his stance, his credibility among the Thai public would definitely fall, Mr Virat said.
Last November, Dr Mongkol issued a compulsory licence for Merck's HIV/Aids treatment drug Efavirenz followed by the second-line combination anti-retroviral therapy Kaletra and the heart disease drug Plavix in January. He explained that his action was in accord with the WTO decision which allows developing countries to produce or import generic versions of patented drugs for government use.
There are an estimated 800,000 people living with HIV in Thailand, and more than one million have died from Aids since it was first detected in the population in 1986. Of the 800,000 HIV patients some 100,000 patients receive medical treatment with anti-viral drugs but of these some 10 per cent are already drug-resistant.
Thailand's unorthodox use of the compulsory clause, which HIV/Aids victims and even the World Health Organization (WHO) have condoned, was one of the main reasons the US on Monday put the kingdom on its "priority watch list," a status which may have an adverse impact on Thai exports to the US in the near future.
"The USA is a developed country but their brains have not been developed," said Mr Virat.""
Bangkok Post
Lunchtime O'Booze
May 3rd, 2007, 20:20
I mean you can't have huge corporations like Adidas having their goods made in China for slave wages and retailing them for inflated prices when countries like Thailand expose them for what they are...gigantic rip-of merchants.
Thais welcome Brazil patent-breaking - Bangkok Post
By Peter Janssen and Chalerm Jiramo
Bangkok (dpa)
HIV/Aids activists on Saturday welcomed Brazil's decision to break patent protection for a drug used to treat Aids, because Thailand is no longer alone in its battle against pharmaceutical giants. "It's a very good development because it means that Thailand has more friends in this fight," said Jon Ungphakorn, secretary-general of the Aids Access Foundation. "I hope other developing countries follow suit."
On Friday, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva signed the relevant decree in Brasilia awarding compulsory licensing for the medication Efavirenz produced by US pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp & Dohme in the South American country. The move follows Thailand's decision to break the patent on Efavirenz in November last year. Thailand in January also applied compulsory licensing - a legal action to break patent protection allowed under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules - on Kaletra, another anti-HIV/Aids drug made by US firm Abbott Laboratories, and Plavis, a blood-thinning drug made by Sanofi-Aventis.
The Asian nation has suffered the consequences.
Last week the US Trade Representative Office put Thailand on its "Priority Watch List" for intellectual property rights infringements, reportedly in response to pressure from the US pharmaceutical industry.
Thai Health Minister Mongkol na Songkhla is scheduled to visit Washington this week to explain the kingdom's reasons for breaking the patents on the drugs in an attempt to get Thailand off the priority watch list, which opens the country up to trade penalties through the loss of so-called General System of Preferences privileges.
With some 600,000 HIV/Aids patients in Thailand, Mongkol insists that the ministry will go ahead with breaking the patents on HIV/Aids drugs unless their prices come down significantly. "We can't give in. There are too many lives at stake," Mongkol told reporters.
While in the US he will also visit New York to sign an agreement with the Clinton Foundation and 16 other developing countries for bulk purchases of essential drugs at cheap prices.
Full article http://www.bangkokpost.net/topstories/t ... ?id=118542 (http://www.bangkokpost.net/topstories/topstories.php?id=118542)
Khun Chukiet is right:
"What is the price of our lives?," asked Mercy Centre official Chukiet Kaewprasertsuk, 32. "How much profit do you want for our lives? I'd just like to say that life is priceless."
India, Pakistan and many other countries do produce and sell generica also for export.
Several (i.e. African) countries developed (whist assistance from Thai scientists) own inexpensive medicines fighting HIV. The therapy is well proven and affectivity of medicines is internationally well recognised. But pharmaceutical trusts are buying politician and doctors in order to prevent manufacturing, trade or prescription, but using the profits and cash squeezed out from less developed countries against there own customers.
Where are the differences between certain pharma trusts and the Medellin cartel? I only know what both of them have in common: Avoiding payments tax while using tricky loopholes and/or tax heavens.
A piece in Asia Sentinel lays bare the hypocrisy of the US action ...
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=31 (http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=480&Itemid=31)
"... the (US) official declined to answer when asked directly if ThailandтАЩs compulsory (drug) licenses were legal under the WTOтАЩs (misprinted in article as WHO) Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property agreement, or TRIPS."
Seems like that's a "yes".
Geezer
May 6th, 2007, 00:31
Whether ThailandтАЩs compulsory drug licensing conforms to WTO regulations is beside the point when discussing Abbott Laboratories' legal right to withhold itsтАШ products.
Abbott Laboratories is a commercial corporation. They have no legal obligation to sell anything to anyone.
I don't like the USA bashing coming from Thailand now, but they have a point. The big pharma companies get everything they want from the US government, because they have bought that priveledge. The USA is now a fascist state in the sense that big business, and the military industrial complex are merged with the government.
Geezer "Abbott Laboratories is a commercial corporation. They have no legal obligation to sell anything to anyone."
This, underlying, view seems common amongst American brought up on the sanctity of Capitalism. It is ,sadly, true that they have no legal obligation.
However, we have seen in the case of South Africa the World moral opinion will not permit drug companies to withhold life saving drugs from dying people for reason of profit or, presumably, to blackmail Thailand. That is what Abbott have done to Thailand despite them being aware of the WTO protocols. Basically they are blackmailing Thailand saying 'stop producing legal generic drugs or we will not sell life saving AIDS drugs to you and your people will die'.
Some people seems to think that is a reasonable position??? However, as you say it is legal.
==========================================
US barred from drug reprisal - The Nation
The United States is prohibited from retaliatory action over Thailand's decision to ignore patents on some expensive American-made drugs, a senior Commerce Ministry official said yesterday. World Trade Organisation rules protect Thailand from US trade action over the move, the official said.
The government invoked compulsory licensing on some expensive HIV/Aids and heart-disease drugs using WTO rules, the source explained.
The official, who asked not to be named, said the government could lodge a WTO complaint if it determined the US had downgraded Thailand's intellectual-property-rights rating over the drug issue.
Thailand is now on the US priority watch list, a level lower than in previous years, meaning Thailand will be closely monitored for ntellectual-property-rights violations. The downgrade comes with associated cuts in tariff privileges on exports awarded under the Generalised System of Preferences. Many believe the downgrade was a response to the compulsory licensing.
The source said the government had followed WTO rules and the US was forbidden to take tit-for-tat action."
The Nation
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So the US Government cannot take action BUT Abbott Labs can? Have they no conscience whatever? Imagine if Salk had made the Polio vaccine prohibitively expensive.
The Pharmaceutical companies have invested huge amounts of money to employ US scientist to develop these drugs. They deserve to be sell their produce and not have it stolen from them... The Thai government is not poor.. By recent reports the Thai government is awash with US dollars - instead of legalizing the copying of drugs why does it not open its purse and help it people?...
Aunty
May 6th, 2007, 12:20
The Pharmaceutical companies have invested huge amounts of money to employ US scientist to develop these drugs. They deserve to be sell their produce and not have it stolen from them... The Thai government is not poor.. By recent reports the Thai government is awash with US dollars - instead of legalizing the copying of drugs why does it not open its purse and help it people?...
