Pattaya BAR OWNERS: Please tell us NEW "off" rules

[travelerjim]

Sawatdee Friends,

Tonight - Monday night - I made the rounds of many clubs and bars...
in both the Sunee Plaza and Day-Night Areas.

One of the bar owners I spoke with -
said to me that the Police had recently issued a letter to all owners...
and that the letter stated that all Waiters need be at least 18 years of age...

And...it also said:
That NO Waiter "under the age of 20" is to be "offed from the bar/club".

Therefore, it is now illegal to off - from a Bar or Club -
a Waiter who is 18 or 19 years of age...(Under age 20) in Pattaya.

Please..Mr. Bar and Club Owners...tell us if this in fact is the current law in Pattaya...
and what is the penalty and or fine; and if a Farang will be arrested ...
if they are found to be with a Waiter - away from the bar or club where he works - who is UNDER the age of 20.

Also - what about "short time rooms" some clubs and bars offer...
Is it NOW illegal to be with a boy who is age 18 or 19 ("under age 20")...
in your - "on premises" short time rooms.

I have raised this question because I believe your friends, customers and visitors ...
to Pattaya have a right and need to know....
what the current Police policy or law really is in Pattaya.

And - of course -
If you have a different interpretation of the letter given you by the Police...
please tell us.

Thank you for your helpful replies.

TJ

Sawatdee Friends,

Tonight - Monday night - I made the rounds of many clubs and bars...
in both the Sunee Plaza and Day-Night Areas.

One of the bar owners I spoke with -
said to me that the Police had recently issued a letter to all owners...
and that the letter stated that all Waiters need be at least 18 years of age...

And...is also said:
That NO Waiter "under the age of 20" is to be "offed from the bar/club".

Therefore, it is now illegal to off - from a Bar or Club -
a Waiter who is 18 or 19 years of age...(Under age 20) in Pattaya.

Please..Mr. Bar and Club Owners...tell us if this in fact is the current law in Pattaya...
and what is the penalty and or fine; and if a Farang will be arrested ...
if they are found to be with a Waiter - away from the bar or club where he works - who is UNDER the age of 20.

Also - what about "short time rooms" some clubs and bars offer...
Is it NOW illegal to be with a boy who is age 18 or 19 ("under age 20")...
in your - "on premises" short time rooms.

I have raised this question because I believe your friends, customers and visitors ...
to Pattaya have a right and need to know....
what the current Police policy or law really is in Pattaya.

And - of course -
If you have a different interpretation of the letter given you by the Police...
please tell us.

Thank you for your helpful replies.

TJ

Actually this is neither a new rule nor only imposed in Pattaya.

The same rule was announced several years ago. But after no time it has been widely ignored. Obviously someone did dig it out again and has been blowing some new life into it. This regulation is generally imposed all over Thailand.

Officially is "offing" someone illegal. But these rules had also found its place in a very dark and dusty file cabinet.

The business proprietor is solemnly obliged to ensure that everybody of his staff is following the rules.

A customer cannot be punished if he “offs” someone between 18 and less then 20 years of age.

That’s the trouble: Even a long time “forgotten” rule is still valid, until it’s been crapped.

[fedssocr]

I guess the question would be does that only apply to waiters or does it also apply to the "dancers"? How many waiters get offed anyway?

I guess the question would be does that only apply to waiters or does it also apply to the "dancers"? How many waiters get offed anyway?

This rule generally includes any kind of staff. And "freelancers" are not allowd in bars after 22 hrs unless there are 20 years of age!

[catawampuscat]

It would be nice if we lived in a world of transparency and if merely asking owners to be straignt with us had any effect..

After many appeals for clarification, (of how much or what percentage of the monies collected to benefit Allen of Pattayagay) the appeals
were ignored, but all ended well enough.

Most of us know that bars are not allowed to serve or admit customers under 20 years old and yet that rule is ignored
by most Sunee bars and yet strictly enforced by clubs such as Xctye(sic).

TJ , have a drink at K-boys one nite and you will be shocked at the ages of some of the employees. Just look who is sitting
with the farangs and you will see the youngest and smallest are the most popular and they appear well under 16 y.o. but
the reality is "it is who you know" and some places are protected from the enforcement of the rules and only a blind man would
miss this reality..
Concern about the legality of being with an 18 or 19 y.o. in a bar seems a bit absurd, if you ever go to bars like K boys or Kaos
on a normal nite, (when there are no warnings about police to empty the bars of the underaged ones) and the minority of the boys
will be 18 or older..

[travelerjim]

[quote="catawampuscat"]It would be nice if we lived in a world of transparency and if merely asking owners to be straignt with us had any effect..

After many appeals for clarification, (of how much or what percentage of the monies collected to benefit Allen of Pattayagay) the appeals
were ignored, but all ended well enough.

Most of us know that bars are not allowed to serve or admit customers under 20 years old and yet that rule is ignored
by most Sunee bars and yet strictly enforced by clubs such as Xctye(sic).

Concern about the legality of being with an 18 or 19 y.o. in a bar seems a bit absurd,

---------

Well Cat ...I am aware that there are bars and clubs which have chosen to allow
"underage 20" boys to work and be taken "off" from them...
and that there are even younger ones to be seen in some clubs...as you have pointed out.

