Beware peace and harmony its bad for your health

"You take this business of homosexuality. It raises tempers all over the world and even in America! If in fact it is true - and I've asked doctors this - that you are genetically born a homosexual, because that's the nature of the genetic random transmission of genes, you can't help it.

So why should we criminalise it? But thereтАЩs such a strong inhibition in all societies - Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Chinese societies and we are now confronted with a persisting aberration. But is it an aberration? It is a genetic variation. So what do we do? I think we pragmatically adjust."

Lee Kuan Yew: No Option but to Legalise Homosexual Sex.

Is Singapore's founding father a gin queen? Or have all those years under the closet finally paid of? And the third and final option, is the pink currency as persuasive as all that?
I love the way Asian leaders look to America for inspiration to stump the critics. Just last night I heard another "even in America" from the Hong Kong Gov. who want their own broadcasting channel to promote "peace and harmony", because I quote "even in America one has to learn the amendments at college".

Lee Kuan Yew is a living exponent of the ancient tradition practised by many Chinese emperors - abdicate in favour of a figurehead, and continue pulling the strings in the background without having to bother with the formalities of Court life. Deng Xiaoping was another exponent of this Asian practice. And Lee is equally an exponent of another dynastic form. Great Leader followed by (but in Singapore's case not immediately) Dear Leader

Singapore is the most Confuscist state remaining on this planet. While Confuscism had some merit for feudal Princes and may have some merits for small city states it is questionable whether it is a viable political philosophy for modern democratic states.

Lee Kuan Yew's self-importance sprang from his "success" in forging a modern city in unique circumstances - a hard working, education oriented population surrounded by peoples that espouse "Mai Pen Rai. Whether this "success" is persistent remains to be seen. It is certainly not generalisable and his habit of frequently advising other states how to run their business should be ignored. Regretably, Tony Blair never understood this an to some extent modelled "New Labour" on the People's Action Party.

The assertion that their is a gay gene is currently "not proven", so here we have a clear example of Mr. Yew's muddled thinking, even though it is in our best interests to play the old codger along.

[Aunty]

The assertion that their is a gay gene is currently "not proven", so here we have a clear example of Mr. Yew's muddled thinking, even though it is in our best interests to play the old codger along.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so while their is no known 'gay' gene as such, its lack of discovery to date does not by itself rule out its possible existence. In fact there is a lot of indirect evidence that sexuality is indeed a genetically determined trait, for both heterosexuality and homosexuality. So in that respect I think Lee Kaun Yews's thinking is a major progressive (and welcome) shift in an influential Asian leader. Good on him for being open to new ideas and understandings of the way the world really is, and not being stuck in a rigid box of bigotry and ignorance, lazy thinking and superstitions.

stuck in a rigid box of bigotry and ignorance, lazy thinking and superstitions.

The case for equal treatment of sexually oriented minorities should not rest on the assumption of a physical characteristic such as a "gay gene". A person's sexuality is equally valid whether they have come to them through nurture or some other situation. It could be argued that the search for the "gay gene" is the hunt of bigots who could not accept homosexuals unless such a thing existed.

[Aunty]

stuck in a rigid box of bigotry and ignorance, lazy thinking and superstitions.

The case for equal treatment of sexually oriented minorities should not rest on the assumption of a physical characteristic such as a "gay gene". A person's sexuality is equally valid whether they have come to them through nurture or some other situation. It could be argued that the search for the "gay gene" is the hunt of bigots who could not accept homosexuals unless such a thing existed.

Well in fact it should rest on that assumption because that is the reality. In fact it cuts right to the core of the false argument put forward by the bigots, typically born again Christians, that homosexuality is nothing more than a lifestyle choice. It isn't. Homosexuals are born gay just as much as heterosexuals are born straight. Ever hear any of your str8 friends talk about the day they chose to be str8? And as soon as people come to understand that (and how these things really do work) they will realise that discrimination against gays for their sexuality and expectations that somehow homosexuals can change, is as perverse and inappropriate as is discrimination against other genetic traits such as a person's skin colour, or that somehow, all people with blue eyes can miraculously turn them brown with the right choices and social conditioning. It just does't work that way.

It could be argued that the search for the "gay gene" is the hunt of bigots who could not accept homosexuals unless such a thing existed.And the search for the gay amoeba?

The problem with finding a "Gay Gene" is then they will try to "fix" it so there won't be anymore of these "poor sad sick gays" around. Remember the movie Gattaca? How many parents would bring a kid into the world knowing he/she would turn out to be gay? Heck, the Chinese are doing a booming business aborting female fetuses 'cause they want boys! Boy, wouldn't this issue give the right wing anti-abortion folks coniption fits!

On the other hand, gay/lesbian couples could genetically sort THEIR offspring to be gay so that might balance things.

Another problem with western "dialectic" thinking. Gay-ness is either due to Nature or to Nurture. If the former it can be "fixed" medically, if the latter, thru Psychology (and we all know what a horror that was).

Frankly Im more comfortable with the Buddhist thought that it is due to your past life and there is nothing you can do to change it, so don't make a fuss.

[Aunty]

The problem with finding a "Gay Gene" is then they will try to "fix" it so there won't be anymore of these "poor sad sick gays" around. Remember the movie Gattaca? How many parents would bring a kid into the world knowing he/she would turn out to be gay? Heck, the Chinese are doing a booming business aborting female fetuses 'cause they want boys! Boy, wouldn't this issue give the right wing anti-abortion folks coniption fits!

