Ladyboys, what are they good for?

[bucknaway]

Thailand seems to crank out a lot of ladyboys and I am wondering who is behind the demand for ladyboys? I am gay and I like all things masculine and when a guy puts on a dress it turns me off. I imagine that most gay men like men that look like men but still the ladyboy numbers grow.

Are the heterosexual men on holiday being given a copy? Are the Thai men keeping the real women for themselves giving the non-Thai the ladyboys and giggling "Same, same!"?

Many times I have been approached by ladyboys and I rebuff them, telling them that I am gay. Many have told me that they are gay also. but if they are now women and like men they are not gay they are now straight... Right???? But if they still have a ding-a-ling then they are on the fence I guess.

I don't think any real gay man would be interested in a ladyboy so it only stands to reason that it is the straight and bi men who are supporting the habits of the Thai ladyboys??

"Ladyboys, what are they good for?"

Live and let live I say and each to his own. My preferences for masculine muscular men are quite well known but when I post there are always a few who have to annnounce, for some inexplicable reason, that they don't. I find that quite rude. Now 'why do I like muscles and what are they good for' I don't know any more than I know why I am gay. I relax with the EST philosophy on sex " When you're hot you're hot - when you're not you're not."

I have a couple of friends who are very keen on ladyboys and go into raptures about their beauty. They find it hard to understand why I am not sexually attracted to them though I can often see that they are indeed very beautiful the same as I can see if a woman is very beautiful. I ask them that if the lady boys convertion to a woman is complete and they are indistinguishable from a real woman, are they still attracted and the answer is yes but there is always something about them. He subsequently admitted that he decided to take a girl home one night and found out in his room that it was a ladyboy.

I know of several people who are mad to find a ladyboy boy/girlfriend with a big willy to top them. That must be difficult to find. I know two go-go bar boys who are buffed and handsome and their preference is for lady-boys.

Why you feel that your choice is right and better or superior to that of others, and your disparagement of lady-boys, leaves me gasping at the monumental size of your ego and lack of empathy for your fellow human beings. I think that your interest in others is shown by the contents of your personal gallery http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... ser_id=259 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/album_personal.php?user_id=259) Shame on you - even if you were just writing to be arguementative.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1609/8571041/15911717/243520246.jpg

Mind you I cannot abide bald people - what are they good for!! Love you really kiss kiss!

[bucknaway]

Wowpow........... Take that chip off your cyber shoulder. I simply posted this topic to find out who the ladyboys are becoming ladyboys for?

No one is putting down ladyboys or the men or women who love them. We will do a post on muscleboys later. :)

So now... Give me a hug.... :geek:

Sorry chuck but you can't wriggle out of what you wrote by pretending it was an academic genuine enquiry. There are too many pejorative statements. I feel certain that you are a Katoeyphobe and need help. I think I may have to lock you in Ti-fanny show for a week.

http://www.tiffany-show.co.th/TiffPicGa ... allery.htm (http://www.tiffany-show.co.th/TiffPicGal/picture_gallery.htm)

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1609/8571041/15911717/243523808.jpg "Heelo Buck you wanna fu@k?"

I'm sure there many reasons why people are or become katoey. I have a female European Buddhist colleague who tells me the story of her son/daughter. Apparently the ovaries/testicles were indeterminently positioned and the appellation "boy" was arbitrarily chosen by a doctor. She now lives as a girl but has had to seek the support of the Student's Union to retain her room in a girl's house/dorm at her Uni.

One newspaper I saw recently seemed to be suggesting that some Thai adopt lipstick in order to avoid the draft.

I found the film "Beautiful Boxer" a bit of a tear jerker but I must say, I tend to avoid the company of katoey as those that I have met tend towards bi-polar behaviour and I like to surround myself with calm. Which is why I come to this board. 555.

Humph! I agree Wowpow. I think Bucky wants to know what good lady boys are for in the sack with your average gay punter from the West? He sees them as a commodity but cannot make sense of his own prejudices. Probably not much in the bed Bucky, but rest assured there are plenty of straight Japanese and Indian businessmen amongst others begging for more.

