Club Freedom

This may not be of interest or value to everyone - but for those that may want to have that extra trip each year to LOS but currently cant afford it, please consider:

www.clubfreedom.biz/cf.cgi/peterluke/sp1.html (http://www.clubfreedom.biz/cf.cgi/peterluke/sp1.html)


If it works for you then you have spent $150 wisely

If it doesnt work for you then all you have lost is $150

And if it is no interest to you at all then all you have lost is a few minutes of reading time

Personally I an VERY happy with the results of the past week with Club Freedom

[Bob]

An obvious pyramid scheme that reeks of illegality.

An obvious pyramid scheme that reeks of illegality.


Thus speaks the Bob - voice of authority and the font of all knowledge regarding networking

Obviously not for you then Bob

Perhaps others may have differing opinions than you on the legality and difference between MLM and pyramid schemes

Lets ask AMWAY shall we? Still around after all these years

As I said - if its not for you then pass. No arm twisting here





Section 65AAC of the Trade Practices Act makes it unlawful for a corporation to participate in a pyramid selling scheme. A corporation also must not induce, or attempt to induce, a person to participate in a pyramid selling scheme. Under a pyramid scheme consumers are recruited to join it and encourage others to join. Generally, people pay to join and are promised a commission for introducing others. This often looks like an attractive investment with the potential to generate a lot of money later on. However, more often than not, participants end up losing their initial investment.

The scheme could be an illegal pyramid scheme if a proposal offers financial rewards for recruiting people, combined with:

*
offers of goods or services of little or doubtful value that serve only to promote the scheme
*
an initial outlay of money to purchase large quantities of goods, or
*
no goods or services being offered for sale.

Generally, the way pyramid schemes work is that promoters want people to join the scheme, to recruit more people who will in turn recruit others, with each participant paying money to those further up the pyramid. People are often convinced to join by family members or friends, but there is no guarantee that they will recoup their initial investment. They may not be able to find other willing participants, or could have legal action taken against them if they participate in or do induce others to join.

Ultimately it is for a court to determine whether a particular scheme is a pyramid one, as prohibited under the Act. Customers need to be wary of opportunities presented to them in ways similar to those described above. They need to keep in mind that if they do participate and induce others to join, they may breach the Act regardless of whether they set up the scheme originally. What the Act makes unlawful is the making of promises to induce or persuade a person to enter the scheme or to purchase products by a corporation, or in some circumstances a person.
Differences between pyramid selling and multi-level marketing

Consumers often ask the ACCC about the difference between a pyramid selling scheme and a multi-level marketing scheme. Sometimes the differences might not be obvious to the average consumer.

Pyramid selling schemes rarely include the legitimate and regular retailing of products. Instead, they provide rewards for introducing new participants. Saturation point is very quickly reached and later recruits have little chance of recovering their money. Legitimate marketing schemes only provide rewards based on genuine product sales.

Pyramid sales promoters may attempt to disguise their schemes by selling goods and services that are overpriced, of poor quality, difficult to sell or of little value.

Participants who induce others to join pyramid schemes, as well as the initial promoters, risk breaching s. 65AAC of the Act.

There are two questions that may help consumers identify legitimate multi-level marketing schemes:

* Are the rewards for participants in the scheme purely based on product sales (by either themselves or others they introduce to the scheme)?
* Are the products genuine products of real value, and of a type that normally will be used and purchased time and time again by a consumer, and not at a grossly inflated price?

If you answer yes to both questions, it is likely that the scheme is a legitimate multi-level marketing scheme.


So what is actually on offer here? Travel vouchers offered by eCash International and a network of Global Travel Agencies

The kind that your bank offers through its rewards programs - you remember the banks - the ones that induce you to spend up big on your credit cards to get points towards redeeming things - points that normally are taken away from you just before you get enough to qualify for that toaster or that $40 travel voucher

Hmm - are you saying the banks are illegal pyramid schemes? Probably :blackeye:

[Bob]

I said nothing personal about you nor will I.

Having reviewed the site at your suggestion, my comments are just my impression of what I read.
There's the old saying that "anything too good to be true probably isn't." What's on the very first
page of the website? Well:
(1) The very top reads: "Vacations Unlimited only $150.00."
(2) Farther down it says: "A vacation and cash for you and your family whenever you want for only $150."

