man on trial for insulting King

[lonelywombat]

Man on trial for insulting king

From correspondents in Bangkok

February 07, 2007 08:58pm
Article from: AAP

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A SWISS man will go on trial in Thailand next month facing 75 years in jail for defacing images of King Bhumibol Adulyadej during a drunken spree on the revered monarch's birthday, officials said today.

The trial of Oliver Rudolf Jufer, 57, charged with five separate acts of lese majeste, would start on March 12 in the northern city of Chiang Mai where he lived, they said.

Police would seek consecutive jail terms for Jufer on each count carrying jail terms of between three and 15 years after he daubed the portraits of the king, whom many Thais regards as semi-divine, with black paint.

"This is a delicate issue and we don't want the public to know much about it," Chiang Mai chief prosecutor Manoon Moongpanchon said, declining to give more details.

Mr Jufer has been in jail since he was arrested in December.

Only one Thai newspaper reported the episode after police asked local journalists not to write about it to minimise the disrespect to King Bhumibol, the world's longest-reigning monarch.

Don't they have an insanity defense in Thailand? Even if the man believed his views, it is insane to act the way he did. It would be like butt fucking in the middle of a Jerry Falwell church service.

[Geezer]

тАЬIt would be like butt fucking in the middle of a Jerry Falwell church service.тАЭ

http://www.jerry-falwell.com/

Don't they have an insanity defense in Thailand? Even if the man believed his views, it is insane to act the way he did. It would be like butt fucking in the middle of a Jerry Falwell church service.

...or passing out ham sandwiches during temple.

Hahaha. We all saw with the Erawan Shrine case how much tolerance the Thai have for insane people who defile their sacred cows...

[allieb]

...or passing out ham sandwiches during temple.

Shabat Shalom

[wowpow]

He got 10 years jail today.

BBC World TV

He got 10 years jail today.

BBC World TV

aw shucks, fuck you pee pee, you beat me to it by about ten minutes, just heard it on TVBpearl, the news. Ya ten years! That'll learn him.

Ya ten years! That'll learn him.

When in America, don't insult a certain religio-ethnic group who obviously has great power, like a certain Monday night TV sport's announcer we never heard from again (thank god) did.

And in other certain countries, don't insult HM.

Good riddance to him!

10 years for that is ridiculous, way over the top.
and b4 anyone comes on telling me that its Thailand and its their laws and they're entitled to do what they want..just dont ok.

In Iran they hang a couple of boys just for being gay. If any of you go there and meet the same fate then you can at least be comforted by the fact that I'll be on here saying that was OTT as well.

[Dick]

And aren't we the lucky ones for living in a society that is more tolerant.
Rule 1: Do not judge other cultures by your own standards.
Especially if you are fortunate not to live in the society you are judging.
Rule 2: Life on this world is very unfair.

3 Shit happens

3 Shit happens

Thats some shit! Ten years? In this I am unanimous I am sure , all drunken Euro trash yobs should spend ten years hard labour just to come into contention for a visa. The place is becoming over run with it. I blame it on budget airways and the economy classes sucking up our oxygen.
On the plus side, given Thailand's propensity for loving forgiveness (not before ten years is up, I assure everyone) he might be able to apply for Thai nationality, I am sure he will be delighted given all the close buddy's he will have made.

Ya ten years! That'll learn him.

When in America, don't insult a certain religio-ethnic group who obviously has great power, like a certain Monday night TV sport's announcer we never heard from again (thank god) did.

And in other certain countries, don't insult HM.

Good riddance to him!

Arnoid can you explain? Who, which sports announcer, what ethnic group?

Arnoid can you explain? Who, which sports announcer, what ethnic group?You expect Adenoids to post something that makes sense? :clown: :idea: :bounce: He's been on my {Ignore list} ever since the facility was made available

Arnoid can you explain? Who, which sports announcer, what ethnic group?You expect Adenoids to post something that makes sense? :clown: :idea: :bounce: He's been on my {Ignore list} ever since the facility was made available

Yes I do he is French and bright.

[Brad the Impala]

I doubt if he will actually serve a year. He will be freed on the Kings Pardon.

I doubt if he will actually serve a year. He will be freed on the Kings Pardon.

BAWAHA HA HA ! Or how ever it goes. :cheers:

What's so funny, Cedric? The King is on record as saying that he will pardon anyone who is sentenced to prison on lese-majeste charges. The IHT coverage of the matter refers to this statement:

www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/29/asia/king.php (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/29/asia/king.php)

I must also be criticized," he said in a 2005 speech in which he dwelled on the point. Bhumibol said he had never allowed someone to go to prison for having criticized him. "If they get sent to prison, I pardon them," The king I believe, according to Paul Handley at least, American author of the less than trustworthy book the King and I.

Its one thing to criticise the King its another to go around deliberately to more than one image of him and deface his and the queens image, this is striking at the very heart of Thai society and is not only an insult to the King but to the entire kingdom of Thailand. His sentence was technically reduced from 75 Years, though that was a far more fitting sentence under the circumstances. I imagine he will actually get all ten years of the reduced sentence.

Prediction: we'll be telling Ceddie "told you so" by year end.

Prediction: we'll be telling Ceddie "told you so" by year end.

Er thats a long time away? Poor Oliver, "please sir can i have less"?
I have spent time myself and I know it is the most terrifying thing in the world, the first day week month it feels like your life is being crushed from your body your head hurts so bad from the lack of freedom its like having a stroke, you cant see clearly and you run around with your hands over your skull, asking and asking yourself why, what did I do wrong, all too horrible to contemplate.

It was just a day and a night for me but that was enough. Besides it really wasn't my fault at all, I wasn't told there was alcohol in the fruit punch.

Our fragile, sensitive little Ceddie is an ex-con?

Arnoid can you explain? Who, which sports announcer, what ethnic group?

Oooooops ...

Howard Cosell's abrupt disappearance was probably more for his ocasionally racist and controversial remarks that FUELED anti-semitism. He was not fired for any "anti-semitic" remarks. He was indeed (non-devoutly) Jewish himself.

How long do you think he will live, one put in prison and everyone knows why he is there.
He will be serving a death sentence if put in general population.

[Smiles]

I wonder if there is not a typical Thai back way/political way of getting things accomplished here . . . mostly to do with saving face, or increasing face and gaining merit.

The gentleman has pleaded guilty ... thus gets the time, though 10 years instead of 75: the judge saves face by not having having to preside over (and horrors, possibly acquit ... loosing HUGE face) a case wherein the crime was committed against the King. He gains face by successfully 'defending' the King's face & honour.
At the same time the judge gains on-the-side merit by grabbing the opportunity to show mercy by reducing the sentence to 10 years. He also gains face by not appearing weak . . . i.e. by reducing the sentence down too far, or, (VERY weak), by granting no jail time at all.

The king ~ after a reasonable amount of time ~ gains HUGE amounts of face and merit in the eyes of his people by granting a full pardon (and probably expulsion).
By doing this he just adds to his already formidable ~ and popular ~ stature of being beneficently above the law ~ thus helping the Judge out by letting him save face by not seeming to 'ignore' the Judge's specifically legal ruling ~ and thus having the very laudable power and ability to show ultimate mercy . . . and demonstrating concretely that he means what he has said recently regarding the downside of the medieval concept of 'Lese Majesty' (therefore at the same time being seen as a "modern" King).

Winners? The King, the judge (and the Thai legal system), and ~ as an afterthought ~ the defendant.

Cheers ...

[Brad the Impala]

Spot on Smiles.

The king ~ after a reasonable amount of time ~ gains HUGE amounts of face and merit in the eyes of his people by granting a full pardon (and probably expulsion).
By doing this he just adds to his already formidable ~ and popular ~ stature
Cheers ...

Yes I agree, but I think ten years is probably just considered a reasonable amount of time. Seventy five years well that might be seen as a bit harsh, but the longer the better,more merit? More prisoner relief when it comes, more rejoicing by devout peoples at the Kings mercy to see long standing prisoners as being the first in line for pardon?
It was after all malicious and premeditated and he showed no remorse, just a blank stare. Oliver went home to pick up the spray paint and then went from image after image on a scooter blotting out the faces of Their Majesty's the King Bhumipol Adulyadej and Queen Sirikit Kityakara of the kingdom of Thailand. Thats a lot of face to salvage.

[puckered_penguin]

It is rather sad that the Institution of Royalty is so fearful of criticism that it has to defend itself with draconian punishment. maybe sad is the wrong term.

Is is not strong enough to stand on it its own record of ... yes that would be an interesting but dangerous subject to explore.

i wonder will the laws be revoked when the current King departs this mortal coil.

It is rather sad that the Institution of Royalty is so fearful of criticism that it has to defend itself with draconian punishment. maybe sad is the wrong term.The purpose, as played out currently, is to stifle political debate. There is no debate, for example, on what affects people the most - economic policy - because the King has proposed a "Sufficiency Economy" theory widely derided by economists outside Thailand. It cannot be discussed inside Thailand because the King has proposed it, therefore to criticise would invoke the lese majeste law. All the government can discuss is how to carry it out (the current government) or the government can ignore it completely by never mentioning it (the Thaksin government)

Equally you cannot discuss the failure of the State educational system because the same Sufficiency Economy theory says that the common people don't need more than a basic education - and in Thailand a basic education is rote learning about the importance of the King and the values his particular strand of Thai Buddhism represents

... and nowadays (after two generations) the senior male is an Advisor to the King, and the senior female passes some time with the Queen.And the sad thing is - they think that matters

[Bob]

At 35 baht to the dollar, that $9,100.00 per year translates to 26,541.66 baht per month. Most of the service industry people falang run into seem to make 4,000 to 8,000 baht per month whereas the farmers (supposedly 50% of the labor force in Thailand), make much less than that. I would guess the per capita GDP is fairly meaningless and that less than 10% of the people make the bulk of the income in Thailand.
Thailand is a poor, third-world, country for the bulk of its citizens.

Back to the topic at hand, Smiles probably has it right....the only question being (in my opinion) is when the King will pardon the dolt. I do understand from locals that the guy has not been put in general jail population for his own protection (he'd likely not last a week otherwise).

doing much better than Zimbabwe and Burma.You set the bar so high! "Middle Income" country - from the politically correct World Bank handbook - http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNA ... 19,00.html (http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/DATASTATISTICS/0,,contentMDK:20420458~menuPK:64133156~pagePK:6413 3150~piPK:64133175~theSitePK:239419,00.html)

I'm surprised you deal in such political correctness, dear boy. As I recall you believe in logical fallacies about causation - B follows A therefore A caused B - that sort of thing. I'm referring to your famous post where you claimed that the Enlightenment caused concentration camps - http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/fo ... html#96385 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gestapo-t10031.html#96385)

[Bob]

jaafarabutarab, I'm just puzzled by the math.

Your prior figures indicate $9,100.00 (in US Dollars) per year per capita. If that's correct (if not, my figures are baloney), $9,100 US dollars per year translates into 318,500 baht per year (9100 x 35). Divide that by twelve (to get the monthly amount), and my calculator says it's 26,541.66 per month. Now perhaps gross domestic product per capita is not translatable into gross domestic income per capita. Maybe apples and oranges....

jaafarabutarab is a disciple of Rush Limbaugh, Bob. You don't expect Rush to be able to do the math, do you?

The term third-world originated during the Cold War. The First World was USA/Europe/Japan, the Second World was the Communists, and the Third World was everybody else.

My recollection from those times was that it originated from the declaration that one third of the world was starving. In the 1980s I remember some referring to the tiger economies as the second world.

One set of academic globalists divide countries something along the lines of the following.

Those that

1. Generate new forms of being/business;
2. Aspire to one and effectively supply goods or services to them ie are emerging;
3. Concentrate on acquiring inward investment; effectively self neo-colonising;
4. Are beset by insoluble infrastructure problems sometimes perpetuated by a powerful elite.

Of course many instances do not fit neatly but a similar model has been used to categorise particular industries in a global context.

I wonder if there is not a typical Thai back way/political way of getting things accomplished here . . . mostly to do with saving face, or increasing face and gaining merit.

The gentleman has pleaded guilty ... thus gets the time, though 10 years instead of 75: the judge saves face by not having having to preside over (and horrors, possibly acquit ... loosing HUGE face) a case wherein the crime was committed against the King. He gains face by successfully 'defending' the King's face & honour.
At the same time the judge gains on-the-side merit by grabbing the opportunity to show mercy by reducing the sentence to 10 years. He also gains face by not appearing weak . . . i.e. by reducing the sentence down too far, or, (VERY weak), by granting no jail time at all.

The king ~ after a reasonable amount of time ~ gains HUGE amounts of face and merit in the eyes of his people by granting a full pardon (and probably expulsion).
By doing this he just adds to his already formidable ~ and popular ~ stature of being beneficently above the law ~ thus helping the Judge out by letting him save face by not seeming to 'ignore' the Judge's specifically legal ruling ~ and thus having the very laudable power and ability to show ultimate mercy . . . and demonstrating concretely that he means what he has said recently regarding the downside of the medieval concept of 'Lese Majesty' (therefore at the same time being seen as a "modern" King).

Winners? The King, the judge (and the Thai legal system), and ~ as an afterthought ~ the defendant.

Cheers ...

So, in plain English, it was a PR exercise to primarily benefit the three actors you mentioned above. A PR exercise which has no intrinsic merit to Thai society as a whole or the Thai justice system or the furtherance of human rights in Thailand. A PR exercise which sets a dangerous precedence for future rulers and administrations (who may not deserve the same respect) to use and abuse. A PR exercise which, at its core, assumes a naive and easily manipulated local population.

Ans the final tally from this vaudeville act is as follows:

King, Executive and dubious Thai justice system : +10

Thailand's international reputation : -10

Real benefit to Thai people : ZERO