[bucknaway]

No worry. I am just making conversation on the board.... If you think I have a phobia or am anti laadyboy and want to talk about it, that is fine with me. I don't mind sharing my thoughts and feelings.

Lets start with this. In Thailand, ladyboys are a thing of wonder to me. I look at them but I don't get to close. When I look at them I am looking to see if I can see the boy underneath who is now hidden by the woman on the outside. Why is it that I don't want to be close to a ladyboy? Here in Delaware, there were and are a lot of drag queens and I learned at a very young age that they were not the sort to mingle with and I found it best if they did not even know my name.

In Thailand I don't feel the need to befriend a strange ladyboy. Why you asK? Because I am gay and I like men that look like men. I like lean men, regular men, young men (24 and up and I like some older men (60 and younger). I don't like women. Well I like women but I don't let them take up any of my quality time. Only may spare-spare-spare time.

If you take the ladyboy out the dress and if he is not swishy than it is possible he and I can share some time together, but it would be a shame for him to transform himself simply to hang around me... He should be free to be himself and I should be free to like guys that look like a guy. :)

[bucknaway]

I know that there are many biological reasons why many guys become women. Do you think all the ladyboys in Thailand are ladyboy by natures pull or by their own human reasons?



I'm sure there many reasons why people are or become katoey. I have a female European Buddhist colleague who tells me the story of her son/daughter. Apparently the ovaries/testicles were indeterminently positioned and the appellation "boy" was arbitrarily chosen by a doctor. She now lives as a girl but has had to seek the support of the Student's Union to retain her room in a girl's house/dorm at her Uni.

One newspaper I saw recently seemed to be suggesting that some Thai adopt lipstick in order to avoid the draft.

I found the film "Beautiful Boxer" a bit of a tear jerker but I must say, I tend to avoid the company of katoey as those that I have met tend towards bi-polar behaviour and I like to surround myself with calm. Which is why I come to this board. 555.

[bucknaway]

When I go to Phuket, I may just take a ladyboy for a test drive just for the hell of it. (viagra)...


Humph! I agree Wowpow. I think Bucky wants to know what good lady boys are for in the sack with your average gay punter from the West? He sees them as a commodity but cannot make sense of his own prejudices. Probably not much in the bed Bucky, but rest assured there are plenty of straight Japanese and Indian businessmen amongst others begging for more.

Strange Buckeye, I always thought you were a ladyman under that desperate macho exterior, seems I was right. The first step is the hardest, but it should be plain-sailing, for you at least, the rest of the way.
Go into a department store (dont need to be choosy not on your budget) follow your nose until you reach the cosmetics dept, there reach for the lipsticks and start gently fondling a lip stick shaft. Rub it up until the red head pushes up against your lower lip, then pause and test a bit on the back of your hand for colour compatibility, after you are satisfied, slowly make your way to the assistant and ask her what she thinks, because you are bound to make a few mistakes in the beginning and you dont want to look like more of a pillock than you already are on your first attempt. She will gush and sweep you up into her heavily scented and powdered bosom taking you back to your semi secure childhood, before you know it you are there, with a bright shiny new pair of smackers and some rouge to match.
ps-dont fight it let go of your feelings

[bucknaway]

I love your posts..... What color is the sun on your planet? :drunken:


Strange Buckeye, I always thought you were a ladyman under that desperate macho exterior, seems I was right. The first step is the hardest, but it should be plain-sailing, for you at least, the rest of the way.
Go into a department store (dont need to be choosy not on your budget) follow your nose until you reach the cosmetics dept, there reach for the lipsticks and start gently fondling a lip stick shaft. Rub it up until the red head pushes up against your lower lip, then pause and test a bit on the back of your hand for colour compatibility, after you are satisfied, slowly make your way to the assistant and ask her what she thinks, because you are bound to make a few mistakes in the beginning and you dont want to look like more of a pillock than you already are on your first attempt. She will gush and sweep you up into her heavily scented and powdered bosom taking you back to your semi secure childhood, before you know it you are there, with a bright shiny new pair of smackers and some rouge to match.