If somebody actually believes you can get a "vacation and cash for you and your family whenever you want for $150.00", then
I may have a bridge for you at an unbelievably low price.

Looks rather obvious to me. I didn't mention Amway before but I think the parallel is also pretty obvious.

My bank says that if I spend $125,000 on my credit card then they will give me a $1000 travel voucher through their rewards program.

Here I have spent $150 and so far have received a $150 travel voucher - redeemable any time over the next 24 months through reputable travel agents. And I have no more requirement to spend any more money than that

I wonder who the crooks are?

Worth a chance? Personalty I think so

I spend more than that on lotto in a month

I spend more than that in LOS in one day on holidays

[Bob]

I wish you well and hope you get at least $150.00 of value for the $150.00 you spent.

Bob - obviously you have not understood what I said above

I paid $150.00 and immediately received a travel voucher to the value of $150.00 which can be redeemed anytime in the next 24 months. I am not out of pocket anything (well a $15 admin fee if you want to count that - I put that down as Club Membership fees)

Now I have the opportunity (if I wish) to increase the value of the voucher by informing others about Club Freedom

Which is exactly what I am doing

You are all big girls and boys now - decide for yourself if you want to take advantage of an opportunity or not.

[Surfcrest]

Feeding the membership another steamy pile of b.s.


Which is exactly what I am doing

again..........................

I can be somewhat naive, but the name Ponzi comes to mind. If this works for you, so be it.

Hmm no not for me, I don't even collect voucher/stamps in the supermarket. Though I became suspicious when a queue of Filipino maids started collecting at cheque out, asking people for their stamps. On closer inspection it turned out they were getting air-miles, and you needed 50 000 of them to get to Manila and back in economy, so to get sufficient stamps you needed to do a years shopping at a rate and price that would even put Harrods to shame, so like all the other expats I gladly handed them over.

Is this the same as pyramidal schemes. Where everyone contributes but only one or two people gets it all?

For those naysayers above worried about the legitimacy of Club Freedom Travel here is the last news bulletin released yesterday:


Fantastic News: Announcing our Global Travel Agent - RCI Global Vacation Network.

We thank you for your patience over the last week, because we stated in our last newsletter we would have our preferred travel agents website available as of last weekend and that would have been achieved. But isnтАЩt our journey of life interesting when you expect bigger and better things to come to you as it has this week.

After many and involved negotiations we are proud to announce that Clubfreedom Travel has secured an agreement with RCI Global Vacation Network.

By the way, just in case you did not know, RCI have been around since 1974 and are a global provider of leisure travel services to businesses and consumers, and the worldwide leader in vacation exchange. They are also an accredited travel agency providing first class service in regard to all your travel needs. . . Flights. . . car hire. . . hotels. . . cruises. . . resorts. . . travel insurance. . . etc.

Take a look at the improved benefits our members now receive for their one-time payment of US$165.00:

* Free Membership to RCI. . . this normally costs US$85.00 per year.


* Access to fantastic savings on vacation deals sent directly to your mail box on a regular basis.


* Your very own personal member's area for bookings and managing your holiday arrangements. You also have your own private accounting page where you can track your travel credits.


* When you qualify and receive your US$3,500 Travel Certificate, Clubfreedom will transfer US$3,500 to your RCI trust account. This is then converted to 3500 travel credits which you can draw down from, as and when needed.

For example:
You may want to take a flight from city to city or country to country or a vacation on a cruise ship, all you have to do is contact RCI friendly staff via a toll free number or from your Clubfreedom travel members area online to book your trip and the cost is debited from your credits.


* A choice of three Travel Vouchers valued at AU$599, AU$699, and AU$899

This is all you pay, which entitles you and your family or friends to a 7 day stay at any one of over 3,500 RCI resorts around the globe, this alone represents a discount saving of between $200 and $2000!

Wow what a saving. . . imagine, some of these resorts would cost you up to $400 a day normally!


