Citibank Greed, Tripled fees....be aware of fees charged!

[travelerjim]

Sawatdee Friends,

In reviewing the thread about recent postings on www.thaivisa.com (http://www.thaivisa.com) . this one caught my eye (and indeed is catching my pocketbook) by the greed being shown by CitiBank and others in the exchange rates and fees being charged when using a CitiBank ATM card, bank cards... or credit cards in Thailand.

There must be better banks to do business with ....If you know of banks who have favorable fee structure for ATM or credit card usage when in Thailand, please share your recent experiences in response.

Thank you!

The thaivisa.com discussion thread follows:

ww.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=99987 .

Citibank Greed, Tripled fee

a recent poster stated:

I apologize to anyone who changed to Citibank because of my previous posts praising them. Prior to December there was no charge for international ATM transactions but there was a one percent foreign exchange fee. That fee has now gone from one percent to three percent. No where on their website does it say that. It still says one percent. They told me that I was notified via bank statement. I DON'T get bank statements because long ago I opted for wireless statements to save them money.

many replies follow his posting....I found the last one to be a possible answer to transfer of US Dollars to Bangkok Bank..at reasonable fees.

ww.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=99987&st=30 .

QUOTE(lopburi3 @ 2007-01-06 19:03:15)
The exchange rate is good for wire transfer. Check the Bangkok Bank rates and the TT is what you get when you send dollars and have the conversion take place in Thailand. If you have exchange take place outside of Thailand and send baht, yes, the exchange rate will be really bad.


I have my US bank make an electronic transfer, which I can originate on the Internet, to the Bangkok Bank branch in New York. As far as my bank is concerned, it's a domestic transfer since Bangkok Bank in NY has the transfer codes used by US banks.

It's available in my Bangkok Bank account in Pattaya usually within 24 hours. Very low charges. Exchange rates have been so bad and so volatile recently it's hard to tell how they compare with other methods. When things were more stable, the rates were the same as those currently available in Thailand.

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Do not click on the above spam post. Possible virus.

[Richsilver]

I have accounts at two US banks that charge no ATM fees, no conversion fees and have very favorable exchage rates. There is no reason to go through the exercise of wiring money to Thailand for everyday use.

Check out E-Trade and ING.

Additionally, ING pays a very favorable interest rate on their checking accounts with no minium balance.

I have 2 Citibank accounts that are not linked as one is for BF only. Its been very easy for me to transfer money from my account to BF account once a month. There was a $5 fee for using the internet "Global Transfer" function which I grudgingly paid to avoid having to walk my Lazy Ass down to the branch office to make the transfer. I was happy as a clam when Citi decided to drop the transfer fee in Oct or Nov.
In Dec they blocked all "Global Transfers" by internet. No warning or explanation. I had to go down to the branch to make the monthly transfer.
My Lazy Ass was not happy.

When I checked my transactions online I found the 3% fee hike. Again no warning or explanation.
Now I'm not happy.

I tried to call Citibank on the phone to find out what was going on. The guy in Bangalore didn't know but he was happy to try to sell me a Checking Protection Plan for one month free since I was such a good *longtime* customer.

Of course the joke is on him since the only reason I bank with McCitibank is that they bought out my old bank 4 years ago.

... you're complaining that Citibank has now joined the other gougers (ie. most banks). BTW a friend warned me about Krungsri Bank (Bank of Ayuddya) the other day. Bangkok Bank deduct 200 baht from an inwards Telegraphic Transfer. Krungsri Bank deducted a whopping 450 baht from his latest TT. I must have a word with my personal banker at Krungsri, Khun Wit at the Q House sub-branch in Soi Convent. Last time we chatted he told me he goes to Soi 2 for fun and has two "friends" (and I hope no Forum member is one of them and thinks he's the one and only)

[cottmann]

I have accounts at two US banks .....Check out ... ING. ...Additionally, ING pays a very favorable interest rate on their checking accounts with no minium balance.

ING is actually a Dutch financial conglomerate.

I just can't feel sorry for people complaining about high bank charges. In Japan it costs me a flat 630 yen to transfer money using any bank ATM - approximately $US5.25. Citibank charges me the same to cash a yen-denominated international bank draft, while the Tokyo branch of Bank of America charges a flat 2000 yen (approximately $US16.70) to cash one of their own international bank drafts. From the beginning of this year the Japanese Government has reduced the limit on the amount that we can transfer through ATMs (the standard way as banks don't give customers cheque-books here) from 2 million yen to 100,000 yen. Anything more and we have to front up at the counter with ID - and, of course, now pay the over-the-counter charges for moving money by dealing with people rather than ATMs. The official explanation is that this will cut down on money laundering by Yakuza and/or Japanese sending money overseas to fund Islamic terrorists! Monthly interest at Citibank on a balance of 1.5 million yen ($US12,500)? A measly 10 yen = 0.0836031 $US!