[bucknaway]

"I think that your interest in others is shown by the contents of your personal gallery http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... ser_id=259 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/album_personal.php?user_id=259) Shame on you - even if you were just writing to be arguementative.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1609/8571041/15911717/243520246.jpg

Mind you I cannot abide bald people - what are they good for!! Love you really kiss kiss!

I have tried to tone down my online image because I am getting older and my old pictures may end up haunting me with memories of my online past...

Well we all know who you love best bucknaway.

It is quite important to separate sexual attraction and social attraction. Like you I am not sexually attracted to ladyboys and even a hint of effeminacy puts me off. Thats something hotwired inside ones brain and impossible to change. Socially I am embarassed by ladyboys - something I must have learned, probably during my decades in the closet. Having said that one of my best friends now used to be in a leading London Transvestite trio and still hankers for a frock. Often European transvestites out of drag seem quite butch.

What I am not so keen on is transvestite shows where the whole point is to get beautifully dressed and made-up. The show needs to have talent as well and/or amusement. I am a fan of Khun New who appears at Boyz Boyz boyz but she is now a very beautiful woman as well as a talented performer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v27/wowpow/New.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v27/wowpow/FestivalPattayaMrPGF06KhunNew.jpg

[bucknaway]

yeah, yeah, yeah.... I love me most and i know it... We all know it... Big deal... Paul loves Paul the most.... Now that we got that out of the way......

it seems your issues run deeper than mine, but since I want to talk about ladyboys you feel the need to have a cyber fight with me? Well your just going to have to have a fight of one because there is nothing here for me to fight about.

And like you, I have a friend or two who happens to wear a dress. Some friends we don't choose..... I may only speak to her 2 or 3 times a year but she is a much a friend to me as any of my other friends.

"I think that your interest in others is shown by the contents of your personal gallery http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... ser_id=259 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/album_personal.php?user_id=259) Shame on you - even if you were just writing to be arguementative.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1609/8571041/15911717/243520246.jpg

Mind you I cannot abide bald people - what are they good for!! Love you really kiss kiss!

I have tried to tone down my online image because I am getting older and my old pictures may end up haunting me with memories of my online past...

If thats not a ladyman I will throw away my stilettos and scorch my fish nets. I get very caught up in the whole emotional display of ladyboys living the woman they were born to be. And I adore their affection, it makes me feel all man, though that in itself is also not all entirely true. Buckeye I am affraid your time is up, I have a sick sense for these sorts of things.

[bucknaway]

So you think I would look good as a woman? :flower:

So you think I would look good as a woman? :flower:

No I think you will feel better as a woman. :happy5:

[bucknaway]

:cherry:well don't spend all day thinking about me. :cherry:

It would probably be a pretty easy conversion. I understand that Buckie's anus is already as loose as that of a typical woman's vagina of his age. I believe Borat calls it the "wizard's sleeve" look.

Mind you I cannot abide bald people - what are they good for!!

Is that why you keep having those hair transplants at Yanhi resulting in those god-awful corn rows on your head?

Anyone else noticed that Bucknaway is always sweet in his postings, no matter how hostile others are in their replies...?

So you think I would look good as a woman? :flower:

Maybe Buck, perhaps as one of the witches in Macbeth :flower: (Only kidding, I think?) :love7:

[Aunty]

What happens to Katoey's when they get old? (40+). Where do they go? How do they live? With who do they live? Husbands? An Ashram of aging Katoeys?

I think Bucky you may be confusing sexual attraction with gender identity? Lady boys although born biological males, don't themselves identify with or feel male. They feel like a women, and the phrase you often hear from them is that they feel like a women who was born in a man's body. Once they have started to dress and live as a women, it's meaningless to think of them as a boy, (they are women) or to try and see the boy inside, that boy never really existed. More so once they start on hormone treatments and have had a sex-change op. But of course they can't shed their Y chromosome, so they'll always be somewhat atypical looking and functioning women.

