In the monkey house for no exit stamp

[wowpow]

"prison story

I just got back from a wondeful 2 month trip through Thailand, Laos and Cambodia. My trip was cut short after spending a week in Immigration Detention Centre (ie, prison) after which i was deported. I think its important people know what happened to avoid it happening to them.

Lonely Planet does not mention anything about this, and even provides false information which could put you in some seriously shitty situiations, read on

When I left Thailand to go to Laos via the Chiang Kong / Huay Xai border crossing, i forgot to pass by the time immigration. I crossed the mekong, proceeded through Lao immigration and continued my trip without problems. I then went from Laos to Cambodia. When i flew back from Siem Reap to Bangkok, i was told at the airport immigration that my Thai exit stamp was missing and some things had to be cleared up.

A couple minutes turned into a couple hours, after which i was taken to prison in downtown bangkok. After 2 days some one from my embassy showed up, and started the procedure to get me out. I had to go to court, pay some fines, some bribes, etc. All in all i spent 7 days in prison and had to buy a new ticket, after which i was deported.

As you probably know, bangkok prisons are not the nicest places to be. I was in a cell with about 60-70 other people, all sleeping on the floor, getting really bad food etc etc. Believe me its a situation you want to avoid. Thai people are lovely, but i could not help but feel treated very unfairly, this is a side of Thailand that most people never see, but it does exist

While i understand that i had to pass by immigration and i needed that stamp, the punishment did not really fit the "crime".

Now, in prison, there were people who had overstayed their visa by a couple of days - something that could happen to anyone without having any bad intentions. They ended up in this prison (IDC), did not have money to buy for a new ticket and their embassies did not really care to help them out. In the LP it says clearly that you merely have to pay 200baht / day that you overstay, well trust me there are lots of people in IDC that will tell you different.

i think LP should stress the need to pass by immigration whenever you cross a border. this may seem obvious, but believe me, Chiang Khong is a small sleepy town and it is very easy to miss / forget passing by immigration, as i did.

if anyone wants to know the itinerary i followed or wants to know more about the above topic, feel free to contact me at stef@sk-audio.org

take it easy
happy travels
Stef

From Lonely Planet's Thorntree website

Thanks for that warning and report. You are very correct. The punishments Thailand doles out for minor immigration violations are downright barbaric.

Now, in prison, there were people who had overstayed their visa by a couple of days - something that could happen to anyone without having any bad intentions. They ended up in this prison (IDC), did not have money to buy for a new ticket and their embassies did not really care to help them out. In the LP it says clearly that you merely have to pay 200baht / day that you overstay, well trust me there are lots of people in IDC that will tell you different.There are some people whom I wonder are able to get themselves out of bed in the morning. The "200 baht/day" rule applies only to those who are leaving the country (ie. on a ticket) and get picked up as they pass through Immigration control. Clearly people in the immigration prison who don't have the money for a ticket don't fall into this category, "without bad intentions" or otherwise. Why should their Embassies be concerned in the sense that they'll spring for an airfare home every time one of their nationals is foolish enough to run out of money while abroad? All travel is At Your Own Risk, whether it's pickpockets, hijacking or Immigration officials. This guy has the true "victim" mentality and needs to grow up

Homi,

Excuse me for a moment. I am an American. When some idiot mountain climbers are stuck on mountain in the dead of winter, hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent to rescue them. When the US embassy helps a national with money, the American promises to pay back every penny (probably with interest). What do we pay taxes for if not to be rescued by our embassies?

For many people with poor health and needing medication, a stay in a Thai prison is very life threatening. You have the gall to assume that you are morally superior and know the specific circumstances of everyone in Thai prison on immigration violations? Shame on you!

The fault is on unbelievably harsh policies of THAI immigration. They could create the same effect with huge fines, which granted not all could pay, but those that couldn't could be blacklisted for life. Problem solved. Someone ought to start a website highlighting this Thai barbarism to balance out the TAT pablum.

TeePee, congrats on getting released. You did indeed suffer a great injustice way out of proportion to your supposed "crimes".

To those idiots who continue to think this could never happen to them, or that these punishments are justified ...
There But For The Grace Of God Go I

In most countries a straight foreword “invitation into governments own secured accommodation” will be issued to any foreign person without appropriate legal documents, visa, or right of stay for subsequent deportation.

For Schengen and most other Asian countries this is the common routine.

The US immigration is not well known for kindness and great hospitality regarding illegal immigrants and even decline consular support.

Some must be pretty ignorant leaving a country illegally – and this is what happened – and wondering that troubles occur while crossing the borders again.