Exactly. I'm just shocked at the utter abject piss-ignorance of some of the posters to this board on this matter, with their sugar plum fairy magical thinking. (does it match your ruby slippers?) Neither Thailand nor Brazil are poor countries, and given the amount of money Thailand spends each year on its military given the absence of any discernible external threat, to claim poverty as the excuse to steal medicines that do not belong to it is outrageous. I hope that all drug companies stop all further development of HIV drugs immediately. If I owned one, that would be my directive.
For those who are legally blond and clueless on this topic I can recommend no more cogent an argument than that written by Bob T on the related thread in this forum. (See below) It's just a pity that all too few seem to get it.
This is an interesting debate going on here for a change so I will put in my two cents. I am sure that all of us want to see people (rich or poor) who need life sustaining drugs receive those drugs. The question becomes how does one keep the momentum going on the research and development of new drugs if the corporations which do this do not make a profit on the sale of those drugs? The drug companies are in business to make money for their shareholders. Their raison d'etre is to return profits to their shareholders NOT to operate as a benevolent organization. Sorry folks but that is the way it is. Corporations try to make money, as much of it as they can, same as you and me when we work.
Thailand and like countries spend more on military and defense than on health care. I have a hard time listening to the government of Thailand using arguments like not affording these drugs when the military spends lavishly to insure they can roll a tank into Bangkok to "restore" democracy so let's put some of the blame where it belongs. It all has to do sometimes with priorities. We all know where the Thai government's priorities are, and it is NOT education and health care. Some where in this thread is something quoted that Thailand has universal health care. We know this is NOT the case. They don't come close. All this does not mean that I don't think there are some very dedicated people in Thailand working hard to care for those with HIV and AIDS, there are. But the government surely has not given any leadership to this issue. While many can understandably support the Thai governments desire to get around the drug companies by manufacturing their own generics, it does not do any good when, like someone said, the drug companies decide it is no longer profitable to develop such drugs and just stick to making drugs that are of more interest in the western countries. I personally think that there should probably be more funding by governments to develop those drugs which are so badly needed throughout the world and then they could be manufactured and distributed at cost throughout the world.
We have a situation going on here in the United States with hospitals emergency rooms. Hospitals with emergency rooms are required by law to admit anyone for emergency treatment whether they can pay or not and whether they have insurance or not. Now this is all fine and good in theory. However once the hospitals start loosing money on the cost of this emergency treatment because there is no or little reimbursement from the government, they quickly see the writing on the wall and ultimately close the emergency rooms altogether. This has and is happening. There is no doubt that the health care system in the USA is broken and need of major overhaul. The point is that once the financial incentive is taken away the hospitals (corporations) figure other methods of making a return on their investment or at least stopping the areas of loss.
Lastly, I will mention that we always here about the huge profits made by drug companies but wouldn't it be more informative for us to actually look at these public corporations and see how the money is made and how it is spent and what the net return really is. I wish I had the time to actually look into Abbott and see what their return on investment is for the drug in question and overall. No one should be foolish enough to think any corporation is satisfied with a 10 or 15% return. They just as well close the doors and invest the money elsewhere with no effort. They must grow their profits year after year or the stock holders will invest elsewhere.
So as much as I think those of you who think the drug companies should be more benevolent are well intentioned, it is just not real world thinking. Is Abbott's stand against the Thai authorities any different in Microsoft and movie companies going after those who pirate CD/DVD/software?
I think the Thai government should have negotiated with Abbott BEFORE sticking their neck out and taking unilateral action. I am happy that Abbott saw fit to work with the Thai government and reach a settlement that will help those in need of this drug. But if all underdeveloped, poor countries took this attitude, the drug companines would do one of two things to maintain their profit: (1) charge more for the drug in the USA and Europe countries placing the burdon on the people of these countries, (2) stop conducting research and stop manufacturing such drugs that do not give them a return on their investment. It is the world's governments that can negotiate with the drug companies and reach solid and fair agreements but they must step up to the plate and be willing to put health care above defense spending. That would show me that they are really looking after the needs of their people. That is not likely to happen.
Geezer
May 6th, 2007, 13:07
тАЬHowever, as you say it is legal.тАЭ
Yes, I was commenting only on the legal situation.
The Nation unhelpfully contributes to a confusing co-mingling of the WTO and Abbott issues by printing comments such as, тАЬThe source said the government had followed WTO rules and the US was forbidden to take tit-for-tat action."
The US government, in a accordance with WTO regulations, is taking action against PhotoShopтАЩs being sold for two dollars a copy in Thailand. Abbott is having itsтАЩ own problems with Thailand
The US government is taking action against PhotoShopтАЩs being sold for two dollars a copy in Thailand. What has that to do with drugs?.
Likely many are sure it has a lot to do with drugs. In a world where millions believe in Scientology, and Homeopathy, that is their privilege.
Funny then that the US government's announcement refers specifically to Thailand's "decisions to issue compulsory licenses for several patented pharmaceutical products." ...
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=31 (http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=480&Itemid=31)
http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/c/thail ... d2007.html (http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/c/thailand/301thailand2007.html)
http://www.ustr.gov/assets/Document_Lib ... _11122.pdf (http://www.ustr.gov/assets/Document_Library/Reports_Publications/2007/2007_Special_301_Review/asset_upload_file980_11122.pdf)
Lunchtime O'Booze
May 6th, 2007, 13:39
This isn't about whether the Thai Government can afford to pay-that doesn't help Thai nationals who are ill.
It's also a bit rich to continue acting likely US ( and German for that matter) drug companies shouldn't be muscled by the Thai government . If the US drug companies had their way they would do away with socialized medicine everywhere. They were behind the continued campaign to "get" Bill Clinton from the day he announced Hillary was to front an inquiry into providing universal health care to US citizens.
They are rapacious capitalist organizations which would be fine-except they don't play by capitalist rules. In fact ever since George Bush gained power-with his biggest backers being drug companies, he has undermined capitalism and seems intent on turning the US into a new style fascist state-where government works hand in hand with corporations.
(rant ends here.. for today) :pukeright:
Geezer
May 6th, 2007, 13:43
It appears the two issues are indeed related. Thank you, Hmmm, for enlightening me.
From the 2007 USTR 301 Report
тАЬWhile the United States acknowledges a countryтАЩs ability to issue such licenses in accordance with WTO rules, the lack of transparency and due process exhibited in Thailand represents a serious concern.тАЭ
Further details of the US hypocrisy ...
http://www.keionline.org/index.php?opti ... 4&Itemid=1 (http://www.keionline.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=1)
So the US issues compulsory licenses on patents according to the WTO rules for its own benefit, but punishes other countries who do so. Hmmm...
Hmmm - Thanks for the link to a very illuminating website. This hypocrisy caught my eye.
Full article http://www.keionline.org/index.php?opti ... 3&Itemid=1 (http://www.keionline.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=1)
"Abbott recently sought compulsory license in US patent dispute
(When the shoe was on the other foot, Abbott asked for a compulsory license, while criticizing Thailand for issuing compulsory licenses)
On the 12th of January 2007, Abbott Laboratories lost a bid in a U.S. District Court (the Western District of Wisconsin) for a compulsory license on a patent held by Innogenetics, Inc. that a judge and jury said Abbott infringed to manufacture and sell Hepatitis C virus (HCV) genotyping test kits.
The compulsory licensing request was an effort to avoid an injunction that would prevent Abbott from using the Innogenetics patent without permission from the patent owner.
