Famed Thai hospitality shows signs of strain

By Thomas Fuller
International Herald Tribune Published: March 20, 2007

BANGKOK: Long one of the most open and accommodating destinations for tourists and businesspeople in Asia, the well-advertised "land of smiles" is showing signs of a subtle frown directed toward foreigners.
Over the past seven months, successive Thai governments have passed measures scrutinizing land purchases by non-Thais and clamping down on long-stay retirees and expatriate workers who lack proper visas. In January, the cabinet passed a sweeping bill that tightened restrictions on foreign companies, a measure that awaits final approval.
"There's been a trend that suggests rising economic nationalism," said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a professor of political science at Chulalongkorn University. Thailand, he said, has fallen into a "very complex mood of ambivalence" toward outsiders under the military-led government that seized power last September.
That mood is evident in a 12th-floor conference room at the headquarters of Bangkok Bank, where Vongthip Chumpani, an adviser and former vice president at the bank, expressed her frustrations about certain types of foreigners who come to Thailand тАФ and tend to stay.
"We are getting a lot of weird retirees here," Vongthip said. "They can't survive in your country so they come here."

full article http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/20/ ... s/thai.php (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/20/business/thai.php)
via zilfo on Thorntree Thailand

"We are getting a lot of weird retirees here," Vongthip said. "They can't survive in your country so they come here."



Someone give that lady a fricking medal for her keen powers of observation!

"There's been a trend that suggests rising economic nationalism," said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a professor of political science at Chulalongkorn University. Thailand, he said, has fallen into a "very complex mood of ambivalence" toward outsiders under the military-led government that seized power last September.Only since last September? Really? The whole emphasis of Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai, including the name itself, was "Thailand for the Thais", and that captured a mood in Thailand that had been growing for some time. Before Stickman's column began its hibernation there were a number of entries about the rising antagonism of Thais towards foreigners, particularly Westerners. This is not a new phenomenon - but it is a growing one

One does wonder about the mentality of even educated Thais, such as the Bangkok Bank woman quoted. Thailand is not only competing for such things as medical tourism, it is competing (whatever they may tell you) for the retiree dollar. Countries such as Malaysia have formalised the entire system and have an programme with an official name - it used to be (and still may be) called "Silver Hair". Thailand hasn't gone down the path of formalising a programme for one simple reason. When a Malaysian industry minister complained to his Thai counterpart that Thailand was attracting more foreign investment than Malaysia, and asked why, the Thai minister replied "Because Thailand's more fun". Thailand has the same attraction over Malaysia for the retiree market which is why the Thais can get away with not having a formal programme - Thailand sells itself. The Thais are now finding out that there's a downside to "Thailand's more fun" - ask many people, especially those who haven't been here, to name Thailand's top three fun attractions - recreational sex will always be one of them. To complain that such people wouldn't survive in their own countries is simply nonsense, a cheap and easy shot - and popular

[fedssocr]

it's kind of hard to blame them for clamping down on people over-staying their visas or otherwise breaking the law. why have rules at all if you're not going to enforce them?

I've only been to Thailand once so I don't have any other past experiences to compare, but everywhere I went I felt extremely welcome. In fact I have remarked many times that I have never met nicer people anywhere. And I plan to return later this year. So we'll see.

"Thailand's more fun" - ask many people, especially those who haven't been here, to name Thailand's top three fun attractions - recreational sex will always be one of them. To complain that such people wouldn't survive in their own countries is simply nonsense, a cheap and easy shot - and popular

Not so, mostly they, as far as I have been reading, cannot even survive in Thailand. Forever taking little trips home to have the odd nip and tuck, usually its the prostate, but they make full use of such things as the national health and the very strong Euro, Dollar (not so strong) etc, to be able to just survive on the cheap sex, accommodation and food Thailand offers. Not to mention the fun. Retiring in Thailand is 1000% easier on the old wallet than staying home, the heating bills at home alone would put them in the poor house.

[Aunty]

I have enormous sympathy for the comments from the Bank Official. She's absolutely right. Just because you're old don't mean you're quality. Just ask Beryl.

I have enormous sympathy for the comments from the Bank Official. She's absolutely right. Just because you're old don't mean you're quality. Just ask Beryl.No wonder newbies don't want to post here when people like Aunty turn every thread into a personal attack. Let's not forget that it's poster Aunty who has told us recently that all Asians are cretins, incapable of winning Nobel (or as Aunty puts it "Noble") Prizes, but also that Thailand is a Third World shit-hole. Aunty seems to have the colonial mentality - go to a foreign country and fuck the natives

[Aunty]

I rest my case. :cheers:

I rest my case.One of Hedda's favourite ripostes on losing an argument via having her own words thrown back in her face. Hmmm

... To complain that such people wouldn't survive in their own countries is simply nonsense, a cheap and easy shot - and popular

I think Vongthip's comment is valid. If a farang retiree only has a small budget to live in LOS like an average (or below average) Thai, no, he can not survive in his farang land. I don't know the statitics, but I suspect many farang retirees are in this category.