[Alan-old]

Not only does Citibank charge a whopping 3% "foreign fee" to access your own money with their ATM card, they charge $1.25 for using a non Citibank ATM each time. The charge for wring money into a Thai bank is a flat $30, so that's been my solution so far. Maybe a boycott of this greedy, customer unfriendly bank is in order.

As far as the global transfer, that still seemed to be working as of a couple of weeks ago.

[2lz2p]

I was using my Bank One ATM card here for $1.25 transaction fee -- BUT, Chase bought them out and after a few months of transitioning, my ATM use became very expensive - $3.00 for international use - 3% conversion fee -- lousy exchange rate. Based on RichSilver's experience with Etrade, I opened an online account with them and transfer funds from my Chase account (no fee involved). For me, this was less hassle than closing the Chase account and having to change the direct deposits, etc. etc. If you maintain a minimum $1,000 on deposit, there are no fees involved for checking account or ATM use. Since banks in Thailand do not charge an ATM fee for non-Thai bank cards, there is no fee involved. Etrade also offers decent exchange rates and does not charge a conversion fee. They also have a daily limit of $1,000 (however, since most Thai ATMs only allow 20,000 baht each use, you have to do several withdrawals if you want more than that in one day).

ING may be a Dutch conglomorate, BUT their US banking division is established under US banking laws and deposits are FDIC insured -- their savings account offers around 5% interest and is adjusted each time the Federal Reserve changes their prime lending rate. Their online banking account has recently been added (apparently offerred initially to existing savings account customers). They also offer $1,000 in overdraft protection at "no fee" - just interest on the amount until repaid (as I recall at the time I opened my account, this was around 12%).

Now on to credit cards -- I have one that charges only the 1% conversion fee imposed by Visa (Chase bank like many others now add another 2% to gouge even more from their card holders when they use the cards internationally). This Visa card is issued by my credit union, so is not available to nonmembers. However, I also have a credit card that was originally issued by MBNA and is sponsored by my State AAA organization - MBNA accounts were recently acquired by Bank of America. On this card I get a decent exchange rate and no conversion fee -not even the 1% - I can only guess that this is a benefit AAA insisted on as they are a large travel organization booking both domestic and international travel. Whatever the reason, no complaints from me.

With that being said, let me mention another cost you may incur using a credit card at some local establishments. When you present your card (at least US cards), the credit card slip will be in US dollars (at least with Chase, it does avoid the 3% conversion fee). Although this may sound like a way to avoid the conversion fee, be aware that the exchange rate can be from 1 to 3 baht less than the "going bank rate." The merchant collects the "hidden" conversion fee instead of the bank. You still get gouged -- so, you may want to inquire as to the exchange rate beforehand and determine which is most advantageous if your credit card charges a conversion fee -- at 1% baht would probably be better - at 3% and a lousy exchange rate, having the charge in dollars might be better.

Places that I have encountered using this practice DO NOT mention you can choose to have it done in baht instead of dollars. At Bangkok Hospital Pattaya and IT City (top floor of Tuckcom), their staff claim they can't "undo" the transaction once they have run it. At HomePro in the Carrefour building, they had someone that knew how to cancel the dollar tranaction. It was then redone in baht. I anticipate that this "service" will be pushed more and more with merchants as a means to offset their discount (I don't anticipate the shops that "add" the discount fee if you use a credit card to switch, then again think of how much they could make by making you pay the discount and get a conversion fee on the exchange rate - hmmmmmm). So, it may be a good idea when using a credit card to ask beforehand if the chage is in baht or dollars.

[Brad the Impala]

I have never been asked to make a credit card payment in Thailand in any other denomination than Baht. Perhaps it's a Pattaya phenomenon?

[wowpow]

Citibank UK have recently instituted charges for ATM withdrawals abroad in foreign currencies to your account currency.

"Cash withdrawal or purchase
If you make a cash withdrawal or purchase using your Citibank Card in a currency other than the currency of your account we will charge you the following commission for foreign exchange. The commission charge depends on the network used and the geographical location of the transaction.
тАв From a Citibank Sterling Current Account: 1.75% - 2.50% of the transaction value.
тАв From a Citibank Foreign Currency Account into a difference currency: 3.50% - 4.00% of the transaction value". Citibank

Previously there was no charge but the exchange rate was always less than that of Nationwide - who still offer free ATM withdrawals worldwide and the best exchange rates on ATM and Credit cards bless them - the acceptable face of banking - http://www.nationwide.co.uk/default.htm see http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bi ... 5397,71685 (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1106765397,71685), fort independent confirmation

[Alan-old]

I checked out the ING E savings account which pays 5% interest. However, they don't issue an ATM card. It's linked to your existing checking account. So, how would you withdraw your money without using the offending (e.g. Citibank) ATM card?