Abbott was using a new legal doctrine in U.S. law set out in an important but relatively under-appreciated May 2006 U.S. Supreme Court decision, eBay Inc v. MercExchange, L.L.C. (See discussion below), which makes it harder to obtain injunctions when a Court ordered royalty payment is more equitable or less damaging to the public interest...."
The Pharmaceutical companies have invested huge amounts of money to employ US scientist to develop these drugs. They deserve to be sell their produce and not have it stolen from them... The Thai government is not poor.. By recent reports the Thai government is awash with US dollars - instead of legalizing the copying of drugs why does it not open its purse and help it people?...
1. Pharmaceutical trusts using commonly not there own capital for R 6 D, they uses taxpayer’s money instead. The money is available as directly injected grants, subsidized income or tax deprecations.
2. Incomes
GNI- Gross National Income per capita:
Per year PPP$ (Current PPP$)
Thailand:
1975 (720 USD) 1980 (1 330) 1985 (2 050)
1990 (3 600) 1995 (5 830) 2000 (6 250)
2003 (7 450)
http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_d ... Country=TH (http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu/indicator_detail.cfm?IndicatorID=140&Country=TH)
USA
1975 (7 540 USD) 1980 (12 220) 1985 (17 650)
1990 (23 130) 1995 (27 650) 2000 (34 690)
2003 (37 750)
Payments for many imported (Western) medicines in Thailand are usually higher than in countries of origin.
Furthermore the prices vary from country to country but some contries, like Thailand, don' enjoy the lesses prices.
Just a price reduction about the amount of money spent for lobbying, marketing etc. would be useful since HIV related drugs can only available by doctors prescription and through licensed dispensaries. Costs of marketing activities summarize up to 40 to 60 percent of sales prices.
Official Thai diplomacy isn’t really well not for its refinement. They could handle this topic more sensitive. But the behaviour of pharmaceutical industries is poor.
Aunty
May 6th, 2007, 19:04
Further details of the US hypocrisy ...
http://www.keionline.org/index.php?opti ... 4&Itemid=1 (http://www.keionline.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=1)
So the US issues compulsory licenses on patents according to the WTO rules for its own benefit, but punishes other countries who do so. Hmmm...
What a load of flat-earthers crap! Here is a paragraph of drivel lifted from this website.
The United States has issued compulsory licenses on patents at least five times since last May, without any controversy, what patents? Are they drug patents? Why don't they quote any sources? Saying so is simply not good enough. and the Italian government has issued compulsory licenses on pharmaceutical patents three times since 2005, including one in March of 2007. What are the drugs? Where is the evidence? Why no source quote? Thailand is being singled out entirely because the USTR and the Bush White House were not willing to stand up to corporate lobbying from Merck, Abbott, Sanofi and other PhRMA members. Says who? Where is the evidence that any such lobbying took place? A matter of opinion masquerading as fact means exactly that. It's just a matter of opinion.
Hey did you fellas' know that the sun goes around the earth? It's true! I mean just go outside and take a look if you don't believe me. See it with your own eyes and I know you will believe!
Thailand is being singled out entirely because the USTR and the Bush White House were not willing to stand up to corporate lobbying from Merck, Abbott, Sanofi and other PhRMA members. Says who? Where is the evidence that any such lobbying took place? A matter of opinion masquerading as fact means exactly that. It's just a matter of opinion.
The extraordinary lobbying by groups with dubious ties (Adelman / Abbott / Thaksin), including a distorted full page advertisement in the Wall Street Journal and an opinion piece in the Washington Times, has been one of the most remarked aspects of the US action. Since it seems to have escaped your close reading on these issues, here are some links ...
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=31 (http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=480&Itemid=31)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-lov ... 46779.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-love/what-does-democratscom-h_b_46779.html)
http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/ ... aksin.html (http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/05/for-innovation-another-evil-thaksin.html)
http://washtimes.com/commentary/2007042 ... -6067r.htm (http://washtimes.com/commentary/20070426-082753-6067r.htm)
http://www.usaforinnovation.org/home/index.cfm
Information on the use of heath-related compulsory licensing by rich and poor countries is here:
http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/cl/recent-examples.html
http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/cl/
Also ...
http://www.publicintegrity.org/rx/report.aspx?aid=823
"Manufacturers of pharmaceuticals, medical devices and other health products spent nearly $182 million on federal lobbying from January 2005 through June 2006, a Center for Public Integrity study of disclosure records shows. Of that total, drug companies and their trade groups spent most of it, or $155 million, lobbying on a variety of issues ranging from protecting lucrative drug patents to keeping lower-priced Canadian drugs from being imported to the United States Drug interests employed about 1,100 lobbyists to do their bidding in each of the past two years."
While I know AIDS drugs are dear to the heart of all who read this forum and it skews the opinion of the larger issue... There has been a huge transfer of the technology (That was developed by the West) to Asia... They have taken that technology and many are getting rich (Look at Thai exports of cars, tvs, electronics...on and on) Huge wealth reserves are being built up in many Asian countries... This money is controlled by a few elite who prefer to buy T Bills and REAL Louis Vuitton rather than building a health care system or their own drug research facility to benefit society...
All this goes on while some of you bash American as some uncaring corrupt society whose time has passed...
I can see why no one buys US products - it is so easy to just steal them...
Same Same...
Aunty
May 7th, 2007, 19:22
Thailand is being singled out entirely because the USTR and the Bush White House were not willing to stand up to corporate lobbying from Merck, Abbott, Sanofi and other PhRMA members. Says who? Where is the evidence that any such lobbying took place? A matter of opinion masquerading as fact means exactly that. It's just a matter of opinion.
The extraordinary lobbying by groups with dubious ties (Adelman / Abbott / Thaksin), including a distorted full page advertisement in the Wall Street Journal and an opinion piece in the Washington Times, has been one of the most remarked aspects of the US action. Since it seems to have escaped your close reading on these issues, here are some links ...
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=31 (http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=480&Itemid=31)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-lov ... 46779.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-love/what-does-democratscom-h_b_46779.html)
http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/ ... aksin.html (http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/05/for-innovation-another-evil-thaksin.html)
http://washtimes.com/commentary/2007042 ... -6067r.htm (http://washtimes.com/commentary/20070426-082753-6067r.htm)
http://www.usaforinnovation.org/home/index.cfm
Information on the use of heath-related compulsory licensing by rich and poor countries is here:
http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/cl/recent-examples.html
http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/cl/
Also ...
http://www.publicintegrity.org/rx/report.aspx?aid=823
"Manufacturers of pharmaceuticals, medical devices and other health products spent nearly $182 million on federal lobbying from January 2005 through June 2006, a Center for Public Integrity study of disclosure records shows. Of that total, drug companies and their trade groups spent most of it, or $155 million, lobbying on a variety of issues ranging from protecting lucrative drug patents to keeping lower-priced Canadian drugs from being imported to the United States Drug interests employed about 1,100 lobbyists to do their bidding in each of the past two years."
So what you're saying then is that in a free and open society like the US, that no business should be allowed to lobby its own government to protect its property from outside theft (because god alone knows nothing a drug company says could possibly be true), and secondly, that the US Govt. is some sort of malevolent dictatorship that marches like automatons to the the directives of the drug companies etc., because god alone knows the Congress and the Administration has never had an independent thought of their own, the constitution doesn't exist and the Supreme Court is a figment of everybody's imagination, and besides, what the drug companies say is nothing but a pack of lies anyway becuase it's the drug companies that are saying it.
