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September 19th, 2006, 12:57
HH, the leader of over a billion Roman Catholic sheep worldwide, Pope John Paul NOT has finally enterred the ring with what is apparently I can only think of as a publicity stunt. In a speech in Germany he mentioned "someone else's" remarks that Islam and violence seem to be linked.

It's amazing. Like it wouldn't generate a (growing!) furor. A person whose profession is known for the world's most sanitized speeches made this remark "accidentally"? Now both his office and himself have apologized. Hmmmm, just like a repeat of the satanic cartoons. Was this ineptitude purposeful? What is he trying to do? Make publicity? Say someone else's words just so he could say that he doesn't agree with them? And is it right to repeat someone elses words you don't agree with but not refute them then and there? Shouldn't he apologize for incompetence?

So now we have another furor raging. We've again apologized for bringing up a very serious concern (we can't talk about that!). And the paper news headline in front of me says "Quaida Declares War on Pope". It's getting worse. Who do we have to blame for all this?


Pope Issues a Rare 'Sorry'
Benedict XVI publicly apologizes over the reaction to his citation of material that faults Islam. Muslims say it doesn't go far enough.
LA Times Staff Writer
September 18, 2006

ROME тАФ In his first public appearance since igniting a firestorm in the Islamic world, Pope Benedict XVI on Sunday said he was "deeply sorry" that Muslims were offended and outraged by his use of a medieval citation critical of their faith, saying it did not "in any way express my personal thought."

The pope used his weekly Angelus blessing, at the papal summer residence in Castel Gandolfo outside Rome, to confront the most serious controversy of his 17-month-old papacy. For a pope, it was a highly unusual gesture of regret.

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By making a personal and public apology, Benedict hoped to calm the fury that exploded after he delivered a major address last week at Germany's University of Regensburg in which he quoted a 14th century Byzantine emperor who regarded some of the prophet Muhammad's teachings as "evil and inhuman."

Major Arab television networks gave considerable coverage to the pope's Sunday message; the Al Arabiya network carried it live. Initial reaction from Islamic groups was mixed, with many saying they still wanted a fuller apology.

In Somalia, gunmen shot an Italian nun to death outside a children's hospital in the capital. It was not immediately clear whether the shooting of Leonella Sgorbati, 64, was related to the papal controversy, but Somalian Islamic extremists had threatened to attack Catholics.

"We hope this remains an isolated act," Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told the Italian news agency ANSA. But he said he feared it could be "the fruit of the violence and irrationality" that have arisen from the pope's speech "without motive or justification."

The Italian Interior Ministry, meanwhile, said it had raised the level of the security alert in parts of the country in reaction to the international protests. National Police Chief Gianni De Gennaro, in a statement, called on authorities to be especially vigilant of Catholic sites, noting the presence in Italy of a radical Islamic minority.

At Castel Gandolfo, security was tighter than usual. Police sharpshooters overlooked the piazza where the crowd assembled to hear the pope. Guards screened the estimated 2,000 pilgrims, ushering them through metal detectors and checking purses and backpacks.

The pope, who had emerged on the balcony of his palazzo, had begun addressing the crowd when a huge downpour drenched everyone in sight. He chuckled and apologized for the weather, adding that rain was also a sign of God's work. Then he continued with the more serious matter at hand.

"I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims," he said, adding that the quote from Emperor Manuel II did not reflect his own opinion.

Benedict noted that on Saturday, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the No. 2 official in the Vatican, had offered a written clarification of the meaning of the pope's speech. The statement also relayed the pontiff's "deep regrets." But many of the pope's critics wanted to hear it from Benedict himself.

"I hope that this serves to appease hearts," Benedict said, "and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue, with great mutual respect."

Regardless of how Benedict's Sunday message is accepted, damage has been done to the Roman Catholic Church and its international mission, analysts said. In the minds of many Muslims, the pope has cemented what they see as his disdain for their faith, a perception that imperils inter-religious dialogue and could only further sour ties between Muslims and Christians at a time of global confrontation.

Several of the Islamic leaders who rose to condemn Benedict in the last several days have cast him as part of what they see as a vast Western conspiracy against Islam, and have put him in the same category as President Bush.

