Thailand to tax foreign pensions???

[maump]

this article opines that Thailand will tax foreign pensions for retirees that reside in Thailand more than 180 days a year....

https://www.expatden.com/thailand/thailand-foreign-earned-income-tax/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=New+2024+Thailand+Income+Tax+Regulatio ns%3A+You+Now+Have+to+Pay+Thai+Taxes+on+Foreign-Earned+Income&utm_campaign=New+2024+Thailand+Income+Tax+Regulati ons%3A+You+Now+Have+to+Pay+Thai+Taxes+on+Foreign-Earned+Income (https://www.expatden.com/thailand/thailand-foreign-earned-income-tax/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=New+2024+Thailand+Income+Tax+Regulatio ns%3A+You+Now+Have+to+Pay+Thai+Taxes+on+Foreign-Earned+Income&utm_campaign=New+2024+Thailand+Income+Tax+Regulati ons%3A+You+Now+Have+to+Pay+Thai+Taxes+on+Foreign-Earned+Income)

[ikarus]

Formally speaking, everybody who stays in Thailand for more than 180 days a year is counted as Thai resident for tax purposes. This includes people who stay on retirement extensions visas. All foreign money brought to Thailand are taxable in Thailand if you are Thai resident for tax purposes. There was a loophole that if money stayed outside Thailand for more than 1 year, they are exempted from taxation. This loophole is now closed. It remains to be seen how expats will be treated in this situation. Double taxation treaty or not, imagine you need to bring several million baht to buy condo. How are you going to prove that it was taxed in your country in previous years? Just imagine to deal with Thai beaucrocracy...

[Dodger]

Double taxation treaty or not, imagine you need to bring several million baht to buy condo. How are you going to prove that it was taxed in your country in previous years? Just imagine to deal with Thai beaucrocracy...

If your home country (the country where your money was transferred from) is one of the 61 countries that signed the Double Taxation Agreement with Thailand in 1996 there is nothing more that needs to be proven - and every member of this forum comes from one of those 61 countries.

If, to your point, Thailand started demanding proof that taxes were paid on the MILLIONS of international money transfers being processed every year Thailand's Revenue Department would be buried within the first 24 hours.

Watch this video if you want to relax:

https://www.google.com/search?q=utube+tax+residents+in+thailand&rlz=1C1CHBD_enTH825TH825&oq=utube+tax+residents+in+thailand&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l3j33i22i29i30.8140j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:dc8faf0c,vid:V5987-sMzUU,st:0

[Gaybutton]

Moral panic takes over the expats and Thai taxation furor

By Barry Kenyon

September 23, 2023

The fear that retirees and other non-working expats are about to be taxed on their overseas pension income has created a field-day for internet warriors, click baiters and nervous long-term visa holders. But calmer reality suggests it may be premature to start packing your bags in utter disgust.

The Thai revenue department has recently stipulated that, from the next calendar year, “earned income from overseas” will be liable for personal income tax for those (Thais or foreigners) spending up to 180 days a year in the country. This is, in fact, an old revenue rule but has been updated to close the loophole in which those liable delayed transferring their income until a later year.

To pay personal income tax you need a TIN (tax identification number) issued by the revenue department. Without that there can be no income tax liability and, one assumes, most foreign retirees have never heard of a TIN and certainly haven’t got one. The latest move is clearly aimed at currency traders, those involved in stock market trading and anyone holding earned foreign income in an offshore account for over twelve months to avoid tax. They have always been the target.

The new ruling has nothing whatever to do with your visa which is irrelevant to tax status anyway. Let’s take a simple example. Those holding an Elite visa or an annual retirement extension might, or might not, spend more than six months a year in Thailand. There is evidence that many Chinese holders of Elite regularly come in and out of Thailand but do not clock up 180 days per annum. On the other hand, a tourist Brit or an American (amongst others) could easily reach 180 days by entering the country by air several times via the 30 days visa-exempt rule, extending at immigration and making an occasional visa run.

Thus the issue is whether or not the revenue department has now extended the residence rule (180 days in a year) to include permanent sun worshippers, expats married or with families to support, adult students learning Thais and a diverse assembly of pensioners in their 60s, 70s and beyond. Thai law and financial regulations are often kept deliberately vague and the 100 words of the Thai language devoted to the subject in question in the latest revenue announcement certainly don’t provide a definitive answer. Nor do the translations in English provided on social media.

