Phuket Pride Festival 2007 all the pictures live now.

[Boxer]

All the pictures live on my site now.

[jinks]

Thanks Boxer.

If there's actually something to be proud of this year -- I mean, other than drag queens, prostitutes, sex tourists, and ecstasy-crazed circuit boys -- be sure to let us know.

I'm feeling a bit chatty today, so I will bite (although nowadays rising to the occasion to try to engage in an actual rational discussion on this board is beyond any interest I can muster). I think BG's response is one that deserves an answer, not for his sake, but for the eyes of the many gay adult men who do read this board.

I think BG meant his comments as a slur to the gays who travel to Thailand, live and work in Thailand, and to the gay community in general. His are not the first such sentiments of this kind on this board or in any gay community around the world that engages in Gay Pride events. Many holier-than-thou gay men who (IMO) desperately long to be seamlessly assimilated into the straight community and have the straights Good Housekeeping seal of approval always bemoan Gay Pride events and the elements in our gay community that such events bring to the public eye. How and why should we as gay people be proud of such unsavory denizens as drag queens, and prostitutes, and leather men, and queeny boys, and drug users, and sex tourists? What an affront these kind of gay people are to all of us normal gay people who just want to fit in and get along.

Well, count me as one of those gay people who are proud of many things that these lower class gays represent, and who are proud of some of the things it really does mean to be gay and that often are really only celebrated during Gay Pride events.

I am proud that as gay men and women that we lead the fight for gender equality and that we realize that gender identity is not just black and white.

I am proud that as gay people we love to celebrate and to be entertained and to have a great time. I love being part of a community that has a reputation for throwing the best parties and having the most fun.

I am proud that my community is no longer willing to sit quietly on the back of the bus without the same rights given to our straight counterparts, and I want to celebrate that empowerment everywhere we are allowed to (even on the streets and the beaches of Thailand). I am overjoyed that those members of our community who first stood up to discrimination and harassment, the drag queens, are still at the forefront of our struggle for equality forty years later and that during Gay Pride, we as a gay community give them their pride of place at the front of our celebrations.

I am proud that in Thailand that the katoeys or lady boys were at the front of changing the attitudes of mainstream and rural Thais to become more accepting of those who are gay and gender challenged, and I am overjoyed that these people are forefront of gay equality and gay pride in Thailand.

I am proud that our community is at the forefront of sexual liberation and that we challenge the religious precepts that want the world to view sex acts between consenting adults as something immoral or sinful. I am so glad that so many in the gay community are able to freely express themselves sexually and do not view sex as something dirty.

I am proud that the gay community is one of such diversity and that we challenge people around the world to accept diversity. Gay people are not all the same, and I love that during Gay Pride we celebrate all of our community: twinks and bears, leather men and sissy boys, dykes and fems. We celebrate our gay grannies and our gay fatties, our gay youth and our gay entertainers.

I am proud that our gay community leads the world in traveling to far flung places and exploring new communities and learning about new cultures. I am proud that we are risk takers and adventurers.

I am proud that so many of our gay community are sexually active and take joy in having sex and see it as one of the best parts of being alive and being human. Sexual repression in communities leads to awful outcomes, and IMO, those communities that are the most sexually open are also the ones with less crime and shame and judgment. I love that so many gay men are not ashamed of being sexually active and adventurous at any age and seek out a variety of sexual partners and sexual experiences.

I am proud that we are a community that is known for seeking to live life at its fullest and to take part in the many experiences of life. Yes, sometimes our excesses can be overwhelming, but IMO, better to have lived life in excess than to life a live of boredom, and denial, and quiet desperation.

I am proud that as a community we are probably best known for looking good and feeling good. Looking gay is what it seems the world wants to do nowadays. Many of our young men are just freaking hot, and I love to see them at Gay Pride, celebrating life, having fun, and being proud.

So, I am more than happy to look at Boxer's photos of drag queens, prostitutes, sex tourists, and ecstasy-crazed circuit boys. They are all part of a worldwide gay community that thrives on fun, sexual liberation, flawlessness, diversity, and a continued fight for equal rights. I am proud of almost every part of my gay community, and I hope to always join in whatever celebration I can to show my pride. Besides, gay parties are the best anywhere, and I plan until I take my last breath on having as good a time as possible in this life!

Pete

Yes, they are "part" of the gay community. But though only a small part, they are the only ones visible at these "pride" events.

It would be like the equivalent of having a Black Pride parade, and having only pimps, rappers, and gang-bangers show up.

[Bob]

Having attended a gay pride event or two (including events in Bangkok and Pattaya), it would be my opinion that the vast majority of the attendees are pretty classy people. And I've never heard them feel compelled to make themselves feel superior by slamming anybody (but, then again, BG, they have more class than you).

So, BG, perhaps you could explain why it is you think you're so much better than a drag queen or male prostitute. Only in your mind, Boy, only in your mind.

So, BG, perhaps you could explain why it is you think you're so much better than a drag queen or male prostitute. Only in your mind, Boy, only in your mind.

Never said I was better. Just said that they do not represent anything to do with me, nor do they fill me with pride in any way.

[Brad the Impala]

Of course you are not represented if you don't go! Take you friends too. Have a BG float, peopled by all the people that you feel proud to be represented by.

Among all those drag queens, boy prostitutes, and ecstasy-crazed circuit boys? You've gotta be kidding.

Pete, Thank you for being in a chatty mood, and for celebrating your pride in who you are and who we are as gay people.

The UK is at an interesting point now, with the legalisation of gay relationships (civil partnerships) and adoption by gay people, we seem to have got there. Sir Ian Mackellan said on a TV interview that we have achieved equality, everything we have campaigned for. I was one of those activists, dressed as a nun - Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence - I was there on the marches and the protest actions outside the Houses of Parliament in London. I am proud of the actions we took to make the press take notice of the discrimination against gay people in the UK.