For those of you who have NOT heard of RCI you can get the details here



www.wyndhamworldwide.com/about/rci_global_vacation_network.cfm (http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/about/rci_global_vacation_network.cfm)


For those people who would like further information on Club Freedom please click here



splash.clubfreedom.biz/cf.cgi/IHS01/sp1.html (http://splash.clubfreedom.biz/cf.cgi/IHS01/sp1.html)


You never know - that extra holiday to LOS next year might just be achievable

[Bob]

It's not my role or desire to play watchdog on this topic but the Club Freedom idea sounded a little fishy to me and, hence, the above comments I made.
For the hell of it, I googled "Club Freedom travel" and here was a posting (the first link) that really captures what I was trying to say:

www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=44769 (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=44769)

That writer's conclusion? Quoting the last paragraph:
"What's the bottom line? if you join this scam, you alone need to recruit 16 people to join behind you. On top of that, the other people on the boards need to fullfill their obligation too! This is an outright scam and should be reported to the authorities as such!!!!!!"

[bao-bao]

Anyone?

If you'd really consider entering into this scheme, please reconsider and send ME the money instead?

My water buffalo died, my Mom is very ill and needs medicine, my Uncle needs an operation or he will die soon and I'm stuck here in Bangkok with no money for my room.

How much do I need? Up to you :clown:

Dear Buddha... please give these people wisdom and let this thread wither and die.

And for a balanced report here is the SECOND posting when you google Club Freedom

www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=97286 (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=97286)

Interesting that Bao-Bao and Bob are accusing RCI - probably the largest travel provider in the world of perpetuating and participating in a scam

Obviously not for them

[bao-bao]

And for a balanced report here is the SECOND posting when you google Club Freedom

www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=97286 (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?showtopic=97286)

Interesting that Bao-Bao and Bob are accusing RCI - probably the largest travel provider in the world of perpetuating and participating in a scam

Obviously not for them

Nope, not for me. I did consider AmWay when I was younger, but at least THAT gave product for monies collected.

1) I never called it a scam. I said ponzi or pyramid, and I stand by that, and believe what you will

2) If you read that first post on the thread you referenced - it's a promo from someone fishing for people to join HIS team - HA! If you'd like, I could post the link to the "The Earth is Flat" society, too.

3) Now my brother's been in a motor scooter accident also! Please can you help?

Please, dear Buddha... let this thread wither and die after THIS...

Full Federal Court clarifies elements of a pyramid schemeтАФAustralian Communications Network Pty Ltd v Australian Competition and Consumer Commission [2005] FCAFC 221

Summary

The Full Federal Court (comprising of Justices Heerey, Merkel and Siopis) recently unanimously upheld an appeal from Australian Communications Network (ACN) in relation to an earlier finding that ACN had participated in a pyramid selling scheme in contravention of section 65AAC(1) of the TPA.2 In doing so, the Full Court confirmed that the TPA provisions prohibiting pyramid schemes would not cover multi-level marketing schemes that offered rewards to participants based on genuine sales of goods or services, as distinct from those that offered rewards substantially as an attempt to gain new participants to the pyramid scheme.

Finding the correct definition of a pyramid scheme

Much of the debate in the Full Court centred on the correct interpretation of section 65AAD(1). This section defines a pyramid selling scheme as a scheme which requires that new entrants make 'participation payments' to other participants upon entering the scheme, and that 'the participation payments are entirely or substantially induced by the prospect held out to new participants that they will be entitled to a payment (a "recruitment payment") in relation to the introduction to the scheme of further payments'.

In the original decision of the Federal Court, Justice Selway had found that a тАШrecruitment paymentтАЩ to a new participant could cover any benefit received in consequence of the introduction of further new participants, even if such benefits were paid as a result of the subsequent activities of these new participants rather than specifically for their introduction. Thus, in this case, while participants in the ACN scheme only received bonuses when their recruited participants introduced new customers to the business, this was held as irrelevant, given that the benefit obtained was still a consequence of the recruitment of new participants.

However, the Full Court objected to this reasoning, and held that the ACN scheme was not a pyramid selling scheme. To attract liability under section 65AAD(1), there must be a 'relevant, sufficient or material connection or relationship' between the recruitment payment and the introduction of further participants to the scheme, rather than a mere causal connection. This conclusion was strengthened by various journal articles from the United States and Australia, which highlighted that true pyramid schemes attempt to generate the majority of their income from recruitment rather than the selling of products, and that the law does not object to multi-level selling where its main purpose is to sell products to consumers without deception of those recruited under the scheme.