As you are not attracted to women, why would you want to sleep with a lady-boy? Makes no sense to me.

[bucknaway]

Double Bubble, toil and trouble, fire burn and cauldron bubble!
Oh you are so in trouble once I finish making this foot bath! LOL :bom:



So you think I would look good as a woman? :flower:

Maybe Buck, perhaps as one of the witches in Macbeth :flower: (Only kidding, I think?) :love7:

[bucknaway]

Thanks..... I don't see a need for a cyber war of words. Besides, who wants to be on WowPows bad side? Not me! That is for sure buddy boy.... :)


Anyone else noticed that Bucknaway is always sweet in his postings, no matter how hostile others are in their replies...?

[bucknaway]

Well Aunty, your post should be titled "Common Sense" but if there are many more posts like this it will kill the topic! LOL

As far as sleeping with a ladyboy.... Well, Thailand is known for the ladyboys just as Philadelphia is known for cheese steaks. When you go to Philly (Philadelphia) you have to have a cheese steak just to say you did. Well I am almost tempted to try a ladyboy. I don't think I will but I might.... Who knows... Maybe if the planets are all in position and the air is pushing the right breeze and the ocean is at the right level of calmness.... Than who knows.... :idea:


What happens to Katoey's when they get old? (40+). Where do they go? How do they live? With who do they live? Husbands? An Ashram of aging Katoeys?

I think Bucky you may be confusing sexual attraction with gender identity? Lady boys although born biological males, don't themselves identify with or feel male. They feel like a women, and the phrase you often hear from them is that they feel like a women who was born in a man's body. Once they have started to dress and live as a women, it's meaningless to think of them as a boy, (they are women) or to try and see the boy inside, that boy never really existed. More so once they start on hormone treatments and have had a sex-change op. But of course they can't shed their Y chromosome, so they'll always be somewhat atypical looking and functioning women.

As you are not attracted to women, why would you want to sleep with a lady-boy? Makes no sense to me.

Its interesting how much heated debate this topic always brings up. On the message boards devoted to Ladyboys there is always someone asking "So are you guys gay or what???" Of course it always brings howls of protest with at least 50% saying there's NO WAY they are gay because they could never go with a guy! And here on a Gay board the inference is the opposite - you can't be gay because they look like girls. Funny the lengths people will go to to try to put everyone in a box with a label on it.

For the record: I consider myself Gay and not bi. I was with a ladyboy (boobs and big tackle) for 1 1/2 years but we broke up due to the "bipolar" issues due to a combination of hormones and party drugs (yabba and xtasy). Current BF (see avatar) is a ladyboy "wannabe". My personal preference, most of the time, is for "fem-boys" and not ladyboys as such, but I've also been know to have a thing for guys with copper-red curly hair and white skin (go figure).

If I try to put my finger on what the attraction is, I think I would say its the transgressive nature that makes it exciting. Thats the only thing that there seems to be in common with ladyboy-lovers since they are all over the map sexually.

As to the question of what's driving these boys to become girls, I would say that a large portion (50%) are what we would term transexual and really want to be girls. Eventually they will have full sex changes and live as female. Most of the rest are in more of an expierimental mode and are excited by the scene and are young guys working out their sexual identity. They are more what we would consider "tranvestites" and very effeminite gays. Very, very few are in it only for the money or to get out of military service.

To answer Bucky's original post: What is driving the demand for Ladyboys is the ladyboys themselves. They are being who they want to be.


...but if they are now women and like men they are not gay they are now straight... Right???? But if they still have a ding-a-ling then they are on the fence I guess....I don't think any real gay man would be interested in a ladyboy so it only stands to reason that it is the straight and bi men who are supporting the habits of the Thai ladyboys??