[Doug]

I haven't seen a statue of liberty at Lam Chabang(sp). And maybe the on in New York should be returned.

... To complain that such people wouldn't survive in their own countries is simply nonsense, a cheap and easy shot - and popular

I think Vongthip's comment is valid. If a farang retiree only has a small budget to live in LOS like an average (or below average) Thai, no, he can not survive in his farang land. I don't know the statitics, but I suspect many farang retirees are in this category.
This is kind of bullshit. The visa requirement is 800K baht a year. That is MORE THAN ENOUGH to SURVIVE in the West, but just barely. In Thailand, it is enough for much more than survival, so WHY THE HELL NOT?

This is kind of bullshit. The visa requirement is 800K baht a year. That is MORE THAN ENOUGH to SURVIVE in the West, but just barely. In Thailand, it is enough for much more than survival, so WHY THE HELL NOT?

OK. Let's just say, some farang retirees BARELY SURVIVE in their farang land, so they choose to move to LOS with that retirement budget.
I still see Vongthip's point. These retirees are on the lower end in their farang land.

By the way, I personally know a few farangs still move to or live in LOS with less than 800k baht/year retirement fund. There are many ways to get around the 800k requirement by moving around or bowrrowing money. Until the recent change of law, farangs do visa runs via cheap bus rides to avoid retirement visa requirement. I can see why Thai government change the law to eliminate people in this category.

She forgot to mention how well the Thai retired are taken care of - i wonder why?

Because she was commenting on farang retirees, not on Thais. :bounce:

She forgot to mention how well the Thai retired are taken care of - i wonder why?

They're "taken care of" the same as their farang counterparts. If they've been paying into social security or a provident fund, they get back retirement benefits proportional to what they've put in. If they haven't been paying into such a program, they get nada.

[ikarus]

I think the article is misleading. There is nothing new in "nationalistic" trend discussed in it.
I come to Thailand since 1994 and each time I talk to University people, they always complain about foreigners and how they damage traditional Thailand. The difference, of course, is that now nationalists (should I call them xenophobs?) took over the government.
I disagree with Homi: Thaksin, in fact, represented the cosmopolitan trend (which is also mentioned in the article). All in all, I am sick and tired of junta and will skip Thailand this year.

[TrongpaiExpat]

All in all, I am sick and tired of junta and will skip Thailand this year.

Bit of an over reaction? Unless your traveling in very high circles, you will not have much contact with the junta on a holiday in Thailand or is that holiday in Pattaya?

[ikarus]

All in all, I am sick and tired of junta and will skip Thailand this year.

Bit of an over reaction? Unless your traveling in very high circles, you will not have much contact with the junta on a holiday in Thailand or is that holiday in Pattaya?
Do you think I will have better chance to meet Banya in Pattaya rather than BKK?
More seriously, I recall having dinner with nice Russian couple on December 30, 2006,in restaurant " Traktir u
Zakharovny" opposite Big C on second road. It was their first visit to Thailand and they ask me basically the same question: does military government spoil my vacations. I said I cannot care less. Next night I knew I was terribly wrong. I think we need to expect many more surprises of that and other kinds. Anyway, my life is stressful enough to look for more quiet and pleasant destinations. I hope junta will be out within a year or so but I may be terribly wrong again.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Next night I knew I was terribly wrong.

OK, so what did the junta do to you the next night in Pattaya?

If your referring to the bombs in Bangkok, current views on that is that was Southern insurgency, not the junta and not Toxin supporters. That problem was long before the junta and will be there long after elections.

The BF and I went to Pattaya last weekend to attend the music concert but at the last moment the BF got too fearful of being in a big crowd and convinced me to give it a pass.

[Marsilius]

"We are getting a lot of weird retirees here," Vongthip said. "They can't survive in your country so they come here."

It is interesting that many posters here are assuming that she was making a statement about retirees' economic status. Had she meant that, she would surely have referred to "a lot of poor retirees".

I read her remark about "a lot of weird retirees" as meaning exactly that - people who are just plain odd: socially inept, gauche, crude, loutish and unsophisticated loudmouths who would be at the bottom of society in the west ("can't survive in your country") but who, because they have a degree of money greater than that of the average Thai, are able to achieve some sort of social recognition, denied to them in their homelands, in LOS.

Who can deny that Pattaya, for instance, is heaving with such people, both gay and straight, drinking themselves to solitary oblivion in bars because of their inability to integrate?

This is kind of bullshit. The visa requirement is 800K baht a year. That is MORE THAN ENOUGH to SURVIVE in the West, but just barely. In Thailand, it is enough for much more than survival, so WHY THE HELL NOT?

OK. Let's just say, some farang retirees BARELY SURVIVE in their farang land, so they choose to move to LOS with that retirement budget.
I still see Vongthip's point. These retirees are on the lower end in their farang land.