Yeah right. What a load of tosh. Here's my other leg, now pull that bugger.
By the way, here's a cut and paste of the "Information on the use of heath-related compulsory licensing by rich and poor countries is here:
http://www.cptech.org/ip/health/cl/recent-examples.html" that you qutoe above, regrading the US. Hardly an indictment, and certainly nothing like as bad as Thailand.
United States
For a large number of US compulsory licenses examples, see the September 29, 2001 CPTech document Examples of Compulsory Licensing of Intellectual Property in the United States.
On January 29, 2004, the nonprofit corporation Essential Inventions petitioned the US Department of Health and Human Services for compulsory licenses to manufacture and sell inexpensive generic versions of latanoprost (Xalatan) and ritonavir (Norvir). Both drugs were developed with federal funding, and the government has rights through the Bayh-Dole Act to "march in" on the patent rights and license them to another producer. On August 4, 2004, the NIH turned down the request for ritonavir. It has not yet responded to the latanoprost request.
Essential Inventions page on its request for a compulsory license for Latanoprost (Xalatan).
Essential Inventions page on its request for a compulsory license for Ritonavir (Norvir).
The anthrax scare in the fall of 2001 led DHHS Secretary Thompson to seek a large enough stockpile of ciprofloxacin (Cipro) to treat 10 million people. This quantity was far greater than the supply, and Bayer lacked the capacity to produce such a large quantity in a timely manner. On October 16, Sen. Schumer asked Thompson to issue a complusory licenses to generic manufacturers.
CPTech Page on the 2001 dispute over a compulsory license for Cipro in response to the anthrax scare.
October 16, 2004. Press release from Sen. Schumer's office. New Cipro Source Could Dramatically Increase Supply - Federal Law Allows US to Purchase Generic Version of Cipro Directly From Manufacturers; Would Significantly Reduce Prices, Increase Supply.
Don't forget that Aunty's amoeba lab is funded by A Big Drug Company so don't expect impartiality
So what you're saying then is that in a free and open society like the US, that no business should be allowed to lobby its own government to protect its property from outside theft (because god alone knows nothing a drug company says could possibly be true),
Shall I take that as an admission on your part that the lobbying you said didn't exist does in fact exist ? Geezer's concession was much more dignified.
The anthrax scare in the fall of 2001 led DHHS Secretary Thompson to seek a large enough stockpile of ciprofloxacin (Cipro) to treat 10 million people. This quantity was far greater than the supply, and Bayer lacked the capacity to produce such a large quantity in a timely manner. On October 16, Sen. Schumer asked Thompson to issue a complusory licenses to generic manufacturers.
So the US threatens German company Bayer with compulsory licensing of cipro, causing Bayer to drastically reduce the price and guarantee an adequate supply.
Sounds remarkably like the Thai government strategy doesn't it ?
Latanoprost and Ritonavir are drugs developed with US government money that are grossly over-priced in the US. Essential Inventions, a nonprofit corporation created to distribute affordable public health and other inventions, tried and failed to get the US government to enforce lower pricing on Abbott and Pfizer. So the US protected big pharma even at the expense of its own citizens, who funded the drugs' development.
So that supports your argument how ? At least big pharma and the US government don't discriminate when they screw their own poor just like those in other countries ?
Are you deliberately supplying me with arguments that further support my case, or are you doing so inadvertently ?
Lunchtime O'Booze
May 7th, 2007, 21:00
I actually think most of this is correct to some degree :"(because god alone knows nothing a drug company says could possibly be true), and secondly, that the US Govt. is some sort of malevolent dictatorship "..although fascist would be a better word.
But then I would as I'm a reconstructed Marxist cum capitalist with socialist tendencies...but I'm a party to that vioxx class action against Merck..we lost the first round due to some idiot Republican judge in Michigan or somewhere but we will win in the end and some lucky lad will get my share as I'll be long gone by the time it happens. ( mind you I thank God for Eli Lilly's Prozac :3some: )
Actually I reckon the days of knock-offs are severely numbered even for Thailand so now is the time to stock up on your fake Louis Vuittons and Rolex's...expect some really big time action soon ..the French / Italian manufactures have teemed up with US intellectual property rights heavies and I fully expect them to start pressuring western countries to introduce similar laws to France where it's illegal to own a knock-off French product.
Geezer
May 8th, 2007, 00:10
The US is supposed to pay Thailand for itsтАЩ products, but Thais should get US products free.
I hope I havenтАЩt broken any rules by posting this from Gay Thailand.
"A few days ago the police launched a raid against the pirate software and DVD vendors at Tuk Com. The following appeared in the PATTAYA CITY NEWS:
_____
1.5 Million Baht raid of Tuk.Com IT Center in South Pattaya
It is widely known that the Tuk.Com IT Center located on the South Pattaya Road sells copies of well known Audio CDтАЩs and DVD Movies on the 4th Floor. The vendors run the risk of arrest and confiscation of the CDтАЩs on a daily basis and we have reported on raids by Police at the Center on many occasions. This is one such raid conducted by Police Lieutenant Colonel Santi from Pattaya Police Station who conducted a raid of around 30 shops on the 4th Floor of the Center on Wednesday Night.
On this occasion no vendors could be arrested as they were able to escape before the Police arrived. The Police entered each unattended shop and confiscated over 10,000 CDтАЩs, VCDтАЩs and DVDтАЩs worth an estimated 1.5 Million Baht.
The Police will conduct further investigations into the sale of these items at the Center and will attempt to locate and arrest the vendors as soon as they can.
_____
Today I was in Tuk Com. Out of curiosity I went to the fourth floor. Lo and behold, every one of the vendors was back in business, fully stocked. Welcome to Thailand, y'all."
http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index ... topic=1686 (http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index.php?s=88167b0f3f76f39617c254b982adbefe&showtopic=1686).
Let's not blame Thailand for all the DVD and CD copying in the World. It is prevalent absolutely everywhere - probably more so in the US than anywhere else. I can, if I learn how, download almost anything electronically recorded using links and torrents and the like plus a little patience.
The stated losses to Hollywood, games and computer software etc, I suspect are grossly overstated. Yes there may be many thousands of copies sold but they are sold to people who would not buy the full price tax paid originals even at 25% of their usual price. They have just become to used to making easy money from recordings. In the days of Videos they charged ludicrous prices in Europe - on average 25% more expensive than in the US. I don't see any lack of profits in the movie business. What other business can constantly afford to pay dozens of top people 10 to 20 million dollars for a few months work? Most movies, I read, currently make more money on their DVD sales than on cinema sales.
The technology is there to copy stuff and that is not going to change. With bands getting broader and broader, home copying is constantly getting easier and better quality. Home cinemas are getting commonplace and the demand is enormous.
The wealth of the poorer nations has constantly been seconded by Western Empires both physical and commercial and continues to this day. Let's not get into a frenzy because the fabulously wealthy USA is loosing out on a few dollars to the third world.
It is a long time ago I know but Gilbert and Sullivan used to get in a frenzy when they found out that their operettas were being stolen and performed in the USA with no royalties paid. At great expense they travelled to the USA and sued the producers in court. After a long time they were awarded the magnificent sum of US$15,000 but the producers went bankrupt and they got nothing. The answer was to open new operettas virtually simultaneously in the US and UK and so their fortunes grew.
Where will current technologies take us and how will it work economically - nobody knows. Just compare the fanfare and money spent buying Windows 98 with the current launch of Vista!