Indeed, even former ACCC Chairman Allan Fels had noted a difference in 2002 between 'acceptable' marketing schemes that rewarded their participants for the sale of genuine products, and schemes that rewarded participants for recruitment of new participants. Thus, in this case, as the recruitment payments given to participants in the ACN scheme were contingent on both the recruitment of new participants and the ability of these new participants to sell ACNтАЩs genuine and commercially competitive services to new customers, no pyramid scheme had been established.

Implications of the case

The Full CourtтАЩs decision is likely to come as a relief to businesses engaging in multilevel marketing schemes, who would have been concerned at the possible implications of Justice SelwayтАЩs wider test of causal connection. The recent decision has thus clarified and limited the scope of section 65AAD(1).

The ACCC has said that it is considering the judgment to decide if an application for special leave to appeal to the High Court is appropriate. At this time of writing no special leave application has been filed.



So exactly what are the "commercially competitive services to new customers" that Club Freedom offers?

Redeemable Travel Certificates underwritten by the one of the worlds largest Travel Agencies (RCI) and providers of Time Share accomodation

And what about the Recruitment Payments?

These are given to participants and are contingent on both the recruitment of new participants AND the ability of these new participants to sell Club Freedom's genuine and commercially competitive services to new customers.

As such no pyramid scheme (or Ponzi) can be established.

Interesting also to see the first Club Freedom commercial on Foxtel Cable TV last nite

Over to you Bao-Bao and Bob

Find out more about Club Freedom here


splash.clubfreedom.biz/cf.cgi/IHS01/sp1.html (http://splash.clubfreedom.biz/cf.cgi/IHS01/sp1.html)

[Bob]

Reciting the above post doesn't really help your cause. Amway is technically legal in the US but it's still a pyramid scheme that
relies on somebody recruiting a lot of people below them to make any true money.
My main beef with Amway is the lack of reasonable disclosure about the percentage of recruits that ever make any money. It's less than 15%. Of course, they don't tell anybody that because then they wouldn't join!

Regardless, I don't wish you anything but happiness and untold millions in value from your participation with them. You will not, however, recruit this old boy.

I'm done flogging this topic, the horse isn't even quivering....

Over to you, Bao Bao! :idea:

[Dboy]

Bob - obviously you have not understood what I said above

I paid $150.00 and immediately received a travel voucher to the value of $150.00 which can be redeemed anytime in the next 24 months. I am not out of pocket anything (well a $15 admin fee if you want to count that - I put that down as Club Membership fees)

Hey, thanks for the link. I suspect your website won't be up much longer. It's amazing how quickly you can shutdown online fraud sites now.

Dboy

[bao-bao]

I guess it's no secret who jojopreppy is, though, if that's his name at the end of the link.

I also wish him well, but hope nobody who really needs the money is taken in unless they plan to corral a bunch of others into the same "plan."

Ick. I feel like I ought to go shower after just talking about it.

[cottmann]

...RCI - probably the largest travel provider in the world of perpetuating and participating in a scam...

I doubt that RCI is the world's largest travel provider though it does claim to be the world's leading timeshare exchange organization. There is a hotel in Bangkok - on Sukhumwit Soi 23 - that operates a high-pressure sales program on behalf of this timeshare organization - join now, pay now, no cooling off period.

There is an interesting post at http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showt ... hp?p=44769 (http://www.matrixwatch.org/forums/showthread.php?p=44769) on Clubfreedom as a scam.

Consumer Affairs Alert at http://www.consumeraffairs.com/mailpage ... l/rci.html (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/mailpage/emailme.php?url=/travel/rci.html) has some interesting complaints about RCI too.

[bao-bao]

...RCI - probably the largest travel provider in the world of perpetuating and participating in a scam...

I doubt that RCI is the world's largest travel provider though it does claim to be the world's leading timeshare exchange organization. There is a hotel in Bangkok - on Sukhumwit Soi 23 - that operates a high-pressure sales program on behalf of this timeshare organization - join now, pay now, no cooling off period.

A little disturbing if true, but it certainly fits in with the rest of the plaid jacket/striped trousers outfit.

Again, ick.

