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View Full Version : Face, Guile, And The Commerce Of Living



January 20th, 2006, 06:53
By Falangdude on http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/

Is the local pop culture soul-less? Is Asian interaction more shallow than what we take for granted in the west? Pop culture anywhere is easy to mock, but it's not easy to find anything but pop culture in Asia.

You can see it in the eyes тАУ the guile. Westerners are guileless. We are unarmed. Over here, what you see is also what you get, but all that you ever see is guile. There is nothing of interest underneath the guile. It seems a fundamentally materialistic mind space, greed and aversion and apathy the root of all transactions. A smile is a request for interest. A turned head is a snub. No eye contact is a lack of interest, or care. Business of business for business. No one smiles at panhandlers, panhandlers are professionally pathetic, everything neat and tidy and utterly useless. Hearty cackles and tight black eyes, every penny in the heart pinched. Spent only for gain, among allies. Allies, not friends.

There is no interest in education. That is saying the same thing. Truth holds no value. Same. All movements are commerce, or meaningless. There are few gardens or parks or beautiful buildings, especially here in the Philippines, unless in large private acreage to show status. The arts are barely alive in Asia, unless you count copying. No live band writes their own material, painters copy from photographs, and there is nearly no literature produced. Philosophy is not here. Never discussed here. The good, the true, and the beautiful, have no widespread following. There are no recognizable morals of truth and justice тАУ lawyers and police openly frame foreigners and the disadvantaged, as if it was

obviously proper. No recognizable allegiance to any consensual reality, scientific or otherwise. No recognizable living arts. The cultures of Thailand and the Philippines amount to the importation of currently fashionable cell phones. Guile, with nothing underneath the guile тАУ means without an ends. After the Beemer and the big hair and the long painted nails and the secret phone numbers, then what? ItтАЩs got to be lonely in there, wherever there is, and I suspect no one will ever know, or question, or care. Trappings are wealth here. People get rich in order to be rich, in order to exacerbate their alienation, to drive the stake as deeply as they can into their pain, to commit their insecurities to suicide, to become as inauthentic as possible, as nonexistent as possible. As untouchable as possible. As rich as possible.

There is nothing to question. Nothing inside, or outside. Just relax, get your titillations, get as much status while you can, and donтАЩt worry about your inevitable meaningless death.

Even love is a business proposition here, a bargain. A temporary bargain.

There is another way. There is a better way. There are reasons to wake up in the morning that are not about gathering or gaining or displaying or cultivating or changing anything about one's place in the scheme of things. Awe, appreciation, love, require not a millimeter of motion. Guile is too much work for its result. Guile marches, but always backwards. It requires a sick culture to re-enforce in full adults. Asia is sick.

The popular cultural values of SE Asia are so shallow and developmentally impaired as to be plainly diseased.

Expats who live here eventually refuse to do any business with Asians. People who date here either give up any of their own values as irrelevant, thus denying the possibility of a shared consensual reality with Asians, or donтАЩt expect much in the way of shared values. Unless the woman is foreign educated or otherwise worldly beyond her culture, she will be myopic beyond all credulity, her only interests relating to boy hunting or family. Her mental skills, developed for those reasons, or not at all. Nothing outside of that exists.

Delirious with endless visions of gain, SE Asia has gone blind to worth. Human connections seem not so much as grounded in value here, but used for valuable goods and experiences. Boyfriends are commodities. Everything is used for a purpose, but the purpose seems so obviously a tangent from what is important. Power more important than the love and good uses it seeks. Status more important than the friendships it could open the door to. The goals are tangential to anything truly valuable. Get married to be married. Pray so that you pray. Empty rituals with no respect for the soul they could foster.

It would be satire, if enough people were in the audience to laugh. Everyone is on stage.

After the rage, should be peace. There is no peace here тАУ the business oriented eyes never shine back, wide and interested and naked and wild and present and without agenda. You could wait forever, all youтАЩd ever see is guile and all itтАЩs devilish and seductive pretences. Honesty is guile here. Everything for a purpose. It is maddening. Once you see it and see it clearly, see seduction as seduction, see indifference as indifference, see aggression as aggression, once you see it, it is hopelessly maddening.

It is lonely when you canтАЩt touch anything. There is nothing like that moment of looking into the eyes of a lover in moments of ecstatic love. That is polarly opposite to looking into they eyes of someone while they lie to you, or while they lie to themselves while they lie to you. The spark isnтАЩt there. It feels different. ItтАЩs the opposite of bliss and joy and communion. It hurts. You just want to slap them, or something. Anything but just sit there, knowing that the situation is totally beyond your control, hopeless. There will be no spark. There will be no reason, no purpose. Yes, IтАЩm fine, and you?

When everything is for advantage, trust relies on treaties and agreements. It has to be chosen, created, then reconciled to. If being trustworthy were as natural as concern, and we were to naturally expect the same from others, what would that look like? Not at all like guile. Trust is just another weapon here, another handle for manipulation. It has no meaning other than that.