I suppose that there is no stopping the US leaning on foreign Governments to protect Intellectual Property rights. The EU and Japan seem gentler in their approach and certainly from what I see in Thai markets a lot of copied stuff comes from those sources.
Wish the were as serious about protecting the rights of foreign IP as their local...
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03 ... 29159.html (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/13/pda/national_30029159.html)
kodiak
May 8th, 2007, 03:45
Yes , copies are evrywhere including the US........I can any day go downtown Los Angles to Santee Alley shopping area........and buy any new issue DVD many not even released yet for 5 bucks each...........vendors carry them in big plastic bags......they come out ...lay them out in the alley and they sell like hot cakes.....undercover police are always there...but i beleive they just confiscate the product and release the offendors..?
I am able to buy better quality knock off sunglasses cheaper in Los Angles than in Thailand....go figure..?
When I left Bangkok about a month ago I COULD NOT find my CD store. Nothing. I even told my friend on Soi 4. I went to Panthip and could not find the MS2007 my brother wanted me to bring back. Later I was told that I had to ask for the "catalog" which is different than b4. I just didn't know. But I never saw things so tight b4. The vendor on PP1 said there was a big crackdown. I'm amazed it took so long to get reported here.
Hands up all those who refuse to buy copy goods on principle. Yes I thought so.
Hands up all those who refuse to buy copy goods on principle. Yes I thought so.
I do. I have little use for the genuine article, and even less for the copies.
Lunchtime O'Booze
May 8th, 2007, 13:44
the bootlegging of Hollywood films begins at the studio...and no matter how much they try to plug the leaks it's virtually impossible.
That's why new laws will be targeted at the customer.
At which point just about all of us will be banged up and relying on boygeenyus for food parcels. (I wonder if he'll visit Homitern ?) :dontknow:
I do. I have little use for the genuine article, and even less for the copies.
Me2. In the past I've bought copies of software, usually at Ratchadapisek. If the software was useful then I've paid a license, otherwise flung it away. Currently, I'm migrating my collection of LaserDisk operas onto DVD in case my LaserDisk player packs up. The way I see it I've paid for the IP already.
Currently, I'm migrating my collection of LaserDisk operas onto DVD in case my LaserDisk player packs up.
Cantonese opera? I didn't know you were a fan. I thought you were strictly a dog show groupie.
Opera DVD's? I guess we know who the fancy fags around here are.
Opera DVD's? I guess we know who the fancy fags around here are.
Boygeenyus, dear, that's fancy fag wannabe. The 5'2" FILTH will always be trying to reach for the stars of Victoria Peak when the slums of East London is where he truly belongs.
Aunty
May 8th, 2007, 19:10
So what you're saying then is that in a free and open society like the US, that no business should be allowed to lobby its own government to protect its property from outside theft (because god alone knows nothing a drug company says could possibly be true),
Shall I take that as an admission on your part that the lobbying you said didn't exist does in fact exist ? Geezer's concession was much more dignified.
The anthrax scare in the fall of 2001 led DHHS Secretary Thompson to seek a large enough stockpile of ciprofloxacin (Cipro) to treat 10 million people. This quantity was far greater than the supply, and Bayer lacked the capacity to produce such a large quantity in a timely manner. On October 16, Sen. Schumer asked Thompson to issue a complusory licenses to generic manufacturers.
So the US threatens German company Bayer with compulsory licensing of cipro, causing Bayer to drastically reduce the price and guarantee an adequate supply.
Sounds remarkably like the Thai government strategy doesn't it ?
Latanoprost and Ritonavir are drugs developed with US government money that are grossly over-priced in the US. Essential Inventions, a nonprofit corporation created to distribute affordable public health and other inventions, tried and failed to get the US government to enforce lower pricing on Abbott and Pfizer. So the US protected big pharma even at the expense of its own citizens, who funded the drugs' development.
So that supports your argument how ? At least big pharma and the US government don't discriminate when they screw their own poor just like those in other countries ?
Are you deliberately supplying me with arguments that further support my case, or are you doing so inadvertently ?
On the contrary my little urchin, it is you who are supporting my case, although I somehow doubt you have the wit to see why, or how.
1. What I am saying is that neither you (nor anyone who shares your irrational views) has supplied a shred of evidence that Abbott got the US Govt. to place Thailand on its watch list for stealing intellectual property solely as a result of its lobbying, or that somehow, the drug companies control the US govt. Kindly READ what I write and understand it would ya, donтАЩt just make it up as you go along. IтАЩm not your mommy.
2. The case you allude to above with respect to the anthrax scare has nothing to with the cost of medicine, which is the rationale of ThailandтАЩs current actions over AbbottтАЩs HIV drugs. Jesus, canтАЩt you read? This was an issue of supply, namely it was about BayerтАЩs lack of capacity to supply its antibiotic in sufficient quantities to supply the US in the event of an anthrax attack and outbreak. According to the link posted above, the US was threatening compulsory licensing so it could ensure that it had an adequate supply of the drug, (presumably by harnessing its own vast capacity for drugs manufacture) it had nothing to do with cost. STOP embellishing things to try and make your argument. Learn to read accurately, Jesus.
3. And finally, the case of Latanoprost and Ritonavir have absolutely no analogy with the situation in Thailand whatsoever. First of all, this is a dispute among US companies over the pricing of a medicine that was developed in the US with US taxpayerтАЩs money. If this dispute cannot be resolved and the parties so wish it, they can continue to litigate all contractual matters through the courts, which the last time I looked, were independent of the US government. (I doubt if the same can be said of Thai courts). The example you supply is not a case of the theft of a public American companyтАЩs intellectual property, orchestrated and carried out by the Government of a foreign state.
Stomping your feet and saying that the earth is, it is, it is flat, does not make it so, even if that is all you can see.
I was reading the posts and think I can add a little information and facts. I worked for Bayer during the Cipro ordeal with the US government. In fact I had very high level access to the negotiations. The issue was never capacity.. other then to justify the high prices that Bayer charged.
When I was onboard the US government threatened to break our patent on Cipro unless we lowered the price to 1 USD per pill... we had been selling for 6 USD per pill. Bayer lobbied for a few days.. we lower the price to 1 USD to keep the patent... We made the drugs on time and still recorded record profits.
So it was 100% about the cost of the Cipro and what the US government was willing to pay.... anything less is 100% not true. I know first hand.
These drugs are insanely overpriced.... Bayer is a pvt held company with hugh, hugh cash reserves!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was reading the posts and think I can add a little information and facts. I worked for Bayer during the Cipiro ordeal with the US government. In fact I had very high level access to the negotiations. The issue was never capacity.. other then to justify the high prices that Bayer charged.
When I was onboard the US government threatened to break our patent on Cipiro unless we lowered the price to 1 USD per pill... we had been selling for 6 USD per pill. Bayer lobbied for a few days.. we lower the price to 1 USD to keep the patent... We made the drugs on time and still recorded record profits.
So it was 100% about the cost of the Cipiro and what the US government was willing to pay.... anything less is 100% not true. I know first hand.
These drugs are insanely overpriced.... Bayer is a pvt held company with hugh, hugh cash reserves!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You had "high level access to the negotiations", yet you can't even spell the drug correctly?
Thank you for caring... good to have one dedicated to saving the world from spelling errors.
CIPRO
Thanks, but I'm happy enough just saving the world from bullshit posters.