Bucky, you are in the middle of an Aristotelian Angst. Try to get past the Western idea that everything has to be categorized and put in a box with a name. The older you get and the more things you see in this crazy world the more you'll realize that 2,500 year old paradigm just isn't up to it anymore.

To answer some other questions/comments:


What happens to Katoey's when they get old? (40+). Where do they go? How do they live? With who do they live? Husbands? An Ashram of aging Katoeys? ...
Some will go back to their hometowns and open shops, some will stay in the Big City and get jobs as travel agents, accountants etc. Many will work in beauty salons. Some will become mama-sans (HORRORS!) or open their own bar or karaoke joint. Some will even get "married" to a Thai or, believe it or not, Farang boyfriend. Some, sadly, will commit suicide.
Most end up becoming old gay "Aunties", Aunty, to the young gay boys just starting out.


When I go to Phuket, I may just take a ladyboy for a test drive just for the hell of it. (viagra)...
Now you're talking Bucky! No need to go to Phuket. In Pattaya try Jenny Star bar on Walking Street. Or maybe Hi Boss bar on Soi 6 for the Big Girls. Also Stringfellows and Club 131. There are at least half a dozen others scattered about. In Bangkok go to Nana Plaza to Obsessions, Temptations or Cassanova (but stay out of Patpong-bad rep).


I know of several people who are mad to find a ladyboy boy/girlfriend with a big willy to top them. That must be difficult to find.
Not at all Wowpow. They are very much in demand and very popular. I'm not sure if I can post a link to dirty pics here but if you want to see what I mean you can google "Mint, Ladyboy" and "Nancy, Ladyboy" to see 2 of the more famous/infamous. Nancy, alas, is now retired and living in Australia but Mint is still working freelance in Bangkok.
Again, I think its the trangressive nature of the thing (having a hung ladyboy with boobs top you) that is the attraction.

COME ON BOYS! FREE YOUR MINDS! The rest will follow.... :nike:

[Mi Cow Chai-old]

I was curious about lady boys so had sex with a one from Jenney Bar. Her cock was bigger than my bf who is very much a muscle man, he was jealous.
She was very beautiful and the sex was great. don't knock till you try it.

[bucknaway]

Maybe I will put up a post searching for a 3 way where one of the 3 is a ladyboy and see what offers come my way. When I am in Thailand I am willing to try almost anything.... I won't try drugs or poppers or let myself be tied-up by a stranger but I am willing to do some things that would make Ms Sanitree gasp and clutch her pearls.... :geek:

[rincondog]

There is a spanish film titled 20 Centimeters, which kinda covers the topic. It is more of a Spanish ladyboy not Thai. However, there is some insight into what ladyboys might want to become. Film isn't great, however, it is watchable. It is out on DVD. I agree with Kenc about people categorizing everyone into neat boxes. You would think a gay forum members would be more open to all the possibilities that do actually exist in this world.

[bucknaway]

I think we are open minded for the most part. We are able to talk about it where everyone has something to offer from their own perspective. I am enjoying this.

[Aunty]

What happens to Katoey's when they get old? (40 ). Where do they go? How do they live? With who do they live? Husbands? An Ashram of aging Katoeys? ... ...............................Most end up becoming old gay "Aunties", Aunty, to the young gay boys just starting out.


Hmmm, now there's a thought! :idea: :cheers:

Slightly off topic perhaps? I remember being a volunteer on the Gay Switchboard in Aberdeen (sunny Scotland) in the early eighties when the TV or TS callers were a big topic of debate for us. The lesbians who worked on the phones found it really hard to handle men wanting to talk to them about makeup and clothes (the women on the lines were all butch) and as gay men we found it equally hard to deal with men who wanted to dress as women or to become women. In the end we agreed to carry on supporting these callers because they had few other options for support.

The kathoey in Thailand are often so beautiful, but I certainly have no sexual attraction to them. As with others here, I prefer men who look like men. And Thai men are wonderful too - at least sexually. I found life hard enough as a gay teenager, but at least most of the time I was invisible. The boy I admired most appeared at the all boys Grammar School with painted fingernails and a feather boa over the uniform. They beat him almost every day, and every day he was back at school swishing through the playground until they caught him again. My greatest sadness is that I never dared befriend him out of fear for myself.