The pope's Regensburg lecture, to an audience of academics at the school where he taught theology in the 1970s, was a long and complex treatise on faith and reason. Among other elements, it said that violence could not be justified by religion, and he used the term jihad, which he defined as Islamic holy war, as an example.

The pope on Tuesday had quoted the emperor as saying: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

The speech was designed to provoke a theological debate, Vatican officials said.

Benedict's predecessor, John Paul II, apologized at least 10 times during his long papacy for sins committed by the Roman Catholic Church or its members тАФ including slavery, the conquest of indigenous populations in Latin America, and the Holocaust. But none of those acts of contrition was a personal statement about the consequences of the pope's own comments.

As Benedict began Sunday's apology, some in the audience shouted and clapped, suggesting either their approval or that they thought he did not need to qualify his remarks. Many of the pope's supporters believe his words were taken out of context and agree with his more cautious approach to Islam and interfaith dialogue.

Across the Islamic world, the response was one of skepticism. One official of the Muslim Brotherhood, one of the largest and most influential Islamic movements in the Middle East, was quoted as saying the pope's statement was a "good step." But others were not satisfied.

September 19th, 2006, 15:11
Interesting question, I have no idea what the pope was trying to do, say or project. But it certainly has landed him in the hot seat. Maybe just the unintelligent ramblings of a 79 yr old.

Aunty
September 19th, 2006, 15:56
Perhaps he was telling the truth about how Islam was spread? What are we saying now, that we can no longer be the sons and daughters of the West because it might upset Muslims?? Now that IS outrageous.

I don't agree with what the Pope has to say about homosexuality, but I have no problem with him saying it.

And furthermore, I'm not going to put on an unseemly and disgraceful display of cheap and indulgent emotions by ranting and raving in the streets because he might say it. And I'm certainly not going to go around murdering Catholic priests and nuns or burn down catholic churches.

If Islam was spread at the point of the sword, then the Moslem's need to get over it, and start to learn some fundamentals about their religion.

Bob
September 20th, 2006, 05:54
While we'll likely never hear the real explanation, all I want to know is why the Pope said what he said (i.e., what was the point he was trying to make and why didn't somebody have the intelligence to know that the comments would spark a nasty reaction). Sheer stupidity in my view.

September 20th, 2006, 07:08
Doesn't the fellah realise what a complete failure freedom of speech has been. The First Amendment ? Phooey. Next thing we know people will be publishing cartoons mocking the prophet (and well-known paedophile) Mohammed

September 20th, 2006, 16:32
No reason why the Vatican should give a shit about the American constitution, but the pope is certainly displaying about as much diplomacy as all the yanks put together.

September 21st, 2006, 00:56
It seems odd that the Pope has forgotten the history of his own church in the Middle East. We are still living through the legacy of the crusades.
The fact is that the three monotheistic religions all have murky histories when it comes to violence and irrational behaviour.This is why many of us find aspects of Buddhism attractive; it is not "Buddhist" to convert- you take it or leave it.
Not that all Buddhists are free of violent impulses of course- as we see in Burma.

September 21st, 2006, 11:24
Exactly Nelson, spot on. Incoherent ramblings of a 79yr old. Someone should put a stop to it. Get a gagging order.

September 21st, 2006, 18:48
No reason why the Vatican should give a shit about the American constitution, but the pope is certainly displaying about as much diplomacy as all the yanks put together.My comments were by way of being a gloss on what Bob had written. As we know from his contributions toi the threads on the coup in the Gay Thailand Forum, he's usually such a booster of democracy - apparently when it suits him

September 21st, 2006, 18:50
I have thought the Buddha's precepts against wearing rose-coloured spectacles (the Second Noble Trurh) would be a deterrent against becoming a Buddhist for people like Nelson

Bob
September 22nd, 2006, 04:04
My comments were by way of being a gloss on what Bob had written. As we know from his contributions toi the threads on the coup in the Gay Thailand Forum, he's usually such a booster of democracy - apparently when it suits him

Lol. Once I figure out what you're saying, Hom, I'll give you my 2 cents.

September 23rd, 2006, 17:17
Once I figure out what you're saying, Hom, I'll give you my 2 cents.That's my point Bob. You have difficulty figuring out what you're saying, let alone what anyone else says