I have a few simple questions for people I wonder about.
1) What kind of boyfriend would you like?
2) What does love feel like, to you?

If the answer to #1 is something like тАЬsomeone who loves me for who I amтАЭ, I know that the person wants love more than someone to love. Why not say instead тАЬsomeone who will let me love them unconditionally all the timeтАЭ?

If the answer to #2 is anything about receiving care and attention, IтАЩll know that the


person has little feeling for the giving of love тАУ what it feels like to give love that comes from inside her. There is probably not much love there, that is why she looks for someone to fill her with it.

So thatтАЩs it. Asia is someone that wants to be loved, but doesnтАЩt even know what love really is. Love has nothing to do with fashionable cell phones or big hair. When is Asia going to start giving? The guileful never truly give.


Stickman's thoughts:

Scary, because everything you say is oh so true!

It is interesting because there is a lot of truth there but what a solely negative view. I wonder how many and what range of Thao people this person has met. I suspect that he is looking for Western Romantic love ( a fairly recent invention ) and that is not the Thai way. I find myself constantly amazed at the degree of affection that many Thai straight boys have. A recent example - in a bar a friend was talking about going to Bangkok Pattaya Hospital early yesterday morning. His friend said to, the Thai boy sitting with them, you cvan take him and he agreed even though he worked until 5 a.m. At 8 o'clock he picked up my friend and took him to the hospital from Jomtien, waited an hour and a half and brought him home. He absolutely refused any payment " I do for friend!"

January 20th, 2006, 11:38
At the risk of being flamed...why doesn't this happy person go home?

January 20th, 2006, 16:21
Many locals seem to have a cardboard box personality - there are walls, a facade, but nothing inside.

Others have hid their true personality and are afraid to show it to anyone. For all the socialising and fun in Thailand many Thais have been cheated and abused so many times they keep the guard up at all times, a guard decorated by a smile and pleasant manners.

Who do you trust? Many Thais have been let down by parents, teachers, friends, lovers, bosses, just about anyone. This is a harsh society for common people. Manipulation, power abuse and trickery reigns.

It is POSSIBLE to find sincerity and someone with a personality more than one inch deep here, but it isn't easy.

January 20th, 2006, 22:22
Funny.
People say the same thing about people from LA.

January 21st, 2006, 00:25
Diseased culture... Shared consensual reality... Honesty is guile in asia.... Is it a piece of spiritual propaganda? If the guy wants deep meaning, he should become a monk. My bet is that his asian wife has been cheating on him, and he's having a mid-life, and wants to bring other people down to his miserable existance. No wonder he's so lonely

Brad the Impala
January 21st, 2006, 03:05
Oh dear. This guy would be unhappy anywhere. He makes me think of the skydivers of Pattaya. In an attempt to escape the reality of themselves, they move there, and find their shadow has moved too, so the sun never shines on them, and they wonder why, and blame someone else.

January 21st, 2006, 12:27
Methinks y'all in your rush to simplify and categorize are TOTALLY missing the point of the post.
It is a grand tradition for OUTSIDERS to provide critiques of cultures.
Only OUTSIDERS can have the perspective to see some things others can't.
I am not saying at all that the poster has written absolute truth.
What he has presented is a very valid perspective and reaction to modern Asian culture, and it certainly is THOUGHT PROVOKING, that is, if you are open to take the energy to think.

January 21st, 2006, 19:50
I think there's a common knee-jerk reaction going on - "If you don't like it here, go home". There's also the misperception that because an assessment is being made about significant differences, where Thailand doesn't come across as being as attractive as the West, that that's all there is to say. Finally I'm guessing that 99% or more of the members of this Forum chose to live in or visit Thailand. There are however a significant number of Westerners in Thailand - diplomats and executives of multinationals are just two examples - who had little or no choice about living in Thailand and have little or no choice about leaving

January 22nd, 2006, 18:07
There are however a significant number of Westerners in Thailand - diplomats and executives of multinationals are just two examples - who had little or no choice about living in Thailand and have little or no choice about leaving

It really stretches it to suggest a victimization mandate is justified on grounds, such as a westerner is forced to work in a country against their will.

Stop pretending to be a slave of some evil brute. You have free will. Time to change employer, change home, or change antidepressants, because at least one of the three clearly isn't working.

January 22nd, 2006, 18:41
There are however a significant number of Westerners in Thailand - diplomats and executives of multinationals are just two examples - who had little or no choice about living in Thailand and have little or no choice about leaving

It really stretches it to suggest a victimization mandate is justified on grounds, such as a westerner is forced to work in a country against their will.

Stop pretending to be a slave of some evil brute. You have free will. Time to change employer, change home, or change antidepressants, because at least one of the three clearly isn't working.
Are you some kind of Ayn Rand groupie, or what?