Like Bucknaway I find it hard still to understand the complexity of human sexuality, it took me long enough to deal with my own personal version!!!

[lonelywombat]

homitern gave a link to a blog Slade. This was an interesting observation he made.

Actually the whole thing is a damn good read, there are 5 parts look for the numbers 1-5 at bottom of page

http://www.slate.com/id/2163104/entry/2163241/

"One of the perennial questions about Thailand is why ladyboys (kathoey) are so much more accepted and such a bigger part of the culture than anywhere else on the planet. In Bangkok 8, which is by far the most entertaining book ever written about Thailand, Buddhism is offered as the answer; specifically, the idea that since each soul has gone through multiple reincarnations as both a male and a female, gender distinction is blurrier than in other faiths".

"One of the perennial questions about Thailand is why ladyboys (kathoey) are so much more accepted and such a bigger part of the culture than anywhere else on the planet. In Bangkok 8, which is by far the most entertaining book ever written about Thailand, Buddhism is offered as the answer; specifically, the idea that since each soul has gone through multiple reincarnations as both a male and a female, gender distinction is blurrier than in other faiths".

It's not like Thailand is the only Buddhist country in the world. So where are the kratoeys in Sri Lanka, Tibet, etc., etc.?

"As to the question of what's driving these boys to become girls, I would say that a large portion (50%) are what we would term transexual and really want to be girls. Eventually they will have full sex changes and live as female"

I am not sure it matters why people are lady-boys anymore than why people are gay or not gay. I do notice that many "lady-boys" prefer to have "lady-boy" as friends and many are in a very committed relationship with a gay man.

It seems that this "fascination" with "lady-boys" seems to payoff as there are large crowds at Tiffany and Alcazar judging by the number of tourist buses I see when I drive by

[TrongpaiExpat]

The BF and I were taking a taxi back home from the bus station in Bangkok and the driver was one of the chatty types, the conversation went something like this:

--Where were you visiting?
--Ko Samet
--Oh, very nice, how much for one night?
--3,800B in a bungalow
--Oh, very expensive, who is the farang?
--my boyfriend
-- very good but if you want to keep him you should get breasts
--he not like lady-boys
--oh, no? I though all farangs like lady-boys, they all go to these lady boy shows. You should at least grow your hair long for the farang. I am pretty sure all farangs really like lady-boys.
--does the farang speak Thai
--yes, some
the driver at this point did not say another word.

Hi

I'm a first time poster, but would like to say I like this forum and all things gay....including the ladyboys

[Jetsam]

Hi

I'm a first time poster, but would like to say I like this forum and all things gay....including the ladyboys

now you are a two times poster with two times the same message http://images.fok.nl/s/frown.gif

Lady boys can suck good dick (smoke) and they are raunchier in bed as opposed to the real thai girls. Also, they let you fuck them in the ass, which most girls won't do.

anyway, that's my two cents.

:bounce:

Yes, I agree with the post above.

Honey, you hit the nail on the head. Katoeys get their trade from straight guys who are fed up with thai bar hos.

The punters get their their cocks ravenously sucked, their balls and assshole liked, and then get the to fuck their tight asshole or pussy as hard as they like and for as long as they can keep it up - or the other way around. Up to you!

Whats more - both enjoy!!!!!!!

I love Jenny Star Bar on walking Street - Not only the thumping music and vibe but I love to watch them prowling around outside all slutty and cheap but looking a million times better than most real short assed skanky bar and beer bar hos!!!

Gay men like men that look like real guys. Otherwise you like women and are attracted to them.

Hi

I'm a first time poster, but would like to say I like this forum and all things gay....including the ladyboys

Welcome to the forum pathway, look forward to seeing more of your posts.

Choc Dee,

G.