[Davey612]

I checked out the ING E savings account which pays 5% interest. However, they don't issue an ATM card. It's linked to your existing checking account. So, how would you withdraw your money without using the offending (e.g. Citibank) ATM card?

I think the ING checking account is so far for current ING customers. It seems they have not launched it for new customers yet. So, you may have to open the savings account first. Why don't you just call their 800 number. Oh, btw the checking account pays 3%, I believe. Better than the measly .00001% that some banks say is an interest bearing checking account.

[Sen Yai]

I have never been asked to make a credit card payment in Thailand in any other denomination than Baht. Perhaps it's a Pattaya phenomenon?

I have never been asked either. But I have often been asked to sign credit card slips in Bangkok where the amount has been converted to GBP (or SGD) automatically when the machine is smart enough to recognise the origin of my card. This has only happened in a few places - Central Dept Store for example, and usually surprises and amuses the sales staff too.

I have never asked for this to be reversed and have not worried about the exchange rate as the value of my purchases are usually low!

Some (many?) shops in Singapore also give an option of being billed in Sing dollars or your local home currency, but in my experience, they always asked first. The machine will quote the exchange rate to be used, and quite frankly, only a very naieve person would accept such a poor exchange rate.

I suspect that the system used in Thailand is no different and that there IS an option to choose Thai baht, but that it's just so much easier for the cashier to go with the default that it seems to the purchaser that there is not even a choice. Next time you are confronted with a credit card receipt to sign and it's not in baht, ask them to re-do it and to give you a receipt in baht to sign. If it's possible, watch the prompts on the machine as they swipe your card and start pushing buttons.

Some (many?) shops in Singapore also give an option of being billed in Sing dollars or your local home currency, but in my experience, they always asked first. The machine will quote the exchange rate to be used, and quite frankly, only a very naieve person would accept such a poor exchange rate.

I suspect that the system used in Thailand is no different and that there IS an option to choose Thai baht, but that it's just so much easier for the cashier to go with the default that it seems to the purchaser that there is not even a choice. Next time you are confronted with a credit card receipt to sign and it's not in baht, ask them to re-do it and to give you a receipt in baht to sign. If it's possible, watch the prompts on the machine as they swipe your card and start pushing buttons.

"Nearly always try to pay in the overseas currency not in Pounds.
There's a growing trend when spending abroad for the retailer to do the conversion to Pounds itself, giving you a poor exchange rate youтАЩve no control over. Always check that you won't be charged in pounds. That way, assuming youтАЩre using one of the top cards, youтАЩll get the best exchange rate possible."

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bi ... 5397,71685 (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?newsid1106765397,71685),

"Unfortunately, for 4 out of the 5 banks (Natwest, RBS, Halifax and IF), the card fee┬аapplies simply for being overseas. Yet with Lloyds, if you specifically ask the retailer (in your best French, Spanish or Japanese lingo) to charge you in sterling instead of the local currency, then you will avoid paying the flat fee.┬а ??In these cases youтАЩll be charged the vendorтАЩs own arbitrary exchange rate, and in many cases this can be worse than the bankтАЩs 2.75% load fee (which is also waived). ┬аHowever, at the same time youтАЩll be avoiding paying LloydтАЩs ┬г1 purchase fee, which is a sizeable percentage on small transactions. So when purchasing an item worth ┬г2, instead of being charged ┬г1.03 when paying in the foreign currency, youтАЩll just pay the vendorтАЩs charge which, even if it was 10%, would only be 10p in this case.??Therefore, for smallish purchases (under around ┬г50) youтАЩll actually be better of asking to pay in sterling, if you have to use your Lloyds debit card."

[2lz2p]

I suspect that the system used in Thailand is no different and that there IS an option to choose Thai baht, but that it's just so much easier for the cashier to go with the default that it seems to the purchaser that there is not even a choice. Next time you are confronted with a credit card receipt to sign and it's not in baht, ask them to re-do it and to give you a receipt in baht to sign. If it's possible, watch the prompts on the machine as they swipe your card and start pushing buttons.