Dodger
January 22nd, 2006, 20:28
The smiles on their faces are as REAL as the stars in the sky and reflect a warm inner peace and enthusiasm for life and friendship that surpasses anything I've ever witnessed in my lifetime. Guile (IMO) is a common perception from those who have deceived THEMSELVES by desiring more than they are worth.

Thai's are Buddhist and have been taught from birth to live within the moment. Their purpose in life isn't to understand YOU...it's to understand themselves, while focusing on selflessness and interdependence as cornerstones of their belief. Their SMILES are a reflection of this self awareness and not intended to manipulate YOU into thinking they believe that YOU are as aware of yourself, because chances are, you're not.

In the West we start each day by reading the newspaper to submerse our senses in the things that happened in the past, and then immediately shift our thoughts and energies toward our dreams and aspirations for that day, and even beyond in the future, without any thought or dedication towards THE MOMENT. Thai Buddhists live in the middle-road (the NOW) and chose to practice meditation (looking at themselves) which sometimes turns them invisible to the naked western eye.

We could say that meditation doesn't have a reason or doesn't have a purpose. In this respect it's unlike almost all other things we do except perhaps making music and dancing. When we make music we don't do it in order to reach a certain point, such as the end of the composition. If that were the purpose of music then obviously the fastest players would be the best. Also, when we are dancing we are not aiming to arrive at a particular place on the floor as in a journey. When we dance, the journey itself is the point, as when we play music the playing itself is the point. And exactly the same thing is true in meditation. Meditation is the discovery that the point of life is always arrived at in the immediate moment.тАЭ

When a Thai person says "You think too much" that's exactly what they mean. No offense intended. It's just their way of trying to tell you that you are in the process of deceiving YOURSELF through your own words and remaining blind to your own blindness in the process.

I believe that behind the Thai SMILE is someone with the capacity to LOVE in a much truer and richer sense than anything we could possibly experience in the West, with the ackowledgement that LOVE, in a Thai's eyes, is the EFFECTS of being with someone who truly cares for them OVER TIME...not the CAUSE.

I'm afraid I don't see the empty void behind the SMILES the author of the story refers to, conversely, I see a people who are deeply in-tune with life with a burning need to love and be loved. The GUILE (or deceit) that the author refers to is also the EFFECTS versus the CAUSE. The effects of him (the farang) not having the capacity to be honest with himself. The CAUSE...he was probably thinking too much!

OK...I need my coffee now...Hmmmmmmmmmm

January 22nd, 2006, 20:57
Their SMILES are a reflection of this self awareness and not intended to manipulate YOU into thinking they believe that YOU are as aware of yourself, because chances are, you're not.
Now there's some genuine nonsense. Every academic study of the Thai smile says that it is a form of conflict avoidance. If I smile really, really hard any interpersonal tensions will defuse and you won't hit me. It has nothing to do with inner harmony and certainly not with amusement, humour, pleasure or self-awareness

Dodger
January 22nd, 2006, 23:02
Homintern.

I didn't intend to suggest that the Thai SMILE always reflects happiness...nor would I agree that the SMILE is solely intended to thwart off conflict, as the meaning(s) behind the Thai SMILE is much broader in definition.

Thailand is known as "The Land Of Smile". It's an ad man's dream copy. The catch phrase wasn't written by advertising people, it was invented by travelers. A smile is infections, as we find ourselves doing a lot of when we're on their soil.

Take a look at passengers on a sweltering bus waiting for the traffic to move. The waitress nearing the end of her twelve-hour shift might not be so motivated to smile either. Inpractice, there are many social meanings for the Thai smile. When greeting a tourist, fundamental Thai values of hospitality are behind that big grin. Though the oft-present tourist cynic insists that behind the Thai smile is greed, this is true of few Thai. The kind people the tourist meets along the way; including staff at the hotel, restaurant, bar and shop; are genuinely happy to meet the foreigner. Most Thai have other motive that the sincere desire that foreigners enjoy themselves in Thailand.

The smile is a means of ensuring smooth social interaction. It can get the Thai out of almost any bad situation. Westerners often feel compelled to make verbal explanations and comments when committing a social faux pas, but Thai do not. They use the Thai Smile. The smile us also appropriate in ways that might not be considered so in the West. For instance, in a conflict, it is used to defuse the situation and ask for pardon. For a grave social error or conflict, he may also say Excuse me/I'm sorry with the hands-together.

The Thai smile and laugh relieves anxiety. Should the tourist trip on the pot holed sidewalks, or fall off his bar chair, or drop his box containing the expensive Celadon vase- the Thai may laugh. It isn't that they lack sympathy; the laughter relieves their tension. But the social message is clear: Don't take anything too seriously. When confronted with a situation the foreigner doesn't feel warrants smiles (or even Laughter) from Thai around him, he needn't (and shouldn't) get mad. He should take a deep breath and smile back!

When I made the statement that a behind a Thai smile is a warm and friendly person, I meant it. It's the "nature" of their smile that requires understanding.