I doubt that RCI is the world's largest travel provider though it does claim to be the world's leading timeshare exchange organization.


www.rciap.com/rci_index.asp?sURL=http://www.rciap.com/asp/travel/travel.asp (http://www.rciap.com/rci_index.asp?sURL=http://www.rciap.com/asp/travel/travel.asp)

RCI Facts

* RCI is a subsidiary of Cendant Corp. (NYSE:CD), a global provider of consumer and business services.
* In 2000, RCI reported $433 million in revenues.
* RCI invented vacation exchange, introducing the concept in 1974.
* RCI has more than 3,700 affiliated resorts in more than 100 countries.
* RCI has more than 2.8 million members living in more than 200 countries.
* Seven of every ten resorts worldwide affiliate with RCI.
* Eight of every 10 exchanges worldwide are made by RCI.
* Seven of the top 10 timeshare developers (in sales) in the world have chosen RCI as their exchange partner.
* Since incorporating in 1974, RCI has arranged exchange vacations for more than 54 million people worldwide.

Who we are and what we do

Resort Condominiums International, LLC (RCI) is the world's leading global provider of products and services to the timeshare industry, with more than 3,700 affiliated resorts in 100 countries. In pursuit of its mission to be the market maker in global travel and leisure, RCI offers the world's leading timeshare exchange services through RCI Points, the first worldwide points-based exchange system, and RCI Weeks, RCI's traditional week-for-week exchange system. Last year, more than 2 million exchanges were confirmed through RCI, sending an estimated 7.5 million people on vacation. RCI provides integrated timeshare solutions in addition to exchange through RCI Market Links, including consulting, travel agency and technological support. To learn more, please visit our Web site at RCI.com.

RCI is owned by Cendant Corporation (NYSE: CD), a global provider of business and consumer services.

The RCI Group of Companies

* RCI Resort Management (RCIM) is the largest resort and hospitality management company in the vacation ownership industry, providing resort operations, hospitality and property management services to more than 100 resorts around the world.

6 Sylvan Way
Parsippany, NJ 07054
Phone: (973) 496-9700

* RCI Consulting (RCIC), based in Las Vegas, Nevada, serves the international timeshare industry. It offers comprehensive consulting services and market research to established resort developers, marketers and operators, as well as to prospective industry entrants.

1050 East Flamingo Road, Suite W 356
Las Vegas, NV 89119
Phone: (702) 699-9331
Fax: (702) 699-5772

* Ragatz Associates, Inc., based in Eugene, Oregon, is the research and consulting business unit of RCI. Ragatz Associates serves the international timeshare industry, offering market research, feasibility analysis and comprehensive consulting services to established resort developers, marketers, operators and prospective industry entrants.

767 Williamette Street
Suite 307
Eugene, Oregon 97401
Phone: (541) 686-9335
Fax: (541) 686-8142

Industry Leadership

RCI is dedicated to promoting both the protection of consumer interests and the advancement of the timeshare industry in the United States and abroad. The company supports the regulation of industry practices and works diligently with industry leaders and government regulators to seek legislation that is fair to all those affected by the laws. The company also promotes timeshare education and awareness to consumers, media, industry professionals, legislators and government officials. To advance timesharing as a vital sector of the global travel and tourism industry, RCI works closely with national and international travel and tourism organizations, governmental agencies and industry associations, including the following:

* American Resort Development Association (ARDA)
* American Society of Travel Agents (ASTA)
* American Hotel & Motel Association (AH&MA)
* Organisation for Timeshare in Europe (OTE)
* Urban Land Institute (ULI)
* World Tourism Organization (WTO)
* World Travel and Tourism Council (WTTC)


There are a few people who are making personal judgements on Club Freedom as being a scam - and that is their ill-informed right

However - no Government body ANYWHERE has actually accused CF by name as being Pyramid or Ponzi or scam or whatever else .

And as for Dboy's opinion that the website would soon be taken down for being fraudulent - well it is still up and running


Cottmans comment that :Consumer Affairs Alert at http://www.consumeraffairs.com/mailpage ... l/rci.html (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/mailpage/emailme.php?url=/travel/rci.html) has some interesting complaints about RCI too.