Yes, there is an option to choose, which leads to my initial "gripe." In all 3 establishments where I encountered this system, the cashier never asked your preference. Enjoy the experience of asking the cashier to "re-do" it in baht. As I mentioned in my earlier post, they have not been trained in how to cancel the first transaction. At Bangkok Hospital Pattaya the cashier was adament that the charge was recorded and it could not be changed. At IT City I got a blank stare of no comrehension from the cashier, who then called over another (more experienced?) person who didn't understand the request either - they called in a third (manager?) who gave the same story as Bangkok Hospital Pattaya - already done, can't change it. However, at HomePro, the cashier also called on another more experienced person - she knew what I wanted and proceeded to cancel the first transaction and re-do it in dollars.

Personally, I blame the managment - it is to their advantage to earn the exchange fee. So, IMHO, they do not want to train their staff to ask first or, if requested, cancel and re-do the transaction. I personally do not use a credit card here for small purchases. Since I generally use a credit card for major purchases, I have started asking if the charge is in dollars or in baht before I hand them the card. It has been my experience that the credit card machine is always down by the cash register and the screen is not visible - so again, my recommendation is to ask first and if they respond that the charge will be in dollars, then request they do it in baht. I have not had a problem with that approach (so far :bom: )

[2lz2p]

I suspect that the system used in Thailand is no different and that there IS an option to choose Thai baht, but that it's just so much easier for the cashier to go with the default that it seems to the purchaser that there is not even a choice. Next time you are confronted with a credit card receipt to sign and it's not in baht, ask them to re-do it and to give you a receipt in baht to sign. If it's possible, watch the prompts on the machine as they swipe your card and start pushing buttons.


Yes, there is an option to choose, which leads to my initial "gripe." In all 3 establishments where I encountered this system, the cashier never asked your preference. Enjoy the experience of asking the cashier to "re-do" it in baht. As I mentioned in my earlier post, they have not been trained in how to cancel the first transaction. At Bangkok Hospital Pattaya the cashier was adament that the charge was recorded and it could not be changed. At IT City I got a blank stare of no comrehension from the cashier, who then called over another (more experienced?) person who didn't understand the request either - they called in a third (manager?) who gave the same story as Bangkok Hospital Pattaya - already done, can't change it. However, at HomePro, the cashier also called on another more experienced person - she knew what I wanted and proceeded to cancel the first transaction and re-do it in dollars.

Personally, I blame the managment - it is to their advantage to earn the exchange fee. So, IMHO, they do not want to train their staff to ask first or, if requested, cancel and re-do the transaction. I personally do not use a credit card here for small purchases. Since I generally use a credit card for major purchases, I have started asking if the charge is in dollars or in baht before I hand them the card. It has been my experience that the credit card machine is always down by the cash register and the screen is not visible - so again, my recommendation is to ask first and if they respond that the charge will be in dollars, then request they do it in baht. I have not had a problem with that approach (so far :bom: )

... even getting the transaction in the currency of your home country doesn't necessary prevent the gouging. Some banks will charge you the fee simply because the transaction was performed in a foreign country, irrespective of the currency

[dab69]

had almost gone for the latest ads by Citibank for their 5%
rate on e-savings accounts, and the option
of wiring excess money above the allowable $5000 to
bring into the country.
so what is the consensus of the board members now? etrade (savings)
and open another local account in TH?

I'm comfortable with my USA credit union SWIFTing large chunks of money to my SCB savings account once or twice a year for a US$50 fee, but if I were to do it over again today, I'd try what I've read on the forum (either here on Sawatdee or on ThaiVisa.com?):

Open a Bank of America account with online banking. Open a Bangkok Bank savings account in Thailand. Bank of America offers low-cost (free maybe?) online tranfers to other banks in the USA. Using the routing information for the Bangkok Bank branch in New York and the account number of the Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand, you can do an online transfer from BofA directly to Bangkok Bank and the money appears in the local Thailand Bangkok Banch branch's savings account. I forget the total price, but it is ridiculously low, something like a total of US$3?

Does Bangkok Bank have overseas branches in other countries? If not, then I guess this offer is limited to America.

Can you transfer money online from BofA to CitiBank using the local Thailand Citi account number like you can with Bangkok Bank?

[Geezer]

Bank of America charges me $3 to transfer funds to BKK Bank in New York, then BKK Bank charges $5 to transfer it to Pattaya - Total $8. All online. It works for me.

... is use Natioinwide, open up a Flexaccount and basically you get the commercial rate, no charges at all whatsoever. For instance, if today's rate is 70.30 to the UK pound, you will get near enough that. Similarly, Nationwide's travellers cheques are free from commission, and you get a good rate when you are in Thailand.

So no need to pay high fees - why don't you people who use the high chargers ditch them once and for all!