By the way, I personally know a few farangs still move to or live in LOS with less than 800k baht/year retirement fund. There are many ways to get around the 800k requirement by moving around or bowrrowing money. Until the recent change of law, farangs do visa runs via cheap bus rides to avoid retirement visa requirement. I can see why Thai government change the law to eliminate people in this category.
Again, BULL SHIT!
So what if they can barely survive in the west? They can live quite well in Thailand, and spend good money and hurt nobody. That 800K is over TEN TIMES the average Thai wage. So to you, income level is equivalent to "lower end?" People like artists and intellectuals are rarely rich. Lower end, indeed!

Regarding the cheating, again BULL SHIT.
Those loopholes have been sewed up ALREADY.
You must show the money to be in the account for at least three months. If immigration saw massive movements out and in during the year, they would most definitely give you a hard time. And living on visa runs is very difficult now.
Get a grip, this weird business is pure XENOPHOBIA. Don't defend them.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I feel Ms Vongthip Chumpani has already been taken aside for a cup of green tea and gentle counselling by the Thai Tourism Board and told to basically put a sock in it.

East Europe has already woken up to the game as previously under employed doctors, dentists etc are now offerring far better dental and cosmetic surgery packages than those you can get in Thailand and are being swamped by English patients, with after care rests thrown in and the joys of a holiday in previously mysterious places like Slovakia etc proving highly popular. Shop around and you can end up looking like Tom Cruise for about two thirds of the price at Bumrungrad. Every now and then a whacko like this woman comes out opens her big trap-it's got nothing to do with a coup or anything else.

[ikarus]

Next night I knew I was terribly wrong.

OK, so what did the junta do to you the next night in Pattaya?

If your referring to the bombs in Bangkok, current views on that is that was Southern insurgency, not the junta and not Toxin supporters. That problem was long before the junta and will be there long after elections.

The BF and I went to Pattaya last weekend to attend the music concert but at the last moment the BF got too fearful of being in a big crowd and convinced me to give it a pass.
Trongpai,
Here I disagree with you. If Thaksin still be in power, the chances of bombings outside deep South would be much smaller. Here are the facts: Thaksin warned junta about possible muslim terrorist attacks in BKK. Not only his warnings were ignored but Banya immediatedly upon return from his haj, accused undercurrents in the attacks and basically dismissed the possibility of involvement of muslim terrorists. As you may recall, he even said that they (terrorists) are on the run in Yala and would be lost in BKK. This is despite the fact that the initial evidence (the type of explosives and graffitis left in several locations clearly pointed to the southern direction). I do not believe that he tried to mislead (it would be extremely stupid and, in fact, very dangerous for him). I think he was sincere. So, you can compare: Thaksin is out of power, out of country is much more informed that de facto head of state witrh major task
of fighting southern insurgency.
By the way, during last couple of years Thaksin had a very good intelligence and a net of informants in deep South. He also was able to keep terrorist groups under the constant pressure. Of course, by now it is quite clear that muslim terrorists were behind attacks in BKK and I believe that even concrete terrorist group was identified.
This is only one aspect of icurrent situation in Thailand. Unfortunately, a lot of other bad things are coming exclusively due to junta.

Who can deny that Pattaya, for instance, is heaving with such people, both gay and straight, drinking themselves to solitary oblivion in bars because of their inability to integrate?Non-integration? Sheer loneliness, I'd have thought. That's my reason. Another double, please. Oh - make it a treble

[Geezer]

тАЬBy the way, during last couple of years Thaksin had a very good intelligence and a net of informants in deep South.тАЭ

This must have been after he insisted for months that the bombers and gunmen were тАЬbanditsтАЭ, not terrorists.

Apparently the informants werenтАЩt good enough to identify the abductors of the noted Muslim defense lawyer.

[ikarus]

тАЬBy the way, during last couple of years Thaksin had a very good intelligence and a net of informants in deep South.тАЭ

This must have been after he insisted for months that the bombers and gunmen were тАЬbanditsтАЭ, not terrorists.

Apparently the informants werenтАЩt good enough to identify the abductors of the noted Muslim defense lawyer.
Initially Tahksin had no idea what is going on in the South. That is why, as you may recall,
first steps of his government (and Purachai as interior minister) , e.g. forwarding the control of the province from the army to police and some others were quite negative. But he showed the ability to learn. Unfortunately, you guys do not want to give him any credit. Many events in the South were reported with great bias and taken out of the context.
E.g. the story of the lawer you mentioned above. It sounds like you presume that the lawer was abducted by muslim terrorists? Then Thaksin could rely on the informants and the intelligence.
It would be much more logical to say that the intelligence was not good enough to stop
massive massacre of innocent buddists in the provinces. True. But it was good enough to prevent the spread of the terror in other parts of Thailand. Obviously, it is no longer the case and it should give the expats like you, Geezer , some pause but it is not happening..