As a nurse at the height/depth of the AIDS crisis I was proud of our community, as we organised ourselves to care for our own, delivering meals, taking people to hospital appointments, visiting people in hospital, organising funerals without religious content for those who wanted them. Caring for those left behind, bereaved.

We must remember as Pete said, that it was the Drag Queens who led us at Stonewall all those years ago. Thailand does not have much of an activist community, cultures are different and have their own ways of going about things. We must be wary of imposing western cultural concepts of activism where they may just not fit. But equally the injustice and discrimination faced by gay people in Thailand is wrong, and we shold do whatever we can to help challenge that. Pride Festivals have always been a big party, but also a chance to be visible and remind the powers that be that we are here, and we are not going to go away quietly and suffer in silence.

One of the things we can do as older gay men who remember the days when we went to more funerals of friends than parties, is to always practice and teach safer sex to the young men we meet. And maybe we can do more to take care of those gay men who are infected and have minimal access to care and treatment in Thailand.

Kumbaya, kumbayaaaaaa!

What Pride? From what I can see, it's a bunch of ladyboys and straight go-go boys pimping commercial 'gay' venues with the geriatric albino crowd cheering on.

Is the ordinary gay Thai guy represented at all?

EXACTLY my point, Yimsuai. Of course, it's all our own fault as "normal" gay men who wouldn't be seen anywhere near one of these fiascos -- not the way the damned things are planned and organized.

[Bob]

as "normal" gay men

That too was my point, BG. Who crowned you as "normal" (if that's true, god or buddha help the world?!?).
Maybe it's just that the "normal" types just don't have the balls to be up front about their feelings or sexuality.

I don't have a problem at all with likes or dislikes (I also am not attracted to the campy crowd) but I have to give them credit for being who they want to be. And, while I don't prefer them personally, I don't feel I have any right to try to put them down. The operative word might be "toleration."

In my opinion, it's been the campy and "in your face" gays who have had the balls to stand up in public all over the world and who likely have done the most to achieve some civil rights for gays everywhere. While some of the outfits and behavior also makes me personally cringe, I'm not going to criticize them. Instead, they get my admiration and thanks.

[Boxer]

Day three up and running waiting for Day 4 the Parade to pass by....been and gone now pics are live.

[TrongpaiExpat]

I agree whole-heartily with tolerance and acceptance of everyone; however, I do not agree that these Pride events had much influence on civil rights.

The men and women responsible for civil rights for gays don't wear sequins, leather or dress in drag. They wear suits and ties and fought for our rights in the courts.

In USA things have changed for the better in the past 30 years, still a way to go, but it had little to do with Pride.

I hated to see the western concept of Pride come to Thailand. The Thai culture was already quite accepting and tolerant of those who are different, what was the point of Pride?

After a few years, and more and more each year, Thailand Pride is not much more then gay(mostly farang) business promotions. Pride in Thailand is about money. Just my opinion.

[Brad the Impala]

The men and women responsible for civil rights for gays don't wear sequins, leather or dress in drag. They wear suits and ties and fought for our rights in the courts.


Try telling that to those involved in the Stonewall riots!

"Duberman describes the scene as the two dozen "massively proportioned" TPF riot police advanced down Christopher Street, arms linked in Roman Legion-style wedge formation: "In their path, the rioters slowly retreated, but - contrary to police expectations - did not break and run ... hundreds ... scattered to avoid the billy clubs but then raced around the block, doubled back behind the troopers, and pelted them with debris. When the cops realized that a considerable crowd had simply re-formed to their rear, they flailed out angrily at anyone who came within striking distance.

"But the protestors would not be cowed. The pattern repeated itself several times: The TPF would disperse the jeering mob only to have it re-form behind them, yelling taunts, tossing bottles and bricks, setting fires in trash cans. When the police whirled around to reverse direction at one point, they found themselves face-to-face with their worst nightmare: a chorus line of mocking queens, their arms clasped around each other, kicking their heels in the air Rockettes-style and singing at the tops of their sardonic voices:

'We are the Stonewall girls
We wear our hair in curls
We wear no underwear
We show our pubic hair...
We wear our dungarees
Above our nelly knees!'

"It was a deliciously witty, contemptuous counterpoint to the TPF's brute force." (Stonewall, Duberman, 1993) The following evening, the demonstrators returned, their numbers now swelled to thousands. Leaflets were handed out, titled "Get the Mafia and cops out of gay bars!" Altogether, the protests and disturbances continued with varying intensity for five days."


socialistalternative.org/literature/stonewall.html (http://socialistalternative.org/literature/stonewall.html)

Stonewall was almost 50 YEARS ago! These Thai "Gay Pride" fiascoes are 50 years out of date when they present the message that gay = camp drag queens + gay-for-pay rent boys + alcoholic farang bar owners.

[Brad the Impala]

Not even 40 years ago! It is still a seminal event in the fight for gay rights, whenever it was, as much as Emily Pankhurst's actions are a part of the history of women's liberation, and that was nearly a hundred years ago.

They are points in time when the tides turned.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Try telling that to those involved in the Stonewall riots!

I will if I can find any still alive. :bounce:

State and Federal courts began finding for the defendants in case after case of unlawful arrest and the police stopped using various disturbance laws to raid and arrest gays. Most of the laws are still there but the application against gay for being gay became unlawful.

It's nice to think that these protests made a difference but I just can't see it in NYC, the State of NY, the the other States or in the rest of the world.

Still, if I was there that night, I would have been a part of history and I bet there was a hell of a party.