Many active on social media are advising panicky expats to wait for a broader explanation from the revenue. Fine, except that there may never be one. If the sole purpose is to catch those TIN holders who have delayed sending their income to Thailand, there’s nothing more to say. But if there is a real attempt to punish financially all expats, as suggested, one can only imagine the bureaucratic chaos, daily huge queues at revenue offices (with too few staff to cope and knowing nothing of double taxation treaties) and the total collapse of international financial confidence. Within days, a Thai general would appear on the TV, accompanied by somber military music, to explain why tanks were in the streets of Bangkok. Apologies for the inconvenience.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/moral-panic-takes-over-the-expats-and-thai-taxation-furor-441317

[scottish-guy]

By “ex-pats” you mean immigrants?

[Gaybutton]

By “ex-pats” you mean immigrants?

I wish it did mean that, but it really doesn't. We are more considered guests in the country. We can get things such as driving licenses and bank accounts, but we are not eligible for much of anything else. There is no do-able path to citizenship (except for the very wealthy). We have to meet financial criteria. We can't get dual citizenship. If we are on the retirement visa we cannot work other than certain types of volunteer work and we can't get work permits. We can't get a Thai passport. Our visas can be revoked at any time and we can be deported without trial.

To my way of thinking, immigrant status would allow for being able to do most of the things the above says we can't. When so many immigrants went to live in the USA, especially during the late 1800s to early 1900s, all a great many had was the shirts on their back. Even today, people whether legally or illegally trying to enter the USA, that still is all they have. It doesn't work that way for expats in Thailand.

[2lz2p]

By “ex-pats” you mean immigrants?

Most Expats and other foreigners, unless they obtain Thai Permanent Residence status, are in Thailand on a continuing basis by extending their stay permitted by their "Non-Immigrant" Visa. For those that wish to apply for Thai Permanent Residency, visit: https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?page_id=1744

[Armando]

If we are on the retirement visa we cannot work other than certain types of volunteer work and we can't get work permits
Can you let us know which type of volunteer work is permissible? My understanding has always been that work as a volunteer even for a charity is not permitted. Thanks

[Dodger]

........My understanding has always been that work as a volunteer even for a charity is not permitted. Thanks

PERFECT!!!

I'm here strictly for FUN.

[Daveuk]

I work for a charity whenever I’m in Pattaya and contribute funds draining my bank account. Its name is The Asian Boys Appreciation Society.

[bkkguy]

I work for a charity whenever I’m in Pattaya and contribute funds draining my bank account. Its name is The Asian Boys Appreciation Society.

I thought that was known as the white man's burden. or noblesse oblige, but I am sure it is "hard" work for you anyway :)

[latintopxxx]

TABAS,,,even has a nice ring to it...put it on t-shirts...

[homeseeker]

Formally speaking, everybody who stays in Thailand for more than 180 days a year is counted as Thai resident for tax purposes. This includes people who stay on retirement extensions visas. All foreign money brought to Thailand are taxable in Thailand if you are Thai resident for tax purposes. There was a loophole that if money stayed outside Thailand for more than 1 year, they are exempted from taxation. This loophole is now closed. It remains to be seen how expats will be treated in this situation. Double taxation treaty or not, imagine you need to bring several million baht to buy condo. How are you going to prove that it was taxed in your country in previous years? Just imagine to deal with Thai beaucrocracy...

Yes, it is correct that pensioners on retirement visas are considered Thai resident for tax purposes. However, over a couple of decades or so the Revenue Dept in Thailand has a matter of practice not expected or asked that such retirees if -subject to a double taxation agreement which most are- to either file tax returns or to pay tax. Many instances of pensioners here in Thailand going to different tax offices and been sent away and told they are not expected to file or pay taxes.
Emphasis that this is generally speaking a practice of the Revenue Dept in Thailand.

That is why many web sites have and still do advertise that Thailand is good to retire as foreign retirees do not need to pay tax on overseas monies. etc

Now of course some such pensioners have persuaded the tax offices to accept their tax returns and pay tax on a voluntary basis:
"up to you"

New rules will come into force from 1 January 2024 and we await if it changes anything for pensioners who reside here in Thailand more than 180 days.

But to repeat as matters currently stand pensioners are not expected to file tax returns or pay tax.