On the other hand, gay/lesbian couples could genetically sort THEIR offspring to be gay so that might balance things.

Another problem with western "dialectic" thinking. Gay-ness is either due to Nature or to Nurture. If the former it can be "fixed" medically, if the latter, thru Psychology (and we all know what a horror that was).

Frankly Im more comfortable with the Buddhist thought that it is due to your past life and there is nothing you can do to change it, so don't make a fuss.

There is no technology that permits such a 'correction' to take place, (if indeed there was a desire to do so) and of of course the 'gay' gene has yet to be found to be corrected in the first place. My view is that when the genes for sexuality are discovered and sequenced we will be in for fascinating insights and surprises. It's a little early yet to be lighting the torches and assembling the mob to march on Frankenstein's dark castle.

But besides, homosexuality is a normal sexuality, what's to fix?

[Sen Yai]

Lee Kuan Yew's self-importance sprang from his "success" in forging a modern city in unique circumstances - a hard working, education oriented population surrounded by peoples that espouse "Mai Pen Rai. Whether this "success" is persistent remains to be seen.

................... play the old codger along.

NorthStar, I don't think the circumstances were unique. His success was in developing that hard working, education oriented population from the very same people with the mai pen rai attitude that formed the original population.

Give the old codger credit where due.

Give the old codger credit where due.

Well it might be argued that the Hainanese and Cantonese were more education oriented than the Malay host population but OK, they may have been more laid back than their cousins in HK and Taiwan.

But let's not kid that there was anything gay liberal about the regime the Grand Old Man presided over. Only in very recent years, under his successors, have we seen a moderate toleration of gays in Singapore. Even then, it was dribbled out with chinese whispers because the regime became cogniscent that educated middle class gays were a major sector of the brain drain, choosing to live abroad because of the intolerable persecution.

One has to wonder whether the GOM's discovery of "scientific" cause was really just a face saving exercise for a reversal of policy.

"Society is getting more and more complicated and extreme, and throwing people out of balance socially and psychologically" says forensic expert Deng. SCPpost.

Is capitalism with its lack of the common good turning sour in the provinces?

Huang Yong 27, tall handsome nicely built man, fair skin and full moist lips, clear sparkling eyes and neatly cropped head of hair was arrested and shot dead for killing at least 18boys, 25 are still missing.
The 19th known boy, sixteen year old Zhang arrived home alive after being missing for a few weeks, dazed and dishevelled, with bloodied eyes and blackened bruises around his neck. Huang had let him go after he promised to be his life long partner so they cold look after each other in old age. Huang was promptly arrested and tried, fifteen days later he was shot dead.
Huang spent long hours in internet cafes in Pingyu a small county town close to his village home where he befriended his potential life long partners with tips on how to win computer games.

Villagers had to take it upon themselves to dig up Huangs back yard to try and find their missing young sons, hoping to find items of clothing and familiar objects, but only pieces of skulls and various limb bones were found, it was already too late to be able to get any information from Huang, so they were at a loss as to where to look next.

I found this story poignant to say the least.

... Thailand and Burma are among the most NON-homophobic nations on earth ...Rubbish. If you go to this link and click on the Thailand tab you will find two stories from the mainstream Thai press about homophobia in Thailand - http://au.geocities.com/homintern/

... Thailand and Burma are among the most NON-homophobic nations on earth ...Rubbish. If you go to this link and click on the Thailand tab you will find two stories from the mainstream Thai press about homophobia in Thailand - http://au.geocities.com/homintern/

And, try opening a gay bar in Burma and see what happens to you.

The other non-point was opening a gay bar in Burma. Foreigners are not allowed to live in Burma, much less open businesses there.

First of all, foreigners ARE allowed to live in Burma. There are many, many expats there.

Second, I wasn't referring necessarily to a foreigner opening a gay bar. Gay businesses, whether local or foreign-owned, are NOT allowed to exist in Burma. The current regime is very, very tough on gays, raiding places where they congregate and persecuting known gays -- especially those that cavort with foreigners. If that isn't homophobia, I don't know what is. Get your facts straight.

The other non-point was opening a gay bar in Burma. Foreigners are not allowed to live in Burma, much less open businesses there.

First of all, foreigners ARE allowed to live in Burma. There are many, many expats there.

Second, I wasn't referring necessarily to a foreigner opening a gay bar. Gay businesses, whether local or foreign-owned, are NOT allowed to exist in Burma. The current regime is very, very tough on gays, raiding places where they congregate and persecuting known gays -- especially those that cavort with foreigners. If that isn't homophobia, I don't know what is. Get your facts straight.

It's you that wants to get their facts straight. Although homosexuality is technically illegal and there are no gay bars, you will find gays are very open in Burma. For example, you will see as I did, obviously gay couples visiting temples together and holding hands. Because there is no gay scene as such, most gay life revolves around public places.

Farangs are frequently approached, cruised or flirted with by guys all over Yangon as my friend and I were, including in the famous Shewedagon Pagoda. Most Burmese are fascinated by foreigners and its very easy to strike up conversations and to meet other gay guys.

Although male homosexual relations are technically illegal as I have stated per the penal code of 1882-88, there have been no reports of any recent prosecutions under this legislation. Given what I believe as the prevailing social tolerance towards homosexuality, I suspect this is simply a left over British colonial legislation which no-one has ever bothered to change.


G.