You can't even read the article correctly. It was a typical wowpow/teepee cut'n'paste from the comfort of wowpow's desk. It was written by some young fool posting on the Lonely Planet Web site. It is ludicrous to equate search and rescue missions with people who are so disorganised, lazy or stupid as to run out of money in a foreign country (mind you, I don't have a lot of sympathy with those who put themselves in harm's way either and have to invoke search and rescue). Perhaps you can point us all to the State Department directive on Embassies providing funds for the indigent traveler?

Whoever it was, it was wrong (the treatment).
I am not saying the US embassy would help with that. I am saying they should. I do know for a fact when they buy you a ticket, you promise to pay back the money.

Whoever it was, it was wrong (the treatment). I am not saying the US embassy would help with that. I am saying they should. I do know for a fact when they buy you a ticket, you promise to pay back the money.Oh, so we're on our moral high horse here, are we? A lot of good that does anyone. A reality check would be much more useful

What a dreadful story you have unearthed TeePee! There was clearly no intent to deceive in the part of this traveller, but I suppose in these days of heightened tensions it is still more important that we follow all the rules. It sounds as though the individual caught out was young and fit enoug to stand the rigours of sleeping on a floor and surviving poor food for seven days, but it might not be so easy for those of us getting on in years, or not in such good health.

A timely warning simply to make sure we all folow the rules, and even at quiet border crossing points, make sure that immigration puts the necessary stamps on passports.

Just a question here. He was deported but was he blacklisted (never to return) as well?

There was clearly no intent to deceive in the part of this traveller

Riiight. I'm betting there's more to this story than meets the eye. One does not simply "forget" to have his passport inspected when crossing an international border.

"prison story


When I left Thailand to go to Laos via the Chiang Kong / Huay Xai border crossing, i forgot to pass by the time immigration.

Anyone who forgets they are moving from one country into another should not even have a passport yet alone be given help to get them out of the situation that they find themselves in.

Anyone who forgets they are moving from one country into another should not even have a passport yet alone be given help to get them out of the situation that they find themselves in.As I say, I'm constantly amazed how some people manage to get themselves out of bed in the mornings

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

those who read Lonely Planet tend to be not the most worldly or sophisticated travellers like, say Mrs O'Booze and I who have now finally learnt that a bidet is not for washing one's feet in.

I'm of the view that all those wretchs that work in embassies on inflated allowances are there for my beck and call especially as they paid out of my taxes( when I pay them).

Furthermore I can't abide all these petty rules about immigration which is the biggest bloody scam ever invented..they never happened 100 years ago and everyone could move freely from country to country and that's how it should be. Of course it's all got much worse since that screaming mad loony got loose in the White House but we're almost getting back to sanity now with the EC were members can travel freely backwards and forwards and some old Estonian washerwoman can get over to Paris and make a motza working at Prada and why the hell not ?

Come on you know I'm right..just imagine..you could all get your boy special back home with no probelms !! :cheers:

As for a westerner being thrown in the monkey house..what a shock for a lad from Birmingham just because of a minor slip..hardly fair ! :colors:

a minor slip

Slipping over an international border is minor?

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

not only that he forgot to pass through "time immigration"..the poor bugger was obviously from another dimension..hardly the way to treat an inter-galactic visitor ! :faroah:

[Smiles]

Is that the same "Stef" who Moderates the Gay Thailand website and message board?

Cheers ...

[Bob]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone here been through that border crossing?

Come to think of it, the only border crossing I've gone through by land is via the Mae Sai crossing into Burma (Myanmar). There is no possible way one can forget to go through the thai exit desk there and it would surprise me if one can just wily nily cross the border anywhere.

I'm with BG on this one.
Something smells pretty fishy with this story.

Thailand's borders are very porous, to say the least; it is easy to leave without the authorities knowing it. However, you would be well aware that you were leaving by a non-standard route. I also think soemrthing is fishy here.

[jimnbkk]

A year or so ago when I was visiting the Golden Triangle area, my friend and I took a boat tour on the Mekong. During that tour we stopped for shopping at a little village that we were told was in Laos!! I was a bit uncomfortable, but we didn't do any immigration checks or such, and were there only a short while.

I suppose we could have gotten in a lot of trouble.

[allieb]

There was clearly no intent to deceive in the part of this traveller

Riiight. I'm betting there's more to this story than meets the eye. One does not simply "forget" to have his passport inspected when crossing an international border.


Right. My bet is this guy had grossly overstayed his Thai visa and conveniently forgotten to pass immigration on the way out thinking that would be the end of that little problem. Well it wasn't. It's only a guess but if I were an immigration officer that's what I would think.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone here been through that border crossing?