Thanks, but I'm happy enough just saving the world from bullshit posters.The impossible takes a little longer.
Aunty
May 11th, 2007, 17:30
I've just picked up this website from another board. Makes for very interesting reading. If accurate, then it certainly shines a whole new light on this matter and may give some of the boards more dim socialist hand-wringers something to think about.
e.g.,, if indeed one of the reasons the cost of medicine is so high in Thailand is because of 1. the high import duties they slap on imported medicine, and. 2, the VAT tax they cream off on top of that when the medicine is sold - and not a murmur from Thailand about reducing its greedy taxes on medicines so Thailand's poor can afford HIV medication, well really.................................. And then there's the military spending.................
http://www.thailies.com/
Aunty
May 11th, 2007, 17:51
You know taking a step back and thinking about this in a broder sense, is what Thailand's doing here really any different than a Thai bar-boys Papa's sick buffalo broke the brother's car so sister can't go to the hospital to have her operation on the baby who needs special medicine, so send money now? Miss you, luv you XXX.
I don't think it is.
Clinton supports Thai patent-busting
New York (BangkokPost.com compiled from agency reports)
"No company will ever die because of the high price premium for Aids drugs in middle-income countries," said former US president Bill Clinton, with Public Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla at his side. "But patients may."
__________________________________________________ ___
Full story:
Former US President Bill Clinton, standing next to Public Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla, has endorsed recent decisions by Thailand and Brazil to break patents held by American pharmaceutical companies.
Mr Clinton said prices charged by drug companies are "exorbitant," despite claims by the companies they are reasonable.
"No company will ever die because of the high price premium for Aids drugs in middle-income countries," he said - "but patients may."
"I believe in intellectual property ... but that need not prevent us from getting essential life-saving medicines to those who need them in low- and middle-income countries alike."
Mr Clinton unveiled a deal with two Indian drugs firms to cheaply produce HIV/Aids drugs for 66 countries.
Mr Clinton said seven million people in those countries were in need of treatment for HIV/Aids, but could not afford it.
The Clinton Foundation's agreement will cut the cost of what are known as second line anti-retrovirals by 25-50%.
"Our announcement today responds directly to these challenges and sets the foundation not only for treatment for many more people but treatment that is more equitable, more affordable and more effective," he said.
Second line drugs are used when cheaper and earlier forms of treatment fail.
Mr Clinton says the prices of second-line treatments negotiated by his foundation will fall on average by 25 per cent in low-income countries and 50 per cent in middle-income countries.
His foundation has also negotiated a deal allowing the one-pill-a-day, first-line treatment to be made available for less than $US1 a day for developing countries, a 45 per cent saving on the current price in Africa.
"This drug represents the best chance that science has to offer," he said.
United States trade officials last week put Thailand on a watch list for countries inadequately safeguarding the intellectual property rights of American companies, noting the overriding of drug patents.
Tido von Shoen-Angerer, who leads the campaign by Doctors Without Borders for access to medicines, said he was unsure whether the recent developments would encourage developing countries to exercise their rights under international trade rules more freely to make or import generic drugs.
тАЬThereтАЩs a strong chilling effect from the U.S. action,тАЭ he said.
Drug company officials yesterday strongly defended their policies of charging better-off developing countries more for Aids drugs than they did for poor countries, as well as the role of patents, which give inventor companies a monopoly on the sale of a drug, in stimulating the development of new drugs.
Jennifer Smoter, a spokeswoman for Abbott, said patents were needed тАЬto ensure innovation in the futureтАЭ but declined to respond to Mr. ClintonтАЩs comment that тАЬAbbott has been almost alone in its hard-line position here over what I consider to be a life and death matter.тАЭ
Bravo
Aunty
May 11th, 2007, 18:44
Wowpee instead of cutting and pasting endlessly, why don't you answer a simple question using your own words.
If drug companies are denied the ability to make a profit on the sale of their drugs because they get stolen and are made elsewhere, where will the incentive and innovation to develop third and fourth generation medicines actually come from, given that it takes about US$800,000,000.00 to bring a drug to market?
Wowpee instead of cutting and pasting endlessly, why don't you answer a simple question using your own words.
If drug companies are denied the ability to make a profit on the sale of their drugs because they get stolen and are made elsewhere, where will the incentive and innovation to develop third and fourth generation medicines actually come from, given that it takes about US$800,000,000.00 to bring a drug to market?
I think he's probably too busy lobbying the Thai government to break the patent on Botox to answer you.
Aunty
May 11th, 2007, 19:26
Wowpee instead of cutting and pasting endlessly, why don't you answer a simple question using your own words.
If drug companies are denied the ability to make a profit on the sale of their drugs because they get stolen and are made elsewhere, where will the incentive and innovation to develop third and fourth generation medicines actually come from, given that it takes about US$800,000,000.00 to bring a drug to market?
I think he's probably too busy lobbying the Thai government to break the patent on Botox to answer you.
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Hmmm
May 11th, 2007, 20:02
I've just picked up this website from another board. Makes for very interesting reading. If accurate, then it certainly shines a whole new light on this matter and may give some of the boards more dim socialist hand-wringers something to think about.
e.g.,, if indeed one of the reasons the cost of medicine is so high in Thailand is because of 1. the high import duties they slap on imported medicine, and. 2, the VAT tax they cream off on top of that when the medicine is sold - and not a murmur from Thailand about reducing its greedy taxes on medicines so Thailand's poor can afford HIV medication, well really.................................. And then there's the military spending.................
http://www.thailies.com/
Well done Aunty. First you said the drug company lobbying didn't exist. Now you've fallen into the hands of the lobbyists yourself.
If you want to be taken seriously in a debate like this, you really must read the prescribed material properly.
See that little link in the bottom right hand corner of the thailies site, to http://www.usaforinnovation.org ?
I had already provided that link in my earlier posts, as well as this discussion pointing out the questionable pedigree of this lobbying operation ...
http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/ ... aksin.html (http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/05/for-innovation-another-evil-thaksin.html)
They were responsible for the disingenuous pieces in the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Times.
Ken Adelmen, who was behind those pieces, also works for Abbott's PR firm. And that firm also happens to be Thaksin's PR outfit. This is particularly telling, since USA for Innovation has also been aggressively spreading criticism of the current Thai government on issues that have nothing to do with drugs.
Adelman is a Washingtion conservative who was one of the neocons behind the Iraq debacle, and famously predicted that American forces would enjoy 'a cakewalk' in Iraq.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... th_Adelman (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Kenneth_Adelman)
No one else takes Adelman seriously anymore. But don't let that stop you Aunty. He sounds like an ideal bedfellow. I doubt that anyone would ever mistake him for a 'socialist hand-wringer'.
Exactly which of the facts on the thailies site do you have trouble with, then?
Hmmm
May 11th, 2007, 23:44
Exactly which of the facts on the thailies site do you have trouble with, then?
I guess it would have to be the assumption that poor Thai AIDs sufferers should bear the brunt of the intransigence of governments (US or Thai) and billion dollar corporations ...
Aunty
May 12th, 2007, 04:26
Exactly which of the facts on the thailies site do you have trouble with, then?
I guess it would have to be the assumption that poor Thai AIDs sufferers should bear the brunt of the intransigence of governments (US or Thai) and billion dollar corporations ...
I'm fully aware of who usaforinnovation is, and that it is they who run thailies and, I am still waiting on you to supply any evidence that it was drug company lobbying, namely Abbott Laboratories, that caused the US to place Thailand onto its watch list of intellectual thieves.