My concern expressed here in my original posting "is not absurd"...
It was and still is ..
>>>>Has there been a "change" in Police policy regarding the club staff/waiters/dancers...
who are "under age 20...especially 18 & 19 years of age.

The owner who I spoke with last night said there had been a change ...
and a new letter was handed out to all club owners recently by the Police.

Yes, it may be "old news" of an "old law" on the books now being enforced...
But Cat ....I am concerned for the many Farangs who are friends, residents and visitors to Pattaya -
That they know "what is happening" ...
The Bar Owners as you have intimated. "remain silent" ...
They seem to prefer sitting on the sidelines and do their day to business...
Leaving unsuspecting customers at risk.

I am not on a soap box...
The club owner said there had been a change...I just would like to know if that in fact is happening...
and if we are at risk for arrest or jail or deportation if we are with an "under 20 age...
Thai Waiter, Staff, Dancer etc...who you may have "offed" - away from their club or business".

To assume that "but all ended well enough" ..
(as you have stated regarding the transparency in fund raising issues)
with respect to this issue of "under age 20 staff" ...is not same-same!

It is our own personal lives which are at stake...arrest, fines, jail, deportation ..what else ???

All I have asked from Club Owners...(as they have recently received the letter from Police)...
is for a clarification and understanding of this newly issued (or revisited) policy
by the Police in Pattaya...and its legal meaning for of of us who visit Pattaya.

I ask again:

"What happens to a Farang - who has been stopped and found by Police -
to be in the company of...and has "offed" a staff member...
from a bar or club who is age 18 or 19 (under 20)" ?

TJ

[TrongpaiExpat]

"What happens to a Farang - who has been stopped and found by Police -
to be in the company of...and has "offed" a staff member...
from a bar or club who is age 18 or 19 (under 20)" ?

TJ

I am not sure why you think that the bar owners know the answer to this question. I am not sure that even the police know exactly what they would do. That's just life in Thailand: consistency and clarity is just not a national strength.

"What happens to a Farang - who has been stopped and found by Police -
to be in the company of...and has "offed" a staff member...
from a bar or club who is age 18 or 19 (under 20)" ?

TJ

I am not sure why you think that the bar owners know the answer to this question. I am not sure that even the police know exactly what they would do. That's just life in Thailand: consistency and clarity is just not a national strength.


The regulation in question is binding the employer ( = i.e. bar owner) only.

Don't worry, nothing happens neither to the person being "offed" nor the custumer if is is been found in company with an between 18 but not 20 years old "off" boy or girl. Its the the bars owner sole and only who gets the trouble.

[Dboy]

Concern about the legality of being with an 18 or 19 y.o. in a bar seems a bit absurd, if you ever go to bars like K boys or Kaos
on a normal nite, (when there are no warnings about police to empty the bars of the underaged ones) and the minority of the boys
will be 18 or older..

And it's especially absurd to be concerned about the legality in K Boys or Kaos, since prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

Dboy

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

Traveler Jim although it's a legitimate one to ask.

However if such a letter does exist it highlights the absudity of Thai laws and indeed, the hypocrisy of some of them and the outright corruption of some authorities. As one rightly points out-prostitution is illegal and even purchasing dinner for a boy or giving a small gift in exchange for a favour is viewed as
payment for services and thus an illegal act and one could be arrested although of course it's vastly ignored.

Perhaps ttom could ask his copper friends for a clearer update on whether it will be strictly enforced in Pattaya as he seems well-in with the narcs. We know the Pattaya bar owners out of economic nessesity will simply ignore it and carry on as normal and heaven forbide-may even have a lad a day under 18 on the premises which wil draw the wrath of the "pedo" hunter brigade screeching like banchees.

Than God they keep popping in to check up so we don't have to ! :cheers:

[travelerjim]

Traveler Jim although it's a legitimate one to ask.

"Re: I'm not sure how you will get an answer to this question"

Yes...LO'B....I really did not expect a club owner to come on this board...
to explain or help us understand the new Police letter directive.
I guess some think "silence is golden"...or more baht to them.

However, the club owners do not miss an opportunity to have their...
special promotions, posters, flyer's, or events publicized here and other boards...

But to expect them to let us all in on recent Police news about underage 20 (18 & 19)...
Thais going off their workplace premises ...
Heaven forbid...They are silent!

Again - not surprising.

I do thank Ttom for his insightful replies...
hopefully he is connected with a club or is a club owners friend - and he knows...
and his replies were written as "matter of fact" to help us understand the directive...
and its consequences...especially to the farangs and employees.

Thanks again Ttom :-)

TJ

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

I met a charming young man in a gay bar in Bangkok who decided to accompany me to Pattaya after a night in my hotel...with the added benefit that he had his own rather new pick-up truck which I assumed was because he must have been rather middle class..like moi !!

As we approached Pattaya we were stopped by one of those road-side "check-ups" that usually mean passing over 200 baht or so and he produced an ID that made the both policeman snap to attention and salute him...stop all the traffic on both sides of the road..and direct us out and ahead of everyone else.!!!! :cyclopsani: :cyclopsani:

I behaved myself so carefully over the next few days...looked like a young student to me !! :cyclops: :cyclops: