Work for EX Thai sex workers

Just call me Mr. Controversy.

I am curious about the subject about what happens when a farang forms a relationship with a Thai sex worker (go go, beer bar, or even a flirty waiter kind of a gig) and the Thai then quits his workplace?

Well, then what? I am really curious about this.

So there is a honeymoon of one week or one year and the Thai boy lives like a King and catches up on all his Chinese soap operas, and then what?

So, now it is clear the Thai boy has to do something for work in hi native culture. Well, what can he do?

Now, he can get a boring low paid job like Big C clerk that takes so many hours and pays so little. But a boy who was attracted to the glamour of being a sex worker, how could he handle that? And he knows he doesn't need this little money. His farang can take care everything ...

So, what I am getting at is setting the boy up in a business. Now, most people know the failure rate of sex bars run by amateurs is dismal. So what other kinds of businesses could a typical ex barboy be expected to have some chance at succeeding in, that might actually be more fruitful and interesting than a Big C clerk?

It seems to me this kind of issue means the end of alot of farang/Thai boy affairs. An old retired farang is age and culture appropriate to relax every day in the tropics, but a young Thai man should really be functioning some way in his own culture. Most sane farangs would grow tired and angry of a boy who is happy to not do anything indefinitely, yet many of these boys clearly have no ambition.

So, any thoughts or ideas on this?

I've seen quite a few boys end up as hairdressers or their boyfriend opens a small restaurant (Niddy's) or a guest-house. There's one "boy" at Dream Boy who was supported on his way to successful completion of a tertiary college qualification in something practical by a Westerner over many years, but who found he could earn more money hocking his box, so he's back at the bar. Another boy there gave up a successful job with a multinational to earn much more money as a bar boy. Unfortunately for the Thais, having and practising a skill does not necessarily command any sort of premium in the jobs market. Jobs at the top are always reserved for the Thai elite; most everyone else is an also-ran and their salary reflects their lowly social position. The King encourages this with his lunatic economic policy of self-sufficiency, best translated as "be happy with what you've got and don't make waves"

Homi,

Thats pretty much my impression.
So how can such relationships last? If a boy isn't very ambitious, and I agree with you there is a bias in this culture to stay and accept your place, and lets face it, most sex workers aren't very ambitious (unless you count trying to maximize offs as ambitious), then it would be a crappy investment to set them up in a business owner or even pay his school.

Supposing a boy did seem to have a certain spark. Any biz ideas other than the obvious bars and small food outlets?

It does seem the old wisdom, avoid relationships with sex workers like the plague is good advise, but in Pattaya, not very easy to follow.

While ambition does not often rate highly with most Thais, I've seen a few both bar boys and otherwise who have done well for themselves, and of their own volition. However you need to understand that Thailand is a hierarchical society so the concept of patronage runs very deep. While at worst the bar-boy's customer (if seen more than once) often feels he's little more than a walking ATM, from the bar-boy's perspective (and non-professional sex workers would have the same attitude) the relationship is now one of patronage. You are his patron - an honoured place in Thai society (all other things being equal, and since you're not a Thai and by you associating with him other Thais know he must be a prostitute, they're not equal and therefore there's not much honour). So a patron's role is to provide protection, care, money, the needs of life - without the recipient having to provide anything of his own. It all makes perfect sense if you have that mind-set

If you don't have that mind-set or, worse, don't understand that that's the context in which you're operating, then it leads to confusion and resentment on the part of the Westerner. Take that along with the general Asian sense of "every man for himself" which often means doing down your co-workers, and Thailand is not that comfortable a place for the poorer Thais. That's why there's such a huge emphasis on family. They're the only people who will look after you - and of course you must look after them. I heard a story the other day which is not a-typical, of someone who trained as a hairdresser and the only job she could get was working for tips (no salary) in a beauty salon ("Maybe salary after one year"). Don't assume it's only foreigners they try to screw!!

That last part is shocking because Thais don't tip hairdressers!

Yes, none of this surprises me.
But I am still trying to understand the mindset. What about the future? Sex workers know that they are mostly over at 30, or even 25. They know that farangs leave or die. I am not saying they are stupid. So, does the future not really exist for them very much as something to plan for?

...But I am still trying to understand the mindset. What about the future? Sex workers know that they are mostly over at 30, or even 25. They know that farangs leave or die. I am not saying they are stupid. So, does the future not really exist for them very much as something to plan for?

And how many 20'somethings in your own home country plan for the future? It's a "youth" thing not a Thai thing. We are seeing an exaggerated effect since Bar Boys are of the lower economic classes and have little education or chance of advancement.

There are a lot of things ex-bar boys can do with little education just like any other Thai. They can drive a tuk-tuk or motrocycle taxi or even a real taxi-cab. They can work in the construction trades. Most are farm boys and they can always go back to farming. They can have a small shop (not a 7-11 but a stall in the market) to sell "things".
Whatever they do it will have to be "sanuk" and they will want to be with their friends or family.

[/quote]While at worst the bar-boy's customer (if seen more than once) often feels he's little more than a walking ATM, from the bar-boy's perspective (and non-professional sex workers would have the same attitude) the relationship is now one of patronage. You are his patron - an honoured place in Thai society (all other things being equal, and since you're not a Thai and by you associating with him other Thais know he must be a prostitute, they're not equal and therefore there's not much honour). So a patron's role is to provide protection, care, money, the needs of life - without the recipient having to provide anything of his own. It all makes perfect sense if you have that mind-set

Thank you Homintern, now it makes perfect sense to me! But it is disgusting to know that other Thais know he must be a prostitute (which is how he defined himself), and not being FRIENDS with the farang (which is how I defined it).

there are escorts even in their 60's, I see quite a lot advertised in their 40's and 50's - generally the kinkier side of sex albeit - and even a guy in his 60's - mind you generally I've seen advertised, guys in their 60's generally advertise as masters and that sort of thing. Not everyone wants a younger type guy - and there is certainly activity out there for guys in their 30's.

...But I am still trying to understand the mindset. What about the future? Sex workers know that they are mostly over at 30, or even 25. They know that farangs leave or die. I am not saying they are stupid. So, does the future not really exist for them very much as something to plan for?

And how many 20'somethings in your own home country plan for the future? It's a "youth" thing not a Thai thing. We are seeing an exaggerated effect since Bar Boys are of the lower economic classes and have little education or chance of advancement.

There are a lot of things ex-bar boys can do with little education just like any other Thai. They can drive a tuk-tuk or motrocycle taxi or even a real taxi-cab. They can work in the construction trades. Most are farm boys and they can always go back to farming. They can have a small shop (not a 7-11 but a stall in the market) to sell "things".
Whatever they do it will have to be "sanuk" and they will want to be with their friends or family.
Sorry, but NONE of those wonderful occupations sounds the least bit sanuk to me. What is this myth that Thais are all happy natives? Bangkok taxi drivers are one of the most miserable class of creatures on the planet.

there are escorts even in their 60's, I see quite a lot advertised in their 40's and 50's - generally the kinkier side of sex albeit - and even a guy in his 60's - mind you generally I've seen advertised, guys in their 60's generally advertise as masters and that sort of thing. Not everyone wants a younger type guy - and there is certainly activity out there for guys in their 30's.
Get a grip. This is Thailand! People want boys and for the muscle queens it tops out at 30, 40 if exceptional. Have you seen the pitiful looking 40 year old go go boys? They are pathetic and hardly ever get offed.

...But I am still trying to understand the mindset. What about the future? Sex workers know that they are mostly over at 30, or even 25. They know that farangs leave or die. I am not saying they are stupid. So, does the future not really exist for them very much as something to plan for?

And how many 20'somethings in your own home country plan for the future? It's a "youth" thing not a Thai thing. We are seeing an exaggerated effect since Bar Boys are of the lower economic classes and have little education or chance of advancement.

There are a lot of things ex-bar boys can do with little education just like any other Thai. They can drive a tuk-tuk or motrocycle taxi or even a real taxi-cab. They can work in the construction trades. Most are farm boys and they can always go back to farming. They can have a small shop (not a 7-11 but a stall in the market) to sell "things".
Whatever they do it will have to be "sanuk" and they will want to be with their friends or family.
Oh, really? In the west, by 25 most young men are beginning to build a career. The others are mostly headed to jail. Now, Thai gay male sex workers are of course a tiny minority of Thai youth, but these are the dudes we are talking about.

While at worst the bar-boy's customer (if seen more than once) often feels he's little more than a walking ATM, from the bar-boy's perspective (and non-professional sex workers would have the same attitude) the relationship is now one of patronage. You are his patron - an honoured place in Thai society (all other things being equal, and since you're not a Thai and by you associating with him other Thais know he must be a prostitute, they're not equal and therefore there's not much honour). So a patron's role is to provide protection, care, money, the needs of life - without the recipient having to provide anything of his own. It all makes perfect sense if you have that mind-set

Thank you Homintern, now it makes perfect sense to me! But it is disgusting to know that other Thais know he must be a prostitute (which is how he defined himself), and not being FRIENDS with the farang (which is how I defined it).[/quote]
Disgusting or not, when a so called "respectable" Thai sees an older farang with a younger Thai, it is generally assumed the Thai is on the game. Often this is really the case, but it is unfortunate when it is not the case, because of course, there are lots of exceptions. People can't help what their cultural brain filters tell them. Some things we can't change.

Homintern wrote :


Cultural ties

I having a Korean homeboy age 22 and stay in Belgium 14 years ! Him still Korean and not adapted and never will i think.

Go China for business, talk Chinese, drink a lot, eat from 20.00 till 06.00 morning a menu gang 30 times and your a good business man.

Thailand : invest in chickens and you make a lot off money . :cheers:

Culture ties i love them ! :bigsmurf:

Get a grip. This is Thailand! People want boys and for the muscle queens it tops out at 30, 40 if exceptional. Have you seen the pitiful looking 40 year old go go boys? They are pathetic and hardly ever get offed.

I should have been more clear, I'm on about the scene in the western world, certainly the UK and I suspect the US and Europe. I absolutely agree, a Thai their 40s 50s 60s - I wouldn't have a clue where to look foe one who isn't a go go "man" let alone, ones who are.

That last part is shocking because Thais don't tip hairdressers!You really have to be joking there. I've seen Thais living in Western countries where tipping is not common tip their Thai hairdresser

That last part is shocking because Thais don't tip hairdressers!You really have to be joking there. I've seen Thais living in Western countries where tipping is not common tip their Thai hairdresser
No, I am not joking at all. It is not part of the Thai culture to tip haircutters. What Thais might do in the west is a different matter. Just the other day, I gave a 20 baht tip to the boy who had washed my hair three times, massaged my head, etc. and he literally looked at me like I was some kind of insane animal from another planet (this we a very Thai place). Of course, I also tipped the haircutter. I find it impossible not to tip something for a haircut, culturally ingrained.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php ... 745&st=75& (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42174&pid=452745&st=75&)

When I first moved to Thailand and was living in Bangkok, I didn't realize folks didn't tip hairdressers. Once I found a guy that cut my hair the way I liked, and could tell he knew what he was doing, I started tipping him B60 and the shampoo girl B40. I was treated like ROYALTY. By the time I realized the error of my ways, it was too late. The shampoo girls would compete for me when I walked in the door. :-)

I use a small gents barber just around the corner from Tower Inn and have done so for the past four years. A haircut, shave and head massage is Bt200 and something. I can't remember as I have always paid Bt300 and they never seem to be surprised that I was giving them a tip.

I use a small gents barber just around the corner from Tower Inn and have done so for the past four years. A haircut, shave and head massage is Bt200 and something. I can't remember as I have always paid Bt300 and they never seem to be surprised that I was giving them a tip.
Ask a poor or working class Thai what they tip their haircutter. (First learn the Thai word for NADA!)

I always tip the boys at CuteyBeauty (Thaniya Plaza) a few hundred baht. Sounds like that might be a bit too much.

I always tip the boys at CuteyBeauty (Thaniya Plaza) a few hundred baht. Sounds like that might be a bit too much.
Not a typical Thai hair place because of so many farang customers.

I always tip the boys at CuteyBeauty (Thaniya Plaza) a few hundred baht. Sounds like that might be a bit too much.
Not a typical Thai hair place because of so many farang customers.You seem obsessed, Jingthing, with proving that you are right. I checked with the current mem'sahib who says that tipping is indeed customary by Thais at Thai hairdressers in Thailand

Really not obsessed, but I do think I am right. Traditionally, tipping hair people is not a Thai custom. In fact, it is my understanding that Thais would consider the person doing the tipping downright stupid and inappropriate, like tipping a clerk at the motor vehicle office. Now how is that for gratitude, being thought an idiot?

Believe what you want, tip what you want ...

Some cultural differences are hard to accept or even believe, but they still exist no matter how strange it feels to you.
Like have you noticed that when you order soup to share at a non tourist Thai restaurant, they never bring you small bowls, unless you ask?

FRESH LINK FROM CHIANG MAI FLOWER SHOW (What more evidence do you need? This comes from Thais.)

TIPPING
It is customary to tip porters and hotel personnel who offer exceptional service. A ten to fifteen per cent tip is customary in most high-end restaurants and hotels.

It is not customary to leave a tip at lower scale restaurants, negotiated transport fares or services like hair dressers, but most people round-up a metered taxi fare and tip a hired driver according to the level of satisfaction. It is important to tip masseurs and spa therapists generously as many work mainly on piece-rate rather than salary.

http://www.royalfloraexpo.com/visitor_i ... rrival.asp (http://www.royalfloraexpo.com/visitor_information/arrival.asp)