Furthermore, you're not seriously suggesting that as a 'lobby group' only lies and half-truths can issue forth from it, but that people of your ilk on the other hand, are the font of all reason, truth and enlightenment on the mater. Yeah right.
By the way, I'm pleased to see you've finally shown us your true credentials as an anti-business true believing Marxist-Leninist. (I suppose you really care about the environment too) All of course means all your arguments will be highly balanced. :puke:
Hmmm
May 12th, 2007, 10:05
I'm fully aware of who usaforinnovation is, and that it is they who run thailies and, I am still waiting on you to supply any evidence that it was drug company lobbying, namely Abbott Laboratories, that caused the US to place Thailand onto its watch list of intellectual thieves.
So big pharma spent US$155 million over 18 months on IP and price lobbying, employing 1100 lobbyists, and it had no effect ?
Their shareholders must be outraged !
http://www.publicintegrity.org/rx/report.aspx?aid=823
GPO may sue US lobby firm - Bangkok Post
Says advert about local Aids drug misleading
APIRADEE TREERUTKUARKUL & ACHARA ASHAYAGACHAT
Vichai Chokewiwat, chairman of the Government Pharmaceutical Organisation board, makes his point in response to the American lobby group USA for Innovation over Thailand's compulsory licensing of generic versions of the Aids drugs Efavirenz and Kaletra and the heart drug Plavix. тАФ SAROT MEKSOPHAWANNAKUL
The Government Pharmaceutical Organisation (GPO), the manufacturer of the local anti-Aids drug GPO-VIR, is considering suing USA for Innovation for publishing advertisements containing misleading details about the drug's efficacy and the country's move to override Aids drug patents through compulsory licensing. Vichai Chokewiwat, chairman of the GPO board, yesterday said he was in consultation with legal experts to prepare lawsuits against the group which lobbies for US pharmaceutical companies, in addition to the media that published the advertisement. ''We have to do something in response to such a provocative public relations campaign.
''What USA for Innovation claimed in its advertisement is not true and that damages the country,'' he said, adding that GPO-VIR's fact file, including the latest study on drug resistance, would be sent to the Foreign Affairs Ministry.
The full-page advertisement in English-language newspapers claimed that GPO-VIR was an HIV treatment copy. Citing a study by Mahidol University, it added that a high resistance rate of 39.6-58% was found among users.
Wasun Chantratita, chief of Mahidol University's virology and molecular microbiology unit, said the advert that cited his study was only half-true.
He said the study on drug resistance was conducted in 2000 _ two years before GPO-VIR even existed. It focused on three individual original drugs _ Nevirapine, Lamivudine (3Tc) and Stavudine (d4T) _ not GPO-VIR.
Full article http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/12May2007_news01.php
Police swoop uncovers fake brand-name clothing worth millions
Pattaya City News - Theerarak Sutthatiwongse
Pol Col Udom Chantrapitak, deputy superintendent of Chonburi police led a team of officers equipped with a search warrant to a house in Rungruang Park Village, Soi Khaotalo, during the afternoon of April 26 after investigations had revealed the premises were being used to store fake brand-name clothing.
Police officers inspect and confiscate the fake brand name goods as eveidence.
They found more than 50,000 items of counterfeit clothing bearing famous brand names such as Nike, LeviтАЩs and Boss, and arrested the owner of the house, 53-year-old Thaveesak Thiraphaichit. He admitted that he had been selling fake brand name clothing for more than two years, buying the items at Baiyoke Tower in Bangkok and storing them at his home before delivering them to clothes shops, department stores and markets around Pattaya.
Pol Col Udom said that Chonburi police had been investigating the case for more than a month. Thaveesak had been purchasing the items for about 150 baht each and selling them for between 500 and 1,000 baht each. The items discovered had a street value of about seven million baht.
There are signs of a tightening up on illegal copying of DVDs. I was in MBK at Look Maew where I buy many only to find that they have de-listed virtually all their movies with the exception og those with a G prefix ( G for Gay ) and D for Documentary. I asked if the Police had been and was told that they had been spoken to by someone big.
I still placed and order and then went to the adjacent DVD shop. There I bough half a dozen original (?) DVDs. They were 99 baht each and buy two get two free. Most of the stuff was Hollywood rubbish but I got Tee Hee! Lawrence after Arabia A Dangerous Man, Being Julia, The Keeper of Time ( muscles on the cover ) The King Maker (Thai) and Perhaps Love a Chinese Musical which I saw a bit of and it seem a delight. The assistant was not only handsome but charming and flirted delightfully.
My conscience still pricks when I recall buying a copy DVD of the LIfe of Buddha.
Clinton supports Thai patent-busting
New York (BangkokPost.com compiled from agency reports)
"No company will ever die because of the high price premium for Aids drugs in middle-income countries," said former US president Bill Clinton, with Public Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla at his side. "But patients may."
__________________________________________________ ___
Full story:
Former US President Bill Clinton, standing next to Public Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla, has endorsed recent decisions by Thailand and Brazil to break patents held by American pharmaceutical companies.
Mr Clinton said prices charged by drug companies are "exorbitant," despite claims by the companies they are reasonable.
"No company will ever die because of the high price premium for Aids drugs in middle-income countries," he said - "but patients may."
"I believe in intellectual property ... but that need not prevent us from getting essential life-saving medicines to those who need them in low- and middle-income countries alike."
Mr Clinton unveiled a deal with two Indian drugs firms to cheaply produce HIV/Aids drugs for 66 countries.
Mr Clinton said seven million people in those countries were in need of treatment for HIV/Aids, but could not afford it.
The Clinton Foundation's agreement will cut the cost of what are known as second line anti-retrovirals by 25-50%.
"Our announcement today responds directly to these challenges and sets the foundation not only for treatment for many more people but treatment that is more equitable, more affordable and more effective," he said.
Second line drugs are used when cheaper and earlier forms of treatment fail.
Mr Clinton says the prices of second-line treatments negotiated by his foundation will fall on average by 25 per cent in low-income countries and 50 per cent in middle-income countries.
His foundation has also negotiated a deal allowing the one-pill-a-day, first-line treatment to be made available for less than $US1 a day for developing countries, a 45 per cent saving on the current price in Africa.
"This drug represents the best chance that science has to offer," he said.
United States trade officials last week put Thailand on a watch list for countries inadequately safeguarding the intellectual property rights of American companies, noting the overriding of drug patents.
Tido von Shoen-Angerer, who leads the campaign by Doctors Without Borders for access to medicines, said he was unsure whether the recent developments would encourage developing countries to exercise their rights under international trade rules more freely to make or import generic drugs.
“There’s a strong chilling effect from the U.S. action,” he said.
Drug company officials yesterday strongly defended their policies of charging better-off developing countries more for Aids drugs than they did for poor countries, as well as the role of patents, which give inventor companies a monopoly on the sale of a drug, in stimulating the development of new drugs.
Jennifer Smoter, a spokeswoman for Abbott, said patents were needed “to ensure innovation in the future” but declined to respond to Mr. Clinton’s comment that “Abbott has been almost alone in its hard-line position here over what I consider to be a life and death matter.”
Bravo
A lovely Thai friend of mine is living Pattaya for several years with HIV+. While his doctor medical team is treating him for free, he needs to pay at the minimum 26,500 TBT monthly for medicines. Since several years I know some his doctors personally very well and they assure me, that most of there HIV+ patients are facing significantly higher medical bills.