Come to think of it, the only border crossing I've gone through by land is via the Mae Sai crossing into Burma (Myanmar). There is no possible way one can forget to go through the thai exit desk there and it would surprise me if one can just wily nily cross the border anywhere.

If you take the Mekong route from Chiang Kong (Chiang Rai) by boat to Luang Prabang, you will pass this border crossing.
It is a lovely but pretty adventurous trip, especially with very high or very low waters. Apart from that, the trip is just wonderful.

Chiang Khong is the busy Thai counterpart to the Lao border town of sleepy Huay Xai.

Those who question the posters story and defend Thailand's barbaric treatment of visa overstayers sound like they have internalized the right wing, xenophobic values of their Thai hosts. BIZARRO!!!! Perhaps a new twist on the Stockholm Syndrome. It is one thing following the rules to stay out of jail. It is another thing supporting barbaric overreaction to minor violations, in this case, most likely just a stupid mistake.

BTW, Thai immigration could have easily determined if there was an overstay by looking at the Laos entry stamp.

Those who question the posters story and defend Thailand's barbaric treatment of visa overstayers ...You are assuming the one implies the other. I don't do either, in fact - I think the poster acted foolishly and the consequences are inevitable. I made no comment on Thai prisons, but then I'm generally opposed to prison everywhere except as a last resort, bleeding-heart conservative that I am. What I dispute are his statements about his fellow detainees and their reasons for ending up there, and Lonely Planet's alleged mis-advice - which is so much tosh. That you think Thai prisoners and the Thai treatment of prisoners is barbaric is obvious and many of us would agree. However having made that statement doesn't then mean that you can select for classes of criminals (of which visa over-staying is one such criminal offence) who do or don't "deserve" incarceration. The Thais, in common with most of the world, have no concept of home detention or alternative forms of holding suspected or convicted criminals. Most countries even in the West (and particularly your own precious US of A) have detention areas for illegal immigrants (or visa over-stayers if you prefer a less pejorative term). These people are being handled no differently than they would be anywhere else in the world - it's just that Thai prisons are bloody awful, about which there's no dispute, even from the Thais (although possibly from boygeenyus)

Bullshit.
A European caught in the US overstaying a tourist visa would NOT be going to prison. Deported yes. Perhaps held captive until the flight could be arranged, but again, not sleeping on the floor in a cell with 50 people.

Bullshit. A European caught in the US overstaying a tourist visa would NOT be going to prison. Deported yes. Perhaps held captive until the flight could be arranged, but again, not sleeping on the floor in a cell with 50 people.I'd get your eyes tested, dear boy. This is what I wrote:
Most countries even in the West (and particularly your own precious US of A) have detention areas for illegal immigrantsI didn't mention prison. Your answer displays an interesting tinge of racism "A European caught in the US ..." - you believe Europeans should have the law applied differentially?

Actually, yes and no.
An Englishman of any race visiting Thailand on a tourist visa who overstays is not the same class of economic threat to Thailand as an illegal Burmese worker.

Thailand depends on TOURIST INCOME from richer countries. By imposing harsh treatment for minor immigration violations on nationals of the countries they are trying to draw tourists from is not only barbaric, but stupid from a public relations point of view.

While on this subject, why doesn't Thailand offer a SIX MONTH tourist visa ON ARRIVAL for nationals of countries they are trying to attract? Instead, they encourage visa runs and travel to OTHER COUNTRIES. Just stupid and xenophobic.

The same can be said of that same Englishman in America, versus an illegal Honduran worker.
If you want to ignore the reality of the real world, so be it. I deal with reality. Perhaps you live on Planet Politically Correct.

There is racism in the immigration policies of most world countries. I didn't make this happen. It exists. I don't think any race or nationality should be treated barbarically, of course.

In this board, we are addressing the treatment of WESTERNERS. The brutality against Burmese and such is a totally separate areas of discussion.

... that one of the things that's helpful for people like you to comprehend what's written is to move your lips as you read the words

Los Angeles: Here are three young American students on 2-year-biking tour pedalling on rambling grounds through the Grand Canyon – and straight into prison.

They need to spend 2 days behind bars and where find 500 USD each. On top of all, none of them is allowed to enter any US National Park anymore until 2012.

Arizona state attorneys are very strict if some is ignoring the national park rules.
.............

I just received this information via email from a trusted friend of mine who was a witness of this incident.


I am pretty certain; they all did have proper travel documents. They didn’t cross any international border.

[Bob]

Huh? Interesting story but what was it they being held for? They obviously were charged with some crime and my guess (only a guess) is they were either found guilty or pleaded guilty to something. Just curious what it was.

And sitting two nights in the local calaboose in Bumfuck, Arizona, is a little less onerous than "prison."