12 disgruntled people out of 2.8 million members over a period of 4 years

Most of the complaints resulted from inflexibilty of travel arrangements by members or mis-interpretations of the membership rules and guidelines as set down in the RCI Prospectus

Can anyone point me to any Government authority that actually names Club Freedom as illegal or demands Club Freedom be disbanded?

[cottmann]

.... Can anyone point me to any Government authority that actually names Club Freedom as illegal or demands Club Freedom be disbanded?

ClubFreedom is a matrix scheme and such schemes have been identified as scams by Stirling Council in Scotland, UK - see http://www.stirling.gov.uk/index/busine ... -scams.htm (http://www.stirling.gov.uk/index/business/tradingstandards/ts-scams.htm). Good enough for me as a "Government authority."

Seems like the Stirling Council in Scotland may in fact be the scam

This is the message I get when I click on your URL


Page not Found
HTTP 404: Not Found

Unfortunately the page you were looking for was not available.

This may be because:
You may have typed the web address incorrectly. Please check the address and spelling, ensuring that it does not contain capital letters or spaces

It is possible that the page you were looking for may have been moved, updated or deleted.

Please try the following options instead:

* Use the Search at the top of the page
* Use A-Z index
* Return to the www.stirling.gov.uk (http://www.stirling.gov.uk) Home Page

If you still encounter problems then please contact us.
Sending log email to Web Team for link validation... OK.

[cottmann]

Seems like the Stirling Council in Scotland may in fact be the scam

This is the message I get when I click on your URL


Page not Found
HTTP 404: Not Found

Unfortunately the page you were looking for was not available.

This may be because:
You may have typed the web address incorrectly. Please check the address and spelling, ensuring that it does not contain capital letters or spaces

It is possible that the page you were looking for may have been moved, updated or deleted.

Please try the following options instead:

* Use the Search at the top of the page
* Use A-Z index
* Return to the www.stirling.gov.uk (http://www.stirling.gov.uk) Home Page

If you still encounter problems then please contact us.
Sending log email to Web Team for link validation... OK.

Go to the search box at the top right hand corner of the page, type in "scam" and read the fourth entry.

Is this what you mean?


5. Matrix Schemes
Websites offering the latest expensive hi-tech gadgets as a 'free gift' in return for buying a low-value product are the subject of an OFT warning to consumers. The 'matrix' schemes, which are being promoted by a growing number of websites, promise people the chance of getting a valuable 'free gift', such as a mobile phone, ipod, or palm pilot, by spending ┬г20 on a low-value product such as a mobile phone signal booster, or a CD ROM containing ring-tones and games.
Consumers who buy the product become members of a waiting list to receive their chosen 'free gift'. The matrix works by sending the person at the top of the list their 'free gift' only after a prescribed number of new recruits has signed up тАУ the prescribed number varies according to the choice of 'free gift' but can be as great as 100. Once the 'free gift' has been sent, the remaining members each move up one place on the waiting list. The person who has moved to the top then has to wait until the prescribed number of new recruits has signed up again in order to receive their 'free gift'. Although it is not compulsory for members to sign up new recruits, they are encouraged to do so in order to move themselves up the waiting list faster. This has led to some members placing misleading adverts on internet auction sites offering the 'opportunity to buy a mobile phone for ┬г20', in order to seek new recruits.

Nothing like CF at all

I looked at the site and found absolutely no reference to Club Freedom at all

Probably in your own mind you think that this is a scam - and that is your right

But the people who have joined CF from this forum will, I am sure, enjoy the success that I have achieved in a short period of time. As I have told some of you in private emails - dont look to making millions - it wont happen - but one cycle in a year is not only possible but inevitable

Just one cycle in a year will help you get back to LOS sooner and in a better class of travel

[bao-bao]

The thread - now beaten beyond all semblance of reason or shame - used the last of its waning energy to lift it's head once again from the bloody mud and trumpet pitifully, pleading with its tormentors to put it out of its misery and allow it to finally die. With a dull, soft thud it dropped back into the muck, closed its eyes and awaited release.

[Bob]

Bao bao, most excellent prose but you waste such find wordplay on the subject. This thread has become hilarious.

Now, I wonder how many of these guys might be interested in joining Amway........if I could recruit a few hundred, I could make enough baht to purchase those black sandals and white socks I've been eyeing at the night market....