Due to the fact that my Thai friend has such a lovely personality, he can bank on support of some friends without asking. Doctors and his pharmacist knew that there are several people are taking care for his expenses for medicines.
Most Thai people would dream of a monthly income of 26,500 TBT since they are lucky to earn in average monthly about 6,500 to 9,000 TBT (in Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, not in provinces…) But apart for this costs, they need to have some money for food, accommodation, living.
Private health insurances in Thailand do not pay for HIV+ treatment. They usually do not pay above a certain limit whish is reached very quickly. Reading the small print before signing an health insurance contract is very advisable.
According the state provided health scheme in Thailand, since a few month the costs medicine needed for HIV- treatment is free, if medicine is available. The number of hospitals treating HIV+ - patients is limited. The hospitals medical funds are budgeted. For an average Thai is nearly impossible to receive an optimal treatment.
The daily wage in Thailand is in average clearly below 200 TBT and the gross of people are not getting paid anything near this amount. They have to live on this amount and even need to feed there families with it.
Even a 50 percent “discount” as reached by the Clinton Foundation is an absurdity by itself; even this lower price are by fare to high for many patients. All this arrangement is limiting the discount third world is asking for to a certain level, avoiding further compromises.
It’s just the greed of managers and shareholders of certain pharmaceutical trusts who are acting in a disgusting way in order to fill there own pockets. Costs for R & D are been earned back already. They do not spend any own money of further research but use finding made by state employed Scientifics, like universities labs if they adapt formula’s. Adapting formulas is rarely done. The content of drugs is very cheap to make.
Costs for R & D are been earned back already. They do not spend any own money of further research but use finding made by state employed Scientifics, like universities labs if they adapt formulaтАЩs. Adapting formulas is rarely done. The content of drugs is very cheap to make.
Source for this info?
Aunty
May 12th, 2007, 19:32
ItтАЩs just the greed of managers and shareholders of certain pharmaceutical trusts who are acting in a disgusting way in order to fill there own pockets. Costs for R & D are been earned back already. They do not spend any own money of further research but use finding made by state employed Scientifics, like universities labs if they adapt formulaтАЩs. Adapting formulas is rarely done. The content of drugs is very cheap to make.
You're an idiot.
Abbott backs off, wants to continue sale of Aids drug
Bangkok Post
Abbott Laboratories, one of the three pharmaceutical giants whose drugs face compulsory licensing in Thailand, has backed off from its threats, saying it wants to continue selling its HIV/Aids drugs here.
Previously, the firm planned to withhold sale of a heat-stable form of Aluvia, its HIV/Aids drug, as punishment for Thailand's compulsory licensing policy.
Representatives of Abbott made the company's stance known yesterday while meeting with Food and Drug Administration (FDA) secretary-general Siriwat Tiptaradol. The FDA also met with representatives from Sanofi-Aventis yesterday.
Abbott's new offer was made on condition that Thailand would not impose compulsory licensing on Aluvia and that the price of the drug, at 3,488.20 baht per person per month, or about 34,000 baht (US$1,000) per person per year, would not come down any further.
Dr Siriwat said the FDA would forward Abbott's offer to Public Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla. Abbott's Aluvia price will be compared with the prices quoted by India's generic drug maker, Matrix Laboratories, which produces a generic version of Aluvia at 24,324 baht (US$695) per person per year (or 2,027 baht per person per month).
Matrix made the offer to Thailand and 66 other countries which have agreed to purchase the generic drug, together with the US-based Clinton Foundation.
On the two-hour negotiations with Sanofi-Aventis which holds the patent for the heart disease drug Plavix, Dr Siriwat said the drug giant proposed a one-year project to give patients greater access to the medicine. During the one-year period, the firm would make available 3.4 million tablets of Plavix to 34,000 patients.
The scheme would automatically reduce Plavix's price from 90 baht to about 27 baht per tablet. The FDA will forward Sanofi-Aventis' offer to the health minister, said Dr Siriwat. He added that his committee will invite the pharmaceutical firms to discuss prices again on June 1.
Meanwhile, Vichai Chokewiwat, chairman of the Public Health Ministry's panel on compulsory licensing, said that if the Public Health Ministry chose to buy drugs at prices higher than offered by other sources, it must be able to give the public a good reason to justify its decision.
"If we buy the drug [the generic version of Aluvia] from India at US$695 per person per year, next time, we might get the drug at a lower price, probably as low as US$500. If we buy it from the US firm at US$1,000 now, we might have to continue buying it at US$1,000 forever."
Bangkok Post
I think a skirmish in the battle for life saving drugs for poor sick people. Who will pay in the end ? The fortunate rich.
Thailand turns giant pharma killer
By Marwaan Macan-Markar - Asia Times
BANGKOK - By standing up to pressure from "big pharma" over cheap anti-AIDS drugs, Thailand may have created an opening in global trade rules that will permit developing countries to more readily break patents in times of public health emergencies.
The fact that the United States government has clarified that Bangkok had not violated any laws under the special provisions of the Trade-Related aspects of Intellectual Property (TRIPS) of the World Trade Organization (WTO) is significant.
Last week, the US Trade Representative's office (USTR) placed Thailand on a watch list of countries that had, in general, violated intellectual property rights. Thailand first broke the patent on the anti-retroviral (ARV) drug Efavirenz, produced by US pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp and Dohme, last November, and went on to do the same with Kaletra, another anti-HIV/AIDS drug from US pharma major Abbott Laboratories, as well as Plavis, a blood-thinner made by Sanofi-Aventis, in January.
Noticeably, there was lack of precision in the USTR annual report on intellectual property protection regarding the Thai move to issue a compulsory license (CL) early this year to secure cheaper alternatives for Kaletra, the drug marketed by Abbott, from India.
''While the US acknowledges a country's ability to issue such licenses in accordance with WTO rules, the lack of transparency and due process exhibited in Thailand represents a serious concern,'' states the report.
Far more strident in its criticism of Bangkok's efforts is a pro-pharmaceutical website launched on Monday to campaign against Thailand's pro-poor public health policies. "Thailand's actions violate the TRIPS agreement of the WTO," states the website, www.Thailies.com (http://www.Thailies.com). "WTO members are not allowed to issue compulsory licenses without full and transparent negotiations."
Since then the advantage secured by Thailand in testing - and winning - the right to use CLs has earned it praise from a broad section of activists, HIV patients and academics at home and abroad. "Other countries will feel more confident in issuing CLs, rather than threatening to issue them but not doing so due to pressure," said Paul Cawthorne of Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF), the international humanitarian agency, in an interview.
"This can set a precedent, a new understanding, about what developing countries can do under TRIPS," added Jacques-chai Chomthongdi, a researcher at Focus on the Global South, a Bangkok-based think-tank. "This is to the advantage of developing countries."
In fact, the US could not fault Thailand for violating trade rules since Bangkok's policies are compliant with TRIPS, he explained. "Thailand has acted within local and WTO laws."
Full article http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_ ... 5Ae02.html (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IE15Ae02.html)
Aunty
May 15th, 2007, 17:08
So Americans will have to pay high prices for their medicines, and even higher costs for their medical insurance, so that affluent fiscally irresponsible countries like Thailand can have a free ride at their expense. Bloody marvelous :puke:
Something will give eventually.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.